? for those who have run 12+ week cycles?

[neverstop]

Looking for thoughts on why there seems to be so many people running 9-12 week cycles but nobody running 16 or 18 week cycles?

I know there are the obvious health reasons (bp, etc) but, assuming you are running HCG and monitoring your health closely, is there any evidence to support the notion that recovery from a 14 week cycle is that much worse than a 10 week?

has anyone here run a 16+ week cycle and used nolva/clomid for PCT and had great test levels post PCT?


I ask because I'd like to run a 16 week bulking cycle
test 500mg a week
deca 350mg a week
MAYBE some EQ
arimidex
and then run three mdrol cycles like this 20/20/20/0/0/0/20/20/20/0/0/0/10/20/20/20
and I'd run IGF when off the Mdrol
HCG throughout

PCG
clomid and nolva


goal is to put on 20+ lbs of muscle (dont care about bf) after PCT and I don't think that is possible in a 10-12 week cycle.

 

[UnrealMachine]

I haven't but i'll chime in with what I've read, a lot of people running long test cycles report that their gains slow down, sometimes grinding to a halt, around the 9 week mark. It is at that point that they either increase the dose or throw in another compound.

So the reasoning against such a long cycle would be that it isn't going to be extremely productive unless you also increase dose or play around with different compounds (like an oral finisher) to keep gains coming. Because if you're on just test for months and months, the gains are going to slow down....

In terms of recovery i don't think it's a big deal. Especially if HCG is in play.

 

[neverstop]

thanks unreal, your thoughts are appreciated.

I've also noticed that but I've only been on one cycle of test that was >9 weeks and I just increased dose and added tren when my gains slowed down.
That is a good point I had forgotten about since if you are on longer your cortisol levels will increase. Maybe I could add lean extreme 7-oh or some suppress C by CEL but not sure if those are suppressive.

 

[rckvl7]

Louie Simmons never comes off cycle. I dunno if he switches compounds/doses around or what but he is always on.

 

[rckvl7]

This is an excerpt from an interview with Louie


NM: What is your stance on the use of steroids?

LS: The dangers are way overrated. It's corticoid steroids that they inject football players with every day that will kill you! Personally, I've done anabolic steroids straight for the last 28 years.

NM: Do you cycle?

LS: No, I stay on. I don't believe in periodization in training, either. I use mostly anabolics like Equipoise and Laurabolin until it's time for a competition, and then I do the harder androgens. I do not take Anadrol. I've never had any problems. I know guys who take much more than I do, to the point where you can call it abuse, and they don't seem to have any problems, either. There's no possible way I can train the way I do without taking anabolics, but the same techniques of training apply even if you're natural. I've also used the andro products and find that they give a greater boost in aggression than steroids! At least temporarily. I use them right before training.

 

[UnrealMachine]

lots of people are on test year round but obviously at that point your gains are way slow and most of your progress is made during high dosed blasts when you throw in other compounds. You can't do something like 300mg of test year round and expect to make significant gains on it, if that were the case you'd end up at 500 pounds

I don't really see much reason to exceed about 16 weeks. Say you get 9 before the gains slow and then you throw in a short ester for 2 more months, then you're done. Probably better off just doing PCT and waiting and cycling again then spending more time on just getting diminishing returns.

 

[neverstop]

yeah, there are lots of pros that stay on year round but I've heard some of them are on HRT once they finally have to come off and I'd like to avoid that.

I'm wondering how much worse recovery is though and how much it increases the risk your body may not recover properly?

 

[UnrealMachine]

From what I've read... I'm really not worried... I've read about people being on for a year and recovering. It's being on for more than that or with abusive doses that fry your balls' leydig cells and give you real problems. Of course everyone's limits will be different.

