Females have 6th sense for TESTOSTERONE

[Bintherduntht]

Trt should put you over 800. Maybe up that dose.

What is the standard ng/dl? What does that stand for?

 

[RickyBlobby]

Nanograms per deciliter. Normal is 500-900 IMO

 

[YoungThor]

There’s an hrt doctor on YouTube who claims there’s no benefit to getting on testosterone if it doesn’t get you over 800. That’s the minimum and he likes to see around 1000.

 

[kisaj]

There’s an hrt doctor on YouTube who claims there’s no benefit to getting on testosterone if it doesn’t get you over 800. That’s the minimum and he likes to see around 1000.

Well that "doctor" is an idiot and it's no wonder he is on Youtube.

 

[YoungThor]

Well that "doctor" is an idiot and it's no wonder he is on Youtube.

It wasn’t a claim he made out of thin air, it was based on studies and what he sees in his patients. But believe what you want.

 

[YoungThor]

Well that "doctor" is an idiot and it's no wonder he is on Youtube.

It’s not like it’s his YouTube channel, he volunteers to do it for a bodybuilding magazine or website. The guy works with professional athletes and I’m pretty sure he’s more knowledgeable about steroids then your hrt doctor.

 

[RickyBlobby]

Oklahoma Men's Clinic wanted to keep my levels around 1300 plus they did HCG injections to. Cost was high though, like $300 a month if I remember right. F that. Self administered..... $5 a month. No HCG though so gotta deal with baby nads

 

[kisaj]

It’s not like it’s his YouTube channel, he volunteers to do it for a bodybuilding magazine or website. The guy works with professional athletes and I’m pretty sure he’s more knowledgeable about steroids then your hrt doctor.

We aren't talking about steroids, we are talking about HRT. So I have no doubt he knows more.

But, you continue to get your guidance from Youtube and I will continue to work with actual specialists and get my lab work done as always.

 

[Lionheart1776]

Oklahoma Men's Clinic wanted to keep my levels around 1300 plus they did HCG injections to. Cost was high though, like $300 a month if I remember right. F that. Self administered..... $5 a month. No HCG though so gotta deal with baby nads

Having small balls is a good ****ing thing, it makes your dick look bigger! All about the dick to balls ratio at the end of the day :32:

 

[YoungThor]

We aren't talking about steroids, we are talking about HRT. So I have no doubt he knows more.

But, you continue to get your guidance from Youtube and I will continue to work with actual specialists and get my lab work done as always.

So if you’re a specialist who makes a YouTube video, now you’re no longer a specialist? Whatever. Do what feels good for you but I believe getting on hrt and only being at 600 is a little low. Everyone’s body is different of course and that may make you feel great but for many other men that wouldn’t suffice.

 

[fueledpassion]

Chasing numbers is a dangerous game. TRT is for addressing symptoms and overall health, not trying to obtain some number. Some guys feel good at 900, others feel better at 600. It's individualistic.

A frustrating truth.

 

[fueledpassion]

Indeed, most notably bc of our intelect being able to recognise that it's existence is finite. That consciousness has an expiration date. Thus enters culture and all formal systems that are highly conventional. This systems in turn help us deal with the anxiety that is caused by our understanding that death is inevitable. This is really mildly put. The discourse extends firstly to terror management theory and then forward to structuralism, post structuralism, semiotics, etc.

To continue your thought; all living conscious human beings have anxiety about failure, decadence, ie. death. Closer you are to it: no stable job, no apartment, kids, partner, bad career prospects, etc. the more you feel it. It's the monster behind the dark corner, it's the human animal that will kill or hurt you withouth remorse, it's the alien and monsters that chase you in your dreams, it's death. It was Ernest Beckers proposition that basically all that we do comes from denial of death, we are shielding our selfs from it with culture, rules, houses, jobs, money, muscles.

Right. And what do you think would happen to someone's conscience and character is they genuinely did not believe they would taste the sting of death nor fear it but rather were convinced they would continue to live on in a more ideal state of being, perceiving physical death as a necessary step to freeing the soul to something greater?

Like it or not, believe it or not, live it or not, if we did not fear death and did not concern ourselves with survival in the flesh, we could then overcome the fearful & incredibly selfish behaviors you just outlined above. We could rise above our 'instinctive effort to survive', putting the death the monsters of selfishness, mortality & fear itself. For those that actually get it right and contemplate deeply about what it all means, this is precisely what Christianity has been offering societies for over five millennia, not two. This belief pre-dates even the Samaritan societies by the Thracians, around 5000-5500 years ago.

