First cycle log - 1/4/epiandro + mk677
- Thread starter Whisky
- Start date
SouthPawSD
Active member
Pharmacy I'm not sure about. But you can order this exact cycle in the US. The SERM is a research chem and mk677 you'll have to get from EU unless your fine using a RC for that. I did the whole thing from within the US minus the mk677 I just ordered.
Whisky
Well-known member
I believe so, seem to recall the us being an option from the pharmacy I used for the serm anyway.......(as SouthPawSD said the rest you can get from the states anyway aside from the mk677 which I got from predator who will ship to us)
Whisky
Well-known member
Yo AM,
Day 30 - 510/510/1000
Still no sides, taurine has dealt with the back pumps and aside from total lack of sex drive (don’t consider that a side really) feel very normal.
Training - to be honest this is the first session I’ve struggled since I started.
Aim was 5x10 at 165 on bench, made the first 4 sets and failed at rep 8 on the 5th.
I time my rest periods and include the time to do the set so in theory I decrease rest each time the reps go up (as the set takes longer). 4x10 made I guess is an improvement on last week (5x9 at that weight) but disappointed to miss a lift for the first time.
Accessory work was largely the same as last week, slight improvement but nothing significant.
Felt I wasn’t as aggressive in this session, legs yesterday really hit me hard and I didn’t recover as well as I have been.
It turned into what I call a ‘punch the card’ session. Got it done but it wasn’t amazing.
I’m also thinking I’ll bump calories to 4,000 tomorrow. Certainly on days I run. Will stick at a touch lower on days I don’t. Want to make sure I finish the cycle strong and take advantage of this last 4 weeks......
I’m pretty good at cutting so a little fat gain shouldn’t be a concern.
Dead’s tomorrow should be interesting!!
Day 30 - 510/510/1000
Still no sides, taurine has dealt with the back pumps and aside from total lack of sex drive (don’t consider that a side really) feel very normal.
Training - to be honest this is the first session I’ve struggled since I started.
Aim was 5x10 at 165 on bench, made the first 4 sets and failed at rep 8 on the 5th.
I time my rest periods and include the time to do the set so in theory I decrease rest each time the reps go up (as the set takes longer). 4x10 made I guess is an improvement on last week (5x9 at that weight) but disappointed to miss a lift for the first time.
Accessory work was largely the same as last week, slight improvement but nothing significant.
Felt I wasn’t as aggressive in this session, legs yesterday really hit me hard and I didn’t recover as well as I have been.
It turned into what I call a ‘punch the card’ session. Got it done but it wasn’t amazing.
I’m also thinking I’ll bump calories to 4,000 tomorrow. Certainly on days I run. Will stick at a touch lower on days I don’t. Want to make sure I finish the cycle strong and take advantage of this last 4 weeks......
I’m pretty good at cutting so a little fat gain shouldn’t be a concern.
Dead’s tomorrow should be interesting!!
Whisky
Well-known member
Well duck a doodle day, lethargy hit like a mother this morning - could barely be arsed to type on my laptop for work. Not sure if it’s the increased in dose or general fatigue.
Will monitor and see how we go - if I need to drop the dose back down I will but it’s reminiscent of the first week and I pushed through that ok.
Training was a challenge today - increased the epi pwo but even so it was one of those sessions that you know anyone not committed would have sacked off so I feel for for making it happen.
Was decent in the end.
Deadlift - 5x10 at 292 was the highlight. I’m looking for a 440 pull by the end of this so feel I’m heading in the right direction.
Pull ups - 5 sets to failure, added 1 rep (over the 5 sets) the last few weeks but at a heavier weight and after increasing volume on dead’s I feel it’s progress.
5 sets snatch grip high pull, light weight max power
Accessory was pullovers, prone rows, face pulls and band pull aparts.
Then conditioning for 10 mins (swings and burpees)
Ended with biceps.
The pump is still great, I’m fairly vascular anyway but at the moment I’ve got veins starting to appear in shoulders and down my obliques which is nice.
Time to eat and recover. Day off tomorrow before heavy squats on Wednesday - hoping for a big session then.
Will monitor and see how we go - if I need to drop the dose back down I will but it’s reminiscent of the first week and I pushed through that ok.
Training was a challenge today - increased the epi pwo but even so it was one of those sessions that you know anyone not committed would have sacked off so I feel for for making it happen.
Was decent in the end.
Deadlift - 5x10 at 292 was the highlight. I’m looking for a 440 pull by the end of this so feel I’m heading in the right direction.
Pull ups - 5 sets to failure, added 1 rep (over the 5 sets) the last few weeks but at a heavier weight and after increasing volume on dead’s I feel it’s progress.
5 sets snatch grip high pull, light weight max power
Accessory was pullovers, prone rows, face pulls and band pull aparts.
Then conditioning for 10 mins (swings and burpees)
Ended with biceps.
The pump is still great, I’m fairly vascular anyway but at the moment I’ve got veins starting to appear in shoulders and down my obliques which is nice.
Time to eat and recover. Day off tomorrow before heavy squats on Wednesday - hoping for a big session then.
SouthPawSD
Active member
I've also noticed the lethargy this past week as well. I think it started about middle week 4 (23-27). To compare, most days in a 24hr period pre cycle I would sleep 8hrs on average. I pulled up the data last week and I averaged about 10-11 hrs in a 24hr period. So I've been throwing back preworkout to counteract.
Whisky
Well-known member
Guess it’s possibly just the increasing impact - everyone says the 1 & 4 kick in around week 4 so probably just that......
TBH part of me doesn’t mind it as I knew full well I was taking something suppressive so I kinda see this as a sign it’s working like it should.
If it helps get me jacked I can live with it lol
Whisky
Well-known member
Day 32, 510/510/1000
Thankfully the lethargy from yesterday has eased off, felt ok today. Wondering if it was just an immediate reaction to the bump in dosing.
Anyway, feeling good but was a rest day so thought I’d throw up some midway progress shots.
I’m defo no pro at the posing like you guys so go easy on the shoddy photography. Also shows the impact of loose skin when you drop 140lbs lol
Anyway - this was the day I started:
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And this is today (post evening meal and on a rest day, I’m flexed but no pump)
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Thankfully the lethargy from yesterday has eased off, felt ok today. Wondering if it was just an immediate reaction to the bump in dosing.
Anyway, feeling good but was a rest day so thought I’d throw up some midway progress shots.
