Finally. THE BLR PRE WORKOUT THREAD. New product leaks

brundel

brundel

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Ok boys and girls its been a long time coming but finally we are ready to let our pre workout supp out of the bag.

Im starting this specifically for 2 reasons.
1. To start discussing product development prior to launch.
2. To discuss pre workout products in general so I want to start with a few questions.

What, in your opinion, are the primary (lets say 3) effects you want from a pre workout product?
What, in your opinion, is the most effective single 1 or 2 ingredients in pre workout products?
What in your opinion, is commonly missing, not working properly in todays pre workout products?
 

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brundel

brundel

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Awesome.
1) Pump, focus, non-stim or non CNS stim or very low stim
2) Nitrates and L-Citrulline
3) Everything, but the kitchen sink copies of each other / too much stim and too much reliance on stim's.
Love it.
I think high doses of stims are counterproductive. You feel stimulated but blood vessels are so constricted you couldn't get a pump if your life depended on it.
I think people see veins because their blood pressure has gone up to 200/120 while training on high stims and they think "pumped"!!
 
toddmuelheim

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I can not wait until this bad boy is unleashed
 
Ari Gold

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Looking forward to seeing what this ends up looking like!
 
rowz4broz

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Question for ya brundel is this thread indicating that the profile of the pre has not been finalized ? Just wondering
 
brundel

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Question for ya brundel is this thread indicating that the profile of the pre has not been finalized ? Just wondering
No sir it has been.
 
brundel

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The thread is to talk about pre workout products. It will lead into discussions regarding ours.
 
Afi140

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Awesome.
1) Pump, focus, non-stim or non CNS stim or very low stim
2) Nitrates and L-Citrulline
3) Everything, but the kitchen sink copies of each other / too much stim and too much reliance on stim's.
This for the most part other than the nitrates. I’m kind of scared about my nitrate consumption over the years tbh. I also like a decent dose of caffeine but don’t really want any noots or focus ingredients.

I’m all about caffeine, major pump, and major endurance ingredients :)
 
jtmass

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3 things I want from a Pre

1) Not over stimulating
2) True performance enhancer
3) Pumps

Ingredient: Nitrates

What’s missing: Performance enhancement
 
00A

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All I want is clinical dosages.. a product that delivers and its selling point alone is not flavour..

L-Citrulline DL Malate 2:1 at 8g or higher
Carnosyn beta-alanine 3.5g or higher
Betaine Anhydrous 2.5g higher or a branded type
APLHA GPC branded :))
 
brundel

brundel

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This for the most part other than the nitrates. I’m kind of scared about my nitrate consumption over the years tbh. I also like a decent dose of caffeine but don’t really want any noots or focus ingredients.

I’m all about caffeine, major pump, and major endurance ingredients :)
I think I agree. Modest stimulation NOT ultra stim.
Real pump (which means more than just citrulline or a vasodilator) \
And something to increase endurance. Why take a pre workout product if it doesnt improve performance? Makes no sense.
 
brundel

brundel

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3 things I want from a Pre

1) Not over stimulating
2) True performance enhancer
3) Pumps

Ingredient: Nitrates

What’s missing: Performance enhancement
I fully agree here as well. Needs to actually improve performance. I think people confuse overstimulation from CNS stims as performance enhancing. Yes modest doses of caffeine can help improve performance but there is for sure a point where stimulants work against every goal in the gym.
 
brundel

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All I want is clinical dosages.. a product that delivers and its selling point alone is not flavour..

L-Citrulline DL Malate 2:1 at 8g or higher
Carnosyn beta-alanine 3.5g or higher
Betaine Anhydrous 2.5g higher or a branded type
APLHA GPC branded :))
Seems like alot of people like this type of formula. A testament to this is all of the products out there that look like this albeit with lower doses of everything.
This is also confusing to me....Why have a product with a dozen ingredients and none of them have doses high enough to be viable. Of course its done because the vast majority of customers dont know the difference. Scammy stuff.
 
00A

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Seems like alot of people like this type of formula. A testament to this is all of the products out there that look like this albeit with lower doses of everything.
This is also confusing to me....Why have a product with a dozen ingredients and none of them have doses high enough to be viable. Of course its done because the vast majority of customers dont know the difference. Scammy stuff.
Fitness is science * more then 80 percent of population dont know what clinical dosage even means
 
brundel

brundel

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I dont disagree.
I wanted to actually test the ingredients prior to adding them to the product. Meaning lets say there are 7 ingredients. We have to test each one solo and vs placebo.
Its a long drawn out process when you imagine that we canned over 20 ingredients I think because they just didnt seem to do anything positive.
LOTS of them stuff you see in products commonly. I wont go into detail as I dont want this to become a hate mail thread but there was good reason in my opinion to take our time.
Some things also got in the way like production times for things not normally produced.
But the end product is very solid. Youll recognize most of the ingredients I think if you are educated in supplements and one probably not.
One thing I can promise.
This stuff works.
Very well.
 

