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Fruit Juice PWO

chainsaw

Well-known member
Would Fruit Juice like Juicy Juice make a good substitute PWO for Maltodextrin/dextrose? I have an over abundance of juice and we really don't drink it all the time.
 
Fructose in fruit juice doesn't illicit an insulin response that your aiming for with malodextrin/dextrin. I wouldn't do it.
 
Cosign with Thomas, I wouldn't use any fruit or anything with fructose/ HFCS PWO. In addition to not causing an insulin response it will have the opposite effect. Fructose stops the digestion of all other things until it is digested, which is not what you want PWO you want the fastest digestion possible of course.
 
I like to have all my fructose at one meal in the day so that my absorbtion of other meals isn't exhibited. Have a cup of juice or two in your second meal or something like that.

I bought Nerds today until my dextrose come in the mail that's an option too.
 
fructose requires an enzyme to break it down into glycogen. only the liver has that enzyme, so unless I'm completely mistaken, pure fructose will not replenish your muscle glycogen. Instead, it will be passed to the liver for processing, then it will continue to stock up glycogen in the liver until it is full (some say around 150 grams of carbs can be stored in the average liver), the rest immediately go to fat. That's one of the reasons why high fructose corn syrup gets such a bad wrap.. it doesn't exhibit an insulin response because it doesn't raise the blood sugar, so it has a different pathway that may not make you feel like you've eaten (no sugar rise and fall) so you can potentially continue eating.

but that's PURE fructose. Fruits are not pure fructose, I believe something like a banana is around half fructose and the other half is i think glucose. either way, whatever it is, the other half does exhibit an insulin response since it can be broken down in the blood stream and sent to muscles or fat.

so yes, fruit juice can be used PWO but definitely far from ideal. You may want to do additional research and found out the fruits that are higher in glucose than in fructose, I believe cantaloupe is one of the few.

when I do fructose it's in the morning, because getting your liver stocked up is a signal to stop catabolism. Post workout, I'll have a little two. In other words, those are the only times I feel like liver is potentially glycogen starved.
 
pinchharmonic said:
fructose requires an enzyme to break it down into glycogen. only the liver has that enzyme, so unless I'm completely mistaken, pure fructose will not replenish your muscle glycogen. Instead, it will be passed to the liver for processing, then it will continue to stock up glycogen in the liver until it is full (some say around 150 grams of carbs can be stored in the average liver), the rest immediately go to fat. That's one of the reasons why high fructose corn syrup gets such a bad wrap.. it doesn't exhibit an insulin response because it doesn't raise the blood sugar, so it has a different pathway that may not make you feel like you've eaten (no sugar rise and fall) so you can potentially continue eating.

but that's PURE fructose. Fruits are not pure fructose, I believe something like a banana is around half fructose and the other half is i think glucose. either way, whatever it is, the other half does exhibit an insulin response since it can be broken down in the blood stream and sent to muscles or fat.

so yes, fruit juice can be used PWO but definitely far from ideal. You may want to do additional research and found out the fruits that are higher in glucose than in fructose, I believe cantaloupe is one of the few.

when I do fructose it's in the morning, because getting your liver stocked up is a signal to stop catabolism. Post workout, I'll have a little two. In other words, those are the only times I feel like liver is potentially glycogen starved.
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Fructokinase, your right, only liver has it. The reason im opposed to using it PWO is because of the fact that it will fill up the liver with glycogen instead of the muscles. It's a wasted opportunity to put more back into your muscles.
 
^ Not only that, but very little glucose is produced like this process which will really do hardly any good PWO. All the reasons not to have fructose PWO would include; not causing an insulin spike thusly not getting protein and carbs to your muscles, acually slowing the digestion of the protein and other carbs you do eat and the excess is turned to fat.

I'm not sure there's any good reason to use fructose containing foods over dextrose containing foods or some other fast digesting carb. White rice, dextrose, maltodextrin, potatoes, white bread (although this does content HFCS which isn't ideal either but will raise blood sugar levels to create an insulin like happening).
 
Fruit juice will not be made up of entirely fructose.. There's good amounts of glucose in there. Like someone else mentioned.. it's not ideal but it will work. Way better then nothing! Dextrose or waxy maize would be ideal.
 
chainsaw said:
Would Fruit Juice like Juicy Juice make a good substitute PWO for Maltodextrin/dextrose? I have an over abundance of juice and we really don't drink it all the time.
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Fructose goes to the liver and makes you fat, not to the muscles, raising insulin and building muscles. I would cut out all fructose. There's a link on the UT Southwestern Site (which I can't post because I have <50 posts) which talks about it.

You'll want to google "Texas Fructose" and it'll pop right up.
 