I’m defo no pro at the posing like you guys so go easy on the shoddy photography. Also shows the impact of loose skin when you drop 140lbs lol
Anyway - this was the day I started:
Invalid Link Removed
And this is today (post evening meal and on a rest day, I’m flexed but no pump)
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Invalid Link Removed
SouthPawSD
Active member
Man bro you really are dedicated props to you for getting in shape man. Just curious, will the skin fully come back tight or only with surgery? I've never looked into it, but I'm currently helping my brother start on a path to lose 200lbs and know he will run into this problem.
hairygrandpa
Legend
Good progress! Don't worry about lose skin, it will fill out when you bulk up.
Keep grinding, bro!
Keep grinding, bro!
Whisky
Well-known member
As HG says below, bulking up can fill some but it’s never going to tighten fully. Loads of factors play a role (age, how long overweight, genetics etc).
At 200lbs loss he’ll have a fair bit imo, that said, with clothes on it makes no difference and depending on how bad it is he may not be bothered enough for surgery (for me I just see it as a reminder of a life I left behind....)
I could definitely say to your bro that being in shape with loose skin is a thousand times better than being overweight with no loose skin......good luck to him man
Whisky
Well-known member
Hey hey brothers, another day another update.....
Still running 510/510/1000
Feel like everything has kicked in today. Feel alpha as **** and generally wanting to slam weights around.....as it happens work got in the way so had to train at 8.30pm but if that’s the only time I can go then that’s when I go.
Note - lethargy has disappeared, seemed to just be one bad day earlier in the week, maybe the extra 1-andro kicked in before the 4-andro?
So squats.....
My normal Thursday wave pattern (5/4/3), this is the strongest I’ve felt all cycle. Was moving the weight really well and 286 for 3 flew up. Ended up hitting 297 for 3. This is 33lbs up from start of cycle and around 10lbs higher than my best ever 3rm.
Standard accessory, I’m basically increasing either weight or reps on nearly all accessory work every week as well.
I am starting to feel a slight ache in the knee joints. To be fair with the amount of running I do (I ain’t light) plus training it’s not a surprise, it’s nothing severe at the moment and everywhere else feels ok.
Really happy with progress in the gym, want to see the size start to push on in the last 3 weeks as well though.
Thoroughly enjoyable cycle thus far.....
Still running 510/510/1000
Feel like everything has kicked in today. Feel alpha as **** and generally wanting to slam weights around.....as it happens work got in the way so had to train at 8.30pm but if that’s the only time I can go then that’s when I go.
Note - lethargy has disappeared, seemed to just be one bad day earlier in the week, maybe the extra 1-andro kicked in before the 4-andro?
So squats.....
My normal Thursday wave pattern (5/4/3), this is the strongest I’ve felt all cycle. Was moving the weight really well and 286 for 3 flew up. Ended up hitting 297 for 3. This is 33lbs up from start of cycle and around 10lbs higher than my best ever 3rm.
Standard accessory, I’m basically increasing either weight or reps on nearly all accessory work every week as well.
I am starting to feel a slight ache in the knee joints. To be fair with the amount of running I do (I ain’t light) plus training it’s not a surprise, it’s nothing severe at the moment and everywhere else feels ok.
Really happy with progress in the gym, want to see the size start to push on in the last 3 weeks as well though.
Thoroughly enjoyable cycle thus far.....
Segansational
Well-known member
Congrats on the PR man! No better feeling!
hairygrandpa
Legend
Nah. It depends on how big you'll get, period. My guess, to fill out the "void" between skin and muscles, it will leave you with 225lbs lean mass. that is achievable!
Whisky
Well-known member
Thanks bro
Whisky
Well-known member
Update on last day of week 5......
Weight is at 205.5lbs - bit disappointed with this as not really moved in past week or two. That said I’m confident I’m leaner so LBM has probably increased more. Getting the scale moving in the next 3 weeks will be my focus though. I’m on 4,000 Cals a day so should be enough but I’ll push it up if needed.
Rest today today but yesterday was upper body power.....
Strength is still coming on, hit a 3 reps on bench at 211, bear in mind my one rep max at start of cycle was 210 it’s a big improvement.
Accessory work was solid, added reps to 5 sets of chins and single arm bench.
Do feel like the bump to 510 on the 1 and 4 andro has added something. Was noticeable within a few days.
Today will be a proper recovery day, no running, just a bit of walking.
Weight is at 205.5lbs - bit disappointed with this as not really moved in past week or two. That said I’m confident I’m leaner so LBM has probably increased more. Getting the scale moving in the next 3 weeks will be my focus though. I’m on 4,000 Cals a day so should be enough but I’ll push it up if needed.
Rest today today but yesterday was upper body power.....
Strength is still coming on, hit a 3 reps on bench at 211, bear in mind my one rep max at start of cycle was 210 it’s a big improvement.
Accessory work was solid, added reps to 5 sets of chins and single arm bench.
Do feel like the bump to 510 on the 1 and 4 andro has added something. Was noticeable within a few days.
Today will be a proper recovery day, no running, just a bit of walking.
Whisky
Well-known member
Day 1 week 5 510/510/1000
Weight up 1lb this morning (206.5, up 8.5 from start) - obviously rest day yesterday probably helped.....
Still no sides, occasional mild back pump but I’m adding taurine to my pwo which has made this not significant). Lethargy definitely eased off from last week (couple of days were a bit tough but nothing you couldn’t power through).
Training continues to be immense
6x3 speed squat at 154
5x11 back squat at 210 (added 1 rep to each from last week - best these have felt, probably could have done 5x12)
3x17 rdl at 176
S/s 3x17 hack squat at 187
3x 45s oh squat hold
S/s 3x20 lunges at 100
5x8 strict press at 105 (failed 5th rep last set, but given I’ve been overloading each week and my 8rm at start was 83 I can live with it)
3x13 dB press at 38
4x12 lat raises
4x15 shrugs
Legs were absolutely shot after this but in that great way, tingling for hours.
I feel like the training is consistent and on point so just want to make sure I fuel enough to take advantage of it. Keen to really push on these last 3 weeks (and I’m already not looking forward to being off cycle for 3 months).
Also planning a Black Friday shopping spree to get some stash for next year or two - currently thinking that a nanodrol, liquidien and androtest or dermatrest run would be awesome - anyone got thoughts on that as a second cycle?
Weight up 1lb this morning (206.5, up 8.5 from start) - obviously rest day yesterday probably helped.....
Still no sides, occasional mild back pump but I’m adding taurine to my pwo which has made this not significant). Lethargy definitely eased off from last week (couple of days were a bit tough but nothing you couldn’t power through).
