For guys who have a family, this is one of the most important post..

The Matrix

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I am finding an alarming increase in 677 and 1298 mthfr mutation in people which I feel because of stress (biological,neurological,lifestyle, environmental, psychological, structural) genes are being expressed. The result of these gene expression is a potential dramatic increase in neurological, cancer, autism, and other degenerative health disorders. Parents I have found having these mutations are now having their child tested which are also showing up positive. These children who are predisposed with these mutation to mercury vaccines are creating a dangerous scenerio. With the activation of these mutation through gene expression it is not allowing the child to properly detoxify environmental chemicals. The child's altered ability to detoxify is one of the main theories by which autism is on the rise due to the weaken immune system of the child from previous mentioned stressors. I have talked to a number of specialists in the field and they have agree on the same thing. This is the future of America . Its scarey to think about. I have an idea its only going to get worse if we do not take responsiblity for our childrens well being. I also have these mutations and carrier of both, but have taken the necessary steps to protect me from its potential health risks. People will have different views, but like many on the forums are now starting to take it more seriously if they want to get better and also protect their children. One case I just worked on was a 26 year old women who had several miscarriages. The Dr played it off with stress. I decided to look deeper, and what was found was she had both mutations. She was literally in tears when this information was found out. She presented it to her OBGYN who know of it, but said it was rare occurence. Since this was brought to her attention and her doing further research she is now testing ever female patient who is thinking about getting pregnant. I know also recommend any male or female who has a history of neurological, heart disease, stroke to also get tested. Tests are covered by many different insurance if not it can be done for $140 on line..
 

kisaj

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I read this twice, but I don't get what you are saying. I have two children, so I am curious.
 
DetroitHammer

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I read this twice, but I don't get what you are saying. I have two children, so I am curious.
I did too.... Matrix, slow down and take a deep breath and try it again. It's not the clinical language, but the syntax and grammar. Sounds like stress is causing genetic problems?
 
The Matrix

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I did too.... Matrix, slow down and take a deep breath and try it again. It's not the clinical language, but the syntax and grammar. Sounds like stress is causing genetic problems?
Stress from the factors mentioned above are expresses these gene mutations which is causing issues with detoxfication of environmental toxins which are commonly found in mercury injection being given to children. It can be expressed as increase in neurological, cardiovascular, inablity to detoxify due to alter liver pathways (methylation). Children having these mutations will be at great risk of developing autistic like symptoms (AKA mercury load) or later CVD, depression, diabetes and other degenerative health issues. Mercury is not the issue its the child's inablity to unload of it from predisposed mutations passed down from the parent then activated by environmental or other stressors.
 
napalm

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Stress from the factors mentioned above are expresses these gene mutations which is causing issues with detoxfication of environmental toxins which are commonly found in mercury injection being given to children. It can be expressed as increase in neurological, cardiovascular, inablity to detoxify due to alter liver pathways (methylation). Children having these mutations will be at great risk of developing autistic like symptoms (AKA mercury load) or later CVD, depression, diabetes and other degenerative health issues. Mercury is not the issue its the child's inablity to unload of it from predisposed mutations passed down from the parent then activated by environmental or other stressors.
Matrix, paragraphs are your friend here.

Interesting stuff...
 

kisaj

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Lol. What's amusing is that obviously Matrix can write clearly, but this is just jarbled.

What I am getting from this is that- stress from biological, neurological, lifestyle, environmental, psychological, and structural causes in parents are being passed to their children and when they receive injections that contain mercury, they bodies cannot deal with it due to a gene development. This is causing an increase in autism and/or other health issues.

Is this correct?
 
The Matrix

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Matrix, paragraphs are your friend here.

Interesting stuff...
Computers are not my friend. Typing on iphone stinks.
 
DetroitHammer

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I didn't know anyone was given injections of mercury. That's certain death. You're not even supposed to touch it.
 
The Matrix

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I didn't know anyone was given injections of mercury. That's certain death. You're not even supposed to touch it.
It is what's found in immunizations
 

kisaj

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Wouldn't this go back to the theory that Dr Sears was following with regards to vaccinations? Spread them out so there isn't a high level of Thimerosal being introduced at one time? We followed that with our first daughter and then did a lot of research on it and worked with our doctor. The levels are so minute that it really doesn't make a difference and it seems to be something that most pediatricians are recognizing now. Our pediatrician is very holistic and believes in staggered dosing, but with new studies showing it isn't that beneficial, he is leaning towards the need for spreading the doses as not as important.

