GABA-ergic anxiety
- Thread starter B5150
- Start date
mr.cooper69
Legend
Many polyps are technically pre-cancerous, but colon cancer is super slow. Progression to carcinoma takes well over a decade. People who keep up with their scopes rarely if ever get colon cancer. Again, it's less of an issue than it was in the past. Even if polyps show up on your next scope, still no need to worry
The check engine light comes on one more time I may have a meltdown...
Vigilance for your health is....healthy. Worrying isn't!
Aleksandar37
Well-known member
Have you ever looked into getting a prescription for propranolol? It can be taken as those situations occur or daily.
Spaniard
Well-known member
Have you tried picamilon?
I've noticed that when people opt for either beta or alpha blockers for acute anxiety it can sometimes make the anxiety worse. The physical symptoms diminish but the anxiety is still present.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Picamilon wakes me up in the middle of the night something horrible. Like rebound insomnia.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
I've been using theanine at 200mg to 600mg daily for a few years without tolerance developing. I love it. I've even used it up to a gram at a time just a couple of times to counteract excessive caffeine stimulation.
Aleksandar37
Well-known member
Yeah, I should clarify. It's not a cure, but it is a way to deal with that flight or fight response when it occurs. You still need to address the underlying issue, but that really goes for any pharmaceutical treatment of anxiety.
B5150
Legend
my GP is all I've seen and she gets uptight when I propose meds.
no not yet
My old faithful cup or to many has become and detriment to my sense of wellbeing. Heart pounds and that sets of the cycle.
Thanks a lot for all your feedback and support!
B5150
Legend
Thanks for this as I have had many colonoscopies starting as far back as early thirties. im confident it will not get me
B5150
Legend
Thanks for this as I have had many colonoscopies starting as far back as early thirties. im confident it will not get me
Aleksandar37
Well-known member
I have gotten a prescription for it from my GP. I only suggested it because it will help with the racing heart that can trigger a panic attack, or at least it has helped myself.
Spaniard
Well-known member
I wouldn't use picamilon as a sleep aid personally anyways
Yeah dude, anxiety is a real bitch
kisaj
Legend
So does it slow your heart rate down? Seems most people tend to get anxiety from the anticipation of an event and then the heart goes. I'm curious how stopping a racing heart helps out.
Spaniard
Well-known member
It allows someone to calm themselves easier by diminishing the fight or flight response
Aleksandar37
Well-known member
It's a beta blocker, so it blocks epinephrine and norepinephrine at beta 1 and 2 andrenergic receptors. It's indicated for hypertension, angina, and tremors, but people often take it for stage fright. So anxiety might typically get your heart racing, but by helping keep it at a calm, normal pace, you're not going to focus on it and make yourself more anxious. It helps break that cycle.
mr.cooper69
Legend
Yep, but it's also more than this. Selective b1 blockers like metoprolol DO NOT help anxiety and they are even more effective for lowering heart rate. The true reason propanolol works so well is actually because it is non-selective, and b2 receptors in the brain have a net anxiety-promoting effect. Indeed, brain levels of monoamines in people with anxiety have been measured, and such people have excessive release of NE from the locus ceruleus. By blocking some of these effects centrally, propanolol can reduce anxiety in a mental fashion as well.
mr.cooper69
Legend
CSF sampling, PET/fMRI. Not easily done at all and reserved mostly for research, but we will occasionally use it to diagnose extreme cases of narcolepsy by measuring orexin levels
redman24
Banned
can you only measure amounts or also Location, as in which receptor type it has bound to? i would guess not, because that could lead to such extreme advancement in Treatment, actually knowing, lets say, which dopamine receptor is the main Problem in a specific patients case and then finding a way to specifically block that exact receptor. that way one would really know what they are targetting for example in case of a psychosis instead of simply blocking a bunch of different Transmitters and receptor types, of which some may actually be beneficial.
