FINALLY coming off

ssbackwards

Well-known member
OK so ive been on for over a year.

Cruising and blasting ... I mainly cruise when dieting and blast when bulking. but right now im maintaining. So i plan on coming off.

People always ask me how to recover from a cycle. so i figure ill post in here what im doing.

Last shot was yest 12/19.. it was 250mg SUST.

i am waiting until SATURDAY to start hCG.

hCG will be dosed on 12/24. 2000iu then on tuesday 12/28 1000iu, then friday (i think my dates are off) 500iu, i will do e3 day

total hCG shots will be 6. it will be about 2.5 weeks.

While doing that, on the higher iu days will be 1mg of adex. lower iu day .5mg adex.

the DAY of my last shot of hCG i am starting a vigorous PCT course.

Mon/wed/frid: 100mg clomid, 40mg nolva
Tuesday/thursday/saturday: 100 clomid 60mg torem (may do 90mg but feel 60 will suffice)
Sunday: just 100mg clomid

It will be the above for 3weeks. After that i drop it by .5mL each week.

i will be using adex in the beginning just untill i feel my libido and wood is where i want it. then i will stop and continue serm therapy

at week 4 and 5 i will add 12.5mg aromasin ed for about 10-14 days to render the aromatase enzyme inactive and keep estrogen and libido right where i want it.

will continue serm 1 week after the sin is done.

I will then come off Serms after the 6 weeks.

HOWEVER i may stay on the serms another 2 weeks at that low dose if i feel im not where i want to be.

i have a ton of boosters if i feel i want them.

I will more then likely after SERM therapy add the following.

Primal Male EVERY OTHER DAY (i3C bothers my libido)
Natty V Every day
Perform (maybe that one bothers my stomach)


I have some stoked as well, not sure i want to use the trans res as it is a mild SSRI, and just coming off cycle i am a little iffy on that. I also have some horny goat weed caps, and trib caps.

Ask away with your questions comments or concerns.
 
I'd like to see pics....if you have before and afters that'd be cool....just be interesting to see what a year of blasting and cruising did for you
 
wasnt much since i bulked then cut then bulked then cut now maintain.

i may have pics, thing is significant muscle loss from last cut due to extreme dieting to fight at a certain weight. i should have pics
 
today i will reconstitute my hCG:

5000iu
2mL bacteriostatic water.

dosing will look like this.

.75 mL= 1875iu 12/24
.5 mL= 1250iu 12/27
.25 mL= 625 iu 12/30
.25 mL= 625 iu 1/2
.25 mL= 625 iu 1/5

5 shots total.

day of shot 5 will start the SERMs which is a THURSDAY.

so i may just start it on the day before the 4th shot which is a sunday, and do 150mg clomid to start like i always do. then monday start the above protocol.

seems like a plan. i shall do it. it will be fun... not really.
 
Interested to see how this goes. Will you be getting blood work done to see what your hormones have stabilized to?
 
san731 said:
Interested to see how this goes. Will you be getting blood work done to see what your hormones have stabilized to?
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its possible i will, i just got levels checked in august while on a G of T a week....

im very focused right now to base things off how im feeling, which i know how i feel when i am on 250mg sust a week, so i will base everything off that. just until PCT is done then may wait a few weeks to get levels checked to see how much of the SERM therapy stuck.
 
ok nothing to report, past 2 days libido was good.

.25mg adex tonight,

1mg tomorrow with my 1250iu of hCG

then itll be 2 shots down and 3 to go.
 
subd... good luck... how many months were you on?
 
essentially clomid is the base of the PCT, i alternate between nolva and torem, and have a clomid only day on sunday.

fairly easy, the adex is used during hCG to prevent lesions on the leydig cells.

adex is used to control somewhat that emotional problem people speeak of. prolly why i never got it.

once adex is controling my libido i hop on the steroidal AI to prevent and further reoccurance of e2, and the SERMs will take care of estrone, and will limit the estrone converstion to estradiol, which is the cause of rebound gyno.
 
gymrat827 said:
i think those serm doses are sky high. esp for 3wks. but to each his own
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its what ive always used...

unless it was mild cycle then pct would be 3-4 weeks, found out its 6 weeks that works best in all situations.