What would life look like to you if you didn't fear death? You probably wouldn't be talking about how women like extra testosterone, for instance.

Yep, I just went there, lol.

 

[RickyBlobby]

Having small balls is a good ****ing thing, it makes your dick look bigger! All about the dick to balls ratio at the end of the day :32:

Haha. I definitely have an advantage then. Some days I cant feel em at all lol.

 

[fueledpassion]

Idk I'm not saying your wrong but...

When I go off test, my confidence drops, my performance at work and in relationships drop.. Could be just me.

But I know people can tell you're different when you're on. You're more energetic, confident, and women can sense it. It's animalistic

What exactly does animalistic mean?

But let's figure something else out too. You are pre-supposing that your perspective about the world around you and others perspective of you are mutually exclusive. Do they have to be though?

Does not your perspective about things influence and alter others perspective about those same things? If you are more confident & more certain of your capability to do things, would it not also be possible that others adjust their belief accordingly? Contemplate this:

I personally believe that leadership is just another term for someone who is able to influence others to bend to their will. Leading essentially means others are following and since the leader is the one determining the direction, the leader is the one influencing the followers. Therefore, leading is influencing. I say all this to ask this question: Isn't that what we're talking about here in the context of women being more interested and attracted to men on Test - Women bending to your will via more perceived confidence in you?

Can you be a leader (influencer) if you are unconfident and uncertain of your held beliefs about something? Can you possibly expect to influence others when you are double-minded about the topic at hand? It's a rhetorical question.

So the Test is undoubtedly changing your brain, your circuitry, your hormones and confidence and it is changing your behavior to others (and your own self-esteem) in a positive, contagious way. So naturally, others start adjusting their interactions with you. The point is that they didn't change your circumstance, rather, they adjusted to you changing it.

What I meant to convey is that others are adjusting their perspective of you in response to you adjusting your perspective of them, because you are perceiving the world around you differently. People orient themselves to others based on what characteristics, decisions and actions that other exude in their social interaction. They don't "sense" the greater Testosterone in you, they sense the greater certainty, confidence and forthrightness in you - and you don't need 5-fold testosterone increases to possess such qualities. Sure, it helps. But it isn't a pre-requisite for those things. Learn to possess that confidence without it and you'll be nearly unstoppable with it.

 

[fueledpassion]

They've really left anything semi normal behind. The training is barely important. Just insane gh and insulin use, shovelling ten k calories in, being immobile and severely unhealthy. Look at how old these guys look. Dennis Wolf looks 60 at 38. Dallas Mcarver looked 45 at 25. Look out for these pros dropping dead a lot more often than the 90s guys.

There is some truth to this, surely, but I also think you might be wildly underplaying the discipline card. It's tempting to think these guys aren't really disciplined and are just riding on GH, insulin & androgens to get huge. Thing is, if it were that easy, more people would look like them. Period.

It takes years of back and forth cutting and bulking and eating and starving. I've done enough things to know that there is no amount of gear that will get you as big as the pros without requiring extreme persistence to the bodybuilding lifestyle - something only the most motivated people can muster. The amount of discipline it requires to get that sort of body is unreal and most professional athletes of other sports would buckle 6 months into the effort - simply because it requires FAR more attention to detail & social sacrifice than training alone. Most of the success comes from the power of your mind. You can morph the crap out of your body over time if you have the proper imagination and belief that you can attain such. There is a reason Flex Lewis runs around saying "Believe to achieve".

I'm not downplaying the gear and genetics - those are pre-requisites. But let's be honest about something, If you have all the gear and won big on the genetic lottery and have no discipline, you will never succeed at anything more than a small, novice show in bodybuilding. So of the various ingredients, the most essential of them is working your tail off and being persistent about it - which is precisely the truth that people want to downplay because it's the one that hurts the most to know.

You can be a competitive pro bodybuilder at 230-270lbs with average genetics and lots of discipline, but you can't be competitive at that level with great genetics and no discipline. Ain't happening. You'll get beat by the guy who worked harder and has been at it longer than you.

 

[YoungThor]

What exactly does animalistic mean?

But let's figure something else out too. You are pre-supposing that your perspective about the world around you and others perspective of you are mutually exclusive. Do they have to be though?

