Fist Time Deca Cycle.

Joedub86

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I’m about to start my first Deca cycle. I was thinking of starting at 300mg per week, but wondering if I should go up to 600mg to see the best results. I will also be on Test and Dbol. Thanks.
 
Renew1

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I’m about to start my first Deca cycle. I was thinking of starting at 300mg per week, but wondering if I should go up to 600mg to see the best results. I will also be on Test and Dbol. Thanks.
You may have already mentioned this ....
Have you ran NPP before?
Did you already purchase the Deca?
 

Whisky

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You may have already mentioned this ....
Have you ran NPP before?
Did you already purchase the Deca?
to add to that, have you run dbol before?
What’s your cycle history?

just trying to understand how many of these are new compounds and what doses you are used to?

higher test and dbol is likely going to produce a lot of estrogen

deca could raise prolactin

you’ll need to have an understanding of how you react to most of what are running to dial in supports for the deca really
 

Joedub86

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You may have already mentioned this ....
Have you ran NPP before?
Did you already purchase the Deca?
NPP? If it’s Deca, then no I haven’t run it before. And yes I’ve already purchased it.
 
Renew1

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NPP? If it’s Deca, then no I haven’t run it before. And yes I’ve already purchased it.
Well, it isn't Deca (only Deca is Deca).
But it is Nandrolone.
And many guys find it preferable to Deca (especially in terms of sides).
Especially for less experienced users.

You should do some research on it.

(y)
 
sloganslimms

sloganslimms

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You may have already mentioned this ....
Have you ran NPP before?
Did you already purchase the Deca?
We're you asking this because you think someone should try NPP first, or perhaps you prefer NPP? Just picking your brain. I ordered an NPP/Deca blend because it was on sale and have never run a nandralone before. Not trying to take away from the OP's questions. I'm just getting opinions on nandralones.
 
Renew1

Renew1

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We're you asking this because you think someone should try NPP first, or perhaps you prefer NPP? Just picking your brain. I ordered an NPP/Deca blend because it was on sale and have never run a nandralone before. Not trying to take away from the OP's questions. I'm just getting opinions on nandralones.
Yeah, the majority opinion is that guys would be better off trying NPP first.
Many prefer NPP to Deca (although certainly not all)
 
Renew1

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We're you asking this because you think someone should try NPP first, or perhaps you prefer NPP? Just picking your brain. I ordered an NPP/Deca blend because it was on sale and have never run a nandralone before. Not trying to take away from the OP's questions. I'm just getting opinions on nandralones.
NPP comes with fewer sides.
And because it is a shorter ester, if it causes problems, it won't be in your system for a long time.
 
sloganslimms

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NPP comes with fewer sides.
And because it is a shorter ester, if it causes problems, it won't be in your system for a long time.
Hindsight is always 20/20. But I got a smoking good deal on 30 ampules of a 300mg blend of (100 NPP/200 Deca). This cycle is a ways away and this question ties in to the OP's question. What's a good starting dose? Could I get away with 2 x a week pinning?
 
Renew1

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Hindsight is always 20/20. But I got a smoking good deal on 30 ampules of a 300mg blend of (100 NPP/200 Deca). This cycle is a ways away and this question ties in to the OP's question. What's a good starting dose? Could I get away with 2 x a week pinning?
You'd probably get better advice on the specifics from @Hyde , or @Nac , or .....
 

Joedub86

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Well, it isn't Deca (only Deca is Deca).
But it is Nandrolone.
And many guys find it preferable to Deca (especially in terms of sides).
Especially for less experienced users.

You should do some research on it.

(y)
This doesn’t really answer my question. What’s a good starting dose?
 
Renew1

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This doesn’t really answer my question. What’s a good starting dose?
If you're talking about for Deca, wait a few minutes, and you'll get some good dosage recommendations.
... As well as some more NPP suggestions.
I tagged a couple of good guys to your thread.
(You're welcome).
 
StarScream66

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I'm on Deca right now at 300mg every two weeks for a homebrew cruise of TRT along with Sustanon. IMO, from my personal experience, a steroid cycle should always have testosterone as a base. 600mg a week of Deca along with 500mg a week of test e or c would be ideal.

