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Fragment & Grunt: The story of a biochemical relationship

Day 8: Rest

CALORIES
Expended: 2,903
Absorbed: 3,766 (38% fat, 23% carbs, 39% protein = 350g) and I could still eat a horse. :blink:

I'll have to be extra-careful with the rest of the week, because I have a cheat meal scheduled for Friday at a gourmet traditional mexican restaurant. I can't imagine the Fragment giving me much fatloss without a calorie deficit... :burger:

This marks my second consecutive day of pinning the 200mcg at bedtime. Tomorrow I'll return to 100mcg preworkout and another shot of 100 at bedtime.

I'll just keep on logging everything like this and give a measurements & mini-recap at day 15 and of course final conclusions on day 30.
 
Re: Day 8: Rest

Have you noticed any difference between dosing it all at bedtime from splitting up the doses? Not sure if you would really be able to tell much, since its still early and you only dosed all at bedtime twice. Just wondering though. Thanks man. :)
 
Re: Day 8: Rest

idunk42 said:
Have you noticed any difference between dosing it all at bedtime from splitting up the doses? Not sure if you would really be able to tell much, since its still early and you only dosed all at bedtime twice. Just wondering though. Thanks man. :)
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Actually, I did. When I dose the whole 200mcg at night, when I wake up the next morning my fatty tissue around my waist is softer... Dunno if that's good or what, but it's a difference.
 
DAY 9 (yesterday): DELTS, TRAPS & CALVES

WORKOUT
Barbell Military Press Smith 155x7, 165x2, 160x3
Close-Grip Upright Rowing 135x8, 165x5, 185x3
Reverse Pec Deck 120x8, 120x7, 110x7 (6s TUT)
DB Side Lateral Raises 20x8, 20x8 (6s TUT)
Barbell Shrug 245x8, 245x6, 225x8 (6s TUT)
Calf Raise 300x18, 300x15 (6s TUT)

Rest 180s between all sets

Workout duration 69 minutes

Bodyweight 229.5 lbs

Aerobics: 30 minutes treadmill @ 15% incline, 3.6 Km/H, good for 380 calories

Other activities: 30 minute bicycle ride

CALORIES
Expended: 3,697
Absorbed: 2,844 (16% fat, 40% carbs, 44% protein = 298g)

OBSERVATIONS
I again forgot to pin the stuff preworkout. I again experienced major lethargy towards the end of my aerobics. This is either to do with the fact that I am dieting, which I am unaccustomed to, or perhaps I have a fungus infection since I have been sick recently from drinking moldy protein. I had pretty severe hypoglycemia, with accompanying CNS irritation, aggressivity, low energy, the works. Either way, it's nothing to do with the Fragment because I had dosed it all at bedtime the night before.

So I dosed it again 200mcg at bedtime of day 9. This morning (day 10) I again woke up with an overfilled bladder. I mean, every time I pin this stuff at bedtime I wake up early with an unreal amount of fluid to get rid of. Oh, and I believe I now have some real evidence that the stuff is working. My left love handle seems a little bit smaller than my right and they both seem less than 9 days ago. I've only been pinning the left side, just to see if any degree of asymetry would develop. I'll keep doing it this way and see.
 
Your gonna end up lopp-sided! Haha.
 
DAY 10 (Yesterday): BACK & BICEPS

WORKOUT
Bent-Over Row 225x8, 245x5, 255x4
Narrow-Grip Chin-Up 229x8, 229x5, 229x4
Wide-Grip pulldown 150x6, 135x7, 120x8 (6s TUT)
Cable Rowing 120x6, 105x8, 105x7 (6s TUT)
Seated alternate DB Curl 60x3, 55x4
Supinated Preacher DB Curl 30x7, 30x6 (6s TUT)

All sets @ 180s rest

Workout Duration 70 minutes

Aerobics: Bicycle ride, 30 minutes.

Bodyweight 229

CALORIES
Expended: 3,347
Absorbed: 3,416 (33% fat, 31% carbs, 36% protein = 313g)

OBSERVATIONS
I again forgot to dose preworkout. Dammit where's my mind? No matter, I'll dose at bedtime again. Also I experienced hypoglycemia today. Nothing much else to report.
 
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Grunt have you given HIIT cardio a try yet? I started it this week, I dont know if I can go back to just straight-up mid-intensity...****'s turning me into a furnace...

BV
 
Re: Day 8: Rest

Grunt76 said:
Actually, I did. When I dose the whole 200mcg at night, when I wake up the next morning my fatty tissue around my waist is softer... Dunno if that's good or what, but it's a difference.
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I noticed this as well. I thought it was all in my head. I only have one vial to experiment with so I'm not expecting too much.

