First powerlifting cycle

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OK guys the stay at home stir crazy has hit, so I figured I'd start up a discussion. I'm getting closer to considering running my first cycle. My main focus is strength and size is a welcome side effect of whatever I take. There's quite a few compounds I've studied and gotten some firsthand advice on what would be best. I'm gonna post up some of these *roughly* in order of highest to lowest likelihood and a little bit of what I'm thinking about each. Any advice and/or firsthand experience is very welcome.
1.) Anavar, obviously a slam dunk for a mild first cycle and great for strength. Cons are expensive and difficult to source and often counterfeited with winny which I don't wanna risk the joint/tendon issues. If I could find a legit source this would be probably my top choice. (This is not any form of attempting to source just a statement).
2.) Pmag/Mecha, from everything I've read these are almost the same as halodrol in sides but a little more androgenic and seem to be slightly more associated with strength. Sources aren't uncommon and its reasonably affordable. Halodrol could be substituted.
3.) The Andros,1,4,epi. Low in sides but also limited in results compared to a one step precursor or straight hormone. The big downside however is the cost to dose properly and the only real upside over any of these is the real legality it seems. There's some big fans of epiandro on here so if I ran any it would likely be that. Also some reasonably priced Epi's from board sponsors.
4.) Msten, obviously a very strong compound but generally regarded as a lower side effect steroid of its strength level. One of my mentors suggested this at a low dose (starting at 12mg or so and for 4 weeks) because other than liver toxicity the rest of the sides are easily manageable at low dose. The semi-legal status makes sourcing high quality and properly dosed msten easy compared to others. Not my first choice but also not my last choice.
5.) Mdiaz, seems to be compared to anavar a lot but firsthand accounts are very all over the place in terms of results. Some love it some hate it just like hexadrone from everything I can find.
I'm sure there's a few big ones people will mention for strength, anadrol, dbol, or dmz, but I'd prefer to stick with a drier compound and have less weight yoyo-ing. For dry compounds Epi seems promising but the joint issues seem very prevalant which is a downside. Any suggestions or firsthand experiences are welcome and I'm not set on any of these in concrete or planning on this in the immediate future with the COVID shutdowns in effect. Obviously a full PCT will be acquired and cycle support supplements for liver and blood pressure and what not. I'm temporarily ruling out sarms because of the unknown long term effects and the fact that the sides seem on par with a lot of c17aa steroids.
 

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Would you consider pinning Test or are you looking for an oral only cycle? The reason I ask is because Test would generally tick all the boxes in terms of a low side effect cycle to boost strength and keep you feelingng good, joints and all.

Of the compounds you've mentioned I've actually only ran Msten & Halodrol. I really enjoyed Msten but wouldn't recommend it for a first cycle, not based on side effects but I would look for something milder. Halodrol might be more suitable but I personally can't hack it for more than a few weeks without a Test base. Could pair it with dermacrine if you don't want to pin?
 

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Out of those you’ve listed I’d probably go msten. I’d want someone Like 4-ad to take the edge of anything (aside from var which if legit would be sound solo and probably the best option). I’m obviously assuming you won’t pin.....

slightly more controversial option......LOW DOSE sdrol.....now before I get shot down I’m talking 5 or at most 10mg a day.

that would mitigate a lot of the sides and would still give strength gains over and above anything else (I also think at that dose the toxicity is likely no worse than any of the others at normal doses.
 
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@RusTLad I have nothing against pinning but for quite a few reasons I'm leaning towards an oral first cycle. In the future I'd very much like to try NPP but that's a different topic. Halodrol and dermacrine is a cycle that most people seem to love when they try it. What were your strength gains like? I've seen a couple cycle logs where people had very decent size gains but noted a lackluster strength gain. Obviously not the most common result but a little off-putting nonetheless.
 