Training continues to be immense
6x3 speed squat at 154
5x11 back squat at 210 (added 1 rep to each from last week - best these have felt, probably could have done 5x12)
3x17 rdl at 176
S/s 3x17 hack squat at 187
3x 45s oh squat hold
S/s 3x20 lunges at 100
5x8 strict press at 105 (failed 5th rep last set, but given I’ve been overloading each week and my 8rm at start was 83 I can live with it)
3x13 dB press at 38
4x12 lat raises
4x15 shrugs
Legs were absolutely shot after this but in that great way, tingling for hours.
I feel like the training is consistent and on point so just want to make sure I fuel enough to take advantage of it. Keen to really push on these last 3 weeks (and I’m already not looking forward to being off cycle for 3 months).
Also planning a Black Friday shopping spree to get some stash for next year or two - currently thinking that a nanodrol, liquidien and androtest or dermatrest run would be awesome - anyone got thoughts on that as a second cycle?
hairygrandpa
Legend
Any sides from MK, like numb hands, bloat, elevated BP or hunger cravings?
Whisky
Well-known member
Honestly no, the first week my sleep was messed up and I put that down to the mk (I now dose it a couple of hours before bed rather than just before) but nothing since.
Really not had any bloat at all on this run. The hunger cravings would be harder to tell as I’m eating a lot anyway.
Ironically I ordered a blood pressure monitor in the Black Friday sales and it’s arrived today - give me 20 mins and I’ll check that....
One thing I would say is my recovery has been so much better throughout - even first week when it’s unlikely to have been the 1/4/epiandro so I personally think mk677 plays a bit part in that.
Also worth noting I’m only dosing 12.5 pd at the moment, going to 25pd in pct.....
Whisky
Well-known member
BP was 126/76.....(it’s 10.25pm here so have already dosed the mk677) will be keeping an eye on it more consistently now I have the monitor
hairygrandpa
Legend
For me elevated BP happened after bloat was visible. Hit me in the second month at 30mg/day.
Whisky
Well-known member
Thanks for the heads up, I’ll keep an eye on that....
Whisky
Well-known member
Ffs, weight back down 2lbs this morning. For me I do have 2-3lb swings sometimes despite weighing at same time each day but physiologically it was annoying.
Bumped Cals to 4,250 on days I run and train, 4,000 on days I train or run, 3,750 if I actually take a day off.
Run and trained today so sitting here about to burst with all the food lol.
Training - chest, abs, tri’s
Not the greatest session. Ability to increase reps seems to have slowed right down on bench this last week (3rm has still been going up though).
5x11 at 165 was the aim but fell a couple of reps short on last two sets.
Standard accessory, no real change from last week.
In fairness chest was the one thing that didn’t get affected by my cut before I started this so I was pretty much straight into weight/reps I’d not shifted ever before at the beginning. The other lifts had a few weeks of improving on post cut but still within weight I’d hit before.
Still, take the prohormones out of the equation I’d be saying it was a solid session so I’m certainly not beating myself up over it.
I didn’t think you could out cardio steroids but I appear to be having a good go lol. Still, if eating more is what it takes then that’s the way I’ll go. I feel the cardio is good for cardio vascular health and that’s something I value so not prepared to drop it at the moment.
Bumped Cals to 4,250 on days I run and train, 4,000 on days I train or run, 3,750 if I actually take a day off.
Run and trained today so sitting here about to burst with all the food lol.
Training - chest, abs, tri’s
Not the greatest session. Ability to increase reps seems to have slowed right down on bench this last week (3rm has still been going up though).
5x11 at 165 was the aim but fell a couple of reps short on last two sets.
Standard accessory, no real change from last week.
In fairness chest was the one thing that didn’t get affected by my cut before I started this so I was pretty much straight into weight/reps I’d not shifted ever before at the beginning. The other lifts had a few weeks of improving on post cut but still within weight I’d hit before.
Still, take the prohormones out of the equation I’d be saying it was a solid session so I’m certainly not beating myself up over it.
I didn’t think you could out cardio steroids but I appear to be having a good go lol. Still, if eating more is what it takes then that’s the way I’ll go. I feel the cardio is good for cardio vascular health and that’s something I value so not prepared to drop it at the moment.
Whisky
Well-known member
Evening guys,
Quick update as I’m knackered and up early for work.
Dosing still 510/510/1000
Blood pressure 113/62
Weight 206.5 (up 8.5lbs) - really pushing the Cals now so expecting a jump the last few weeks, still look leaner than the start.
Rest day today, I’m kinda use to the feeling of underlying lethargy as well so don’t really notice it. It’s not been anywhere near as bad as other people get on other compounds at any time but I just feel pretty normal at the moment. No sides still. If it wasn’t for the gains I wouldn’t think I was on anything at all last couple of days.
Training yesterday
Back, bi’s, abs
Normal format, added a rep to last week so did 5x11 dead’s at 292.
The first set I had at least 13-14 reps in the tank (I’m using a 3 min emom format to ensure that both the set length and rest period are consistent each week. I also reset every rep rather than bouncing up and down to maintain decent form). Rest period is 2 mins 15 s
What’s exciting me is that 13-14 reps suggests a 1rm around 30lbs higher than my lifetime best so interested to see what happens by the end.
5x5 bw pull ups (I’m **** at these and my back is always smoked after dead’s)
Snatch grip high pulls, low weight, lots of power 5x5
Then shed loads of volume (all sets 15+)
Pullovers, face pulls, prone row, pull aparts
Smashed out a 10 min conditioning blast (felt strong on this)
Curls, many types, drop sets, forced reps etc. Basically went until I didn’t think I could use my arms anymore and called it a day.
Good session, enjoyed it.
Quick update as I’m knackered and up early for work.
Dosing still 510/510/1000
Blood pressure 113/62
Weight 206.5 (up 8.5lbs) - really pushing the Cals now so expecting a jump the last few weeks, still look leaner than the start.
Rest day today, I’m kinda use to the feeling of underlying lethargy as well so don’t really notice it. It’s not been anywhere near as bad as other people get on other compounds at any time but I just feel pretty normal at the moment. No sides still. If it wasn’t for the gains I wouldn’t think I was on anything at all last couple of days.
Training yesterday
Back, bi’s, abs
Normal format, added a rep to last week so did 5x11 dead’s at 292.