i like the higher doses. and tapering down. seems to work well for me
 
itll be hard to tell a difference, however i have a few.... ill try and see if i can get em to my email.

from sept last year till recent.

ill only do like 1 pic every few months, i definetly have them its a matter of my lazyness to put em up.
 
ok from 9 23 10- 1 14 11 i bulked. from 1/14/11 to 5/19/11 i cut, from 5/20/11 i bulked till 9/20/11, then cut till now, however it was way to extreme at end of begining of oct i found out i had 4 weeks till a photo shoot, had a fight 2 weeks after, and had stopped lifting to train for fight. and broke my thumb, and beginning of sept had a kidney infection that had me urinating blood for 3 days so in sept i was 203, dropped to 197, then i had to get to 177 by nov 19th. currently sitting at 185 now.

9/23
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1/14/11
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3/29/11
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5/19/11
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9/20/11
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10/19/11
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11/5/11
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12/6/11
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12/19/11
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12/26/11 after Refeeding
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there it is
 
Some info on Serms.

but first a little lecture...

Men have less Leptin in general than women. It is the estrogen in women that keep their leptin levels higher. These levels go even higher during pregnancy to help with fetal growth. What does this mean..

well essentially SERMs are estrogen agonist./antagonist in certain tissues. This means that SERM increase leptin levels.

My take on this phenomina. While in a bulk it may cause a sort of leptin resistance and will in essence make you fatter in PCT or sfter in pct due to those issues, in lean individuals this can be quite a good thing.

Leptin controls energy balance. With that said when levels are high your body secretes catecholamines. Good. bad if its too much. But with leptin, it seems to peak a couple hours after sleep and then drop before rising to aid in morning cortisol release (leptin blunts cortisol).

My plan is to take my SERMs 2-3 hours before bed, so my leptin levels peak even higher, so by the time i wake up, i shouldnt be too hungry and my body should be primed even more for fat burning potential. on top of that, estrogen is highest at night.

Now with all this said, its speculation not fact that the leptin will peak higher, however, you can train your leptin rhythm with consistancy ie carbs late at night, and enhanced fat burning (too lazy to get the study)

so i am hoping the science proves right, and i get a little leaner in PCT, and maintain good rhythmic function of hormones.
 
that was a yr on cycle, are you sure it wasnt a yr on the tattoo table. i see more definition but you should have made way more progress i would think. you should take a hard look at your diet and plan a lil more around that to make some better gains and not think about pct so much when all ya need is clomid 75,50,50,25mg 4 weeks maybe another week at 25mg and your done.
 
wheeliegsxr said:
that was a yr on cycle, are you sure it wasnt a yr on the tattoo table. i see more definition but you should have made way more progress i would think. you should take a hard look at your diet and plan a lil more around that to make some better gains and not think about pct so much when all ya need is clomid 75,50,50,25mg 4 weeks maybe another week at 25mg and your done.
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as you can tell i did gain more muscle, however like i said, between kidney infection then training for the fight i had to give some up. otherwise i would have made better gains.

along with it, there was a cutting period, for 4 months.

the year ON cycle wasnt really a year, as the times i cut, i was only on 125-250mg test. i would have tried to put on more (get over 200 again) but then i found out i had the photo shoot and had to cut (if you read my post about it). at one point i was over 200, yet got a kidney infection and lost some weight, then i just kinda stayed there (197) then had to get ready for a shoot (found out 4 weeks before hand) so i had dropped way to much way to quick.

diets always spot on. but i try and stay lean, and not to bulky as it is a part of the sport i like to compete in
 
Not a fan of hCG as part of pct. i dont see how adding exogenous LH will help your HPTA recover. Maybe it is warranted due to the amount of time you were on cycle though? An LH mimic (hCG) will undermine your recovery IMO
 
hahaha.... ya sounds good bro. im more of a bodybuilder well im trying to be and when i get on cycle i go nuts, even more than normal. i never miss a meal even when im sick i always sick to the foods that i know will benifit my body as much as possible and i never strey from my plan. i do howev struggle wit a lil depression from time to time bc of work and my lifestyle, this really hurts my gains but so far ive been on cycle for 6 mo running test e @ 500mg wk and recently added deca starting @250mg wk and tapered up to 400mg wk. ive gained about 30lbs of lean muscle, ive recently hit a wall but im starting to add more carbs and have started gaining weight again. as for fighting ive never done it competitivly but i respect that sport and if bodybuilding doesnt pan out ive thought about training in the ring.
 