I can only assume this is what you are referencing. There is no way anyone in their right mind isn't going to vaccinate their children, so there is no getting around it.
 

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The Matrix

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Thimerosal has been all but removed, except for maybe trace amounts in children's vaccines. Inactivated flu vaccine does contain this in higher amounts, but I don't know of a pediatrician that would administer that in a child without the option of a preservative free version.
Mercury free is not mercury free, there are still trace amounts of it in the vaccines. People are not aware of this, but I had cases where I worked on people where sensitive to specific metals and mercury was at the top of the list. Good comparison is gluten sensitivity. I have people so gluten sensitive they where complaining the diet was not working. I mentioned the idea of cross contamination from pans cutting boards and so forth. It was not untill they removed all cross contamination they notice the effects of actually removing gluten out of their diet. Same is holding true now for many metals. Preservative free does not make it any safer, actually from reports of some detoxification specialist mentioned its worse.
 

kisaj

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Ok, so then what are you saying? You can't be implying that people shouldn't immunize...right?
 
The Matrix

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Ok, so then what are you saying? You can't be implying that people shouldn't immunize...right?
People need to be aware of the potential risks when certain factors which may be involved for the sake of the children. Obviously something is going on if autism is on the rise by well over 1/3, food allergies in children are also dramatically on the rise. If we are.not proactive then no one else will be.
 

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Ok, so then what are you saying? You can't be implying that people shouldn't immunize...right?
Not at all. Myself and my daughter (1yr old) both are homozygous for the C677t mutation, meaning we have 2 copies. At 2 copies, the body is only able to detox metals at a 7%-11% efficiency rate. The idea is to spread the vaccinations out far enough apart to give the body ample time to detox the metals.

If I’m reading my daughter’s chart correctly, she’s already received 20 vaccinations. Most of these are combo shots like a 4-5 in 1 to lessen the amount of pricks/shots to make it easier. BUT, because of this, there are more preservatives (metals). I’m still trying to grasp all of this so my info is not very detailed, sorry. The good news is, my daughter’s doctor believes in using the lower preservative vaccinations, which contain less metals.

The key for us now is to make sure we can provide her with the best possible preventative care. Me on the other hand at 39 years of age suffer from many issues stemming from the MTHFR gene defect. One of them happens to be hypogonadism, which is why I’m here.
 

kisaj

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Not at all. Myself and my daughter (1yr old) both are homozygous for the C677t mutation, meaning we have 2 copies. At 2 copies, the body is only able to detox metals at a 7%-11% efficiency rate. The idea is to spread the vaccinations out far enough apart to give the body ample time to detox the metals.

If I’m reading my daughter’s chart correctly, she’s already received 20 vaccinations. Most of these are combo shots like a 4-5 in 1 to lessen the amount of pricks/shots to make it easier. BUT, because of this, there are more preservatives (metals). I’m still trying to grasp all of this so my info is not very detailed, sorry. The good news is, my daughter’s doctor believes in using the lower preservative vaccinations, which contain less metals.

The key for us now is to make sure we can provide her with the best possible preventative care. Me on the other hand at 39 years of age suffer from many issues stemming from the MTHFR gene defect. One of them happens to be hypogonadism, which is why I’m here.
Exactly the theory behind the Dr. Sears method. We would spread it out over time, with two shots per visit. When we started to look into it and talk to several pediatricians, including our own, they all showed us research indicating that this just isn't the case and that we weren't really doing any good. We stuck with it, just because we preferred it and our doctor supported the decision.

I just get furious when I hear quacks that try to tell people that immunization is dangerous and not to do it. I sense that this is what is happening here, without it being said outright.
 

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I don’t have any issues with immunizations being given cautiously with those that are positive for the MTHFR gene mutation. We will be working with a referred doctor by our pediatrician to work out an immunization schedule that best fits her and the disorder.
 

kisaj

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When you do that, maybe post it up. I know there are alot of different schedules you can do. Ours was pretty cautious, but not as much as my wife would have liked because there are a couple that you can't get split up. They used to do it, but it is impossible to get it like that now. I don't know which ones they are, but I could find out.
 