what does csf mean? the other two are scans i assume (not my first language), but can one actually recognize neurotransmitters on Imaging? that's why i am curious what the csf sampling is.
what does csf mean? the other two are scans i assume (not my first language), but can one actually recognize neurotransmitters on Imaging? that's why i am curious what the csf sampling is.
redman24
Banned
my neurologist who is also doing Research predicts some Major advances in 10-20 years, so maybe then one can actually find out what exactly id going on in the brain metabolically. with other organs it is so much easier, but with the brain ever case is different but nearly every psychiatrist has his set of meds he prescribes, while not knowing really, wether the Patient will respond to it or not or even make it worse.
it would also really help the Stigma associated with mental illness if the public realized, that those conditions are disturbances in neurochemistry and one is not "crazy" but actually has an illness of a organ like other People who are hypothyroid or Insulin resistent. only those are easily diagnosed while the brain is so incredibly complex...
it would also really help the Stigma associated with mental illness if the public realized, that those conditions are disturbances in neurochemistry and one is not "crazy" but actually has an illness of a organ like other People who are hypothyroid or Insulin resistent. only those are easily diagnosed while the brain is so incredibly complex...
Aleksandar37
Well-known member
CSF is cerebrospinal fluid and physicians can perform a lumbar puncture to get a sample for testing. As for your other question, that's way more advanced than what you're going to get in a visit to your doctor's office. Some fMRI techniques can follow neurotransmitters, but this is mostly used in the research world still.
redman24
Banned
is the Technology too expensive or not accurate enough yet? if one could determine not only concentrations of neurotransmitters but also their specific binding behaviour to their respective receptors, that would lead to an incredible advance in Terms of how to decide which medication to prescribe instead of just guessing and hoping that if we try to cover lots of, for example, Serotonin receptors, we may get the right one. (which of course neglects the Problem of the ones that may cause the Patient issues)
because just because someone has a Serotonin or Dopamine or noradrenaline or Endorphin deficiency, doesn't mean he requires the same med as someone who is also deficient in one of those. then even when it is almsot certain that Serotonin is the culprit, People fo through 5 different ssris and None of them actually Ends up being helpful or has too many sides etc. not to mention the possible other subtle imbalances that are very hard to Diagnose by looking at someone and asking them how they feel...
strangely i found that Opioids have the broadest spectrum of positive effects on mental Problems, maybe because they affect other neurotransmitters along with them and Balance out any potential negative effects due to their euphoria, but this is pure speculation.
because just because someone has a Serotonin or Dopamine or noradrenaline or Endorphin deficiency, doesn't mean he requires the same med as someone who is also deficient in one of those. then even when it is almsot certain that Serotonin is the culprit, People fo through 5 different ssris and None of them actually Ends up being helpful or has too many sides etc. not to mention the possible other subtle imbalances that are very hard to Diagnose by looking at someone and asking them how they feel...
strangely i found that Opioids have the broadest spectrum of positive effects on mental Problems, maybe because they affect other neurotransmitters along with them and Balance out any potential negative effects due to their euphoria, but this is pure speculation.
B5150
Legend
although anecdotally they may relieve symptoms short term the long term issues regarding tolerance, dependence and withdrawal far out way the short term benefit IMHO
Aleksandar37
Well-known member
Well it's not entirely guessing
To be as comprehensive though as you seem to be thinking would probably require postmortem testing. In a perfect world, we would run full genetic analysis on everybody before prescribing anything or even taking otc medications, but that isn't feasible given the cost and time it would require.As for opioids for mental conditions, we're going to have to agree to disagree on that.
redman24
Banned
my dr. told me the genetic testing is a subject that many People are against and that is why Research in this field is being limited from what it could be.somehow they are afraid of the subject, Kind of like: "leave my genes alone" he thinks it is silly and says it would really help knowing what to prescribe, not to mention other fields off medicine where one would probably know well in advance what somebody is predisposed of or not. but neurochemistry is the only Thing i have some knowledge about so i will not try to speculate on that.