No sides to report at all.
 
BigVrunga said:
Grunt have you given HIIT cardio a try yet? I started it this week, I dont know if I can go back to just straight-up mid-intensity...****'s turning me into a furnace...

BV
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Just watch that it doesn't turn you into a catabolic furnace. I always used to do HIIT, and I always lost a lot of LBM.
 
BigVrunga said:
Grunt have you given HIIT cardio a try yet? I started it this week, I dont know if I can go back to just straight-up mid-intensity...****'s turning me into a furnace...

BV
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I would but I do my aerobics just after weights, so it wouldn't be practical. When you do a separate session, I think HIIT is the best, but not with weights. I am moving on July 1st and I will have access to a high quality rowing machine so who knows, I might even go HIIT on that... :)

Beowulf said:
Just watch that it doesn't turn you into a catabolic furnace. I always used to do HIIT, and I always lost a lot of LBM.
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Yes that is something I need to be very careful about, especially with my last blood tests coming in with low test...

jmh80 said:
I would figure that taking at bedtime would be best to combat the lethargy.
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Well it does seem to help about that, but I get hypoglycemia during the day. I also get mad thirst. I find it worthy of note that my bladder fills so much that I can't sleep all the way through and have to get up to go, and moreover have mad thirst during the day. The fatty tissue softness might be from water retention also... Which makes potentially 3 water-related side-effects of this fragment. They may or may not all be related to the Fragment but it's something to look at. What it means and all that... :think:
 
Day 11 (yesterday): Rest

CALORIES
Expended: 2,537
Absorbed: 2,466 (27% fat, 27% carbs, 46% protein = 277g)

OBSERVATIONS
Thirsty!
 
Grunt76 said:
Well it does seem to help about that, but I get hypoglycemia during the day. I also get mad thirst. I find it worthy of note that my bladder fills so much that I can't sleep all the way through and have to get up to go, and moreover have mad thirst during the day. The fatty tissue softness might be from water retention also... Which makes potentially 3 water-related side-effects of this fragment. They may or may not all be related to the Fragment but it's something to look at. What it means and all that... :think:
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I have exactly the same effects. I feel like I am retaining water, but at the same time I am constantly pissing and I am very thirsty. The hypoglycemia has been very pronounced for me.
 
Day 12 (yesterday): Chest & Triceps

WORKOUT
Incline Bench Press 225x7, 235x4, 245x2
Flat Dumbell Press 105x3, 95x4, 100x4
Incline Dumbell Flye 40x5, 35x6, 30x8 (6s TUT)
Pec Deck 135x8, 135x8, 120x8 (6s TUT)
Close-Grip Bench 165x10, 185x8, 205x5
Skull Crusher 65x6, 60x8 (6s TUT)

Rest between sets= 180s.

Workout duration 70 minutes

Bodyweight 230

Aerobics: 30 minutes treadmill @ 15% incline, 3.6 Km/H, good for 392 calories.

CALORIES
Expended: 3,714
Absorbed: 2,679 (22% fat, 27% carbs, 51% protein = 334g)

OBSERVATIONS
Weight is up! :blink: I'm looking big, feeling pumped, and this isn't supposed to be an effect of this Fragment thing, so I am REALLY puzzled. Maybe my training routine is so good that I'm putting on muscle even on these restricted calories? I'm liking it. I'm not looking cut at all, which is surprising considering the calorie deficit I'm running. In a few days I'll report on my exact average daily calorie deficit and it is significant. So why the weight gain? Must be water. Thirst is still insane, I must have drank 3 gallons of water...
 
Ill tell you bro that TUT training has me pumped up something fierce. After 2 sessions on it, I took a look in the mirror and I was like 'what the?'...especially if this is your first time incorporating it from a standard lifting routine (it is for me) - I'd imagine you'd see impressive results.
 
The current lifting program I am on is also heavily based on TUT principals and let me tell you it is the best lifting program I have done in many years. At least for me. I had never paid much attention to TUT principals since I was always training for explosive power but I have made gains in lbm I never thought possible.

Mr.50
 
The current lifting program I am on is also heavily based on TUT principals and let me tell you it is the best lifting program I have done in many years. At least for me. I had never paid much attention to TUT principals since I was always training for explosive power but I have made gains in lbm I never thought possible.
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+1, just to reinforce the effectiveness - Ive never a workout as effective in the 5 years Ive been seriously training. Ill still switch to strength and power training every so often, but damn TUT is clearly the ticket for me at the moment...
 