Hopefully you will get some useful responses from people that have actually cycled long and heavy but there's not a ton of those guys on this board

 

[neverstop]

yeah, I'm thinking promuscle may have more guys who've cycled hard and for a long time but there are some smart dudes on here. There is so much "bro knowledge" that I'd like to hear some valid reasons with research on why we all do cycle lengths of a certain duration, etc

 

[rckvl7]

Yeah I don't think Louie ever plans to come off, he will die with a barbell in his hands. I'm not advocating long cycles or never coming off, just trying to get you a little info on it. I've never done any of the illegal stuff myself.

 

[khiladi]

I second on Unreals reasoning, at 37yrs i look back and see it differently now, done that in my late 20's and into early 30's, unless you are competing, getting paid to do so or under TRT, i dont see why u need to stretch it to 5 months or so and need more drugs to see gains, furthermore, i hate the feeling of becoming a pin cushion, esp if using GH, slin, and short ester AAS's. As Lee Haney once said "If you take a 8oz glass and fill it with water till its full, if you still keep filling more water, that water is only going to spill out"(or something along those lines), referring to your body and drugs obviously. Gd luck!

 

[MSE]

yeah, I'm thinking promuscle may have more guys who've cycled hard and for a long time but there are some smart dudes on here. There is so much "bro knowledge" that I'd like to hear some valid reasons with research on why we all do cycle lengths of a certain duration, etc

I have ran Test for 16 weeks but only because I run it along with EQ which is so slow to kick in....

 

[neverstop]

i'm not really running large doses here and I really enjoy being on cycle and don't mind being a pin cushion, hahah.

thanks man

 

[SprtNvolcoM]

I perfer longer cycles verses short cycles. I've done both and I dont really see a difference other than the quality of gains. I've run 20wk+ cycles before mixing and machting several different compounds without many sides other than acne (of course I always follow a strict PCT protocol post cycle). I honestly think sides are dependant on the individual ...

For me, gains arn't really dependant on my cycle, but rather my workout. I usually run a combination between HRT and DC type workouts - always changing weight and exercises to prevent adaptation. I've never had a problem seeing gains past the 16wk mark.

Just my opinion,
Sprt

 

[neverstop]

awesome, thanks.

either of you guys notice any difference in coming off? ie: was PCT much harder? did you guys get blood work done post cycle? I'm assuming you both used HCG too right?

 

[MSE]

awesome, thanks.

either of you guys notice any difference in coming off? ie: was PCT much harder? did you guys get blood work done post cycle? I'm assuming you both used HCG too right?

No HCG just nolva, EQ is pretty mild and I was only running 500mg of Test P so nolva did the trick just fine, never had any blood work done though.

 

[SprtNvolcoM]

awesome, thanks.

either of you guys notice any difference in coming off? ie: was PCT much harder? did you guys get blood work done post cycle? I'm assuming you both used HCG too right?

Hcg, Nolva, and clomid ... not all at once of course. Blood work was normal a month or 2 after that 20wK+ cycle. If your going to go looong, id recomend Hcg for sure.

Sprt

 

[MSE]

Hcg, Nolva, and clomid ... not all at once of course. Blood work was normal a month or 2 after that 20wK+ cycle. If your going to go looong, id recomend Hcg for sure.

Sprt

Yeah, probably mild or not, anything over 16 wks should probably have HCG in there.

 

[neverstop]

how come you didn't get your bloodwork done? I messed up PCT once and never knew how shut down I was till I had it checked weeks later and after I dropped 10lbs other than that though I fealt fine, libido, skin, etc.

 

[MSE]

how come you didn't get your bloodwork done? I messed up PCT once and never knew how shut down I was till I had it checked weeks later and after I dropped 10lbs other than that though I fealt fine, libido, skin, etc.

Didn't feel the need to get the blood work done, felt fine and was not losing weight or that much strength.

 

[neverstop]

understood, most people don't do blood work but after a cycle that long I would. I'll be running a mild cycle too but with short "blasts" or mdrol throughout, so sort of similar to your cycle I little.