The Matrix

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This was not an attack against vaccinations. It was an informative post for people who might not have have not known about this mutation and its potential detrimental effects on health as well as your children. With proper evaluation from nutra eval (people think is quack test) and a few other markers I was able to isolate the potential for this gene. This is why I had the Dr do further testing and that is when I found it in Subtemp. I feels its one of the reasons why he is dealing with issues today. Just imagine if this was not caught. With a few modification there may be hope to get him off the majority of meds which he was placed on prematurely. Time will tell..
 
anathemax

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Matrix - very interesting. I will say that the first several posts did come off as somewhat alarmist, I think the rushed phone typing was the biggest culprit though.

What is the exact test that one would look for? C677T and 1298 mthfr mutation? I'm curious, as I have a couple of different friends with autistic children - Luckily mine have shown no symptoms as of yet, but they are very young and still receiving immunizations.

So far we have had absolutely zero luck in our area finding a pediatrician willing to space out these vaccinations, despite our slight reservations. Of course I have no idea what the content of these immunizations have been, or even if myself or my children have these mutations. I'd like a little more information on what exact test should be run, and what we would be looking for. Curiosity piqued.
 

kisaj

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I find that very strange, to be honest. We switched pediatrics several times before finding the one that we have, and they all would immunize based on your schedule. They had recommendations, but would adhere to what the parents wanted. I assumed that was the case everywhere.
 
anathemax

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I don't have their justifications handy - but we are on our third. I always hear about it secondhand - my work schedule doesn't allow me to attend the appointments.
 
The Matrix

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Quest or lab corp can do them.
Mthfr mutation

If not then you can get it done $140 from online labs.
 
The Matrix

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Quest or lab corp can do them.
Mthfr mutation

If not then you can get it done $140 from online labs.
I have worked on autistic cases in the past with a few drs. Its interesting all the approaches used in majority of issues presented here were from my research from biochemistry and neurology of autistic children. Gi liver nutritional thyroid immune neurology are common principles involved which now I apply to common cases with people like ourselves.
 
The Matrix

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good info
Yes I am getting away from the hormone band wagon with guys <35 and going after root causes by exploring multiple factors. As many have found some times complementing HRT by addressing other areas may allow them to get more benefit out of their current therapy. It have also help them to get off of exogenous testosterone replacement therapy which they have been on some times for several years. My concern is health of the person whole family not just men. If a child is sick it can result in declining the parents health dramatically. With out getting into too much detail in heart wrenching case I am currently working on the mental well being of the child is possible driving the parent into a doing the unthinkable. After seeing the multiple pages of labs she has red flags for this same mutation showing up which did not surprise me one bit...The effect of these gene expression can have a profound effect on multiple areas of a person well being. Fanzdspwr1 is find out this first hand as we are investigating this with him from a few markers which caught my eye which would have slipped right through traditional medicine because they are completely in normal range. If one was to ask a normal medicine dr his response "those are some of the best numbers I have seen" not knowing what the true consequence of them really are..
 

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Matrix - very interesting. I will say that the first several posts did come off as somewhat alarmist, I think the rushed phone typing was the biggest culprit though.

What is the exact test that one would look for? C677T and 1298 mthfr mutation? I'm curious, as I have a couple of different friends with autistic children - Luckily mine have shown no symptoms as of yet, but they are very young and still receiving immunizations.

So far we have had absolutely zero luck in our area finding a pediatrician willing to space out these vaccinations, despite our slight reservations. Of course I have no idea what the content of these immunizations have been, or even if myself or my children have these mutations. I'd like a little more information on what exact test should be run, and what we would be looking for. Curiosity piqued.
MTHFR gene mutation is what my daughter's test says. From what I understand, this will test the most common C677t and 1298 mutations. My daughter's pediatrician wanted nothing to do with additional vaccinations once she read up on MTHFR and autism. The doctor will work with whatever schedule the specialist agrees to.
 

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Dr klinghardt my brother woulda been autistic if we woulda vaccinated
 
DAdams91982

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People need to be aware of the potential risks when certain factors which may be involved for the sake of the children. Obviously something is going on if autism is on the rise by well over 1/3, food allergies in children are also dramatically on the rise. If we are.not proactive then no one else will be.
This is still a bit alarmist here.