I had been doing an all sets of 8 6s reps program before doing this one. The new one is heavy and explosive on compounds and 6s TUT on other moves, split in about 50-50 in terms of sets. My TUT is now 3s eccentric and 3s concentric whereas previously it had been 1s concentric and 5s eccentric. I didn't think chaging my routine this way would be so significant...
 
Day 13: Thighs & Calves

WORKOUT
Leg Press 405x8, 450x6, 405x8 (6s TUT)
Split Squat Smith 85x8, 85x8, 85x6
SLDL Toes Raised 185x8, 195x8, 205x7
Leg Extension 110x8, 110x7 (6s TUT)
Leg Curl 115x4, 100x6 (6s TUT)
Calf Raise 300x18, 300x16 (6s TUT)

Workout duration: 60 minutes

Aerobics: Treadmill walk @ 3.6 Km/H on 15% incline, 30 minutes good for 390 calories
Other aerobics: 30 minute walk, 30 minute bicycle ride

Bodyweight 229

CALORIES
Expended: 3,811
Absorbed: 3,605 (32% fat, 30% carbs, 38% protein = 335g)

OBSERVATIONS
Still super-thirsty but less than yesterday. I feel incredibly bloated. Not sure I am experiencing water retention because I've never experienced it, but all my pants are tight...
 
Day 14 (yesterday): REST

CALORIES
Expended: 2,631
Absorbed: 2,357 (17% fat, 33% carbs, 50% protein = 294g)

OBSERVATIONS
Slight headache for a few minutes on days 14 and 13.

This morning (day15) I see increased definition and vascularity in the upper chest and delts. Good sign. Finally. Will train arms today and of course make my daily report either late tonight or tomorrow morning.
 
Well its good to see you are getting more defined. As for the bloat, if your fitting tighter it might be some water retention, how many times are you urinating? (sorry personal) but if you are not excreting it you are holding it?

HIIT after cardio for some may not be beneficial, but for me it does the job, as I still sip on Xtend and Substance while lifting and doing cadrio (a trick Beast Taught me, I love it and love to share!!!)
 
Apowerz6 said:
HIIT after cardio for some may not be beneficial, but for me it does the job, as I still sip on Xtend and Substance while lifting and doing cadrio (a trick Beast Taught me, I love it and love to share!!!)
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what is HIIT training folks? please enlighten me on this.
 
You mean HIIT after weights?

I hear you on the Xtend. I'll try and find a similar product that would work for me. Thanks :)

HIIT= High Intensity Interval Training. Run a search.
 
Day 15: Arms & Abs

WORKOUT
Standing Alt. Dumbell Curl 60x9, 70x5, 75x4, 80x2
Hammer Curl 65x4 70x2
Spider Curl (vertical preacher EZ) 57x8, 62x6 (6s TUT)
Tricep Extension 90x12, 105x6, 120x4
45° Barbell Arm Extension 62x6, 57x6 (6s TUT)
Cable Crunch 200x20, 200x18
Reverse Crunch 12, 6

Bodyweight 229

Workout duration: 60 minutes

Aerobics: 30 minutes on elliptical, said to be worth 360 cals.

Other aerobics: 30 minute bicycle ride

CALORIES
Expended: 3,576
Absorbed: 2,994 (18% fat, 35% carbs, 47% protein = 348g)

OBSERVATIONS
Thirst is about normal. I'm about to do the mid-cycle calorie recap. I'll do the mid-cycle measurements recap in the morning for consistency.
 
Mid-cycle calorie recap

Date . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Expended . . . . . . . . . . Absorbed . . . . . . . . . . Overfeed
4/12/2006 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,660 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,261 . . . . . . . . . . . . 601
4/13/2006 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,522 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,268 . . . . . . . . . . . . 746
4/14/2006 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,679 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,629 . . . . . . . . . . . . -1,050
4/15/2006 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,707 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,411 . . . . . . . . . . . . -296
4/16/2006 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,518 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,328 . . . . . . . . . . . . -190
4/17/2006 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,879 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,225 . . . . . . . . . . . . -654
4/18/2006 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,683 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,042 . . . . . . . . . . . . -641
4/19/2006 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,903 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,766 . . . . . . . . . . . . 863
4/20/2006 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,697 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,844 . . . . . . . . . . . . -853
4/21/2006 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,347 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,416 . . . . . . . . . . . . 69
4/22/2006 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,537 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,466 . . . . . . . . . . . . -71
4/23/2006 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,725 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,679 . . . . . . . . . . . . -1,046
4/24/2006 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,811 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,605 . . . . . . . . . . . . -206
4/25/2006 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,631 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,357 . . . . . . . . . . . . -274
4/26/2006 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,576 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,994 . . . . . . . . . . . . -582