Does not your perspective about things influence and alter others perspective about those same things? If you are more confident & more certain of your capability to do things, would it not also be possible that others adjust their belief accordingly? Contemplate this:

I personally believe that leadership is just another term for someone who is able to influence others to bend to their will. Leading essentially means others are following and since the leader is the one determining the direction, the leader is the one influencing the followers. Therefore, leading is influencing. I say all this to ask this question: Isn't that what we're talking about here in the context of women being more interested and attracted to men on Test - Women bending to your will via more perceived confidence in you?

Can you be a leader (influencer) if you are unconfident and uncertain of your held beliefs about something? Can you possibly expect to influence others when you are double-minded about the topic at hand? It's a rhetorical question.

So the Test is undoubtedly changing your brain, your circuitry, your hormones and confidence and it is changing your behavior to others (and your own self-esteem) in a positive, contagious way. So naturally, others start adjusting their interactions with you. The point is that they didn't change your circumstance, rather, they adjusted to you changing it.

What I meant to convey is that others are adjusting their perspective of you in response to you adjusting your perspective of them, because you are perceiving the world around you differently. People orient themselves to others based on what characteristics, decisions and actions that other exude in their social interaction. They don't "sense" the greater Testosterone in you, they sense the greater certainty, confidence and forthrightness in you - and you don't need 5-fold testosterone increases to possess such qualities. Sure, it helps. But it isn't a pre-requisite for those things. Learn to possess that confidence without it and you'll be nearly unstoppable with it.

Very well said.

 

[Alistair_]

Chasing numbers is a dangerous game. TRT is for addressing symptoms and overall health, not trying to obtain some number. Some guys feel good at 900, others feel better at 600. It's individualistic.

True that everyone is different and I feel best at a dose of 300mg to 500mg but that’s way too much for health reasons so I basically have to look at the numbers to make sure my testosterone level isn’t too high.

 

[fueledpassion]

We aren't talking about steroids, we are talking about HRT. So I have no doubt he knows more.

But, you continue to get your guidance from Youtube and I will continue to work with actual specialists and get my lab work done as always.

YouTube in itself isn't a credential statement. The individual that you take advice from on YT is the one with credentials (or lack thereof). It is the watchers due diligence to see if those things be true via other research. You don't need to pay $50K - $250K to have knowledge or expertise on a subject anymore. But I'm sure you know that and I don't suppose you were even contesting that fact.

But for those that have invested all their life into the knowledge base of the dated university system, I can see how online platforms like YT & Patreon are threatening because it suggests that the university credentials might not be worth what is paid for it.

Anyways, YT has created a new platform, a second Gutenberg Press, that is going to change the world very rapidly.

Starting with the destruction of the university & the main stream media. And their hubris won't allow them to even realize it as it happens.

 

[kisaj]

YouTube in itself isn't a credential statement. The individual that you take advice from on YT is the one with credentials (or lack thereof). It is the watchers due diligence to see if those things be true via other research. You don't need to pay $50K - $250K to have knowledge or expertise on a subject anymore. But I'm sure you know that and I don't suppose you were even contesting that fact.

But for those that have invested all their life into the knowledge base of the dated university system, I can see how online platforms like YT & Patreon are threatening because it suggests that the university credentials might not be worth what is paid for it.

Anyways, YT has created a new platform, a second Gutenberg Press, that is going to change the world very rapidly.

Starting with the destruction of the university & the main stream media. And their hubris won't allow them to even realize it as it happens.

I don't disagree with any of this and I would emphasize the fact that research from multiple avenues should always be done, there is so much information on any given topic available to us, that there is no excuse. However, the ease of access and the lack of any oversight from social media platforms is a problem because you arm people with knowledge that may or may not have any actual factual basis and say it enough, it becomes true. Now, we of course know that this can happen with anything including our own medical professionals, but the simple access is the difference. Now you get someone on YouTube making an opinion regarding what he likes to see with testosterone levels and you get a Young Thor seeing it and believing that is how it should be when even a minimal amount of research would prove that there is no validity to that.

Anyway, thread properly derailed now. Lol.

 

[RickyBlobby]

This is getting deep.

Regardless of pathway of action. When you're "on", hotter girls than normal check you out and you notice BC you're already checking out every girl lol. You're a beast and they want to be ravaged. Dirty sluts.