ironkill

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Makes sense but do you really need to test certain ingredients seperately if they are already in many products that currently exist? Shouldnt only the one that no one will recognize need to be tested? I mean if it has citrulline, beta alanine etc those should not really require further testing at this point in the game. Either way Im excited as you put out great products and ive thoroughly enjoyed my follidrone and vector
 
jswain34

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If theres beta alanine in this pre I will not be buying. I really hope you wouldnt do that, Brundle. I definitely dont see BLR as a company that would do that but i just want to say thatd be massively disappointing. Those of you who would like BA in a pre, i would love to hear why? The feelz, bro?
 
brundel

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Makes sense but do you really need to test certain ingredients seperately if they are already in many products that currently exist? Shouldnt only the one that no one will recognize need to be tested? I mean if it has citrulline, beta alanine etc those should not really require further testing at this point in the game. Either way Im excited as you put out great products and ive thoroughly enjoyed my follidrone and vector
I say yes and no.
Citrulline for example I would say works in the 6 to 8g range for modest vasodilation. There is enough research to support this.
But some ingredients there is less data or the data is inconsistent or dubious in nature. I'll try to exclude talking about specific ingredients negatively but let's say a company starts using an ingredient and selling an ingredient that they claim is a vasodilator or a performance enhancer etc etc. But most or all of the studies come from or are sponsored by them. It would leave me with serious doubts. When your writing the study you can pretty much say whatever you want. I can say ground up monkey fingernails will give you an erection but it's not until the studies have been peer reviewed and replicated that we have solid evidence.
So, we tested a bunch of things.
Some worked OK.
Some worked well.
Some failed miserably even after multiple attempts, multiple tests and retreats and all kinds of things to try to prove efficacy. 0 effect.

In addition as you guys know I like to use new ingredients and have our stuff on the cutting edge, however, I will not do so unless I can prove efficacy. So ALOT of stuff we tried just didn't work very well.
So the product is not all new ingredients. There are 2 relatively novel ingredients. One you will recognize and one you won't unless you are really doing research.

The best thing about this stuff?
It's very effective.
It's not stim based although there are low doses of stims.
For most, performance is noticeably improved. Plus some other bonuses ;)

My goal was to make a product that without any shadow of doubt I would personally purchase over any other possible option.

We have for sure succeeded.
 
brundel

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If theres beta alanine in this pre I will not be buying. I really hope you wouldnt do that, Brundle. I definitely dont see BLR as a company that would do that but i just want to say thatd be massively disappointing. Those of you who would like BA in a pre, i would love to hear why? The feelz, bro?
No beta alanine, creatine, citrulline, agmatine, arginine.
Your right. I would not do that.
 
00A

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I say yes and no.
Citrulline for example I would say works in the 6 to 8g range for modest vasodilation. There is enough research to support this.
But some ingredients there is less data or the data is inconsistent or dubious in nature. I'll try to exclude talking about specific ingredients negatively but let's say a company starts using an ingredient and selling an ingredient that they claim is a vasodilator or a performance enhancer etc etc. But most or all of the studies come from or are sponsored by them. It would leave me with serious doubts. When your writing the study you can pretty much say whatever you want. I can say ground up monkey fingernails will give you an erection but it's not until the studies have been peer reviewed and replicated that we have solid evidence.
So, we tested a bunch of things.
Some worked OK.
Some worked well.
Some failed miserably even after multiple attempts, multiple tests and retreats and all kinds of things to try to prove efficacy. 0 effect.

In addition as you guys know I like to use new ingredients and have our stuff on the cutting edge, however, I will not do so unless I can prove efficacy. So ALOT of stuff we tried just didn't work very well.
So the product is not all new ingredients. There are 2 relatively novel ingredients. One you will recognize and one you won't unless you are really doing research.

The best thing about this stuff?
It's very effective.
It's not stim based although there are low doses of stims.
For most, performance is noticeably improved. Plus some other bonuses ;)

My goal was to make a product that without any shadow of doubt I would personally purchase over any other possible option.

We have for sure succeeded.
Does this pre a 2 in 1 product.. erection enhancer? Hard as a rock? Recommend before sex hehe?
 
brundel

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Does this pre a 2 in 1 product.. erection enhancer? Hard as a rock? Recommend before sex hehe?
Well there is some evidence that at least one or two of the ingredients might assists with this yes.
Another brand of mine is working on a specific product for this. Once we are done Ill let you know ;)
 
00A

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Well there is some evidence that at least one or two of the ingredients might assists with this yes.
Another brand of mine is working on a specific product for this. Once we are done Ill let you know ;)
Sure, sounding very intresting..
 