TOTALS . . . . . . . . . . . . . 48,875 . . . . . . . . . . . . 45,291 . . . . . . . . . . . . -3,584

AVERAGES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,258 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,019 . . . . . . . . . . . . -239

3500 calories of deficit in 2 weeks. Whoa, that's really not much. but keep in mind that I was under the impression that my maintenance calorie level was actually 700 more than it is, so this feels like serious dieting to me... :o

Now, without any fat-burner at all, I should be down a pound, right? Well I started with a bodyweight of 229.5 and stand now at 229. No significant change. Might be water. Can't wait to do the measurements tomorrow, that will give a good idea about body composition changes, if any. I feel there are some.
 
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Wow, you are on anal #*(Z^)*)*)@* You might even have Derek (Beast) beat in this dept. i'm jealous.

Ok, that is wide open for misinterpretation...doh! I did it again.

Anyway, big props to you for having an incredibly analytical mind. I hope you do something good occupationally with it.

IBE definitely picked the right guy. This is the best log I have ever seen.
 
Mid-cycle measurements recap

DATE _ _ _ _ 4/12/2006 _ 4/27/2006 _ _ _ CHANGE
Bodyweight _ _ _ 229.5 _ _ _ _ 229.0 _ _ _ _ -0.5lb
left forearm _ _ _ 14.50 _ _ _ _ 14.50 _ _ _ _ _ =
left upper arm _ _ 18.25 _ _ _ _ 18.25 _ _ _ __ =
left deltoid _ _ _ _19.50 _ _ _ _ 19.88 _ _ _ _ +0.375"
around bellybuttn_37.00 _ _ _ _ 35.75 _ _ _ _ -1.25"
left thigh _ _ _ _ _27.50 _ _ _ _ 27.25 _ _ _ _ -0.25"
left calf _ _ _ _ _ 18.00 _ _ _ _ 18.00 _ _ _ _ _ =

So yes, there are body composition changes. I have obviously added LBM, as is evident by the delt measurement and also the waist & bodyweight measurements. Losing 1¼" around the waist isn't something you'd normally see by losing ½lb in bodyweight.

Adding LBM in a calorie deficit, without any anabolics and probable low testosterone, huh? :think: Yeh I'm kinda puzzled by all this. I have a new routine which I am loving very much and is the most likely factor in the muscle gain. I mean, the fragment isn't a muscle-gaining compound so that has to be it. One contributing factor would have to be that the fat freed up from the adipocytes by the fragment would create an "additional calories" effect, allowing me to gain even in a calorie deficit. That's my theory at this point.

Now these changes aren't dramatic and I feel that most of these results would be attainable naturally. No, I don't mean gaining LBM on a calorie deficit, but losing 1¼" around the waist in 2 weeks naturally isn't unheard of at all.

This is only a halfway-point recap, so if as many say, results will gradually increase in the second half of this test, this fragment-thing might be a worthwhile supplement. I had been dosing the full 200mcg at bedtime. For the second half of this test, I will attempt to remember and pin 100mcg preworkout and 100mcg at bedtime, see if that helps.
 
Re: Mid-cycle measurements recap

Grunt76 said:
DATE _ _ _ _ 4/12/2006 _ 4/27/2006 _ _ _ CHANGE
Bodyweight _ _ _ 229.5 _ _ _ _ 229.0 _ _ _ _ -0.5lb
left forearm _ _ _ 14.50 _ _ _ _ 14.50 _ _ _ _ _ =
left upper arm _ _ 18.25 _ _ _ _ 18.25 _ _ _ __ =
left deltoid _ _ _ _19.50 _ _ _ _ 19.88 _ _ _ _ +0.375"
around bellybuttn_37.00 _ _ _ _ 35.75 _ _ _ _ -1.25"
left thigh _ _ _ _ _27.50 _ _ _ _ 27.25 _ _ _ _ -0.25"
left calf _ _ _ _ _ 18.00 _ _ _ _ 18.00 _ _ _ _ _ =

So yes, there are body composition changes. I have obviously added LBM, as is evident by the delt measurement and also the waist & bodyweight measurements. Losing 1¼" around the waist isn't something you'd normally see by losing ½lb in bodyweight.