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@Whisky This is very interesting, I've done a lot of research and never heard anything bad about superdrol at 10mg. I believe @Matthersby is an advocate of this and if I'm not mistaken @Mathb33 had a thread on this too. I wouldn't be opposed to this but figured I might get flamed for the idea for a first cycle. Maybe these guys will chip in with some experience and shed light on an interesting proposition.
Now on msten I've heard various things about a test base. Obviously it wont hurt but a few firsthand testimonies have said that even with a test base the "shutdown" feeling is still present. I'd probably run dermacrine or some sort of base with anything I ran. I definitely like the availability of high quality Msten which makes it a pretty high option.
 

Mathb33

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Quite a hard one to answer since it’s your first cycle. I’m really not a big fan of the andros I think they’re a big waste of money but I don’t blame people running them to defend it since it’s the only thing they are willing to do it’s logical they will defend it. I would say 10mg superdrol is a wonderful idea and ones I’ll keep doing in the future but not quite sure you should go there for a first cycle... or maybe. Msten 20mg is generally quite user friendly for its strength although some often forget to realise how toxic it is to lipids and liver, most definitely as toxic as superdrol imo. Why not try something a LITTLE more friendly user like dmz for a first cycle? At a conservative dose?
 
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@Mathb33 I agree on the Andros for the most part from everything I've found compared to other options. Like I said the only big plus is the legality. Dmz is definitely an option I just have two mild concerns the first being it seems blood pressure is a major concern compared to other compounds, but hawthorne berry and garlic could be taken too. The second being that dmz seems to be a little wetter and some people have reported bloat. Obviously I'm not an expert and I completely respect your opinion so I'd be open to this as an option. The person who suggested Msten suggested starting at 12mg and going up to 14,16, 18 and taken with cycle support and tudca. Again not trying to second guess your opinion just curious on your thoughts.
 

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@Mathb33 I agree on the Andros for the most part from everything I've found compared to other options. Like I said the only big plus is the legality. Dmz is definitely an option I just have two mild concerns the first being it seems blood pressure is a major concern compared to other compounds, but hawthorne berry and garlic could be taken too. The second being that dmz seems to be a little wetter and some people have reported bloat. Obviously I'm not an expert and I completely respect your opinion so I'd be open to this as an option. The person who suggested Msten suggested starting at 12mg and going up to 14,16, 18 and taken with cycle support and tudca. Again not trying to second guess your opinion just curious on your thoughts.
Msten used to be sold in like 4mg caps that enabled that kind of dosage. I haven’t seen that lately, typically they’re 10mg caps and 20 is what most people actually run.

As for DMZ, yeah it can bloat you a bit. It’s very glycogen hungry and you will add some water weight. It’s good for strength and size but it can get uncomfortable and it’s not that great aesthetics wise. I felt better on msten than on DMZ, but experience varies from person to person.
 
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Assuming no pinning, for a first cycle:

Halodrol or Methylclostebol (I had better results with Mbol) at 75-100mg for 6 weeks, perhaps with some Dermacrine throughout, & maybe a bottle of Gainbusters Swole Patrol 3AD taken the last 4 weeks (this greatly aids energy & libido, and some more gains).

Yeah you could do DMZ or Msten, or other compounds, but Halo and Mag make great first cycle choices. Better to leave room to grow.

Don’t fall into the trap of cycling orals endlessly. Keep learning about oils because you will need them longterm if you want to make serious gains eventually.
 
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@jrock645 If I go with something strong I would most likely go with a liquid solution, as there's some reputable companies with Msten and superdrol liquids which would make dosing adjustments much easier. That's what I've heard about dmz but its good to get as many firsthand experiences as possible to make an educated decision. I think if I went with a milder compound than msten it would be hdrol or pmag instead of dmz because it seems more suited to what I'm looking for.
 

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@jrock645 If I go with something strong I would most likely go with a liquid solution, as there's some reputable companies with Msten and superdrol liquids which would make dosing adjustments much easier. That's what I've heard about dmz but its good to get as many firsthand experiences as possible to make an educated decision. I think if I went with a milder compound than msten it would be hdrol or pmag instead of dmz because it seems more suited to what I'm looking for.
which liquid solutions are you referring to? Cause the ones I’m aware of aren’t reputable at all.
 