 

[Wobmarvel]

Right. And what do you think would happen to someone's conscience and character is they genuinely did not believe they would taste the sting of death nor fear it but rather were convinced they would continue to live on in a more ideal state of being, perceiving physical death as a necessary step to freeing the soul to something greater?

Like it or not, believe it or not, live it or not, if we did not fear death and did not concern ourselves with survival in the flesh, we could then overcome the fearful & incredibly selfish behaviors you just outlined above. We could rise above our 'instinctive effort to survive', putting the death the monsters of selfishness, mortality & fear itself. For those that actually get it right and contemplate deeply about what it all means, this is precisely what Christianity has been offering societies for over five millennia, not two. This belief pre-dates even the Samaritan societies by the Thracians, around 5000-5500 years ago.

What would life look like to you if you didn't fear death? You probably wouldn't be talking about how women like extra testosterone, for instance.

Yep, I just went there, lol.

Sorry, but that wasn't Christianity. It's a lot of the same beliefs but like it or not Christianity wasn't around 5000 years ago, it was invented later. Just because early Christian founders stole ideas from previous religions does not mean they can claim that all of those other civilisations from aztecs to ancient Greeks to Egyptians were actually Christians without knowing it. That would be as disrespectful as Christians would think I'm being right now.

 

[RickyBlobby]

opcorn:

 

[YoungThor]

This is getting deep.

Regardless of pathway of action. When you're "on", hotter girls than normal check you out and you notice BC you're already checking out every girl lol. You're a beast and they want to be ravaged. Dirty sluts.

I think you’re definitely paying more attention to every girl who walks by and you check to see if they’re checking you out more when you’re on. Girls want to f*ck as much as guys do but they have to be sly about it because of cultural norms.

 

[RickyBlobby]

I think you’re definitely paying more attention to every girl who walks by and you check to see if they’re checking you out more when you’re on. Girls want to f*ck as much as guys do but they have to be sly about it because of cultural norms.

Could you imagine how much fukkin would be going on if girls acted just like dudes? Every public restroom stall would be bellowing with moans.

 

[YoungThor]

Could you imagine how much fukkin would be going on if girls acted just like dudes? Every public restroom stall would be bellowing with moans.

Hahaha yeah and we’d still be living in caves because nothing would get done.

 

[Brenwad]

Seth Feroce cruises on 175mg of Test C a week. You’re not bigger than him and 300 a week will eventually bite you in the ass long term.

If you believe that you'll believe anything! I am bigger than Feroce height and weight wise anyway,the guys a midget. Pretty weird of guys to be whining about 300mhs of test a,week on a forum dedicated to system destroying short cycles of garbage prohormones.

 

[RickyBlobby]

Not everyone is comfortable commiting felonies and not everyone's old lady/ folks are cool with them sticking a needle in their ass.
If this forum is so bad then why waste your time frequenting it?

 

[GreekTheBrick]

Could you imagine how much fukkin would be going on if girls acted just like dudes? Every public restroom stall would be bellowing with moans.

Sexual liberation was just around the corner, during the 60s where women didnt wear undearwear, public nudity was accepted, people were participating in orgies while smoking marijuana, etc. Those must have been good times

 

[BennyMagoo79]

Are those lions homo or what?

 

[Newth]

Are those lions homo or what?

Doubt it, I just like showing a pic like that when people say we are the only species that does homo.

 

[HellAtlantic]

The thing I don’t understand about girls and testosterone and libido (jumping on an earlier comment about how girls wanna **** just as much as guys): girls have significantly less testosterone in their bodies then men but how is it they (girls) can have a healthy libido with extremely low test but men with low test have little to no libido? That’s crazy when you think about it. What is it about girls that allows them to have as much of a sex drive as guys but with way less test?

 

[RickyBlobby]

The thing I don’t understand about girls and testosterone and libido (jumping on an earlier comment about how girls wanna **** just as much as guys): girls have significantly less testosterone in their bodies then men but how is it they (girls) can have a healthy libido with extremely low test but men with low test have little to no libido? That’s crazy when you think about it. What is it about girls that allows them to have as much of a sex drive as guys but with way less test?

I guess estrogen makes you hot in the drawz too.... for dudes

 

[YoungThor]

I guess estrogen makes you hot in the drawz too.... for dudes

Yeah, and their testosterone requirement is much lower. It’s a more potent hormone for them. While men can have fluctuations of a few hundred ng/dl and not feel it, a woman would experience some serious adverse reactions, like masculinization, if this were to occur to them. But there’s more to libido than testosterone alone. There’s plenty of men out there that have relatively low test levels and their libido is healthy.