Adding LBM in a calorie deficit, without any anabolics and probable low testosterone, huh? :think: Yeh I'm kinda puzzled by all this. I have a new routine which I am loving very much and is the most likely factor in the muscle gain. I mean, the fragment isn't a muscle-gaining compound so that has to be it. One contributing factor would have to be that the fat freed up from the adipocytes by the fragment would create an "additional calories" effect, allowing me to gain even in a calorie deficit. That's my theory at this point.

Now these changes aren't dramatic and I feel that most of these results would be attainable naturally. No, I don't mean gaining LBM on a calorie deficit, but losing 1¼" around the waist in 2 weeks naturally isn't unheard of at all.

This is only a halfway-point recap, so if as many say, results will gradually increase in the second half of this test, this fragment-thing might be a worthwhile supplement. I had been dosing the full 200mcg at bedtime. For the second half of this test, I will attempt to remember and pin 100mcg preworkout and 100mcg at bedtime, see if that helps.
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Great log so far. Keep it up. Hopefully you will not start anything new for at least a few days after you have finished dosing the fragment?

That way you can do some folow up measurements to see how much water loss there may be and also if the retention is affecting measurments.
 
Re: Mid-cycle measurements recap

The Godfather said:
Great log so far. Keep it up. Hopefully you will not start anything new for at least a few days after you have finished dosing the fragment?

That way you can do some folow up measurements to see how much water loss there may be and also if the retention is affecting measurments.
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Actually, I have the project of starting clen/T3 for a cutting cycle ASAP after the frag... Of course the doses will be low in the beginning, so we'll see...

somewhatgifted said:
Nice job mang, now your an even sexier biotch.
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Yo! Good to see you in my log man... Trying to catch up to you in the waist department... :D
 
Day 16 (yesterday): Delts, Traps & Calves

WORKOUT
Upright Rowing 165x8, 165x5, 175x3
Dumbell Military Press 65x10, 70x6, 75x4
Bent-Over Laterals 50x8, 55x5, 60x3
Barbell Front Raise 35x8, 35x8, 30x8 (6s TUT)
Dumbell Shrug 115x8, 115x6, 110x6 (6s TUT)
Calf Raise 300x18, 300x16 (6s TUT)

Rest between sets= 120s.

Workout duration 52 minutes

Bodyweight 27.5

Aerobics: 30 minutes treadmill @ 15% incline, 3.6 Km/H, good for 360 calories.

Other exercise: 30 minute bicycle ride.

CALORIES
Expended: 3,641
Absorbed: 3,105 (24% fat, 35% carbs, 42% protein = 315g)

OBSERVATIONS
Allright, so I pinned 100mcg preworkout and had a splendid one. Energetic, focussed, no hypo, good all-around. Flexed my quads some and liked what I saw: a split in my rectus femoris... Only with the proper angle of light, but still... I hadn't seen it in a while! :)

Did another 100mcg at bedtime. Nothing else to report for now.
 
Day 17: Rest

CALORIES
Expended: 2,727
Absorbed: 2,676 (20% fat, 42% carbs, 38% protein = 243g)

OBSERVATIONS
Had a cheat meal with the lady, that's why my nutrients are off. Will pin 200mcg at bedtime. Nothing else to report.
 
so do you feel that the Frag is good for gaining LBM while cutting fat...or just mainly for cutting fat?
 
how are you pinning, are u splitting up the dosages or are you doing it all AM

i see diff things on diff logs and im wondering what effect it has to run the dosage at wake, or before the gym

5 on 2 off .

all so confusing
 
I-Vtec said:
how are you pinning, are u splitting up the dosages or are you doing it all AM

i see diff things on diff logs and im wondering what effect it has to run the dosage at wake, or before the gym

5 on 2 off .

all so confusing
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I am of the opinion that you should do it every day and all at once because that is what the clinical trial's protocls are (although the delivery is oral now)
 
I think you are right Godfather but the problems is that it can get pretty expensive with the two extra days added in. I am doing 5 on 2 off. Of course IBE was gracious enough to let us try this at their expense for now but I want to see if we can get some results at a slightly more cost effective rate.

Mr.50

P.S. sorry for the slight hijack.



The Godfather said:
I am of the opinion that you should do it every day and all at once because that is what the clinical trial's protocls are (although the delivery is oral now)
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Day 18(yesterday): Back & Biceps

WORKOUT
Dumbell Rowing 125x10, 135x5, 135x4
Wide-Grip Chin-Up 229.5x5, 229.5x5, 229.5x3
Body Rowing 229.5x8, 229.5x8, 229.5x7 (6s TUT)
Reverse Hyperextension 35x7, 40x5, 35x8
EZ Bar curl 103x6, 123x3
Concentration curl 30x8, 30x8 (6s TUT)

Bodyweight 227.5

Workout duration 52 minutes

Aerobics: 30 minutes treadmill @ 15% incline, 3.6 Km/H, good for 450 calories.