00A

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Well there is some evidence that at least one or two of the ingredients might assists with this yes.
Another brand of mine is working on a specific product for this. Once we are done Ill let you know ;)
Sure, sounding very intresting..
 
TheMovement

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If theres beta alanine in this pre I will not be buying. I really hope you wouldnt do that, Brundle. I definitely dont see BLR as a company that would do that but i just want to say thatd be massively disappointing. Those of you who would like BA in a pre, i would love to hear why? The feelz, bro?
I would love if BA was included but I honestly attest to the endurance benefits over time. If I remember correctly once you reach saturation the tingles are nonexistent so I have never thought this was a true gauge of effectiveness. BLR may even support us with an everyday lineup. Theres something for everyone and I really believe BLR is providing a PREWORK that hasn't been on the market before. With that said:
 
Afi140

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I would love if BA was included but I honestly attest to the endurance benefits over time. If I remember correctly once you reach saturation the tingles are nonexistent so I have never thought this was a true gauge of effectiveness. BLR may even support us with an everyday lineup. Theres something for everyone and I really believe BLR is providing a PREWORK that hasn't been on the market before. With that said:
Peak 02>BA imo. Ba is effective I just hate the tingles now. I used to love them lol
 
TheMovement

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What, in your opinion, are the primary (lets say 3) effects you want from a pre workout product?
  1. Cognitive alertness
  2. Pumps
  3. Cardiorespiratory Improvements (Ive had one with menthol and it was amazing)
What, in your opinion, is the most effective single 1 or 2 ingredients in pre workout products?
  1. Cordyceps
  2. Caffeine (there is a sweet spot, most just seem to pass it)
What in your opinion, is commonly missing, not working properly in todays pre workout products?

The misconception that high doses of caffeine/designer stims justify a great preworkout. Im still a little more old school and do believe that high stimulant preworkouts are hurting many. Not many people engage in regular cardiorespiratory exercise. When I look at ergogenic aids I dont mind acute effects, but its the long term benefits that intrigue me the most.

Just some quick thoughts
 
TheMovement

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Peak 02>BA imo. Ba is effective I just hate the tingles now. I used to love them lol
I honestly cannot disagree there! Peak O2 has been great to me. Idk why but the tingles have never been make or break item for me.
 

Josh141090

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Well there is some evidence that at least one or two of the ingredients might assists with this yes.
Another brand of mine is working on a specific product for this. Once we are done Ill let you know ;)
What’s the other brand we should keep an eye on?
 
brundel

brundel

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What’s the other brand we should keep an eye on?
Currently it's 100% international.
I don't even want to say the name. I got out voted by my 2 partners and I refuse to say it until we bring it to USA and rebrand. It's embarrassing. Products sell well though ;)
We have 4 patents pending and at least 2 I think I'll use in blr products.
One is a new type of stimulant.
Currently trying to get NDI approval.

We have a wakefulness product
Libido product
Anti aging
Skin care line
We are also working on some killer bioavailability enhancement stuff.

Blr is like my baby. I make products for myself. I can put out great products just because they are great. But it has been funded 100% out of pocket from day one. Started with 216$
This is part of why things take time with blr.

With the other brand we have millions in funding so things move fast and I can afford actual clinical trials etc.

Give it till maybe August and I'll intro some stuff that's legitimately a whole new generation of supplement. If I can get approval from fda of course.
 
brundel

brundel

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We need some ingredient leaks Brundel start the process :)
I have to wait until we are in the product manufacture zone.
There are guys who see we are about to launch a new product and race to release theirs with the same ingredients. Nobody will admit it but the proof is in the product labels.

The good news is looking at the recent stuff coming out and comparing to this formula I don't think this pre will have any competition.

Should be within 14 days I think.
Im pushing fast but some raw material manufacturers are exceptionally slow and they are the only ones I trust with new stuff.

Soon bro.
Really this time. Soon.

Im gonna start working on product packaging over the weekend.
 
brundel

brundel

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No citrulline? :unsure: A mix of glycerol and nitrates could be good ;)
I don't think citrulline is bad. I just think it needs doses higher than is generally used. I think the 6 to 8g range is a good start and we could probably go 10g. Many products have 3 to 5. It's just pointless.

But this is a good point to start some discussions regarding formulation which is a big part of what this thread is for. We just need context.

So for starters, we have all of these pre workout supps. Thousands. Everyone has one. There are companies that have just that only.

