First cycle
- Thread starter Lyle086
- Start date
Zvch
Member
1cc twice a week sounds good to me for a first cycle. Propionate or enanthate might be better but sust would be fine. I’d recommend 175 every other day if you’re not opposed to pinning more often. Your blood levels will be peaked the whole time and you’ll feel a little better.
I personally think if someone can’t gain off 500mg of Test a week, they have no business touching androgens.
How long is the cycle? Do you have an AI on hand and a PCT planned out?
Zvch
Member
250 is a replacement dose. Please don’t shut your natural production down to get minimal returns.
Godstrength
Board Sponsor
Well not necessarily... The average male produces 7mg per day of testosterone which means 70/week is average "replacement". 100-150mg per week is closer to a true trt dose. When you get 200 or 250 bros just trying to get more test and puts you into supraphysiological levels.
Doctors give 250mg per week because its what bros want. A good trt doc will actually dial in your dose which for most people will fall in the 100-150 range per week. Some people use less for trt (like 70mg per week).
*250 is a small cycle dose
Zvch
Member
I’m aware.
250 is what some guys need after a year or two on TRT. Some guys desensitize. 200-250 should get the average guy to 1000-1300 at the beginning of treatment. There’s nothing supraphysiological about that. 250 is not a small cycle dose. 250 gets you to where average natural testosterone levels would be 100 years ago and where they should be.
If you run less than 500mg a week for a cycle, you’re better off doing SARMs. You’re going to get more gains at that point and less suppression.
250 is what some guys need after a year or two on TRT. Some guys desensitize. 200-250 should get the average guy to 1000-1300 at the beginning of treatment. There’s nothing supraphysiological about that. 250 is not a small cycle dose. 250 gets you to where average natural testosterone levels would be 100 years ago and where they should be.
If you run less than 500mg a week for a cycle, you’re better off doing SARMs. You’re going to get more gains at that point and less suppression.
Godstrength
Board Sponsor
Yeah there is... Show me the "average guy" whose test levels are between 1000 and 1300. That's not normal and that's not replacement. That's supraphysiological.
Also 250 get you to where natural testosterone levels would be a hundred years ago? WTF is that please bring some scientific evidence and not just some crazy bro science. I understand they're saying male testosterone is declining but I don't believe the average was 1300 by any means.
The last thing I'll say is this 250mg can put some people well over 2,000 ng per DL.
Also 250 get you to where natural testosterone levels would be a hundred years ago? WTF is that please bring some scientific evidence and not just some crazy bro science. I understand they're saying male testosterone is declining but I don't believe the average was 1300 by any means.
The last thing I'll say is this 250mg can put some people well over 2,000 ng per DL.
PoSiTiVeFLoW
Well-known member
Yup I had Test E 300, from Integrity Labs and Advanced Pharma.de 1cc per week (2 x 1/2cc twice a week) both brands Test E shot me to >3000ng/dL on my blood work, cray.
I'm curious to see my level now after starting 1/3rd that dose via Endocrinologist ordered TRT at 100mg per week of Test Cyp...
Zvch
Member
I misspoke. I didn’t mean average 100 years ago, I meant to say it wouldn’t be abnormal to see levels like that 100 years ago.
1000-1300 or more is an optimal replacement level in the eyes of a lot of anti-aging doctors. 250 is a cruise or high end replacement.
What is the goal of a cycle? Are we trying to get slightly over the high end of the normal range or slightly into the supraphysiological range, or are we trying to run a cycle?
Regardless of semantics, it seems absurd to me to suppress or shut down natural production to run something slightly over a replacement dose.
Zvch
Member
“Id bump it up some to at least 350-400 per week. Doing 250 isn't going to do a whole lot other than shut you down. Especially if your test levels are already naturally high.”
- That’s literally a quote from you on another thread one week ago.
Do you just enjoy arguing or what?
Godstrength
Board Sponsor
Are You just a dick or what??
I never told him to run 250 you're arguing with me whether or not that's a trt dose. YOU posted twice commenting about it. I think youre wanting to argue Lol
I would recommend that someone is going to run to run 350 or 400. So there's That. That doesn't mean 250 is a trt dose.