Other exercise: 30 minute bicycle ride.

CALORIES
Expended: 3,740
Absorbed: 3,486 (25% fat, 31% carbs, 44% protein = 394g)

OBSERVATIONS
Pinned 200mcg preworkout. Had a truly GREAT session. I don't mean "good", I mean GREAT. I see a pattern emerging here: when I pin it preworkout, I simply have more energy than usual. If you refer to one of my first posts in this log, I expressed similar sentiments in the very beginning, with the added inconvenience of hypoglycemia. Which isn't occuring anymore now that my body has acclimated to the Frag. Overall, I'm liking this stuff more and more.
 
Day 19: Chest & Triceps

WORKOUT
Flat Barbell Bench Press 245x7, 265x4, 275x3
Incline Dumbell Press 95x6, 100x3, 100x3
Cable crossover 65x8, 70x6, 65x8
Incline Dumbell Flye 35x8, 35x8, 35x6
Close-Grip Bench 175x8, 190x5, 205x3
Reverse-Grip Cable Extension 60x8, 65x8

Bodyweight 227.5

Workout duration 55 minutes

Aerobics: 30 minute bicycle ride.

CALORIES
Expended: 3,298
Absorbed: 3,486 (25% fat, 31% carbs, 44% protein = 394g)

OBSERVATIONS
Not a super-great workout: too much food of disputable nutritional content before the workout. Insane thirst and insane bladder action. I just don't get it: it seems diuretic from all the water I excreted but it also seems to induce water retention at the same time. :think:
 
Day 20 (yesterday): Rest

CALORIES
Expended: 2,526
Absorbed: 2,860 (26% fat, 27% carbs, 46% protein = 312g)

OBSERVATIONS
Since it was a rest day, I pinned the 200mcg about an hour after a fat-free meal, hoping to get the most out of this frag. Again, great thirst ensues. It does seem to cut my appetite also, I did not feel hungry for quite a few hours afterward. I delayed my meal, thinking this lack of appetite is certainly consistent with a high level of free fatty acids in the blood, as is the added energy come workout time. Giving these FFAs enough chance to get used up is a priority IMO. Maybe I should do a follow-up meal of only protein, such as tuna, after pinning the frag, just to make sure I do not trigger any insulin after freeing up these FFAs.

RANT
So today was a day off, I stayed home cleaning house and waiting for 4 deliveries, all for supplements. I heard the very unique sound the mail trucks do, so I went to my door the stairs, waiting for him to ring the doorbell, my finger on the buzzer, until I heard the truck leave. THE STUPID ****ING ****HEAD MAILMAN CAN'T EVEN RIGHT MY ****ING DOORBELL... ****!!!!! He left a "no answer" coupon in the mailbox. :rant: :frustrate :smite: :smite: :aargh: :saw: :gore: :shoot: :sad:
 
Re: Day 20 (yesterday): Rest

Grunt76 said:
CALORIES
Expended: 2,526
Absorbed: 2,860 (26% fat, 27% carbs, 46% protein = 312g)

OBSERVATIONS
Since it was a rest day, I pinned the 200mcg about an hour after a fat-free meal, hoping to get the most out of this frag. Again, great thirst ensues. It does seem to cut my appetite also, I did not feel hungry for quite a few hours afterward. I delayed my meal, thinking this lack of appetite is certainly consistent with a high level of free fatty acids in the blood, as is the added energy come workout time. Giving these FFAs enough chance to get used up is a priority IMO. Maybe I should do a follow-up meal of only protein, such as tuna, after pinning the frag, just to make sure I do not trigger any insulin after freeing up these FFAs.

RANT
So today was a day off, I stayed home cleaning house and waiting for 4 deliveries, all for supplements. I heard the very unique sound the mail trucks do, so I went to my door the stairs, waiting for him to ring the doorbell, my finger on the buzzer, until I heard the truck leave. THE STUPID ****ING ****HEAD MAILMAN CAN'T EVEN RIGHT MY ****ING DOORBELL... ****!!!!! He left a "no answer" coupon in the mailbox. :rant: :frustrate :smite: :smite: :aargh: :saw: :gore: :shoot: :sad:
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Most protein is quite insulinogenic so just ingesting protein would cause the same possible theoretical problems.

Secondly fatty acids can actually be stored as triglycerides in WAT without the presence of insulin due to an annoying hormone called acylation stimulating hormone and its precusor complement component 3. Here is the link to a full study which basically looks at fat storage following a fat only and fat + carb meal.