The first set I had at least 13-14 reps in the tank (I’m using a 3 min emom format to ensure that both the set length and rest period are consistent each week. I also reset every rep rather than bouncing up and down to maintain decent form). Rest period is 2 mins 15 s
What’s exciting me is that 13-14 reps suggests a 1rm around 30lbs higher than my lifetime best so interested to see what happens by the end.
5x5 bw pull ups (I’m **** at these and my back is always smoked after dead’s)
Snatch grip high pulls, low weight, lots of power 5x5
Then shed loads of volume (all sets 15+)
Pullovers, face pulls, prone row, pull aparts
Smashed out a 10 min conditioning blast (felt strong on this)
Curls, many types, drop sets, forced reps etc. Basically went until I didn’t think I could use my arms anymore and called it a day.
Good session, enjoyed it.
Whisky
Well-known member
Ok so an update for the past two days....been the two toughest training days on cycle thus far.
General:
510/510/1000
BP 113/76
Feeling fine in myself, the feeling of supression obviously has been constant but excessive lethargy not been an issue for the past few weeks.
However, whereas up to now ive been generally less enthusiasic about day to day life but bang up for training as soon as im in the gym the last two days training has felt like more of a chore.
Probably not a coincidence that mon/tues i had limited sleep (5-6 hours instead of my normal 7-8), ive also had a slightly busier week and drove for 7 hours on wednesday before squatting.
Wednesday training
Wave squat - felt like **** after all the driving but managed to fight up to 3 x 297 (same as last week)
Felt that bad i literally hit 5 sets of accessory on legs, some shoulder press and left - first session i've cut short all cycle.
Thursday training
Wave bench to 3x211 (equal to the pb i hit last week)
Then 5x6 chins
Accessory work including
Dips, bo rows, single arm bench, lat pull downs, cable curls, tricep push downs, hammer curls, oh extensions, roll outs
No pr but matched last week and got through the session i guess.
Coming into last two weeks im trying to piroritise sleep and recovery to get as much from this as possible.
6 week cycles on stronger compounds next year is appealing lol
General:
510/510/1000
BP 113/76
Feeling fine in myself, the feeling of supression obviously has been constant but excessive lethargy not been an issue for the past few weeks.
However, whereas up to now ive been generally less enthusiasic about day to day life but bang up for training as soon as im in the gym the last two days training has felt like more of a chore.
Probably not a coincidence that mon/tues i had limited sleep (5-6 hours instead of my normal 7-8), ive also had a slightly busier week and drove for 7 hours on wednesday before squatting.
Wednesday training
Wave squat - felt like **** after all the driving but managed to fight up to 3 x 297 (same as last week)
Felt that bad i literally hit 5 sets of accessory on legs, some shoulder press and left - first session i've cut short all cycle.
Thursday training
Wave bench to 3x211 (equal to the pb i hit last week)
Then 5x6 chins
Accessory work including
Dips, bo rows, single arm bench, lat pull downs, cable curls, tricep push downs, hammer curls, oh extensions, roll outs
No pr but matched last week and got through the session i guess.
Coming into last two weeks im trying to piroritise sleep and recovery to get as much from this as possible.
6 week cycles on stronger compounds next year is appealing lol
Whisky
Well-known member
Coming into the last 2 weeks now. Still dosing 510/510/1000
Weight - 206 (up 8lbs from start), again fairly static despite the bump in calories. Still looking leaner though. Going to keep Cals at 4,250 through to the end as I eat clean and it’s ****ing hard to get more in lol
Honestly it feels like things have slowed down, weeks 2 and 3 were the best, I got a slight kick when I bumped the doses but nothing sustained.
I am still pushing slightly more weight or slightly more reps each session but we are talking small increases.
Whilst that’s frustrating in some ways I’m also conscious that on all my lifts a lot of the increases in strength in the earlier weeks didn’t take me into new territory (I.e it was still weight I’d moved before, albeit at higher body weight), the last few weeks I am into weights/reps I’ve never shifted so it’s only realistic to expect slower progress - I’m also a realist in that this is a mild cycle and really with no sides any progress has to be considered decent.
Training yesterday - smashed legs
5x12 at 210 felt solid
Loads of volume on accessory
Weight - 206 (up 8lbs from start), again fairly static despite the bump in calories. Still looking leaner though. Going to keep Cals at 4,250 through to the end as I eat clean and it’s ****ing hard to get more in lol
Honestly it feels like things have slowed down, weeks 2 and 3 were the best, I got a slight kick when I bumped the doses but nothing sustained.
I am still pushing slightly more weight or slightly more reps each session but we are talking small increases.
Whilst that’s frustrating in some ways I’m also conscious that on all my lifts a lot of the increases in strength in the earlier weeks didn’t take me into new territory (I.e it was still weight I’d moved before, albeit at higher body weight), the last few weeks I am into weights/reps I’ve never shifted so it’s only realistic to expect slower progress - I’m also a realist in that this is a mild cycle and really with no sides any progress has to be considered decent.
Training yesterday - smashed legs
5x12 at 210 felt solid
Loads of volume on accessory
Whisky
Well-known member
Ok so mid way through week 7.
Still dosing 510/510/1,000. Weight 206 (ffs)
So 8lbs up but static at that now for s few weeks - it’s frustrating as I’m forcing the Cals in but I guess it is possible to our cardio a mild cycle lol. Definitely a learning curve for next time and at this stage I’m happy taking this as a bit of a recomp - I’m looking leaner for sure.
Training last two days
Chest tri’s abs yesterday
- 5x11 at 165, failed rep 8 last set (no progress in 2 weeks)
Accessory working including dips, incline dB press, press ups, various abs and tri’s supersets. Marginal improvements on some of these but nothing I’ll be telling my kids about in the future.
Today - back, bi’s and conditioning.
Much better session
Dead’s 5x12 at 292 (these felt as solid as one set of 8 at 270 did at the start of this)
5x5 pull ups
5x5 snatch grip high pulls
Load of volume on pullovers, face pulls, prone rows, pull aparts.
A 10 min conditioning blast (feel like I’ve made progress on conditioning although tbh this is one of my strengths along with endurance - like the least glamorous thing to be good at but getting uncomfortable and stubbornly pushing on is just a natural thing I can do).
Loads of curls - nice pump. Veins popping.
So good session today, annoying session yesterday but progress is being made.
Stocked up Big style on Black Friday. Got enough nanodrol, liquidien, androtest, Nano 1t, dermatrest and havoc to last a couple of years. Excited about what those stacks will bring next year.