Although, the pros back in the 70s used Deca/Dbol cycles and blew up on them, but health wise it's not the best idea. Including testosterone in a cycle is going to provide the best base for keeping your libido up, and everything else under the sun.


 

Whisky

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Just for clarify (I know @Renew knows this but the way the questions have been phased I just want to clarify).

both npp and ‘deca’ are nandrolone. Deca is just the name of the ester (same as testosterone decanoate for example, this is nandrolone decanoate - just over the years deca became used to mean nandrolone decanoate)

they are the same compound, npp has a half life of 2 days approx whereas ‘deca’ is 6-8 days.

lots of guys report fewer sides with the shorter ester and as renew says, it’ll leave your system quicker if you do struggle with it. Personally I like deca and don’t suffer any sides.

as for doses, it’s the same compound so your weekly dose will be the same, you’d just need to pin smaller amounts of npp eod (or daily) rather than 2 larger amounts of deca twice a week - but the weekly total will be the same.

a decent starter dose would be 300mg per week (with 300mg of test - 1:1 ratio with test seems to help swerve deca dick)

if you’d run it before and are happy managing the sides then 500:500 or 600:600 would be a solid bulking amount imo. BUT I wouldn’t (and didn’t myself) use that amount or close to it straight out the gate.
 
StarScream66

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Just for clarify (I know @Renew knows this but the way the questions have been phased I just want to clarify).

both npp and ‘deca’ are nandrolone. Deca is just the name of the ester (same as testosterone decanoate for example, this is nandrolone decanoate - just over the years deca became used to mean nandrolone decanoate)

they are the same compound, npp has a half life of 2 days approx whereas ‘deca’ is 6-8 days.
NPP seems to be a very in vogue drug at the moment, and I don't necessarily agree that it's a better alternative than longer esterfied nandrolone. For one thing, you're a pin cushion when you're using NPP as you have to inject it multiple times a week. Not to mention those shorter esters are painful.

Sure, it will give you leaner gains, but you're going to drop that water weight from nandrolone deconate once you come off it. If you wanted a lean gain cycle and didn't mind being a pin cushion, you could stack NPP with test propionate and inject them together (both of these esters are quite painful at the injection site, I might add, and the pain lasts for several days). Throw in Winstrol (which, for some reason, is no longer an in vogue drug but is quite a potent lean muscle builder as it is a DHT derivative, and blocks the progesterone receptor which nandrolone is known to activate) and you'd have a very lean mass cycle that wouldn't add much size but the strength gains and lean mass would stick.

I think the longer esters are just fine and weekly injections are just more convenient than the shorter esters you have to inject multiple times throughout the week.
 

Whisky

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NPP seems to be a very in vogue drug at the moment, and I don't necessarily agree that it's a better alternative than longer esterfied nandrolone. For one thing, you're a pin cushion when you're using NPP as you have to inject it multiple times a week. Not to mention those shorter esters are painful.

Sure, it will give you leaner gains, but you're going to drop that water weight from nandrolone deconate once you come off it. If you wanted a lean gain cycle and didn't mind being a pin cushion, you could stack NPP with test propionate and inject them together (both of these esters are quite painful at the injection site, I might add, and the pain lasts for several days). Throw in Winstrol (which, for some reason, is no longer an in vogue drug but is quite a potent lean muscle builder as it is a DHT derivative, and blocks the progesterone receptor which nandrolone is known to activate) and you'd have a very lean mass cycle that wouldn't add much size but the strength gains and lean mass would stick.

I think the longer esters are just fine and weekly injections are just more convenient than the shorter esters you have to inject multiple times throughout the week.
yeah I agree. The big ole boys back in the day used to do just great off deca (which I personally find magical for my joints, makes training heavy much easier).

I don’t mind pinning eod on an 8 week cut in summer when keeping the water down helps with seeing progress etc (and when you want the top off more anyway) but not on a bulk (plus scar tissue does build up over time).

weird you should mention winny, I know for some the joints would hurt but I never found that (always ran peptides with it) but it’s a good strength and lean size oral like you say. Strange how no one runs it anymore really
 
StarScream66

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weird you should mention winny, I know for some the joints would hurt but I never found that (always ran peptides with it) but it’s a good strength and lean size oral like you say. Strange how no one runs it anymore really
Yeah, I don't know why it's popularity went away. I think people like more potent stuff like Superdrol more than Winny and it's also a bit pricey, but you really only need 25mg a day. I think the joint thing wouldn't be a problem if you ran Winny with Deca since Deca is lubing the joints. You would only want to run it for 6 weeks though since it is a methylated compound.
 