The definition and diagnosis of autism has drastically changed over the years similar to ADD. Hell, now if you are in introvert you have a marker for autism.

There is no brain-imaging test for autism, let alone a blood test or other rigorously objective diagnostic. Instead, physicians determine whether someone fits the criteria laid out in the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, or DSM.


The manual has undergone significant changes over the years, including in the diagnostic criteria for autism. In its current version, someone must fit at least eight of 16 criteria, including symptoms involving social interaction, communication, and repetitive or restricted behaviors and interests.


The previous version was stricter, describing one diagnostic criterion as “a pervasive lack of responsiveness to other people.” In the current manual, that became “a lack of spontaneous seeking to share …. achievements with other people” and friendships that appear less sophisticated than the norm for a child’s age.


The earlier manual also required “gross deficits in language development” and “peculiar speech patterns” for a diagnosis, while the current one lists difficulty “sustain(ing) a conversation” or “lack of varied . . . social imitative play.”


Morton Ann Gernsbacher, a professor of psychology and autism researcher at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, and others have cited these changes to question the reality of the reported autism increase.

As for the link to vaccines. Again, this is voodoo science. Not one case can be linked back to vaccines for autism. Again, autism is a diagnosis of exclusion. The rise of autism coincides with prominent vaccinations, but ironically also coincides with the morphing of autism definition.

And Standon... I believe you are trying to say your doc said your brother woulda been autistic if he was vaccinated? Am I correct in that as your syntax of your sentence is off. If that was the intention of your post your doctor is expressing his beliefs upon you rather than stating science. Sort of like a Judge Activist.

A bit alarming the other way, but quite a bit of truth in there. Mashup from the rest of the intertubes.

http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/Jenny_McCarthy_Body_Count/Home.html
 
The Matrix

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Dr klinghardt my brother woulda been autistic if we woulda vaccinated
i have read alot of Dr Klinghardt research. Its the stuff which I thrive on bringing to enlighten and share with other medical professionals. I have been saying this for years alot of the pathology of diseases can be linked by to simple chemical imbalances leading expression of genes which are precipitated from stressor (structural, biological, neurological, emotional, lifestyle, environmental). Majority of what we are dealing are only symptoms coming from expressions of deeper underlying issues. I'm sure Most Drs would refer to him as a quack because he goes out side the box of traditional medicine.
 

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You seem to be a bit of an alarmist, Matrix. I'm not saying that you don't have interesting takes on things, but I feel like you run around yelling fire sometimes.
 
The Matrix

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You seem to be a bit of an alarmist, Matrix. I'm not saying that you don't have interesting takes on things, but I feel like you run around yelling fire sometimes.
No its not being alarming its called giving you food for thought, but as Subtemp mentioned it hit home with his DR. After going to a seminar, and mention what I was finding in the past year or so. Other medical professionals started testing it and finding the same thing !! If I did not find it with parent they would have no clue. now other children have a chance...
 

kisaj

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But a chance with what? I understand you are providing information, but do you have a stance? Are we talking about modified immunization schedules, no immunization, other?
 
The Matrix

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But a chance with what? I understand you are providing information, but do you have a stance? Are we talking about modified immunization schedules, no immunization, other?
Need to talk this over with your pediatrician you may want to contact Subtemp. I am just the messenger and cataylst....
 

kisaj

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Need to talk this over with your pediatrician you may want to contact Subtemp. I am just the messenger and cataylst....
Lol, thx. We have this covered, I was just wondering if you had a stance since you have been posting this stuff.
 
The Matrix

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Lol, thx. We have this covered, I was just wondering if you had a stance since you have been posting this stuff.

Since posting this stuff and bring it to attention of medical professionals in my area. They are now being proactive and spreading the world around to other practioners. If there was not validity or concern about this then Dr's would not have had such a proactive response. I posted it on well respected medical forums and word is getting passed along. Look at the response, it prompted on subtemp Dr...
 
DAdams91982

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I am trying to find this study linking the two definitively but all I can find are refernces on vaccination alarmist websites. Do you have a link directly to a reputable print company with this reviewed study?

I am also trying to find you as a leader in these articles about the recent find in gene mutations: http://healthland.time.com/2012/04/05/autism-studies-confirm-genetic-complexity-and-risk-for-older-fathers/

That references age and genetic predisposition for the genetic mutation.