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@Hyde Awesome to get your opinion! Definitely not interested in a lifetime of orals only, and I also want to leave room to grow. Happy to hear good things about mech/pmag as its one of the more interesting compounds to me. I considered 3ad and almost got some to run solo on the insane black Friday sale but it seems to be better as a stacker/base. Do you think running that alongside pmag and dermacrine would be beneficial or do you think it might be receptor overload for fresh androgen receptors?
 

Mathb33

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Msten can elevate your BP as much as dmz brother. I’m not quite sure why this thing is floating around that dmz is more prone to elevate BP than other methylated designers. msten and superdrol, just like M1A can hit your BP pretty fucking bad too. This sadly is genetics of each individual, added to current health situation and other point markers. Food also. There’s some good ways to control your BP on cycle too. Carditone is one fantastic way to keep it under control.
 

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Msten can elevate your BP as much as dmz brother. I’m not quite sure why this thing is floating around that dmz is more prone to elevate BP than other methylated designers. msten and superdrol, just like M1A can hit your BP pretty fucking bad too. This sadly is genetics of each individual, added to current health situation and other point markers. Food also. There’s some good ways to control your BP on cycle too. Carditone is one fantastic way to keep it under control.
only thing I can figure is all that extra water from the DMZ might make it a bit worse on BP. Just a shot in the dark.
 
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@Hyde Awesome to get your opinion! Definitely not interested in a lifetime of orals only, and I also want to leave room to grow. Happy to hear good things about mech/pmag as its one of the more interesting compounds to me. I considered 3ad and almost got some to run solo on the insane black Friday sale but it seems to be better as a stacker/base. Do you think running that alongside pmag and dermacrine would be beneficial or do you think it might be receptor overload for fresh androgen receptors?
I don’t think overload if you want to take it; but I also know how I feel and know I’d be better off for using 3AD. BUT there’s certainly plenty to be said for lowering variables and just taking Mechabol. Then you’ll REALLY understand what low test feels like and why it’s important
 

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If you can get a hold of quality Anavar that’ll be your best option as a first oral only cycle. The body will transform like no other with SD&Msten but for strength alone is no better drug that Anavar, plus it’s way milder than those others.
 
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only thing I can figure is all that extra water from the DMZ might make it a bit worse on BP. Just a shot in the dark.
This is what I had been told as well, that the extra water weight from DMZ or M1A would spike bp higher than superdrol or msten. Definitely agree that genetics play a massive role in anything hormone related but it *seems* from cycle logs that dmz has a much higher rate of high blood pressure than msten. Obviously I'll never know for myself until I give them a shot. I hope this doesn't come across as a cocky young guy thinking he knows everything purely just an observation from my research.
 
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BUT there’s certainly plenty to be said for lowering variables and just taking Mechabol. Then you’ll REALLY understand what low test feels like and why it’s important
Mecha and Dermacrine was definitely the plan, but I've never seen you give bad advice so 3ad stacked is surely worth looking into. I like that zoo was able to finally bring it to market after all this time.
 
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If you can get a hold of quality Anavar that’ll be your best option as a first oral only cycle. The body will transform like no other with SD&Msten but for strength alone is no better drug that Anavar, plus it’s way milder than those others.
That seems to be the consensus, I've got feelers out with a few people who might have a good source and if I find it I'll just hold onto it until I run it. In no hurry though with all the gyms closed. Don't want to run a cycle and waste it in my little home gym. The body transformation from msten certainly wouldn't be opposed but I would happily trade that for all the positives of anavar.
 

