First PH Cycle (1-Andro/EpiAndro) Mapped - Looking for a Review/Double Check By More Experienced AM Veterans. Thanks.

Danimal1414

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Good Morning AM! Longtime lurker, first time poster.

TL;DR:
I’ve mapped my first PH cycle (1-Andro, Epiandro) below to the best of my research and would greatly appreciate some of the veterans on here to weigh in and provide any insight/a peer review to help me out.

I know you guys get these posts all the time but I appreciate any time you have to share, as this will be my first experience with any hormonal anabolic and I want no surprises. I’ve tried to do my due diligence making use of the plethora of posts out there (thanks for the content btw) and studies/whitepapers/journals.

Personal Info:
29 years old, 5’8” tall, currently 162 lbs on the leaner side (175-180 lbs when bulking), estimated 13-14% body fat (measured with 7 point caliper test). I’ve been lifting since I was 17 years old to rid myself of very lean/thin framed genetics. I got pre-cycle natural bloods done already to have a baseline measurement: Total Test/Free Test is (673 ng/dL) / (15.5 ng/dL), respectively.

I’m comfortable with my workout routine and diet for the most part and will not be affected by COVID gym shutdowns since my basement is my home gym. My goal is a clean and lean bulk with strength increase and hardness. It’d be a dream to add 5-6lbs while maintaining or even dropping a BF % point or two. I’ve been using supplements for as long as I can remember.

Cycle Info:
I’ll be stacking 1-andro (HT 1-testosterone and BSL Choosen1 brands) and Epiando (CEL Stano-plex) together for an 8 week cycle as follows:

  • 1-Andro: 285 mg daily, 8 weeks. Dosed evenly through the day, with food. Enough stock to go up to 330 mg daily if needed, but I’d like to see what 285 does first.
  • Epiandro: 600 mg daily to start, enough stock to go to 900 mg daily at any point if I feel the need to. Dosed once in the morning and once preworkout.
  • SNS Liver Assist XT & Standardized Saw Palmetto through the entire cycle and PCT (I can’t find stock of reasonably priced CEL Cycle support anywhere).
I will also be using:
1.25g Arachidonic acid, 3g carnitine tartrate, & 15g lecithin standardized to 1200mg of phosphatidic acid preworkout (one of my favorite natty stacks. I have some near-dated X-gels to use up and love the synergy between this plus a primed anabolic environment). My basic staples and ergogenics (creatine hcl, various proteins, EAS’s, beta alanine, etc.) will be used as normal and omegas will be spaced as far away as possible from preworkout. Taurine is on hand for the fabeled back pumps. I’ll be washing my hair with PURA D'OR Original Gold Label Shampoo too (recommended on here) through the whole cycle/PCT just for peace of mind with DHT increase and hair shedding lol.

I’ve got Dermacrine on hand if case the suppression sides get the best of me and the epiandro doesn’t fight the lethargy/libido loss like I hope it does, though I hope to not have to use it. I’d rather have it and not need it than vise versa. IF sides are bad, would 3 pumps 3X a week be enough to combat them? What would be considered an excessive amount to use to the point I should take alternative action? Will the sides actually go away if I’m dosing the Dermacrine properly (how I’ll know it’s working)? Would there be any worthwhile benefit to low dose it through the cycle anyways, sides or no?

PCT:
4 week Nolvadex (tamoxifen) based PCT. No natty test booster included (a concern?). Cortisol and estrogen rebound control.

  • Nolvadex everyday (correct?) dosed by week: 30/20/20/10mg. Any issue taking in the morning?
  • SNS Reduce XT or XPG Suppress-C (topical B-Androstenetriol). Guidance here about one vs the other and dosing of each would be appreciated, I’ve read a lot of variability on here and don’t want to over- or under- dose whichever I use. I have never used either.
  • I’ve got OL Elim1nate (new Luteolin based one), SNS Inhibit E, and Aromasin on hand for choice of estrogen control. I’ve got all on hand (just in case) but only want to use the minimum of “whatever” to achieve hormonal balance. I was thinking of introducing either the elim1nate or Inhibit E on my 2-3 week of PCT and running two weeks past PCT with a taper off. What do you guys think? I don’t want to crash my E2 as much as I don’t want gyno.
The aromasin is on hand for absolute emergencies only (burning, itchy, lumpy, etc nips). If esto rebound flares up gyno signs, is 12.5 mg for several days too aggressive? 6.25mg underdosed? I’m pretty good at listening to my body and adjusting accordingly, but a good starting basis would be appreciated from someone that’s been there.

Everything above is physically on hand, ready to go. I’m a firm believer in using the minimum amount of “anything” to achieve results and expect to have a good amount of the extra’s on hand after this cycle, which I am perfectly fine with (next cycle stock perhaps :) ). I apologize for the lengthy post and scattered questions, but I legitimately appreciate any feedback, guidance, critique, etc. that you’ll can give.

