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Gains during PCT I dont' get it??

mixedup

mixedup

Well-known member
OK I'm just thinking about this and maybe it's something that people don't want to hear but this board is about discussion etc.
PCT is to get your body's natural test back up to baseline right? So of course your body's test is lower. NOW if you can make gains during PCT when you test is lower than natural it seems logical you should of been making gains when your test levels were natural?

Now don't get me wrong i'm not against anybody's decision and if you went on cycle just because you wanted gains faster than that's great that's your decision.

But almost all the posts i read about reasons for starting a cycle is people are at a sticking point or work out steady and gains have stopped etc. If that is the case before starting cycle wouldn't maintaining the gains on cycle be that much more work during PCT much less making more gains? .

Thoughts?
 
good question. i believe that u see ppl gaining in PCT because when most ppl are researching for a cycle they always here "u have to keep ur cals up in PCT if not HIGHER in PCT"....well ppl do this and tend to eat more in PCT than ON CYCLE....more food = weight/strength gains.

sorry if it doesnt makes sense
 
You have to consider the compound is not totally cleared from the body right after your last dose.

Plus depending on how strong some bind to the androgen receptor or influence changes by other means it can have a lasting effect that continued into PCT.

Just my 2 cents on it.
 
nosnmiveins said:
good question. i believe that u see ppl gaining in PCT because when most ppl are researching for a cycle they always here "u have to keep ur cals up in PCT if not HIGHER in PCT"....well ppl do this and tend to eat more in PCT than ON CYCLE....more food = weight/strength gains.

sorry if it doesnt makes sense
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I thought about that also and was thinking that concept might work if you were cutting. But if your Massing correctly you should already be taken in a ton of calories and I don't think a couple extra hundred calories could replace the effects of say 30mg plex or 500mg a week of test you know?
 
Liftingstud said:
You have to consider the compound is not totally cleared from the body right after your last dose.

Plus depending on how strong some bind to the androgen receptor or influence changes by other means it can have a lasting effect that continued into PCT.

Just my 2 cents on it.
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Great thoughts. and I totally agree. my thoughts were on people who seemed to gain through out PCT since alot of people on this board user designers. and a regualr PCT is 4-6 weeks I believe with the half life of these orals the compound would be clear fairly quickly at least by the 2nd week wouldn't they?
 
mixedup said:
Great thoughts. and I totally agree. my thoughts were on people who seemed to gain through out PCT since alot of people on this board user designers. and a regualr PCT is 4-6 weeks I believe with the half life of these orals the compound would be clear fairly quickly at least by the 2nd week wouldn't they?
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Yes usually but those are the free conc in the blood. If it is bound to the receptor then until it is deplaced back in the blood stream no. I think this is correct thinking, it had been a while since my human physiology classes.

But that being said you should be gaining tons in PCT maybe a couple pounds at most. Diet prob has a bigger effect esp if they slip a bit more and it's not as clean.
 
Two really good posts...Im not sure myself. Ive faced with this same problem right now, I would like to do a cycle, but Ive been sticking to a good clean diet and have made some progress, so do I run the cycle or not?
 
Im trying to get my diet in line for a cut Hdrol/Furaguno cycle...this is my main problem btw
 
Nah i agree with ya mixed up. If you're sufficiently advanced to be using steroids, and you do a bulk cycle and put on say 15 pounds, then while you might have some momentum going into the first and second week of PCT, come week 3 and 4 you should not be making strength gains or mass gains. If you can then power to you, but seriously WTF, do you really need steroids?

Now if you were cutting and then bump your calories up, it makes a lot more sense. But again I'd agree with mixed up, if taking powerful androgens like 30mg of Phera or 500mg of test and build your bodyweight up well past it's normal range and then suddenly cease taking the androgens, eating more food won't be enough replace them.

Kinda like on my last cycle, i ran SD got great gains, switched over to test and got no gains, did what I thought I should do and increased my calories pretty hard... minimal strength gains were heavily outweighed by significant fat gains. Similarly in PCT i've tried so hard to maintain my gains by increasing calories only to find the muscle slipping out from under my feet and being replaced with fat. Pretty piss poor luck maintaining my gains, but i guess in all these instances the gains were from superdrol and it's understandable why the gains would disappear because it's all glycogen and water.
 
Don't get me wrong I totally agree with both of you that way I said a couple pounds like 1 or 2 over week 1 and pushing it if in 2 wk.

Hahaha feel your SD pain man... The glycogen retension is crazy with SD and so fast. First cycle of SD I blew up like 22 lbs but def lots of water and glycogen retension. Kept like 13 after all was said and done with only 4 wk cycle. But was eating lots of clean carbs but man ohh man, sd = carb monster.
 
i'm getting off topic but i don't notice the carb craving effects of Superdrol, i notice the weight gain associated with carbs but that's it. Some people say they get lethargic on SD without carbs. I'm about to find out, i'll be kickstarting T-Roid with 2 weeks of Superdrol on as much of a ketogenic diet as I can pull off. Part of my T3 cut.
 