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@Whisky This is very interesting, I've done a lot of research and never heard anything bad about superdrol at 10mg. I believe @Matthersby is an advocate of this and if I'm not mistaken @Mathb33 had a thread on this too. I wouldn't be opposed to this but figured I might get flamed for the idea for a first cycle. Maybe these guys will chip in with some experience and shed light on an interesting proposition.
Now on msten I've heard various things about a test base. Obviously it wont hurt but a few firsthand testimonies have said that even with a test base the "shutdown" feeling is still present. I'd probably run dermacrine or some sort of base with anything I ran. I definitely like the availability of high quality Msten which makes it a pretty high option.
it’s definitely hard to recommend sdrol for a first cycle but low dose would fit your goals.

now I think on it some of my best strength gains came from test and tbol. Tbol is actually probably the best option by far IF you can get it legit......
 
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it’s definitely hard to recommend sdrol for a first cycle but low dose would fit your goals.
It definitely seems like the results would be there. There were plenty of people who took it for a first cycle when it was everywhere but it still might not be the smartest option. It’s quite tempting though because there may or may not be a new bottle of superdrol that my gym partner offered to me a while back that he’s still got if I want it 🤷🏼‍♂️ My only issue with tbol at all is that if I find a good source I may be tempted to buy anavar if they have it... What did you run the tbol at?
 

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@RusTLad I have nothing against pinning but for quite a few reasons I'm leaning towards an oral first cycle. In the future I'd very much like to try NPP but that's a different topic. Halodrol and dermacrine is a cycle that most people seem to love when they try it. What were your strength gains like? I've seen a couple cycle logs where people had very decent size gains but noted a lackluster strength gain. Obviously not the most common result but a little off-putting nonetheless.
I enjoyed Halodrol, strength gains were mild but I did seem to enjoy a boost in athletic performance. Also noticed a nice increase in muscle fulness, I think this was my second cycle.
 

Whisky

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It definitely seems like the results would be there. There were plenty of people who took it for a first cycle when it was everywhere but it still might not be the smartest option. It’s quite tempting though because there may or may not be a new bottle of superdrol that my gym partner offered to me a while back that he’s still got if I want it 🤷🏼‍♂️ My only issue with tbol at all is that if I find a good source I may be tempted to buy anavar if they have it... What did you run the tbol at?
tbol I ran at 50 ed for 8 weeks. Very few sides, good strength gains. I was very confident in the source (and it was very expensive)
 
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I enjoyed Halodrol, strength gains were mild but I did seem to enjoy a boost in athletic performance. Also noticed a nice increase in muscle fulness, I think this was my second cycle.
Some of the guys have reported very good strength increases at higher doses.

I never ran it high enough to experience that, so my strength increases were moderate.
 

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Don’t fall into the trap of cycling orals endlessly. Keep learning about oils because you will need them longterm if you want to make serious gains eventually.
[/QUOTE]
^^^ This 100% I agree
Good **** @Hyde
 
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Some of the guys have reported very good strength increases at higher doses.
This is definitely where its nice to have personal experiences to learn from. Unsure how running higher would effect the sides, seems like a lot of compounds drastically increase sides when going above the generally accepted dosing. Maybe it would stack well with 3ad like hyde said or stanogen? That might give some more dramatic strength compared to just mass and keep it mild.
 
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This is definitely where its nice to have personal experiences to learn from. Unsure how running higher would effect the sides, seems like a lot of compounds drastically increase sides when going above the generally accepted dosing. Maybe it would stack well with 3ad like hyde said or stanogen? That might give some more dramatic strength compared to just mass and keep it mild.
Yeah, you're right, generally speaking sides increase with dosage.
Halodrol stacked with Stanogen (It's one of my current favorites) should really increase strength, and should add some lean muscle
 
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I enjoyed Halodrol, strength gains were mild but I did seem to enjoy a boost in athletic performance. Also noticed a nice increase in muscle fulness, I think this was my second cycle.
I'm sure that is why its such a good beginner cycle because its mild and well rounded but I'm definitely looking for a bigger strength gain than mild. Maybe stacking with a dht of some sort like epi or something more androgenic would really help it shine there. Not opposed to that but would prefer a single active compound for my first cycle. Renew and hyde seem to like the idea though so I'm definitely not opposed to it, They absolutely know their **** and I'm not gonna second guess their knowledge
 