Lastly, only advocacy groups are the ones making the link.. the international medical community has blatantly rejected the notion.

Side interesting read: http://www.babycenter.com/0_vaccines-and-autism-separating-fact-from-fiction_1470554.bc
 

kisaj

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Since posting this stuff and bring it to attention of medical professionals in my area. They are now being proactive and spreading the world around to other practioners. If there was not validity or concern about this then Dr's would not have had such a proactive response. I posted it on well respected medical forums and word is getting passed along. Look at the response, it prompted on subtemp Dr...
I'm sure you are a great guy and good at what you do, but are you seriously trying to tell us that you are finding biased articles and giving them to real doctors- who are then spreading the word?

Please post the sites you are getting the positive response on, I want to read what people are saying. If these are sites that are just saying don't vaccinate, then so be it. I am just interested in both sides. Obviously, I am pro vaccination with a modified schedule. That kind of puts us in the middle of a lot of people, so I like to read both sides.
 
The Matrix

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I'm sure you are a great guy and good at what you do, but are you seriously trying to tell us that you are finding biased articles and giving them to real doctors- who are then spreading the word?

Please post the sites you are getting the positive response on, I want to read what people are saying. If these are sites that are just saying don't vaccinate, then so be it. I am just interested in both sides. Obviously, I am pro vaccination with a modified schedule. That kind of puts us in the middle of a lot of people, so I like to read both sides.
I am not giving them articles People twist things around read into things. I just brought it to the attention of medical professionals people found with this mutation as well as their children are a greater chance of developing issues down the road (CVD, heart disease,neurological ect..). The Dr is the one who does the research and made the determination from there. You are missing the whole point, its no pro or against vaccination. Its about having vaccination schedule spread out over a specific duration of time when they have this mutation present to prevent mercury overload for the child, When it comes to parents they are like "just do what the Dr saids" never knowing they have a choice and not being informed. Dr's get so busy seeing patients, at the end of the day they want to go home and relax. Last thing they want to do is go on line to watch a 2 hour webinar of some medical subject. To stay up on top of everything coming out from all angles is like ajob and half itself. I found out about this gene about 6 years ago, by dumb luck studying schizophrenia which my RBC EFA profile represented and finding out I had a homocysteine levels of 3.5 which to a DR is excellent. The real fact it was more dangerous then high homocysteine levels. Women who have multiple drop pregency are at higher risk for having this mutation. I have worked cases in the past with multiple miscarriages dr's could not explain why, I had them test MTHFR Bingo.. Once correcting the mutation along with Dr close supervision she went on to concieve their first child. It was never the hormones, but something out side. All expected mothers I am recommending having hair analysis and proper blood work looking for mutations and other nutritional deficiency..
 

kisaj

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I am not giving them articles People twist things around read into things. I just brought it to the attention of medical professionals people found with this mutation as well as their children are a greater chance of developing issues down the road (CVD, heart disease,neurological ect..). The Dr is the one who does the research and made the determination from there. You are missing the whole point, its no pro or against vaccination. Its about having vaccination schedule spread out over a specific duration of time when they have this mutation present to prevent mercury overload for the child, When it comes to parents they are like "just do what the Dr saids" never knowing they have a choice and not being informed. Dr's get so busy seeing patients, at the end of the day they want to go home and relax. Last thing they want to do is go on line to watch a 2 hour webinar of some medical subject. To stay up on top of everything coming out from all angles is like ajob and half itself. I found out about this gene about 6 years ago, by dumb luck studying schizophrenia which my RBC EFA profile represented and finding out I had a homocysteine levels of 3.5 which to a DR is excellent. The real fact it was more dangerous then high homocysteine levels. Women who have multiple drop pregency are at higher risk for having this mutation. I have worked cases in the past with multiple miscarriages dr's could not explain why, I had them test MTHFR Bingo.. Once correcting the mutation along with Dr close supervision she went on to concieve their first child. It was never the hormones, but something out side. All expected mothers I am recommending having hair analysis and proper blood work looking for mutations and other nutritional deficiency..
Thank you- I knew there was a stance in there somewhere. It is what we did and it is fairly common with all the pediatricians we interviewed around here. They seem to really believe that the modified schedule is the way to go and are supportive of parents that want to do this.
 
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