Starting to think post pct, obviously taking the sensible time off and thinking of running mk677 at 25pd, maybe a dhea, certainly a gda. As a min I just want to maintain strength and leaness before my next cycle to ensure I’m starting that from a good position. Gains would be great but for the past 12 months (pre cycle) I tried everything to make natty gains with such limited success that I’m realistic about what to expect on a natty bridge.
Still dosing 510/510/1,000. Weight 206 (ffs)
So 8lbs up but static at that now for s few weeks - it’s frustrating as I’m forcing the Cals in but I guess it is possible to our cardio a mild cycle lol. Definitely a learning curve for next time and at this stage I’m happy taking this as a bit of a recomp - I’m looking leaner for sure.
Training last two days
Chest tri’s abs yesterday
- 5x11 at 165, failed rep 8 last set (no progress in 2 weeks)
Accessory working including dips, incline dB press, press ups, various abs and tri’s supersets. Marginal improvements on some of these but nothing I’ll be telling my kids about in the future.
Today - back, bi’s and conditioning.
Much better session
Dead’s 5x12 at 292 (these felt as solid as one set of 8 at 270 did at the start of this)
5x5 pull ups
5x5 snatch grip high pulls
Load of volume on pullovers, face pulls, prone rows, pull aparts.
A 10 min conditioning blast (feel like I’ve made progress on conditioning although tbh this is one of my strengths along with endurance - like the least glamorous thing to be good at but getting uncomfortable and stubbornly pushing on is just a natural thing I can do).
Loads of curls - nice pump. Veins popping.
So good session today, annoying session yesterday but progress is being made.
Stocked up Big style on Black Friday. Got enough nanodrol, liquidien, androtest, Nano 1t, dermatrest and havoc to last a couple of years. Excited about what those stacks will bring next year.
Starting to think post pct, obviously taking the sensible time off and thinking of running mk677 at 25pd, maybe a dhea, certainly a gda. As a min I just want to maintain strength and leaness before my next cycle to ensure I’m starting that from a good position. Gains would be great but for the past 12 months (pre cycle) I tried everything to make natty gains with such limited success that I’m realistic about what to expect on a natty bridge.
hairygrandpa
Legend
Same here, at least once per week, my workout was "not satisfying". I can feel it at the beginning of a workout, when weights seem to be heavier than expected. My guess is, that it's a CNS related fatigue. Hate those days.
Whisky
Well-known member
Yeah, tbf it’s standard for me previously when natty but was hoping that the ph’s would make it a thing of the past - naivety really and something I’ll have learnt for next time. Today has been great though....
Whisky
Well-known member
Yo AM,
510/510/1000
206lbs (still - I’ve made my peace with it though lol)
Training was mint today. Back squat up to a triple at 308 (lifetime 1rm at that point was 319). Felt strong so threw 330 on and smoked a single, more in the tank for sure and was the aim of the session to max so excited to see what I do when I actually max properly in a week.
Accessory work all felt good, felt like I could have trained for hours today.
Weirdly the feeling of suppression I’ve had since the start (and expected) has really eased off this week. Honestly feel very normal. Almost as though my body is ignoring the ph’s and just recovering or something (I know this won’t be the case btw, just trying to articulate the feeling). I’m assuming I’ve just got used to it but it’s strange anyway.
Last week I’d been thinking that 8 weeks is long, this week I don’t want the cycle to end.
510/510/1000
206lbs (still - I’ve made my peace with it though lol)
Training was mint today. Back squat up to a triple at 308 (lifetime 1rm at that point was 319). Felt strong so threw 330 on and smoked a single, more in the tank for sure and was the aim of the session to max so excited to see what I do when I actually max properly in a week.
Accessory work all felt good, felt like I could have trained for hours today.
Weirdly the feeling of suppression I’ve had since the start (and expected) has really eased off this week. Honestly feel very normal. Almost as though my body is ignoring the ph’s and just recovering or something (I know this won’t be the case btw, just trying to articulate the feeling). I’m assuming I’ve just got used to it but it’s strange anyway.
Last week I’d been thinking that 8 weeks is long, this week I don’t want the cycle to end.
Whisky
Well-known member
Hey guys and gals,
Still dosing 510/510 on the 1&4 andro but pushed the epi to 1,100 pd to the of the run (simply because there were more pills in the bottle than supposed to be lol).
Blood pressure 130/72. Honestly surprised it’s sat around ideal range throughout as my stim usage has increased throughout the run.
Weight 207 - got another 1lb on (9up in total). ****ing fighting my way to a 10lb gain lol.
Training - loving the last few sessions.
Thursday hit a 215 triple on bench (at the start of cycle my bench 1rm was 209, that was a lifetime best as well).
Pull ups I’m slowly adding reps to the sets but given bw is up the fact the reps are going up at all can be seen as progression.
Today smashed legs, 12 reps, 5 sets, strict 2 min rest at 220 on back squat (at the start I was only hitting 200 for 8 before form went).
Crazy volume today (last week of cycle - thought wtf not), 3 sets 20 reps rdls supersetted with 3x20 hack squats
Some oh squatting and lunges
Then shoulders, got a tremendous pump in my shoulders, they’ve come on nicely on this run.
I’d designed the training program for this cycle specifically to take advantage of improved recovery and ability to handle volume. Going to max out next weekend at the end of the 8 weeks and then keep a similar training format but higher weights/less overall volume to try and keep what I’ve gained without breaking myself.
Also considered that I ducked the timing up a bit, being on over Xmas would have made far better use of the calories. However, I’m starting to think ahead and basically planning to run a natty stack of mk677 and dhea with a gda through to my next cycle - aim will simply be maintenance of body composition and strength.
Still dosing 510/510 on the 1&4 andro but pushed the epi to 1,100 pd to the of the run (simply because there were more pills in the bottle than supposed to be lol).
Blood pressure 130/72. Honestly surprised it’s sat around ideal range throughout as my stim usage has increased throughout the run.
Weight 207 - got another 1lb on (9up in total). ****ing fighting my way to a 10lb gain lol.
Training - loving the last few sessions.
Thursday hit a 215 triple on bench (at the start of cycle my bench 1rm was 209, that was a lifetime best as well).
Pull ups I’m slowly adding reps to the sets but given bw is up the fact the reps are going up at all can be seen as progression.
Today smashed legs, 12 reps, 5 sets, strict 2 min rest at 220 on back squat (at the start I was only hitting 200 for 8 before form went).
Crazy volume today (last week of cycle - thought wtf not), 3 sets 20 reps rdls supersetted with 3x20 hack squats
Some oh squatting and lunges
Then shoulders, got a tremendous pump in my shoulders, they’ve come on nicely on this run.