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I'm sure that is why its such a good beginner cycle because its mild and well rounded but I'm definitely looking for a bigger strength gain than mild. Maybe stacking with a dht of some sort like epi or something more androgenic would really help it shine there. Not opposed to that but would prefer a single active compound for my first cycle. Renew and hyde seem to like the idea though so I'm definitely not opposed to it, They absolutely know their **** and I'm not gonna second guess their knowledge
I ran it 75mg with 900mg epiandro for 6wks. I’m not sure what kind of strength gains you’re looking for but to give you an example
Incline went from 295x1 to 335x1
Ohp 185 to 205
Seated military I hit 275, never even tried anything over 225 but I was that confident
 
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I ran it 75mg with 900mg epiandro for 6wks. I’m not sure what kind of strength gains you’re looking for but to give you an example
Incline went from 295x1 to 335x1
Ohp 185 to 205
Seated military I hit 275, never even tried anything over 225 but I was that confident
thats definitely the strength I’m looking for. I’m hoping to get to and stay over a double body weight bench with all the weight I put on which shouldn’t be too hard hopefully. How much weight did you keep after all that?
 
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thats definitely the strength I’m looking for. I’m hoping to get to and stay over a double body weight bench with all the weight I put on which shouldn’t be too hard hopefully. How much weight did you keep after all that?
I kept about 6lb, however I leaned up a lot. I really wasn’t trying to bulk a lot. It was my first cycle in about a decade so it was kinda like my first all over again.
 
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I kept about 6lb, however I leaned up a lot. I really wasn’t trying to bulk a lot. It was my first cycle in about a decade so it was kinda like my first all over again.
That sounds pretty much like exactly what I’m looking for. I’m 160 or so right now and my max bench before quarantine was 300 but I had a little left in the tank. I thought I’d have a chance at 305 or 310 the next week but then the gyms closed 🤦‍♂️
 
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Concerning PEDs and strength: the neurological gains from more androgenic compounds only last as long as the drugs do. Treat them like nitrous for competition. Within a few weeks off cycle you’ll see it fall off. Anything you get from things like Epiandrosterone is strictly transient.

If this is just for building longterm progress, you need to focus on laying down actual new tissue. That’s what will still be around after the cycle wraps up. The gains from Anavar really fit best here. It causes excessive creatine storage that will cease, but the gains are lean, dry, and pretty permanent.

Lastly, turinabol, and likely Halodrol & Mechabol by extension, is the best for general athletic increase. Strongman, sprinting, etc. It’s been used by more Olympic athletes of different disciplines than probably any other oral. And these don’t cause as much waterweight gain as something like Dbol or DMZ (or maximal strength boost).
 
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Concerning PEDs and strength: the neurological gains from more androgenic compounds only last as long as the drugs do. Treat them like nitrous for competition. Within a few weeks off cycle you’ll see it fall off. Anything you get from things like Epiandrosterone is strictly transient.
I definitely agree with you in terms of running something like epi or halotestin solo with no increase in mass. Out of curiosity though would it not help you to maintain some extra strength post cycle if I added new tissue as well? I know that you can gain strength in existing muscle when the muscle matures. If I put on lets say five pounds of muscle with just halodrol alone and the same amount with halodrol and epi but I gain twice as much strength stacking them wouldn't that help keep a decent amount more strength post cycle getting the new muscle tissue used to heavier weight?
 