This backup pathway that allows FFAs to be stored without insulin of course is obe of the many problems of food combining as fat + protein meals can still easily lead to TG synthesis:

Invalid Link Removed
 
Re: Day 20 (yesterday): Rest

The Godfather said:
Most protein is quite insulinogenic so just ingesting protein would cause the same possible theoretical problems.

Secondly fatty acids can actually be stored as triglycerides in WAT without the presence of insulin due to an annoying hormone called acylation stimulating hormone and its precusor complement component 3. Here is the link to a full study which basically looks at fat storage following a fat only and fat + carb meal.

This backup pathway that allows FFAs to be stored without insulin of course is obe of the many problems of food combining as fat + protein meals can still easily lead to TG synthesis:

Invalid Link Removed
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Forgot to mention it is the chylomicrons that are what stimulate C3 and ASP. They are what the lipids are packaged into after absorption from the gut and transported within through the lymphatic system. Now as the FFAs from the framgment induced lipolysis will be in the bloodstream, instead, bound to albumin I am not sure by what mechanism lipogenesis will occur but I am sure it will as there are transmembrane transport proteins that would pull the FFAs from the bloodstream into the FFA pool in the adipocytes.

The most important thing imo is being in a hypocaloric state as if you are in a fed state those FFAs released by the fragment are not going to undergo oxidation but will instead will be re-esterfied and stored as TGs (possible mechanisms described above) as they will be serving no purpose. Of course it is a different matter if you are in a calorie deficit as the body will be requiring non-dietary energy and so if you have some nice extra FFAs they will be oxidised and so this will be muscle, muscular glycogen and hepatic glycogen protective. This is one of the ways ephedrine is anti-catabolic it stimulates HSL and so provides FFAs that will make up any energy deficit rather than amino acids.
 
...and it is also the way in which clen is indirectly anticatabolic while being directly catabolic in the higher doses.

Your contribution is appreciated, these are details that a lot of people reading these logs need to know, especially those who mistakenly believe you can inject the fragment, pig out, and lean out at the same time. What I would like to see is something that can leech the FFAs out of the bloodstream into the urine. That would be a great supplement to stack with this fragment thingie.

Do you think tuna is insulinogenic? I'd think it would be a LOT less so than whey. The reason I speak of the meal after pinning is for the non-training days, as it seems fairly obvious that preworkout is the way to go. These very things you speak of further increase my notion that 100mcg 2XED would be better than 200mcg all at once. What do you think? Well, I pinned about 15 minutes ago, so time for squats.
 
Grunt76 said:
...and it is also the way in which clen is indirectly anticatabolic while being directly catabolic in the higher doses.

Your contribution is appreciated, these are details that a lot of people reading these logs need to know, especially those who mistakenly believe you can inject the fragment, pig out, and lean out at the same time. What I would like to see is something that can leech the FFAs out of the bloodstream into the urine. That would be a great supplement to stack with this fragment thingie.

Do you think tuna is insulinogenic? I'd think it would be a LOT less so than whey. The reason I speak of the meal after pinning is for the non-training days, as it seems fairly obvious that preworkout is the way to go. These very things you speak of further increase my notion that 100mcg 2XED would be better than 200mcg all at once. What do you think? Well, I pinned about 15 minutes ago, so time for squats.
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Don't thank me for the contributions I would prefer to thank you for taking the risk etc of logging this drug and I must say very well.

I guess the closest thing to something that gets rid of fat would be Orlistat though of course that is all dietary fat and you guess nice oily stains when you eat a bit too much fat. Though they a number of companies are developing pancreatic lipase inhibitors that also have a polymer that the lipids can bind to avoid those nasty side effects. Also on a similar note DPP-IV inhibitors are being developed for diabetics and possibly obesity which will allow glucose to be pissed out.

I was looking at a couple of the articles with full texts on AOD9604 and its parent molecule AOD9401 and although they did seem unsure about mechanism completely it seems as though that a fair amount of the weight loss seen in mice and rats is mediated through B3 receptors and BAT thermogenesis which of course is a shame. Saying that though it still had an B3-independent effect on fat oxidation and energy expenditure and so it could be helping to burn off some of the liberated FFAs.

In terms of dosing I think pre-workout is a given as being the optimal and I would therefore define that as the optimally would actually be low to moderate intensity long duration cardio as that is when you are going to be maximising oxidising all the FFAs but of course it is going to be a good idea pre-resistance exercise or HIIT. Actually one could make a case that it could eliminate the traditional contra-indication of resistance followed by long duration cardio (more than 35-40minutes) as it will be anti-catabolic.