If anyone see’s its value, I’d be happy to post weekly/bi-monthly updates of the cycle to add to the collection of data on AM. I am planning the cycle start either August 2nd or 9th.

Thank you again for any comments and answers!
 

Danimal1414

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save the ArA for your PCT period.
Thanks for the feedback man, that actually makes more sense to run during PCT to preserve the progress. I'll make sure I run the ArA/PA/LCLT during PCT. Related: I have sufficient stock of the Xgels to run through the entire cycle and PCT too - do you think it'd be helpful to do so or marginal/wasteful to use the ArA on cycle and keep the rest for PCT and off cycle times? Thank you.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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not really.. william lewellen recommends it in PCT to help reset the gains not so much to keep them but rather get you ready for your next cycle.
 

Whisky

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Yeah as above save all the natty stuff for pct bro, not gonna do anything actually on cycle but can help keep gainz post.

pct looks solid.

I’d personally Just start at 330 and 900 tbh. Your 💯 gonna increase and even at that we are talking pretty much minimum effective dose.

I’d also run the demacrine from the start. Dry as hell otherwise and from experience epiandro (good as it is) won’t be enough.

If (and it’s really really unlikely) you do get any estro problems then just dose 12.5 asin once and monitor. Even 6.25 would probably be enough. Don’t dose it multiple days, it works within 24 hours. I typically end up dosing it once a week at 12.5 on 350mg test for example.

you’ve done your homework though which is great to see. Your well prepared and you’ll have a great time.
 

Danimal1414

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not really.. william lewellen recommends it in PCT to help reset the gains not so much to keep them but rather get you ready for your next cycle.
Interesting idea and I like the concept of a discrete line between cycles - thank you for the additional follow up! I'll have a great stock of ArA to run during PCT and thereafter, which I'll be equally excited about since I've responded well in the past.

@Whisky : Awesome, thank you sir! I much appreciate the feedback. Doing the prep work was "easy" with many quality posts on AM. I'm going to take your advice on upping the dosage and the Dermacrine...I want to make sure this is a full run with meaningful results and mitigated sides as much as possible. Thanks for the recommendation, I'm glad I ended up buying the Dermacrine after all with your post. Thanks for the dosage recommendation on the asin too - that was definitely an open end for me.
 

Whisky

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Interesting idea and I like the concept of a discrete line between cycles - thank you for the additional follow up! I'll have a great stock of ArA to run during PCT and thereafter, which I'll be equally excited about since I've responded well in the past.

@Whisky : Awesome, thank you sir! I much appreciate the feedback. Doing the prep work was "easy" with many quality posts on AM. I'm going to take your advice on upping the dosage and the Dermacrine...I want to make sure this is a full run with meaningful results and mitigated sides as much as possible. Thanks for the recommendation, I'm glad I ended up buying the Dermacrine after all with your post. Thanks for the dosage recommendation on the asin too - that was definitely an open end for me.
no worries brother. It’s very similar to my first cycle as well. I really enjoyed it.

your goals are realistic and achievable with that stack

just a word of warning - we very rarely stop at one cycle or stick to the milder prohormones - your about to discover how much fun can be had and that’s a tough cookie to only take one bite of 🤣
 

Danimal1414

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no worries brother. It’s very similar to my first cycle as well. I really enjoyed it.

your goals are realistic and achievable with that stack

just a word of warning - we very rarely stop at one cycle or stick to the milder prohormones - your about to discover how much fun can be had and that’s a tough cookie to only take one bite of 🤣
Lmao I surely hope you're right about that last part since it means this first cycle will go as planned haha. After years of staying natty (and many phases of 'almost' running a cycle), I'm finally ready to give it my go with this beginner cycle and I honestly feel like a kid with excitement for it lol. Especially knowing just how much out there too after this. I appreciate the support and feedback above my man!
 
Rad83

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STRONG First Post

Gonna echo the Dermacrine and 330mg suggestions Whisky made.

It’s a great first cycle and what I ran...Minus the Dermacrine and I could of benefited from it, for sure.

I’d consider having clomid on hand, in case you don’t get on with the Tamox. (There’s some great deals going on right now with a couple board sponsors)
 

Danimal1414

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STRONG First Post

Gonna echo the Dermacrine and 330mg suggestions Whisky made.

It’s a great first cycle and what I ran...Minus the Dermacrine and I could of benefited from it, for sure.

I’d consider having clomid on hand, in case you don’t get on with the Tamox. (There’s some great deals going on right now with a couple board sponsors)
Thank you sir! I felt a bit like an ass making my first post a lengthy question, but I appreciate the warm welcome and guidance provided. Im trying to get out of my introverted shell and engage more, especially since this forum has a wealth value, and want to start contributing where I can too.

Thanks for the confirmation on the 1-andro dosage and dermacrine - I'm 100% going to to start the cycle using it, as it seems to be the general consensus.