Explain this my first cycle was 250 a week for 10 weeks test enanthate. I gained 12 lb in kept 7. According to your argument that was my natural levels and I shouldn't have gained s***. Explain that smart guy. Oh btw I was 18 and test levels def werent low. Recovery was a breeze.
PoSiTiVeFLoW
Well-known member
Ths was already covered by Godstrength but no... 250mg Test weekly is not a replacement dose. 250-300mg of Test injection weekly will push a 6'2" male like me to >3000ng/dL consistent on bloodwork.
100-150mg per week of Test Cyp will get a low testosterone male back to 800-1000ng/dL total Test in blood work. But if OP has high or healthy test levels, don't do it. You just hasten your own path to needing TRT.
250mg to 600mg Test weekly = blast. For a first cycle blast, if OP has done his pre cycle bloodwork and has high test will be supressed. If OP is young you may recover a number of times from blast cycles, but it will catch up down the road.
I'm fact, me listening to body builder on AM and Brotherhoodofpain forums using 300mg/week as self TRT for 1.5 years straight is what tipped me into needing TRT ordered by and endocrinologist for real. The 2 years of milder supression from short PH cycles, before I added self TRT at blast levels, probably also hurt my natural Test production.
Just want to clear that up for new folks that 250-300mg test is not a replacement/cruise dose.
Zvch
Member
I don’t necessarily disagree with you and I think everything you’ve said is typically correct. The key word however being “typically”. Just because those doses get those specific people to a certain blood level of testosterone doesn’t mean that’s going to be the case for everyone.
Genetics actually play a big role in how each person’s liver will metabolize a certain dose of any compound or drug. 500mg a week might get one person to the same blood levels that 200 or 300 will allow someone else to reach.
There are people on replacement doses of 300mg or more per week who are still in normal range. For them that wouldn’t be a blast. I’m sure height, weight, sex etc. play a role but ultimately it’s your liver that’s responsible for metabolism. Same reason you have women or small men who can out-drink or out-drug larger people.
Rostam
Well-known member
And you suggest OP to start his first cycle with 500mg because you are sure he is not one of the ‘typical’ user but one of the fast metabolizer exceptions without even knowing him?
Zvch
Member
I was responding specifically to another post that was slightly off the topic at hand. It was made to seem like the same dose of testosterone gets everyone go the same blood level. I was responding to that post specifically in order to clarify that just isn’t the case whatsoever. Hence the quote.
You guys on this forum act like suggesting 500mg/week for a first cycle is reckless. I don’t need to qualify myself with a reason to suggest 500mg/week for a first cycle honestly because 500mg/week is STILL a pretty low cycle dose and a safe dose in terms of health and controlling side-effects. In terms of gains, anything less is not worth shutting yourself down over in my opinion. I’ve personally tried 300mg and 400mg per week. I wouldn’t say “I ran a cycle at 300mg/week” because the gains were not worthy of a cycle.
Rostam
Well-known member
Right. but you did actually suggest 500mg per week for his first cycle without knowing his cycle. Although he has more chance to be one of the typical user than one of the exceptions you are mentioning.
And PoSiTiVeFLoW post was not off the topic. He was saying that for a typical user 250mg can bring his test way above physiological level. Especially for a first time user. But I guess it's up to the OP to decide.
PoSiTiVeFLoW
Well-known member
Yes there are exceptions to the normal, but most people will fall into these dose 100-150mg weekly ranges.. pretty rare to have a special liver that allows one to safe process 3x the dose of either steroids or alcohol of a large male, for a long time.
We shouldn't advise based on exceptions and OPs bloodwork would be needed to prove they need/or would survive high dose test for long periods of time well. If they hit 1000ng/dL for total test of 100mg weekly, why advise a blast that will likely push his test off the charts? And then other things like aromatizing issues kick in.
Sure most young men will survive high dose test, as I did, but it will have effects in the long run.. most people do not have rare, lucky resistant organ (most who think they are exceptions are not).
Diminished returns on high dose test, use it as a base, add second Anabolic anyway... Better bang for the buck.