wheeliegsxr said:
hahaha.... ya sounds good bro. im more of a bodybuilder well im trying to be and when i get on cycle i go nuts, even more than normal. i never miss a meal even when im sick i always sick to the foods that i know will benifit my body as much as possible and i never strey from my plan. i do howev struggle wit a lil depression from time to time bc of work and my lifestyle, this really hurts my gains but so far ive been on cycle for 6 mo running test e @ 500mg wk and recently added deca starting @250mg wk and tapered up to 400mg wk. ive gained about 30lbs of lean muscle, ive recently hit a wall but im starting to add more carbs and have started gaining weight again. as for fighting ive never done it competitivly but i respect that sport and if bodybuilding doesnt pan out ive thought about training in the ring.
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yea from end of may to mid sept i put on 23, then i had gotten that infection, lost about 6. then photoshoot, didnt have time to solidify much. then i was supposed to fight at 185-190, ended up at 177 pain in my ass but is what it is, i cut thouhg on like 125-250 test. thats really it aside from burners
 
JudoJosh said:
Not a fan of hCG as part of pct. i dont see how adding exogenous LH will help your HPTA recover. Maybe it is warranted due to the amount of time you were on cycle though? An LH mimic (hCG) will undermine your recovery IMO
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yes and no... think of the time frame at which i am running it.. 5 days after last shot of sust (long ester) for 5 shots (ends up 2 weeks)

so by the time SERMs start. hCG is essentially DONE. its within that washout phase where im clearing it out of my system.. as levels are dropping i use hCG to stimulate testes. This way im primed and ready to go come PCT.

by mimicing LH it makes my testis produce more test. essentially kickstarting. no matter what anyone says, this works.

everyday stimulation..

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e3d stim is different but high doses i wouldnt see how it wouldnt create hyperplasia

[h=1]Kinetics of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin-Induced Steroidogenic Response of the Human Testis. I. Plasma Testosterone: Implications for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Stimulation Test*[/h]
  • Invalid Link Removed and
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- Author Affiliations
  • Unite de Recherches sur le Controle Hormonal des Activites Cellulaires, INSERM U. 162, and Unite de Recherches Endocriniennes et Metaboliques chez I’Enfant, INSERM U. 34, Hopital Debrousse 69322 Lyon Cedex 1, France
[h=2]Abstract[/h]The profiles of plasma testosterone and hCG in normal adult men were studied after the administration of 6000 IU hCG under three different protocols. In the first protocol, seven subjects received a single im injection. Plasma testosterone increased sharply (1.6 ± 0.1-fold) within 4 h. Then testosterone decreased slightly and remained at a plateau level for at least 24 h. A delayed peak of testosterone (2.4 ± 0.3-fold) was seen between 72–96 h. Thereafter, testosterone declined and reached the initial levels at 144 h. In the second protocol, six subjects received two iv injections of hCG at 24-h intervals. The initial increment of plasma testosterone after the first injection was similar to that seen in the first protocol despite the fact that plasma hCG levels were 5–8 times higher in this case. At 24 h, testosterone levels were again lower than those observed at 2–4h and a second iv injection of hCG did not induce a significant increase. The delayed peak of plasma testosterone (2.2 ± 0.2-fold of control) was seen about 24 h later than that in the first protocol. Four subjects were studied in the third protocol, which consisted of four iv injections of hCG on days 0, 5, 10, and 15. Basal testosterone levels on days 5, 10, and 15 were significantly higher (P < 0.001) than those of control. Moreover, the hCG injection on days 5 and 10 produced, within 2–4 h, a significant increment of plasma testosterone (P < 0.01).
These results suggest that in man, as in other species, hCG might induce a testicular steroidogenic desensitization. Moreover, our data raise question of the rational of daily hCG injection as used in the current protocols investigating human testicular function.