Well hormones exert long-acting effects by the method of action, so you might see some carry over into weeks 1 and 2. Also depending on your cycle and SERM, it is possible to jumpstart your HPGA within 2 weeks in some cases, so that during weeks 3 and 4, your testosterone levels are already up to a reasonable levels allowing you to continue your gains. 4 weeks isn't a magic number where all of a sudden your testosterone is normal; some people/cycle it is much earlier, and some later. Also depending on the cycle, if it was suppressing your estrogen and you start to get a rise during PCT, then any water accumulation would cause an increase on the scale.
 
UnrealMachine said:
Nah i agree with ya mixed up. If you're sufficiently advanced to be using steroids, and you do a bulk cycle and put on say 15 pounds, then while you might have some momentum going into the first and second week of PCT, come week 3 and 4 you should not be making strength gains or mass gains. If you can then power to you, but seriously WTF, do you really need steroids?

Now if you were cutting and then bump your calories up, it makes a lot more sense. But again I'd agree with mixed up, if taking powerful androgens like 30mg of Phera or 500mg of test and build your bodyweight up well past it's normal range and then suddenly cease taking the androgens, eating more food won't be enough replace them.

Kinda like on my last cycle, i ran SD got great gains, switched over to test and got no gains, did what I thought I should do and increased my calories pretty hard... minimal strength gains were heavily outweighed by significant fat gains. Similarly in PCT i've tried so hard to maintain my gains by increasing calories only to find the muscle slipping out from under my feet and being replaced with fat. Pretty piss poor luck maintaining my gains, but i guess in all these instances the gains were from superdrol and it's understandable why the gains would disappear because it's all glycogen and water.
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I agree with the above post, either newbie gains where person probably hadnt hit the wall yet, or fat gains. Diet is a big key to success, but calories are preached here a little too much, and there is more to diet than total calories. There is a point of diminishing returns, and too many people judge cycle success by weight gain on scale, not how they look, or strength gain relative to scale weight gain. In general, if you are putting on weight and not getting stronger you are putting on the wrong weight, and if you are putting on weight and you are not looking more athletic, but less, again wrong type of weight. For the average gym user/lifter, if you look worse during your cycle than you did before, dont kid yourself, fat is fat. Again, these are general comments, not specific, but I know that they have at one time or another applied to me specifically.
 
I think that the steroids are used to get you over your hump, or over that plateau, once you have gained more muscle and gotten stronger who is to say that you can't keep gaining even into PCT. Just because you werent' gaining before doesn't mean you can't ever gain again - your body gets kickstarted into building and once your test levels get back to normal, or maybe not even to normal- your muscles can still respond and keep growing even without the anabolics. Just a thought :)
 
Im guessing the reason some people still gain is pct is because they are not completely shut down and still have low test along with excess calories.
 
Too many people use the 4 week pct and their weight maintained after that as a measuring stick for a successful cycle. Most people lose their gains over the next month or 2 after pct. If we did not, we would only need about 3 or 4 good cycles in our life and most would be satisfied. But since most gains are lost that is why people cycle over and over. All you have to do is look at a retired bodybuilder, they shrink up once they call it quits. So if you are still making gains naturally, keep it going.
 
Since only newbs claim to keep making gains during PCT, we have to assume that they finally just started learning how to eat and train right at the end of their cycle, and that they weren't too suppressed from the weak compound they ran.
 
UnrealMachine said:
Nah i agree with ya mixed up. If you're sufficiently advanced to be using steroids, and you do a bulk cycle and put on say 15 pounds, then while you might have some momentum going into the first and second week of PCT, come week 3 and 4 you should not be making strength gains or mass gains. If you can then power to you, but seriously WTF, do you really need steroids?

Now if you were cutting and then bump your calories up, it makes a lot more sense. But again I'd agree with mixed up, if taking powerful androgens like 30mg of Phera or 500mg of test and build your bodyweight up well past it's normal range and then suddenly cease taking the androgens, eating more food won't be enough replace them.

Kinda like on my last cycle, i ran SD got great gains, switched over to test and got no gains, did what I thought I should do and increased my calories pretty hard... minimal strength gains were heavily outweighed by significant fat gains. Similarly in PCT i've tried so hard to maintain my gains by increasing calories only to find the muscle slipping out from under my feet and being replaced with fat. Pretty piss poor luck maintaining my gains, but i guess in all these instances the gains were from superdrol and it's understandable why the gains would disappear because it's all glycogen and water.
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so are you saying that only if you run a really hard compound like Test or Phera then this is when you need excess calories?

I agree in a way, Ive ran Hdrol two times, the first I didnt really know what I was doing and made a ton of gains during the cycle, lost about 3-5 pounds in PCT, the second I did what I read and everyone told me, to eat alot of calories, and gained a ton of fat...
 
When in a caloric surplus, even clean foods, your body is going to use some to repair and others for fat storage, unless you are blessed genetically.
 
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