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I definitely agree with you in terms of running something like epi or halotestin solo with no increase in mass. Out of curiosity though would it not help you to maintain some extra strength post cycle if I added new tissue as well? I know that you can gain strength in existing muscle when the muscle matures. If I put on lets say five pounds of muscle with just halodrol alone and the same amount with halodrol and epi but I gain twice as much strength stacking them wouldn't that help keep a decent amount more strength post cycle getting the new muscle tissue used to heavier weight?
No, and yes - if the epiandro let you lift bigger weights on cycle due to CNS upregulation and energy in gym, you could theoretically build MORE muscle, so maybe you put on 6lbs of muscle with Epi+Halodrol instead of 5lbs solo. BUT after the combo cycle you’re probably going to see a bigger difference in strength drop off vs having never ran the DHT and going Halodrol solo still. There’s no getting around that comedown.

In general, the more drugs you take the more gains you can make (to a point), but what I’m saying is you need to consider what’s more short vs longterm beneficial to your specific goals.
 
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@Hyde so being a beginner would it be more beneficial in your opinion to just run only halo or Msten or whatever active compound alone with a base so I don’t have the yo-yo-ing in strength that an extra compound would add?Seems like that would be more beneficial to longevity and staying safer on joints and tendons.
 
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So it seems it’s down to halo, var, or Msten. If sourcing wasn’t an issue var hands down. Toss up between low dose Msten and halo still. No one has chimed in on Mdiaz and if no one on here has good things to say it’s probably not the *best* choice. As far as Andros not opposed to a 4andro base or epi stacker but may save epi for a pre contest cycle.
 
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@Hyde so being a beginner would it be more beneficial in your opinion to just run only halo or Msten or whatever active compound alone with a base so I don’t have the yo-yo-ing in strength that an extra compound would add?Seems like that would be more beneficial to longevity and staying safer on joints and tendons.
It’s not a big deal either way, just know why you are taking whatever you choose.

Halo/Mbol/Tbol or Var sound like best options for your first based on goals of general lean mass and keepable strength. With or without some epiandro or 3AD.
 
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It’s not a big deal either way, just know why you are taking whatever you choose.

Halo/Mbol/Tbol or Var sound like best options for your first based on goals of general lean mass and keepable strength. With or without some epiandro or 3AD.
Much appreciated, I love the amount of knowledge shared on this site. Depending on when this all blows over hopefully I'll get the chance to throw up a log in not too long. Not opposed to any new opinions if anyone has anything they'd like to add but it certainly seems there has been a general consensus reached over what would be best options.
 

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I'll go against the grain here and say I love the andros. It's definitely more expensive, but after running them 3x so far, i tend to keep almost all of my size gains and maybe 80-90% of the strength gains. 4ad didnt do much but make me look bloated and horny, but my favorite is 1 andro 330mg a day, epiandro 600mg preworkout, and androsterone at 300mg a day. Good strength, fullness and size if you eat right. That said, it has to be a good quality and none of these under dosed "100mg a day of 1 andro but we have such and such delivery system that enhances absorption." I have always ran super mandro and R-andro shred, with epiandro from either Vicious Labs or CEL. Recovery is also super easy. I've PCT'd with a clomid at 25/25/12.5/12.5 and most recently I experimented with an OTC PCT, using Mtest, anabolic effect, and True Shred. I wouldn't make an actual recommendation to not use a serm, but I feel jus as well recovered now as I did with using a serm. Libido and function are good, kept my strength and size, and overall feel great. Just my experience.
 
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I'll go against the grain here and say I love the andros. It's definitely more expensive, but after running them 3x so far, i tend to keep almost all of my size gains and maybe 80-90% of the strength gains. 4ad didnt do much but make me look bloated and horny, but my favorite is 1 andro 330mg a day, epiandro 600mg preworkout, and androsterone at 300mg a day. Good strength, fullness and size if you eat right. That said, it has to be a good quality and none of these under dosed "100mg a day of 1 andro but we have such and such delivery system that enhances absorption." I have always ran super mandro and R-andro shred, with epiandro from either Vicious Labs or CEL. Recovery is also super easy. I've PCT'd with a clomid at 25/25/12.5/12.5 and most recently I experimented with an OTC PCT, using Mtest, anabolic effect, and True Shred. I wouldn't make an actual recommendation to not use a serm, but I feel jus as well recovered now as I did with using a serm. Libido and function are good, kept my strength and size, and overall feel great. Just my experience.
I felt like I got some results from andros for a few cycles. But if you are doing the work over time and maintaining and slowly building successfully, what you will find is what was enough when you were smaller is simply not enough as you grow larger. And since you have limited conversion enzymes, you can’t really keep utilizing more Andros effectively.
 