so take 6000 iu into 4 shots... les desentiation, but that desentiation comes from estradiol solved by aromatase inhibitor. but the hCG high doses causes lesions on leydig cells which also blunted by reducing estrogen...

have study of that on other computer.
 
ssbackwards said:
yes and no... think of the time frame at which i am running it.. 5 days after last shot of sust (long ester) for 5 shots (ends up 2 weeks)

so by the time SERMs start. hCG is essentially DONE. its within that washout phase where im clearing it out of my system.. as levels are dropping i use hCG to stimulate testes. This way im primed and ready to go come PCT.
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ahhh my bad.. I overlooked/didnt take into account that. In this case I can agree, having a small overlap of hCG during the clear out of the exogenous androgens, is fine IMO. My comment was more at the idea of hCG use throughout PCT as it can cause shutdown itself (via negative feedback loop), but I see now that is not the case here.

ssbackwards said:
by mimicing LH it makes my testis produce more test. essentially kickstarting. no matter what anyone says, this works.
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Most certainly a LH mimic will encourage mire test production but using it during PCT will only further suppress yourself. IMO the purpose of PCT is to encourage natural LH production and using exogenous LH throughout PCT will undermine this IMO.
 
Oh P.S

I git this chicken and pepper dish I made last night that was pretty good (although it was low on the fat side). I will send you the recipe if you like ;)
 
JudoJosh said:
ahhh my bad.. I overlooked/didnt take into account that. In this case I can agree, having a small overlap of hCG during the clear out of the exogenous androgens, is fine IMO. My comment was more at the idea of hCG use throughout PCT as it can cause shutdown itself (via negative feedback loop), but I see now that is not the case here.



Most certainly a LH mimic will encourage mire test production but using it during PCT will only further suppress yourself. IMO the purpose of PCT is to encourage natural LH production and using exogenous LH throughout PCT will undermine this IMO.
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yea i hear ya, i mean techinically its not PCT im using it in, its pre PCT. i wouldnt use it IN pct with my serms as a part of therapy
 
JudoJosh said:
Oh P.S

I git this chicken and pepper dish I made last night that was pretty good (although it was low on the fat side). I will send you the recipe if you like ;)
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all for it man.

i can always add in chorizo or anduilli sausage to it.

and that chili dish i told you bout. broski i ate 3 lbs of ground turkey 93/7 with 6 oz goat cheese and 3 big bell peppers and 2 onions. in one sitting. post workout.

2600 cals. what up now haha in like 6 hours ill have some pecan mac butter with my woman. then goto bed.

ill eat a real meal again tomorrow. is technically about a 22 hour fast with 300 calories snuck in there (tonight) haha
 
ssbackwards said:
yea i hear ya, i mean techinically its not PCT im using it in, its pre PCT. i wouldnt use it IN pct with my serms as a part of therapy
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You would be surprised at how many people thing hCG should be a part of PCT

ssbackwards said:
ill have some pecan mac butter with my woman. then goto bed.
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Do you make these nut butters yourself? Or you buy them made?
 
JudoJosh said:
You would be surprised at how many people thing hCG should be a part of PCT



Do you make these nut butters yourself? Or you buy them made?
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that cuisinart thing is the ****.

make them myself....

then when i use it i do 2 tablespoons, plus some INULIN to soak up some of the oil (since its kinds liquidy)some walden farms chocolate syrup.

yum
 
ssbackwards said:
that cuisinart thing is the ****.

make them myself....

then when i use it i do 2 tablespoons, plus some INULIN to soak up some of the oil (since its kinds liquidy)some walden farms chocolate syrup.

yum
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Food processor or their nut grinder?

Is this more or less how you make your butters - Invalid Link Removed
 
update.

11 days of SERMS complete. (had 2 shots hCG during first week of SERMS, 1 week since last hCG shot)

feel good, strenth the same maybe up a bit (1.5x BW for 10 on deads), body comp about the same, maybe a tad leaner, diet the same, weight within an LB starting.

feel good, started aromasin yesterday will do 25mg for about 7 days then 12.5 for a remaining 7. WIll then stop and star back up again 2 weeks prior to end of pct
 
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