 

[Jinsun]

Yeah, and their testosterone requirement is much lower. It’s a more potent hormone for them. While men can have fluctuations of a few hundred ng/dl and not feel it, a woman would experience some serious adverse reactions, like masculinization, if this were to occur to them. But there’s more to libido than testosterone alone. There’s plenty of men out there that have relatively low test levels and their libido is healthy.

DHT not Test influences libido. Don't know if test by it self has any direct action for libido...? So if you are a bigger 5 alpha reductase guy, ie. u a horny mofo, you will need less test to produce the same amount of dht. I for instance have natural TT at upper lab range but DHT at lower lab range. Also depends on how much SHBG you have as that will determine how much free test you have. Which is important as I think only FT can convert to DHT.

 

[HellAtlantic]

What’s effective at lowering SHBG/upping DHT?

 

[Jinsun]

What’s effective at lowering SHBG/upping DHT?

Cant do much about upping dht except to free as much test as possible. You can take synthetic dht like proviron or dht PH's like epiandro.

For lowering shbg: most aas do it like anavar, winny, etc. Also proviron does it and aromatase inhibitors. There are also some natural compounds that can lower it. The best OTC product for lowering shbg would be I think arimistane. It's in lot's of test boosters. It works as a weak AI also, but really week (5 to 10 points max).

 

[BennyMagoo79]

What’s effective at lowering SHBG/upping DHT?

Rub DHEA on ur nuts.

 

[fueledpassion]

Sorry, but that wasn't Christianity. It's a lot of the same beliefs but like it or not Christianity wasn't around 5000 years ago, it was invented later. Just because early Christian founders stole ideas from previous religions does not mean they can claim that all of those other civilisations from aztecs to ancient Greeks to Egyptians were actually Christians without knowing it. That would be as disrespectful as Christians would think I'm being right now.

What was offensive again? The idea that a certain held belief system pre-dates the rest?

Whether believing the Bible or not, you do realize that the patriarchs in the Old Testament worshipped looking forward in anticipation of Christ and the Christians worshipped looking back at His work and teaching?

And that Genesis 6 gives explanation to where the Hindu, Egyptian, Sumerian & Greek “gods” came from - the inception of pagan worship? The Old Testament has hundreds of verses that speak of Christ’s first and second coming. It nailed His arrival to the exact year some 490 years prior in Daniel 9:24-27, for instance.

Not only this, but the very earliest Christian “converts” were in fact Israeli-Hebrews, which when traced back in their lineage, goes all the way back to...what for it...Adam.

This is common knowledge to those who study the Bible diligently and with an open mind.

But the Thracean comment you seem to have just ignored via cognitive dissonance.

It’s fine to not believe me. I didn’t expect everyone to. I should have cited some resources for that because it would have some large implications for Christian & Jewish haters. But what I said shouldn’t be an existential threat to anyone’s held beliefs. The age & semantics of the belief aside, the rest of my point (and the most important) still stands.

But so you know, back in 2006, a man by the name of Steven Guide and his colleague Tsevatan Guidarski decoded an ancient Thracian script that revealed this truth. Before he could make some noise about it shortly after he was poisoned but his work is still out there, you just have to look for it.

If this conversation still needs to continue, please do so in PM out of respect for the topic staying remotely on-point. You don’t have to make a point and “win” the argument with a second rebuttal - the vast majority of this board agrees with you and you aren’t likely to convince me differently as my position is an evolution of yours - as in I once held the same opinion that you do about it. What I claim here is novel information that has to be checked out and shouldn’t receive an extensive rebuttal until verified to be incorrect.

And lastly, I never said the other religions were copycats of ancient Hebrew worship - they are quite the opposite, a departure from it. What I said was that the worship of Yeshua, son of Yehuwah, pre-dates the rest by thousands of years.

Have a good evening though. I genuinely mean that.

 

[Wobmarvel]

What was offensive again? The idea that a certain held belief system pre-dates the rest?

Whether believing the Bible or not, you do realize that the patriarchs in the Old Testament worshipped looking forward in anticipation of Christ and the Christians worshipped looking back at His work and teaching?

And that Genesis 6 gives explanation to where the Hindu, Egyptian, Sumerian & Greek “gods” came from - the inception of pagan worship? The Old Testament has hundreds of verses that speak of Christ’s first and second coming. It nailed His arrival to the exact year some 490 years prior in Daniel 9:24-27, for instance.