Hyde

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Hindsight is always 20/20. But I got a smoking good deal on 30 ampules of a 300mg blend of (100 NPP/200 Deca). This cycle is a ways away and this question ties in to the OP's question. What's a good starting dose? Could I get away with 2 x a week pinning?
I have never used either. BUT I would say I hear most start out with nandrolones around 3-400mg/wk. Because your blend is more of the decanoate ester-bound, it has less actual nandrolone per 300mg than straight NPP would (shorter esters mean more active mg). The same as you get a bit more test in your system by using prop instead of cypionate ester. So that would push me towards using 400mg (1.33 cc/ml per week), assuming you are comfy using 3-400mg test/wk also. You are going to want to take shots every 3rd day due to the NPP though. Maybe twice per week could be gotten away with - you would have to experiment and see if you felt like levels were fluctuating too much.

People freak out about splitting up the doses for even blood levels all the time, but if anything the research points towards undulating blood levels actually promoting slightly more growth - you don’t need to be 100% even every single day; that’s not how the body normally works hormonally. And NPP has 2.7 day half life, so after that period there is still half of the og amount present in your blood.

Again, no expert, just my thought process for if/when I try it.
 
StarScream66

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On a completely unrelated side note, the history of Winstrol and Dianabol are both fascinating subjects. I happened upon this book when I found this free book library, and it's an epub entitled "Story of Dianabol (Methandrostenolone) The Steroid that Changed the Face of Sports"


Anabolic Doc also goes over the history of Winstrol in his video on YT.

 
StarScream66

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I have never used either. BUT I would say I hear most start out with nandrolones around 3-400mg/wk. Because your blend is more of the decanoate ester-bound, it has less actual nandrolone per 300mg than straight NPP would (shorter esters mean more active mg). .........

In theory, NPP and test prop would be ideal, but like I mentioned, the real world issue of pinning so often and the pain from these esters just make it and unpleasant combination to run.
 
StarScream66

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Speaking of Winstrol...

 

pracata

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You will see some gains at 300mg but I suggest you go for 400mg . 400mg would
Be a really good first deca cycle
 

pracata

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Throw in Winstrol (which, for some reason, is no longer an in vogue drug but is quite a potent lean muscle builder as it is a DHT derivative, and blocks the progesterone receptor which nandrolone is known to activate) and you'd have a very lean mass cycle that wouldn't add much size but the strength gains and lean mass would stick.
I’ve never tried winstrol and I didn’t know it blocked progesterone receptors

do you know of any other DHT compounds that block the progesterone receptors?

I have epiandro on hand and I was thinking about stacking it with my test/deca cycle.
You think epiandro would be a good idea since it’s dht?
 
Renew1

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I’ve never tried winstrol and I didn’t know it blocked progesterone receptors

do you know of any other DHT compounds that block the progesterone receptors?

I have epiandro on hand and I was thinking about stacking it with my test/deca cycle.
You think epiandro would be a good idea since it’s dht?
Honestly brother, on a Deca cycle, I'd have Caber on standby (and of course have an AI).

It is possible that Winny would help a little, but you definitely can't count on it.
 
CATdiesel76

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I wouldn’t do anymore than 300mg especially first run. I did 150mg of underdosed deca and put on tons of size and mass and this was after 12 years of training. 600mg is a really high dose for the beginners. 600mg is probably the most anyone should use no matter their experience. Not to mention the effects on cardiac tissue it’s associated with.
 

pracata

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Honestly brother, on a Deca cycle, I'd have Caber on standby (and of course have an AI).