Some disturbing trends are starting to emerge.
1. Ultra high doses of stimulants.
2. Ultra low doses of some ingredients.
3. Conflicting ingredients. For example 5g citrulline. And 600+mg stimulants. Do they think the citrulline is dilating blood vessels? It's not. For sure.
Part of the problem is the industry is of Shady characters. They know the vast majority don't understand the science of how these things work. Or are minimally educated.
So they add all the kitchen sink stuff knowing that one half of the formula counters the other half. May as well just drink a large coffee. Cauae that's all that's active.
3g creatine
5g citrulline
600 assorted stims.
Whatever else is popular.
Are these good products?
Effective?

Another exceptionally disturbing trend I have noticed recently....
Companies trying to get the cost of their products down so low.
So they will add a few super cheap ingredients. Then they add some trademarked or patented ingredients but at fractions of the active dose.

Like 25 to 50mg of ingredients that need 300 to 600mg.

Or adding stuff that has nothing to do with performance enhancement or in no way belongs in a pre.
Of course because they know the vast majority of their customers don't know the 50mg dose needs 600 to be effective.
Or they don't know that an ingredient is for soft skin or something.

At any rate it's a shame to see such scammy behavior and it's this stuff that makes the whole industry look bad.

We aim to make a difference.
 
rodefeeh

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Subbed for discussion.

One of my favorite stacks lately is Vasoblitz + Orange Brainwash with extra caffeine and Taurine. This satisfies my preworkout needs.
 
brundel

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I think the overall goal would be to have a single product that gets the job done.
Unless you want ultra high stimulants in which case caffeine is extremely cheap by the kilo.
I do think for sure there is a threshold where stimulants become counter productive. IN addition daily use starts to create a state where you are reliant just to get by. Stim addiction sucks the life out of you.
So we for sure wont be reliant on CNS stims at all in our product.
 
brundel

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Seems like the new forum software has slowed things down quite a bit.
Ill bump this thread.
 

dcoen21

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The new software makes it more difficult when I go through a browser on my phone. Hard for me to figure out what’s new unlike before. Will cop be in the formula, if not what are you thoughts on it?
 
brundel

brundel

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The new software makes it more difficult when I go through a browser on my phone. Hard for me to figure out what’s new unlike before. Will cop be in the formula, if not what are you thoughts on it?
I think creatinol o Phosphate is ok.
Its not in the formula. I have taken it (several bottles) and saw 0 from it.
 
brundel

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Also I think this was a big part of the problem formulating this product. So many of the ingredients everyone relies on are terrible.
Even this one didnt work super well when we tested them. I wont use us as an example though. Instead, Ill post other research.


Supplementation with 8 g of CM (citrulline malate) 40 minutes before the barbell bench press resistance exercise protocol did not increase exercise performance, augment the muscle swelling response to training, or alter subjective measures of focus, energy, and fatigue in recreationally resistance-trained men.

Keep in mind they used 8grams.
0 effect on performance, pump or anything else tested.
How many products have 3-5g citrulline as their backbone. ALOT.
 
brundel

brundel

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Also wanted to ask you guys what you think of PEAK02?
 
TheMovement

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Also wanted to ask you guys what you think of PEAK02?
Great benefit IMO. One of the small selection of things that benefit endurance imo.
 
00A

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Also I think this was a big part of the problem formulating this product. So many of the ingredients everyone relies on are terrible.
Even this one didnt work super well when we tested them. I wont use us as an example though. Instead, Ill post other research.


Supplementation with 8 g of CM (citrulline malate) 40 minutes before the barbell bench press resistance exercise protocol did not increase exercise performance, augment the muscle swelling response to training, or alter subjective measures of focus, energy, and fatigue in recreationally resistance-trained men.

Keep in mind they used 8grams.
0 effect on performance, pump or anything else tested.
How many products have 3-5g citrulline as their backbone. ALOT.
I been trying to explain this to ppl on this forum and often called as being negative and somehow blocking the forum reps or some ****.. its ok for ppl to express opinion.. underdosed products always catch my eye as I understand clinical dosages
 
brundel

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I been trying to explain this to ppl on this forum and often called as being negative and somehow blocking the forum reps or some ****.. its ok for ppl to express opinion.. underdosed products always catch my eye as I understand clinical dosages
Well those of you who have been here a while know I frequently get bashed for telling the truth. We test all kinds of stuff including common ingredients for comparison. So many common ingredients are basically worthless. Then you have whole products based off of them with some caffeine added. Which means your 1.5 to 2$ a serving pre is just 10c worth of caffeine! Many take 2 scoops making it 3.5+$ a dose.
And many of the products only have 20 doses per bottle. Its nuts.
 

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