I’d designed the training program for this cycle specifically to take advantage of improved recovery and ability to handle volume. Going to max out next weekend at the end of the 8 weeks and then keep a similar training format but higher weights/less overall volume to try and keep what I’ve gained without breaking myself.
Also considered that I ducked the timing up a bit, being on over Xmas would have made far better use of the calories. However, I’m starting to think ahead and basically planning to run a natty stack of mk677 and dhea with a gda through to my next cycle - aim will simply be maintenance of body composition and strength.
Whisky
Well-known member
Hey bro, it’s the CEL m test, a natty test booster.
I’ll run it (along with reduce xt) past the end of my serm.....
Whisky
Well-known member
Hey AM,
So 3 days left (after today) of the 8 weeks.
Dosing the same as last 3 weeks with that increase in epiandro to 1,200 this week.
Still no sides currently. Been a great stack in that regard.
Weight is creeping up - at 208 this morning so finally fought my way to 10lbs on. Would have liked a touch more but if I can keep it all or certainly most it’s gravy.
I would say this week I’m struggling a touch to maintain the intensity of training. I’ve noticed a slight decline in recovery this week with more soreness. Possibly the bump in epiandro but I’ve been hammering the gym (not missed a session and only had one I had to cut short), training 5 days a week (pushing limits pretty much every session) and running 7.5k 6 days a week is finally starting to get to me (should be noted that even now I’m still recovering way better than when natty).
Training Monday (today was just cardio) was back.
Deads 1 set 12 then 4 sets 10 reps all at 308. Pretty happy with this, hoping it translates to a decent 1 rep increase in pct.
Shed load of back accessory work.
Pull ups and then a superset of straight arm pull downs to pre fatigue following by prone rows.
Got 2 sessions left this week of my 8 week program (wed/thurs) then testing all lifts on the weekend. I’ll be comparing lifts to both pre cycle and lifetime bests (lifetime best all set this year but at a bodyweight around 7lbs higher than I am currently.
Get jacked bros
So 3 days left (after today) of the 8 weeks.
Dosing the same as last 3 weeks with that increase in epiandro to 1,200 this week.
Still no sides currently. Been a great stack in that regard.
Weight is creeping up - at 208 this morning so finally fought my way to 10lbs on. Would have liked a touch more but if I can keep it all or certainly most it’s gravy.
I would say this week I’m struggling a touch to maintain the intensity of training. I’ve noticed a slight decline in recovery this week with more soreness. Possibly the bump in epiandro but I’ve been hammering the gym (not missed a session and only had one I had to cut short), training 5 days a week (pushing limits pretty much every session) and running 7.5k 6 days a week is finally starting to get to me (should be noted that even now I’m still recovering way better than when natty).
Training Monday (today was just cardio) was back.
Deads 1 set 12 then 4 sets 10 reps all at 308. Pretty happy with this, hoping it translates to a decent 1 rep increase in pct.
Shed load of back accessory work.
Pull ups and then a superset of straight arm pull downs to pre fatigue following by prone rows.
Got 2 sessions left this week of my 8 week program (wed/thurs) then testing all lifts on the weekend. I’ll be comparing lifts to both pre cycle and lifetime bests (lifetime best all set this year but at a bodyweight around 7lbs higher than I am currently.
Get jacked bros
Whisky
Well-known member
Hey brothers,
Quick update (its late and I’m tired)
2 days left on cycle, can honestly say that whilst part of me is ready to move on part of me is gonna miss these little bastard pills. 8 weeks of 20+ pills a day (not including the 20+ I take as normal supps) becomes quite a part of your life. I’m aware if I’m emotional about this before I start on clomid I’ll be ****ing crying at tv adverts next week btw lol.
100% glad I ran this and definitely think I made the right decision on a first cycle. Would recommend exactly this to anyone in the same situation.
So weight is still 10lbs up. Would love another 2 but if I can keep all/most I’m good.
Still leaner as well.
Training.
Not boring you with accessory stuff but back squat 3x319 was a great lift for me (319 for 1 was my previous lifetime best at a higher bw). I’m maxing on Saturday but honestly couldn’t resist throwing 335 on for an attempt at another pr - made it, bit of a grind but held solid form. Sure I’ll have more on Saturday.
That’s it for tonight. Stay swole guys
Quick update (its late and I’m tired)
2 days left on cycle, can honestly say that whilst part of me is ready to move on part of me is gonna miss these little bastard pills. 8 weeks of 20+ pills a day (not including the 20+ I take as normal supps) becomes quite a part of your life. I’m aware if I’m emotional about this before I start on clomid I’ll be ****ing crying at tv adverts next week btw lol.
100% glad I ran this and definitely think I made the right decision on a first cycle. Would recommend exactly this to anyone in the same situation.
So weight is still 10lbs up. Would love another 2 but if I can keep all/most I’m good.
Still leaner as well.
Training.
Not boring you with accessory stuff but back squat 3x319 was a great lift for me (319 for 1 was my previous lifetime best at a higher bw). I’m maxing on Saturday but honestly couldn’t resist throwing 335 on for an attempt at another pr - made it, bit of a grind but held solid form. Sure I’ll have more on Saturday.
That’s it for tonight. Stay swole guys
Segansational
Well-known member
Awesome to see so many previous PRs fall! Great job.
Whisky
Well-known member
Ok so lots going on with this cycle - here’s the update.
Finished the 8 weeks yesterday. Finish weight was exactly 209 so right at the end we hit 11lbs up. Definitely as lean as at the start, maybe a touch leaner still.
Bumped mk677 up to 25mg last night, going to run that through into next year (and up to my next cycle).
Started pct today (will run this log through pct to see what we keep).
Pct is clomid 50/25/25/12.5
Adamantine by hydrapharm
M test
Reduce xt (weeks 2-6)
X gels
Basically the x gels and adamantine (along with predator gda from chaos and pain) will be my natty stack through to next run.
Training
Tested my squat and push press 1rm today.
Pre cycle squat was 297 (my lifetime best at a heavier weight earlier this year was 319)
Today I hit a grinding but technically solid 352! That’s 33lbs on my lifetime best and an increase on 55lbs from start of cycle - and that’s just an andro run lol buzzing after making that. Followed it with 5x3 at 308 and felt strong.
Push press - lifetime best was 171 (only ever hit that once, usually miss at 160ish - should be noted my technique does need work).
Today I hit 187 first time with no misses building up. A 16lb pb....absolutely immense.