It is possible that Winny would help a little, but you definitely can't count on it.
I already have cabar and AI and I’m also on TRT

I’ve done deca and NPP before but never have done winstrol

I do have 2 bottles of epiandro but have never tried it with deca before .
 

pracata

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I wouldn’t do anymore than 300mg especially first run. I did 150mg of underdosed deca and put on tons of size and mass and this was after 12 years of training. 600mg is a really high dose for the beginners. 600mg is probably the most anyone should use no matter their experience. Not to mention the effects on cardiac tissue it’s associated with.
For my first deca run I did 200mg and I did see some nice lean gains
 
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Nac

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Hindsight is always 20/20. But I got a smoking good deal on 30 ampules of a 300mg blend of (100 NPP/200 Deca). This cycle is a ways away and this question ties in to the OP's question. What's a good starting dose? Could I get away with 2 x a week pinning?
Id be inclined to dose 1.5ml per week. Two pins per week is pushing it a little, 3 would be ideal I think. Ive pinned NPP, and deca, everyday, e2d, e3d, etc, and cant say Ive noticed any difference to be honest. But 3x would be a safer bet than 2x in terms of reducing potential sides.
 

UNX

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In theory, NPP and test prop would be ideal, but like I mentioned, the real world issue of pinning so often and the pain from these esters just make it and unpleasant combination to run.
I research NPP long time ago and found no mention about PIP. I just hope it to be milder than test prop.
 
sloganslimms

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Id be inclined to dose 1.5ml per week. Two pins per week is pushing it a little, 3 would be ideal I think. Ive pinned NPP, and deca, everyday, e2d, e3d, etc, and cant say Ive noticed any difference to be honest. But 3x would be a safer bet than 2x in terms of reducing potential sides.
That sounds good... .5 mL mon/wed/fri. And I'll just split up my test cyp to 200 mg each day too. That'll put my ratio of test/nandralone to 600mg/450mg per week. I've never taken a nandralone before and I'm not real sure how to take caber. Ive heard that keeping you estrogen under control is the biggest part of it, which I feel pretty confident doing... but never had to control progesterone.
 

Whisky

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That sounds good... .5 mL mon/wed/fri. And I'll just split up my test cyp to 200 mg each day too. That'll put my ratio of test/nandralone to 600mg/450mg per week. I've never taken a nandralone before and I'm not real sure how to take caber. Ive heard that keeping you estrogen under control is the biggest part of it, which I feel pretty confident doing... but never had to control progesterone.
when you start lactating from the nips it’s time for caber 👌
 
Hyde

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That sounds good... .5 mL mon/wed/fri. And I'll just split up my test cyp to 200 mg each day too. That'll put my ratio of test/nandralone to 600mg/450mg per week. I've never taken a nandralone before and I'm not real sure how to take caber. Ive heard that keeping you estrogen under control is the biggest part of it, which I feel pretty confident doing... but never had to control progesterone.
Caber covers you for about 5 days per dose. 0.25mg every 4 days is where to start ideally, although if you have tiny 1mg tabs like me you will have to use more because you won’t be able to split them smaller. I do 0.5mg e6d currently on 400mg dien e.

when you start lactating from the nips it’s time for caber
Lol OP please know this is a joke and you definitely want to use it before lactation. Once the glad forms it will be much easier to aggravate again than if you don’t wait until you are able to squeeze out any clear fluid. Speaking directly from experience.

If you are using enough AI and still getting swelling/size increase that P5P isn’t stopping, you need to take it. You also need to take it if you are struggling to cum/orgasm (assuming you would like to do so).
 

Whisky

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Caber covers you for about 5 days per dose. 0.25mg every 4 days is where to start ideally, although if you have tiny 1mg tabs like me you will have to use more because you won’t be able to split them smaller. I do 0.5mg e6d currently on 400mg dien e.



Lol OP please know this is a joke and you definitely want to use it before lactation. Once the glad forms it will be much easier to aggravate again than if you don’t wait until you are able to squeeze out any clear fluid. Speaking directly from experience.

If you are using enough AI and still getting swelling/size increase that P5P isn’t stopping, you need to take it. You also need to take it if you are struggling to cum/orgasm (assuming you would like to do so).
haha, yeah to confirm I was joking OP......lactation is a little late in the day.

I personally use 0.5mg caber 1x per week on deca just to keep a handle on prolactin (and I enjoy producing an ungodly amount of cum 👍)
 
sloganslimms

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Caber covers you for about 5 days per dose. 0.25mg every 4 days is where to start ideally, although if you have tiny 1mg tabs like me you will have to use more because you won’t be able to split them smaller. I do 0.5mg e6d currently on 400mg dien e.