as for the Opioids, in the short term, they can save lives. of course you can't take them for life, but i have seen psychosis and suicidality end within minutes after Administration of oxycodone, i think the only other Thing that is capable of that would be narcosis.
as for the Opioids, in the short term, they can save lives. of course you can't take them for life, but i have seen psychosis and suicidality end within minutes after Administration of oxycodone, i think the only other Thing that is capable of that would be narcosis.
mr.cooper69
Legend
You haven't worked in many hospitals then. 1st line is a combination of ativan, benadryl, and haldol, and it is virtually foolproof for stopping psychosis or suicidality. And most of the patients who are suicidal on our wards ARE on opiates for pain control anyway. Opiates are a poor choice for psychosis bro (don't cite the best doctor in germany to oppose this point please, use actual evidence)
redman24
Banned
haloperidol doesn't stop psychosis necessarily, i have seen guys walk with their bed they were tied to on their backs around the room they were locked in while they still had the strength. later they would be unable to walk. certainly incapable of comitting suicide and i never said that my dr. prescribes Opioids in cases of acute suicidality, just that he agrees they are underused in psychiatry and other medications are overused.
he Comes from a time where they actually injected themselves with haloperidol to see what it is like so they would know what they give to their Patient.
ativan from what i witnessed has an incredible Long time to actually take effect and despite being the Standard Benzodiazepine takes much more than the usually prescribed dosages. and i do realize it has a short half-life. yet diazepam works faster and i have witnessed cases where 5mg of subingual lorazepam would do barely anythign while 20mg diazepam worked much better.
and i don't speak from working in hospitals but from direct experience of friends, People they met in the Hospital and my own experiements with These substances. i Need at least 5 mg lorazepam to feel anything and can easily take ten. also 8mg clonazepam, not much happens. 20mg diazepam seems mot reliable, it always works and works the same, instead of sometimes knocking you out and sometimes doing nothing for hours.
so why are your patients on opiates? do you get mostly suicidal cancer patients? it is not like People with a neurochemical disorder have chronic pain as well most of the time. and opiates implies morphine basically. why not Opioids? why no oxycodone?
well maybe i am a weird case. 300mg of oral morphine doesn't even touch a toothache for me.
the rest i wrote i have seen and experienced in actuality though.
you are a medical Student right, not a psychiatrist? or an assistant dr.? what field do you or will you specialize in?
he Comes from a time where they actually injected themselves with haloperidol to see what it is like so they would know what they give to their Patient.
ativan from what i witnessed has an incredible Long time to actually take effect and despite being the Standard Benzodiazepine takes much more than the usually prescribed dosages. and i do realize it has a short half-life. yet diazepam works faster and i have witnessed cases where 5mg of subingual lorazepam would do barely anythign while 20mg diazepam worked much better.
and i don't speak from working in hospitals but from direct experience of friends, People they met in the Hospital and my own experiements with These substances. i Need at least 5 mg lorazepam to feel anything and can easily take ten. also 8mg clonazepam, not much happens. 20mg diazepam seems mot reliable, it always works and works the same, instead of sometimes knocking you out and sometimes doing nothing for hours.
so why are your patients on opiates? do you get mostly suicidal cancer patients? it is not like People with a neurochemical disorder have chronic pain as well most of the time. and opiates implies morphine basically. why not Opioids? why no oxycodone?
well maybe i am a weird case. 300mg of oral morphine doesn't even touch a toothache for me.
the rest i wrote i have seen and experienced in actuality though.
you are a medical Student right, not a psychiatrist? or an assistant dr.? what field do you or will you specialize in?
mr.cooper69
Legend
Oh christ, I'm not going to make things personal. All I'm saying is that the anecdote of a few doesn't trump science that is determined by the many (usually trials and meta-analyses of 10,000+ people).