Good point about clomid...I have no idea how I'll take to either tamox or clomid and it wouldn't be a bad idea to have on hand. I have no problem delaying my cycle and waiting for clomid to arrive; until I get post cycle bloods, will there be any signs that I'm not taking to the tamoxifen or not? I mean, besides the obvious of violent throwing up, migraines, etc?

Also, any experience with either Reduce XT or suppress-c when you ran your cycle PCT?
 

Whisky

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Thank you sir! I felt a bit like an ass making my first post a lengthy question, but I appreciate the warm welcome and guidance provided. Im trying to get out of my introverted shell and engage more, especially since this forum has a wealth value, and want to start contributing where I can too.

Thanks for the confirmation on the 1-andro dosage and dermacrine - I'm 100% going to to start the cycle using it, as it seems to be the general consensus.

Good point about clomid...I have no idea how I'll take to either tamox or clomid and it wouldn't be a bad idea to have on hand. I have no problem delaying my cycle and waiting for clomid to arrive; until I get post cycle bloods, will there be any signs that I'm not taking to the tamoxifen or not? I mean, besides the obvious of violent throwing up, migraines, etc?

Also, any experience with either Reduce XT or suppress-c when you ran your cycle PCT?
ive used reduce xt before - solid product. I prefer invictus myself but either will assist.

with regard to the serm, honestly I’ve seen very few people react badly to either (don’t get me wrong, it’ll happen and I agree with trying both over your first couple of cycles to see which you prefer) but aside from people getting emotional on clomid I think they are pretty well tolerated.
 
thebigt

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i see lots of love for dermacrine here... (y)

invictus and sustain alpha are both great add ons for pct, in my humble opinion.
 

Danimal1414

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ive used reduce xt before - solid product. I prefer invictus myself but either will assist.

with regard to the serm, honestly I’ve seen very few people react badly to either (don’t get me wrong, it’ll happen and I agree with trying both over your first couple of cycles to see which you prefer) but aside from people getting emotional on clomid I think they are pretty well tolerated.
Good to know, thank you. I have some clomid on order now that I'm awaiting shipment of just in case. I'll have it on hand to try next cycle for comparative sake at the very least. Shipping "should" be within the week or two so I can be patient to start the cycle prior to.

I'll swap cortisol control next time with Invictus as it seems to be well regarded since I already bought enough Suppress C for the duration of this PCT. I really liked Salvo for transdermal attempts with Laxo so I'm happy to try more Iron Legion products in the future. Expanding into hormonal products really opens up new avenues for stacks :)
 
cheftepesh1

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i see lots of love for dermacrine here... (y)

invictus and sustain alpha are both great add ons for pct, in my humble opinion.
These are my go to products when I can’t use clomid.
 
cheftepesh1

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i see lots of love for dermacrine here... (y)

invictus and sustain alpha are both great add ons for pct, in my humble opinion.
These are my go to products when I can’t use clomid.
 
Fly_boy

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I like this. Thinking of doing something similar myself. Are you going to log progress?
 

Danimal1414

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I like this. Thinking of doing something similar myself. Are you going to log progress?
Thanks for the comment - I can add some progress updates if someone is interested but didn't want to feed a dead thread. It'll definitely help keep me accountable lol.

I got a little behind on starting the stack from my originally projected dates and should be back on track to begin next week now. I was awaiting an order of Clomid as a backup PCT then all hell broke loose in my personal/work life after it arrived. I wasn't about to start the cycle getting poor sleep. Every time I looked at my supplement shelf I was pissy that I got delayed lol.
 

Danimal1414

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Hi All, I apologize for bumping a closed thread but I figured I'd make a quick update to simply add to the repository of AM.

I started the cycle this past Monday (Sept 14th) with a few minor changes to above. I took everyone's advice listed (running dermacrine, starting with 330mg 1-Andro, etc.) and all is well thus far, albeit only the third day in. The biggest relief was not getting diarrhea at the start of the stack as I've gotten from some select natty supplements lol.

One notable change to the stack is the addition of UltraHard TD Epi/andro to my stack - I capitalized on the labor day sale recently (thanks for that btw). Starting at 600mg epiando oral and working up the dosage on the TD as I go. I'm also considering adding in some additional 1-andro bumping up to 395mg/daily by the second or third week just because I have it - I'll play this as I go based on feel.

I've noticed an increase in sweating even during inactivity and sleeplessness at night (both guessing from the epiandro). I'm going to pull the Epiandro out from dosing through the entire day and dose once in the morning and preworkout only (around 5pm). Hoping that helps with the sleep issue. Otherwise, mood has been pretty "positive," and some minor daytime muscle fullness has started, but nothing over the top. Otherwise, no problems.

I lost some major weight the last 3-4 weeks from some negative life events/stress and I'm down to 157 lbs starting weight, but looking to turn that around quickly now that things are settled.

I'll make another update in a few weeks as the cycle continues. Thanks.

**EDIT: Added "precycle" pictures taken today (day 3 only), unpumped before my workout. Lighting is so so in the basement but this is as much for the before/after as it is making myself accountable during the cycle lol.
 

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