Lol OP please know this is a joke and you definitely want to use it before lactation. Once the glad forms it will be much easier to aggravate again than if you don’t wait until you are able to squeeze out any clear fluid. Speaking directly from experience.

If you are using enough AI and still getting swelling/size increase that P5P isn’t stopping, you need to take it. You also need to take it if you are struggling to cum/orgasm (assuming you would like to do so).
20 x (1mg) caber tablets ordered and on the way... But of course I started browsing and ordered a whole bunch more **** too. I'm worse than a 5 year old in the check out line at the supermarket.
I ordered 40 mL of dihydroboldenone too. Wtf is wrong with me? I've got a problem.
 
Hyde

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20 x (1mg) caber tablets ordered and on the way... But of course I started browsing and ordered a whole bunch more **** too. I'm worse than a 5 year old in the check out line at the supermarket.
I ordered 40 mL of dihydroboldenone too. Wtf is wrong with me? I've got a problem.
Have you ever used 1-test? It can have some bite based on the handful of shots I took. You will want to break up the welts with some tissue work if you get deposits at the oil depot site.
 
sloganslimms

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Have you ever used 1-test? It can have some bite based on the handful of shots I took. You will want to break up the welts with some tissue work if you get deposits at the oil depot site.
No... I've never even heard of it before yesterday. But it looked intriguing and so I bought some. Might've gotten a lil carried away. I just started a thread asking for experiences and advice on it.
 
StarScream66

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I research NPP long time ago and found no mention about PIP. I just hope it to be milder than test prop.
The PIP from NPP is definitely there. All short esters are a pain in the ass, literally.

when you start lactating from the nips it’s time for caber 👌
Progesterone can't cause gyno without estrogen being present. So, just a simple SERM like 10-20mg of Nolva would work fine as preventative measure.

Also, like I mentioned, Winny blocks the progesterone receptor.
 

Whisky

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The PIP from NPP is definitely there. All short esters are a pain in the ass, literally.



Progesterone can't cause gyno without estrogen being present. So, just a simple SERM like 10-20mg of Nolva would work fine as preventative measure.

Also, like I mentioned, Winny blocks the progesterone receptor.
i was kinda joking about waiting for the lactation bro......

I try to let my estrogen run as high as possible on cycle to reap the benefits of that but from memory nolva specifically binds to the breast tissue so I get the logic behind it. Personally I’m ok with low dosing asin and caber to achieve the same outcome though.
 
Hyde

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Progesterone can't cause gyno without estrogen being present. So, just a simple SERM like 10-20mg of Nolva would work fine as preventative measure.
I know this sounds great on paper, I wanted to believe it. But you are wrong. Nolva or another SERM, or DHT, will help. Definitely. But I am living breathing currently using proof that’s just not the ticket.

Maybe to create the gland initially, that I can buy. Because my right nipple doesn’t have any kind of prolactin sensitivity like the left, which has a gland from Mk677 years ago when they pushed all that **** out and nobody talked about it’s effects on prolactin then.

Anyway, specifically the left glad begins to swell obviously when the caber wears off. This on 60mg Ralox nightly and 22mg exemestane split twice a week with only 200 test e/wk. So estrogen is more than managed and blocked. Dienelone acting on the PR and raising prolactin is the only remaining means to aggravate that gyno.
 
Nac

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The PIP from NPP is definitely there. All short esters are a pain in the ass, literally.
I research NPP long time ago and found no mention about PIP. I just hope it to be milder than test prop.
The only short ester that has given me issues is bold cyp. Cyp is typically not considered a short ester, but relative to bolds usual ester undec it is I guess.

Ive run NPP, test, mast, tren, trest, etc as acetates/props and never had PIP from them.
 
Nac

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So, new MPMD video: study (in vitro lol) "shows" supplementing vit d3 whilst running a course of nandrolone decanoate will improve its safety profile (reduce adrogenic activity in prostate) AND increase muscle cell proliferation or something or other.
 