You could try grape juice. I believe it has a higher concentration of glucose than other juices.

At least that is what they used to say when they recommended you mix your creatine in it. Never really checked into it though.
 
Bottom line: If nothing else is available have fruit juice but if anything else is that's nothing any percent fructose have that instead.
 
chainsaw said:
Would Fruit Juice like Juicy Juice make a good substitute PWO for Maltodextrin/dextrose? I have an over abundance of juice and we really don't drink it all the time.
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Poliquin recommends a mix of 40% high glycemic fruit juice, such as pineapple or grape and the rest from malto or dextrose. I've been doing the grape and I enjoy getting that in after I lift, hope that helps.
 
Photofructokinase (PFK-1) signals liver glycogen capacity; another important enzyme.

Right, so fruit concentrates aren't 100% fructose, but that doesn't bide sucrose, which is 50-50 glucose/fructose. Sure it can be used as a last resort, but nothing more.

I forget the numbers, but X amount of fructose delays nutrient metabolism by X amount of time. You have an approximate 75-100g of fructolysis in the liver, the rest is converted to triglycerides.

PowerlifterMB said:
I bought Nerds today until my dextrose come in the mail that's an option too.
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Copy-cat, lol. I use airheads and nerds when in vain.
 
Article From AST

The Difference Between Glucose vs. Grape Juice

Yes I have. And the conclusion is that it works pretty good. My initial blood glucose reading was 81mg/dL. I mixed 2 scoops of VP2 Whey Isolate into 8 ounces of grape juice (from concentrate). I drank it down and let the sugars go to work. 30 minutes later I had a blood glucose level of 123 mg/dL. That's an increase of 42 mg/dL. Not too bad.

I did another test later. This time I used 10 ounces of grape juice with 2 scoops of VP2. I thought for sure this would give me a higher blood glucose elevation. My initial reading was 84mg/dL. 30 minutes after the 10 ounce grape juice/VP2 mixture I had a blood glucose reading of 126mg/dL. Again a 42mg/dL. increase. Even with 10 grams more sugar from the 2 extra ounce of grape juice.

If you remember the Creatine HSC/VP2 Whey Isolate/skim milk increased my blood glucose between 58 and 60 mg/dL. The highest I have found so far. The grape juice was good, but still trailed the Creatine HSC/VP2/skim milk by 16 to 18 mg/dL.

The Creatine HSC/VP2/skim milk combination actually increases blood glucose 42% greater than grape juice even when using more total simple carbs in the grape juice

I have done some calculations. Theoretically, the skim milk with a glycemic index of 28 should lower the very high glycemic index the glucose (100) has in Creatine HSC. My calculations give me an overall glycemic index of 80 for the Creatine HSC/VP2/skim milk combo. I can't find the GI of grape juice listed anywhere. However, a whole grape has a GI of 43 which is not all that great. My calculations for grape juice gives it a GI of around 66.

It looks like the mixture of Creatine HSC/VP2/skim milk will be very tough to beat. Even with slightly less simple carbs this combination far exceeds the blood glucose elevation effects of grape juice. So those of you who have been brainwashed into thinking grape juice is just as good for spiking insulin as a well designed glucose enhance creatine supplement - think again.

Here's a nutritional breakdown on the Creatine HSC/VP2/skim milk combo:

Calories: 416
Protein: 57 grams
Carbs: 47 grams
Fat: 0 grams

This is why I especially like this combination. It supplies a nice serving of protein with a very effective carbohydrate mixture, 5 grams of Micronized Creatine with creatine transporters and it's 42% more effective for increasing important blood glucose concentrations. This is a perfect pre and post workout supplementation technique. As good as grape juice is it's simply not near as good Creatine HSC/VP2/skim milk combination. It's more expensive, it lacks the main nutrient transport components and it just doesn't get the job done as well.
 
What you usually do is go to the website of the people that make the product, and they have the nutritional information there. I use airheads on my carb loads, I'll go through a box or two easilly.
 
ThomasRivera said:
Fructose in fruit juice doesn't illicit an insulin response that your aiming for with malodextrin/dextrin. I wouldn't do it.
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i concur. newer studies have verified this. it doesn't give the response that was once a popular belief. you can try optimum health's glycomaize also. it mixes a little bit better for me.
 
This thread is a trip. Epic bump lol
 
Wow. This is something. On this note how do we feel about KoolAid lol
 
chainsaw said:
Would Fruit Juice like Juicy Juice make a good substitute PWO for Maltodextrin/dextrose? I have an over abundance of juice and we really don't drink it all the time.
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I would say yes you could but would add some dex to it or a banana (glucose), would also add 1-2g taurine, 5g BCAA's or a scoop of fast acting protein and 2-4g creatine into it IMO
 
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