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I'll go against the grain here and say I love the andros. It's definitely more expensive, but after running them 3x so far, i tend to keep almost all of my size gains and maybe 80-90% of the strength gains. 4ad didnt do much but make me look bloated and horny, but my favorite is 1 andro 330mg a day, epiandro 600mg preworkout, and androsterone at 300mg a day. Good strength, fullness and size if you eat right. That said, it has to be a good quality and none of these under dosed "100mg a day of 1 andro but we have such and such delivery system that enhances absorption." I have always ran super mandro and R-andro shred, with epiandro from either Vicious Labs or CEL. Recovery is also super easy. I've PCT'd with a clomid at 25/25/12.5/12.5 and most recently I experimented with an OTC PCT, using Mtest, anabolic effect, and True Shred. I wouldn't make an actual recommendation to not use a serm, but I feel jus as well recovered now as I did with using a serm. Libido and function are good, kept my strength and size, and overall feel great. Just my experience.
I definitely like hearing the dark horse opinions like this one and personal experiences with the less suggested stuff. My only issue is definitely the cost, with super mandro or mandro the giant being around 80 a bottle and needing two bottles before you account for a base and pct and all that. I was 100 percent stoked at the thought of beta testing icon one but was unfortunately not chosen. it’s a hard sell for Andros when pharma anavar could be run for a comparable cost. I’m about to pull the trigger on either pmag or Mecha but I was also offered an interesting opportunity related to Msten, dienedione, or superdrol.... obviously not the perfect choices but my gym partner offered me a bottle of any of them on the contingency that I do a detailed log for any other first time users to see and I get all the necessary ancillaries. I am very intrigued by Msten and dienedione and *maybe* superdrol at a super low dose but don’t wanna get in over my head or do something regrettable. Y’all were great in pointing out why to take certain things and definitely don’t wanna waste all that advice and just go do my own thing. He’s likely gonna do a summer recomp with one or two and I could miss out but would rather miss out and have my health than do something dumb for free.
 
Hyde

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It’s never free. The support supps, pct, food, bloodwork, your time and effort. For moderate oil or oral cycles, the variety in cost of the anabolics is negligible.

Take the drugs you are set on. Don’t let a total difference of less than $100 decide your choices for you. If money is THAT tight, probably not a great time to cycle.

Msten=$50. Tbol=$80. That’s a meal out with the lady.
 
New guy

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It’s never free. The support supps, pct, food, bloodwork, your time and effort. For moderate oil or oral cycles, the variety in cost of the anabolics is negligible.

Take the drugs you are set on. Don’t let a total difference of less than $100 decide your choices for you. If money is THAT tight, probably not a great time to cycle.

Msten=$50. Tbol=$80. That’s a meal out with the lady.
That’s exactly what I needed to hear. Much appreciated Hyde. Gonna pull the trigger on pmag, Mecha or halo. All available from the source I’m gonna use. Seems like they’re all pretty similar but most people report more consistent results with halo so I’m leaning towards that.
 
Hyde

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That’s exactly what I needed to hear. Much appreciated Hyde. Gonna pull the trigger on pmag, Mecha or halo. All available from the source I’m gonna use. Seems like they’re all pretty similar but most people report more consistent results with halo so I’m leaning towards that.
A classic first cycle. 75-100 for ~6 weeks
 

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been reading with interest here. So much knowledge and so much to learn.
 

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