Today we test bench - given I’ve already hit triples at 5lbs over my 1rm that should definitely be up and deadlift I have no idea but we’ll see.
Unless something goes horribly wrong in pct this has been ducking awesome. Having a great time.
Will update tomorrow
Finished the 8 weeks yesterday. Finish weight was exactly 209 so right at the end we hit 11lbs up. Definitely as lean as at the start, maybe a touch leaner still.
Bumped mk677 up to 25mg last night, going to run that through into next year (and up to my next cycle).
Started pct today (will run this log through pct to see what we keep).
Pct is clomid 50/25/25/12.5
Adamantine by hydrapharm
M test
Reduce xt (weeks 2-6)
X gels
Basically the x gels and adamantine (along with predator gda from chaos and pain) will be my natty stack through to next run.
Training
Tested my squat and push press 1rm today.
Pre cycle squat was 297 (my lifetime best at a heavier weight earlier this year was 319)
Today I hit a grinding but technically solid 352! That’s 33lbs on my lifetime best and an increase on 55lbs from start of cycle - and that’s just an andro run lol buzzing after making that. Followed it with 5x3 at 308 and felt strong.
Push press - lifetime best was 171 (only ever hit that once, usually miss at 160ish - should be noted my technique does need work).
Today I hit 187 first time with no misses building up. A 16lb pb....absolutely immense.
Today we test bench - given I’ve already hit triples at 5lbs over my 1rm that should definitely be up and deadlift I have no idea but we’ll see.
Unless something goes horribly wrong in pct this has been ducking awesome. Having a great time.
Will update tomorrow
Whisky
Well-known member
How go fellas, quick update (honestly could wax lyrical for hours tonight but I need sleep to recover from today).....have more time tomorrow so plan to do a proper cycle review.
It’s day 2 of pct, I’m dosing the clomid around 6 or 7pm at 50mg. (I know the half life means it makes no odds when I dose)
Nothing really to note from that yet, felt like I was getting emotional watching a film with the missus a couple of hours after the first dose - you gotta love the placebo effect lol
But yeah not noticing anything in the way of sides.
Mk677 up to 25. Dosing it all at night.
Training
So tested my bench and deadlift today. Following the success yesterday I was prepared to be disappointed today. Also ran 7.5km this morning.
Benched first - hit a decent rep at 237.5 for a 18.5lb lifetime pr (had broken in cycle but pre cycle 209 was my best). I did get 242 up but ass was an inch or two off the bench - wouldn’t have counted in comp for sure.
Then deadlift. Honestly didn’t feel that dialled in today but worked up pretty well. Pre cycle my lifetime best was 405 (and I was a good 15-20lbs off that mark at the start of this run.
Anyway, long story short I hit 440lbs for a huge 35lb pr. That’s a weight I’ve wanted for a while and it was right on the brink. Honestly couldn’t have given it more. If you look up grind in the dictionary they’ll show the video of this rep. Agonisingly slow but got it there, gave it s little Eddie hall like grin at the top and now I feel like everything is broken lol.
But yeah, what a weekend. I know how hard I train and this run has allowed me to actually get the benefits of that hard work. They ain’t massive numbers (yet) but it’s all in the right direction now!!
Night all
It’s day 2 of pct, I’m dosing the clomid around 6 or 7pm at 50mg. (I know the half life means it makes no odds when I dose)
Nothing really to note from that yet, felt like I was getting emotional watching a film with the missus a couple of hours after the first dose - you gotta love the placebo effect lol
But yeah not noticing anything in the way of sides.
Mk677 up to 25. Dosing it all at night.
Training
So tested my bench and deadlift today. Following the success yesterday I was prepared to be disappointed today. Also ran 7.5km this morning.
Benched first - hit a decent rep at 237.5 for a 18.5lb lifetime pr (had broken in cycle but pre cycle 209 was my best). I did get 242 up but ass was an inch or two off the bench - wouldn’t have counted in comp for sure.
Then deadlift. Honestly didn’t feel that dialled in today but worked up pretty well. Pre cycle my lifetime best was 405 (and I was a good 15-20lbs off that mark at the start of this run.
Anyway, long story short I hit 440lbs for a huge 35lb pr. That’s a weight I’ve wanted for a while and it was right on the brink. Honestly couldn’t have given it more. If you look up grind in the dictionary they’ll show the video of this rep. Agonisingly slow but got it there, gave it s little Eddie hall like grin at the top and now I feel like everything is broken lol.
But yeah, what a weekend. I know how hard I train and this run has allowed me to actually get the benefits of that hard work. They ain’t massive numbers (yet) but it’s all in the right direction now!!
Night all
hairygrandpa
Legend
Congrats!! Nice PR's!
Whisky
Well-known member
Thanks HG
Whisky
Well-known member
Ok so got a bit of time to give a review of the actual run itself (with give a final review following pct in 4weeks)
Stack was 1-andro/4-andro/epiandro/mk677
Initial Dosing was 340/340/700/12.5
Midway bumped doses to 510/510/1000/12.5
Starting weight 198lbs
Starting bodyfat est 15%
Finishing weight 209lbs
Finishing body fat est 12-13%
Calories started around 3,400 and got bumped as we went end at 4,250
Lifts you can see in the posts above, all went up and all by more than expected off a ‘mild’ cycle.
Cons/negatives/sides
Sleep in the first week - very disturbed, hard to get to sleep, waking really early etc.
Total loss of libido. Wife not arsed (the joy of kids) so really didn’t cause any issues - note, had no performance issues at all, just didn’t fancy it.
Lethargy - 2/3 days in the 8 weeks this affected my day in terms of not being able to do stuff. Outside of that around 3-4 weeks were a bit of a grind but no real issues. Around 3-4 weeks I didn’t notice it much/at all.
Joint aches - virtually none apart from final week (but way less than I’ve had when doing intense training programs like smolov natty)
Back pumps - first time I experienced this I thought I’d pulled a muscle badly. ****ing horrible things. Taurine was effective though and barely felt it when dosing taurine.
Duration - definitely wouldn’t have wanted to run shorter for the results which I got in last two weeks but 8 weeks started to feel like a long time to keep the intensity of training up (I was really pushing boundaries on volume and weight). Definitely recommend doing this when you have nothing else major going on.
Gas - even I thought it was horrendous and it’s not like I’m normally producing rose scented gas. Could clear rooms that were across a hall way from the one I was in
Price - cost me about $7-800 to run including everything. I have a good job so wasn’t an issue but it’s definitely something to consider with this stack.