Burnfire

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I love me some NPP and deca for sure. Never had an issue with sides just made sure my e2 was in line and took vitamin b6
 
sloganslimms

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So, new MPMD video: study (in vitro lol) "shows" supplementing vit d3 whilst running a course of nandrolone decanoate will improve its safety profile (reduce adrogenic activity in prostate) AND increase muscle cell proliferation or something or other.
Can you link the study? Is it really worth supplementing?
 
Nac

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Can you link the study? Is it really worth supplementing?
I only found an abstract, and I only watched 15mins of Dereks vid. Keep in mind this was an in vitro study, so no practical doses were used; the researchers may have made some recommendations in the study text but it wasnt in the abstract.

Vit d3 (and K2) is potentially beneficial for other reasons so there could be an argument made for "you should be supplementing with it anyway", so I mean any other possible benefits in conjunction with AAS use would be a convenient coincidence.
 

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I only found an abstract, and I only watched 15mins of Dereks vid. Keep in mind this was an in vitro study, so no practical doses were used; the researchers may have made some recommendations in the study text but it wasnt in the abstract.

Vit d3 (and K2) is potentially beneficial for other reasons so there could be an argument made for "you should be supplementing with it anyway", so I mean any other possible benefits in conjunction with AAS use would be a convenient coincidence.
i supplement with them both anyway so it was handy to hear that’s probably got that added benefit
 
StarScream66

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I know this sounds great on paper, I wanted to believe it. But you are wrong. Nolva or another SERM, or DHT, will help. Definitely. But I am living breathing currently using proof that’s just not the ticket.

Maybe to create the gland initially, that I can buy. Because my right nipple doesn’t have any kind of prolactin sensitivity like the left, which has a gland from Mk677 years ago when they pushed all that **** out and nobody talked about it’s effects on prolactin then.

Anyway, specifically the left glad begins to swell obviously when the caber wears off. This on 60mg Ralox nightly and 22mg exemestane split twice a week with only 200 test e/wk. So estrogen is more than managed and blocked. Dienelone acting on the PR and raising prolactin is the only remaining means to aggravate that gyno.
I got gyno when I was 18 from taking a DHEA and herbal testosterone boosting supplement, so I know how awful it feels.

Did you get gyno from nandrolone? If so, I appreciate the information.

I only found an abstract,
If you have the abstract and want me to pull up the full study, just give me a Pubmed link or whatever and I'll find it. Or you could find it! :)

 
Hyde

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I got gyno when I was 18 from taking a DHEA and herbal testosterone boosting supplement, so I know how awful it feels.

Did you get gyno from nandrolone? If so, I appreciate the information.
Actually, I got gyno from being pretty fat when I went through puberty at only 10 years old. Then later on herbal junk like tribulus & eventually cycling designer steroids and PCT, even with AI & SERM use, that’s still a learning curve. Plus bodyfat going back up some as I pursued strength.

Then I got a titty reduction in ‘15, which made a massive improvement (worth $6k all day), but what people who have never had gyno surgery don’t usually know is they can’t remove everything (unless you are shredded) because there has to be tissue to contour so your nipples aren’t sunken craters. That means you still have some gyno tissue after, which is much more responsive to hormonal fluxing than if you had none.

Fast forward to ‘16, MK is hot, sounds great, just take this crap year round. Except I am prolactin sensitive, and over time this stuff jacks that up, and I get a small but proper gland again in the left side.

The cool thing about having a spot of gyno is that it’s extremely easy to understand if your levels/balance are a problem - you instantly know if you need more AI, caber, etc. The bad thing about a bit of gyno is it’s needy - you end up needing more drugs to keep it tiny and happy.
 

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The PIP from NPP is definitely there. All short esters are a pain in the ass, literally.



Progesterone can't cause gyno without estrogen being present. So, just a simple SERM like 10-20mg of Nolva would work fine as preventative measure.

Also, like I mentioned, Winny blocks the progesterone receptor.
50 mg/ml tren ace at least up to 0.5ml per shot that i used is completely painless, but it only contains 2% BA as far as solvents go.

but damn 0.5 ml of that 4x a week with 250 test blows just 500 test out of the water, gains twice as fast, srs.


npp is 100 mg/ml usually afaik

pip depends on solvents used, drug concentration, whether you hit sth etc etc
 
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