In terms of rest days I am unsure. I would say that first thing in the morning sounds like a very good idea pre-breakfast and then having a protein only breakfast. As it would provide the necessary substrate for energy that your body is using and the protein could then be used in for synthesis. That could be done with the whole dose or 100mcg not sure.

At other times I would say as far away from meals as possible for reasons outlined above.

Not too sure about pre-bedtime as you would already have GH-mediated increase in lipolysis due to the fasted state that you encounter and so I don't know how much that would be enhanced (though I am not really well read up on this so I would be very happy to be corrected on that)

In terms of tuna being less insulinogenic than whey I am with you on that but the necessary concentrations of insulin for inhibition of lipolysis and incresed lipogenesis is pretty low if I remember correctly. I would agree with you though that the meal following dosing should be protein only (unless around workout) as the FFAs would act as the oxidisable substrate and the protein could be used for other purposes. It would be necessary to see human pharmacokinetics to decide on an optimum dosing schedule as then one could dose it 3-4 hours after a last meal as a normal meal substitute and following (or just before to take into account protein digestion and absorption time) maximal induced lipolysis you could hit the protein so that you wouldn't inhibit the lipolysis much and still have amino acids around.

Of course that is all theoretical crapand it will probably works fine without wqorrying about all of that, if you just inject it whilst in a calorie deficit but would be a bit boring ;)
 
Day 21 (yesterday): Thighs & Calves

WORKOUT
ATD Squat 225x12, 225x8, 225x8
Sissy Squat 5x7, 0x8, 0x7
SLDL Toes Raised 185x10, 195x7 185x7
Leg Curl 85x8, 90x7
Leg Extension 90x8, 90x7
Calf Raise 300x18 300x16

Bodyweight 227.5

Workout duration: 52 minutes

Aerobics: Treadmill, 35 minutes @ 15% incline, 3.7 Km/h

Other aerobics: Bicycle ride, 30 minutes


CALORIES
Expended: 3,689
Absorbed: 2,479 (29% fat, 29% carbs, 42% protein = 252g)

Observations
I was able to squat again!! :woohoo: Twice in 3 weeks!! Good workout... :)
 
Day 22 (yesterday for real): Arms & Abs

WORKOUT
Close-Grip Bench Extension 190x8, 200x5 220x3
Kick-Back 50x5, 60x3
Overhead DB Extension 25x8, 25x7
Dumbell Curl Seated 50x8, 55x5, 60x4
Supinated Concentration Curl 30x8, 30x8, 30x8
Ball Crunch 15 13
Reverse Crunch 15 8

Bodyweight 226.5

Workout duration: 50 minutes

Aerobics: Treadmill, 30 minutes @ 15% incline, 3.7 Km/h

Other aerobics: Bicycle ride, 35 minutes


CALORIES
Expended: 3,695
Absorbed: 2,743 (24% fat, 38% carbs, 38% protein = 262g)

Observations
Another good workout. Felt warm after dosing the fragment about 60 minutes preworkout. Felt hungry at the end of aerobics but had eaten quite a bit earlier than usual relative to my workout time. Weight is down for the first time significantly since starting the log. After examining myself well, I realized that my water retention changes dramatically during the day. In the afternoon/evening, I retain much water whereas I'm less bloated in the morning before pinning. Interesting. I have a feeling that it will be a few days after stopping the fragment until this water clears up. Interesting about the weightloss though. We'll see if this is a trend? I'm not complaining though, my lifts are up and I have a feeling I might have put on a bit of LBM also... :think:
 
Re: Day 22 (yesterday for real): Arms & Abs

Grunt76 said:
Observations
Weight is down for the first time significantly since starting the log. After examining myself well, I realized that my water retention changes dramatically during the day. In the afternoon/evening, I retain much water whereas I'm less bloated in the morning before pinning. Interesting. I have a feeling that it will be a few days after stopping the fragment until this water clears up. Interesting about the weightloss though. We'll see if this is a trend? I'm not complaining though, my lifts are up and I have a feeling I might have put on a bit of LBM also... :think:
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Grunt, I've noticed the same thing as far as water retention is much greater later on the day, compared to that in the morning. But, I've been pinning at bedtime, or during the night, so Im not too sure if the timing of the frag has to do with the increased bloat throughout the day. It just might be because we arent drinking anything during the night, thus the bloat decreases. As we drink and eat during the day, then the bloat steadily increases. Just my outlook on it. :)
 
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