Driven2lift
Legend
For what is worth, my mother works in the psych hospital here and agreed with Coop's initial comment when I texted her
Aleksandar37
Well-known member
Even if opioids have some anti-psychotic effects, they have the potential to induce their own psychosis and are simply a horrible option to put in the hands of somebody that is suicidal.
Spaniard
Well-known member
Unless!!! They're suicidal due to the horrible withdrawals that come with longterm opioid use
Aleksandar37
Well-known member
lol. Opioid dependence and suicidal? Better have the naloxone ready to go!
redman24
Banned
some are of the opinion that patients should be treated individually and not due to statistics. what i have seen in mental hospitals is that they have a General Approach (depending on which Hospital and which Station, be it personality disorder or psychosis) that they give to everyone. one Hospital likes to give everyone escitalopram, others like to give everyone another ssri and so on. some give everyone quetiapine while others give everyone olanzapine. probably depends on who gave them the most free pencils...
but everyone is different an in Germany patients are mostly medicated and not asked about their own opinion of how the medication affcts them and wether they would like to feel different. actually they are not asked how they wanna feel at all.
if a Patient of my dr. Needs to be admitted he will even get up at night, come to the Hospital and explain how this particular Patient Needs to be treated. and he works 15 hours a day despite being retired. you can call him anytime you Need him. i trust him more than somebody who thinks he knows what i Need because studies in his opinion can prove what is going on with me.
also 2 clinics have missed psychosis in one case and falsely diagnosed as borderline personality disorder, as they would not listen and were incapable of telling that what they thought was Aggression was in actuality fear and Paranoia. one even said the Patient is exxagerating and one said the Patient doesn't Need meds but therapy. in actuality the Patient has endogenous psychosis. the only difference is that it is not obvious if you expect someone to talk incoherent nonsense the whole time. if one knew the comparison though, one could see the onset within days.
but everyone is different an in Germany patients are mostly medicated and not asked about their own opinion of how the medication affcts them and wether they would like to feel different. actually they are not asked how they wanna feel at all.
if a Patient of my dr. Needs to be admitted he will even get up at night, come to the Hospital and explain how this particular Patient Needs to be treated. and he works 15 hours a day despite being retired. you can call him anytime you Need him. i trust him more than somebody who thinks he knows what i Need because studies in his opinion can prove what is going on with me.
also 2 clinics have missed psychosis in one case and falsely diagnosed as borderline personality disorder, as they would not listen and were incapable of telling that what they thought was Aggression was in actuality fear and Paranoia. one even said the Patient is exxagerating and one said the Patient doesn't Need meds but therapy. in actuality the Patient has endogenous psychosis. the only difference is that it is not obvious if you expect someone to talk incoherent nonsense the whole time. if one knew the comparison though, one could see the onset within days.
redman24
Banned
the Problem is that most dr.s will not listen to the relatives or People who live with them, while those are the most important People in the whole Treatment approch. because only someone who knows the baseline can actually explain what has changed and also what has worked in the past or not.
if i told you the Patient has sever anxiety but does not respond to lorazepam unless at 10mg and it takes 2 hours but she rsponds to 25mg diazepam within 20 min., would you still give her lorazepam? i think you would tell me that you are the dr. and kick me out of the place, unless People do differently in the US.
oh btw. nurses etc. spread confidential Information around too, does this happen as well in US hospitals? do patients with an 8 year "career" of mental illness normally come in with 6 different diagnoses?
if i told you the Patient has sever anxiety but does not respond to lorazepam unless at 10mg and it takes 2 hours but she rsponds to 25mg diazepam within 20 min., would you still give her lorazepam? i think you would tell me that you are the dr. and kick me out of the place, unless People do differently in the US.
oh btw. nurses etc. spread confidential Information around too, does this happen as well in US hospitals? do patients with an 8 year "career" of mental illness normally come in with 6 different diagnoses?