Pros/positives
‘On’ feeling - knowing I was on a cycle was a great feeling. Felt alpha from day 1 and confidence was higher than normal (generally I’m confident anyway).
Recovery - this was a huge difference. Speed of recovery greatly enhanced.
Endurance - not cardio endurance but training endurance. I ran 6 days a week 7.5k on average and it had detrimental effect on my lifting (which it has in the past). Was hitting 2 your weights sessions hard throughout.
Aggression - was purely in the gym. Zero increased aggression outside of it. If anything I was less aggressive because at times the lethargy meant I couldn’t be arsed.
Fat loss - didn’t expect to lose fat but I did, very noticeable to me.
Vascular appearance- looked vascular throughout (I like that look)
General appearance - skin was good, muscles appeared fuller
Strength - gains of 30+ lbs on squat and deadlift in 8 weeks exceed my expectations
Weight - great seeing the scales go up while appearing leaner
Nutrient partitioning - hadn’t considered this pre cycle but this was huge for me. As a former fatty I’m prone to fat regain - literally every previous natty bulk, even with slow progress and precise tracking has seen fat gain. This is game changing for me.
What would I do differently
Calories - knowing what I know now I would have bumped them quicker and earlier for sure, probably lost out on a few lbs lean mass earlier on.
Timing - next time I’ll plan to be on over Xmas - the nutrient partitioning on holiday food and extra time to train would help get even more from it.
Honestly aside from that not anything I’d change - I’ve had a great time. It’s exceeded my expectations.
One thing I would say though is you still have to work ****ing hard - you get the results hard work should get you but you gotta put it in - I honestly couldn’t have put more in. Didn’t miss a single session (cut one session short and that was it) or meal.
Imho if someone doesn’t get something from this type of stack there’s probably something outside the stack that’s not right.
Stack was 1-andro/4-andro/epiandro/mk677
Initial Dosing was 340/340/700/12.5
Midway bumped doses to 510/510/1000/12.5
Starting weight 198lbs
Starting bodyfat est 15%
Finishing weight 209lbs
Finishing body fat est 12-13%
Calories started around 3,400 and got bumped as we went end at 4,250
Lifts you can see in the posts above, all went up and all by more than expected off a ‘mild’ cycle.
Cons/negatives/sides
Sleep in the first week - very disturbed, hard to get to sleep, waking really early etc.
Total loss of libido. Wife not arsed (the joy of kids) so really didn’t cause any issues - note, had no performance issues at all, just didn’t fancy it.
Lethargy - 2/3 days in the 8 weeks this affected my day in terms of not being able to do stuff. Outside of that around 3-4 weeks were a bit of a grind but no real issues. Around 3-4 weeks I didn’t notice it much/at all.
Joint aches - virtually none apart from final week (but way less than I’ve had when doing intense training programs like smolov natty)
Back pumps - first time I experienced this I thought I’d pulled a muscle badly. ****ing horrible things. Taurine was effective though and barely felt it when dosing taurine.
Duration - definitely wouldn’t have wanted to run shorter for the results which I got in last two weeks but 8 weeks started to feel like a long time to keep the intensity of training up (I was really pushing boundaries on volume and weight). Definitely recommend doing this when you have nothing else major going on.
Gas - even I thought it was horrendous and it’s not like I’m normally producing rose scented gas. Could clear rooms that were across a hall way from the one I was in
Price - cost me about $7-800 to run including everything. I have a good job so wasn’t an issue but it’s definitely something to consider with this stack.
Pros/positives
‘On’ feeling - knowing I was on a cycle was a great feeling. Felt alpha from day 1 and confidence was higher than normal (generally I’m confident anyway).
Recovery - this was a huge difference. Speed of recovery greatly enhanced.
Endurance - not cardio endurance but training endurance. I ran 6 days a week 7.5k on average and it had detrimental effect on my lifting (which it has in the past). Was hitting 2 your weights sessions hard throughout.
Aggression - was purely in the gym. Zero increased aggression outside of it. If anything I was less aggressive because at times the lethargy meant I couldn’t be arsed.
Fat loss - didn’t expect to lose fat but I did, very noticeable to me.
Vascular appearance- looked vascular throughout (I like that look)
General appearance - skin was good, muscles appeared fuller
Strength - gains of 30+ lbs on squat and deadlift in 8 weeks exceed my expectations
Weight - great seeing the scales go up while appearing leaner
Nutrient partitioning - hadn’t considered this pre cycle but this was huge for me. As a former fatty I’m prone to fat regain - literally every previous natty bulk, even with slow progress and precise tracking has seen fat gain. This is game changing for me.
What would I do differently
Calories - knowing what I know now I would have bumped them quicker and earlier for sure, probably lost out on a few lbs lean mass earlier on.
Timing - next time I’ll plan to be on over Xmas - the nutrient partitioning on holiday food and extra time to train would help get even more from it.
Honestly aside from that not anything I’d change - I’ve had a great time. It’s exceeded my expectations.
One thing I would say though is you still have to work ****ing hard - you get the results hard work should get you but you gotta put it in - I honestly couldn’t have put more in. Didn’t miss a single session (cut one session short and that was it) or meal.
Imho if someone doesn’t get something from this type of stack there’s probably something outside the stack that’s not right.
hairygrandpa
Legend
Great detailed review!
Whisky
Well-known member
Ok, we all love the nudez so here’s a post cycle pic from tonight (quoted post shows first day and midway for comparison)
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Personally I’m really happy with the progress - if I can maintain exactly as I am now to my next cycle I’ll be more than happy......
hairygrandpa
Legend
Was looking at your before pics to have a reference. Most noticeable is the increased vascularity , some fat lost at the abdomen and chest looks bigger!
I'm eager to see how you look after another bulk cycle. I would consider something more wet, like Trest.
I'm eager to see how you look after another bulk cycle. I would consider something more wet, like Trest.
Whisky
Well-known member
Thanks HG, and I’ve obviously been taking in the good advice from your other posts as several bottles of dermatrest are sitting in a drawer all ready for next year
Planning to stack with havoc (in my mind the anti estrogenic properties of epi would be a perfect foil for the wetter trest.....)?
hairygrandpa
Legend
Thanks HG, and I’ve obviously been taking in the good advice from your other posts as several bottles of dermatrest are sitting in a drawer all ready for next year
Would save Havoc for another cycle. A moderate/higher dose of Trest will overshadow the Havoc, IMHO. Epi is a good idea to counteract estro!
But still, have some exemestane on hand.