Not only this, but the very earliest Christian “converts” were in fact Israeli-Hebrews, which when traced back in their lineage, goes all the way back to...what for it...Adam.

This is common knowledge to those who study the Bible diligently and with an open mind.

But the Thracean comment you seem to have just ignored via cognitive dissonance.

It’s fine to not believe me. I didn’t expect everyone to. I should have cited some resources for that because it would have some large implications for Christian & Jewish haters. But what I said shouldn’t be an existential threat to anyone’s held beliefs. The age & semantics of the belief aside, the rest of my point (and the most important) still stands.

But so you know, back in 2006, a man by the name of Steven Guide and his colleague Tsevatan Guidarski decoded an ancient Thracian script that revealed this truth. Before he could make some noise about it shortly after he was poisoned but his work is still out there, you just have to look for it.

If this conversation still needs to continue, please do so in PM out of respect for the topic staying remotely on-point. You don’t have to make a point and “win” the argument with a second rebuttal - the vast majority of this board agrees with you and you aren’t likely to convince me differently as my position is an evolution of yours - as in I once held the same opinion that you do about it. What I claim here is novel information that has to be checked out and shouldn’t receive an extensive rebuttal until verified to be incorrect.

And lastly, I never said the other religions were copycats of ancient Hebrew worship - they are quite the opposite, a departure from it. What I said was that the worship of Yeshua, son of Yehuwah, pre-dates the rest by thousands of years.

Have a good evening though. I genuinely mean that.

I just wrote you a huge message then turns out your message inbox is full lol.

The bullet points were.

1. I'm not trying to tell people what they should and shouldn't believe.

2. Your statement about Christianity influencing people for 5 millenia is simply incorrect.

3. I'm not a believer but realise religious faith can vastly improve people's quality of life and help overcome tragedy, despair and simply help others by feeling they are not alone in the world.

4. The old testament predicting anything to do with christ is still up for debate. (the statement "hundreds of references" was a bit extreme). It's all open to interpretation but for the record the word "jesus" is not mentioned once in the old testament.

If you clear your in box I'm happy to discuss further as I find all this very interesting and as you said it's clearly off topic.

All the best.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

What was offensive again? The idea that a certain held belief system pre-dates the rest?

Whether believing the Bible or not, you do realize that the patriarchs in the Old Testament worshipped looking forward in anticipation of Christ and the Christians worshipped looking back at His work and teaching?

And that Genesis 6 gives explanation to where the Hindu, Egyptian, Sumerian & Greek “gods” came from - the inception of pagan worship? The Old Testament has hundreds of verses that speak of Christ’s first and second coming. It nailed His arrival to the exact year some 490 years prior in Daniel 9:24-27, for instance.

Not only this, but the very earliest Christian “converts” were in fact Israeli-Hebrews, which when traced back in their lineage, goes all the way back to...what for it...Adam.

This is common knowledge to those who study the Bible diligently and with an open mind.

But the Thracean comment you seem to have just ignored via cognitive dissonance.

It’s fine to not believe me. I didn’t expect everyone to. I should have cited some resources for that because it would have some large implications for Christian & Jewish haters. But what I said shouldn’t be an existential threat to anyone’s held beliefs. The age & semantics of the belief aside, the rest of my point (and the most important) still stands.

But so you know, back in 2006, a man by the name of Steven Guide and his colleague Tsevatan Guidarski decoded an ancient Thracian script that revealed this truth. Before he could make some noise about it shortly after he was poisoned but his work is still out there, you just have to look for it.

If this conversation still needs to continue, please do so in PM out of respect for the topic staying remotely on-point. You don’t have to make a point and “win” the argument with a second rebuttal - the vast majority of this board agrees with you and you aren’t likely to convince me differently as my position is an evolution of yours - as in I once held the same opinion that you do about it. What I claim here is novel information that has to be checked out and shouldn’t receive an extensive rebuttal until verified to be incorrect.

And lastly, I never said the other religions were copycats of ancient Hebrew worship - they are quite the opposite, a departure from it. What I said was that the worship of Yeshua, son of Yehuwah, pre-dates the rest by thousands of years.

Have a good evening though. I genuinely mean that.

Nothing against Judaism or Christianity, I was raised Jewish, and still am I suppose, go to Church, have multiple annotated translations of the Bible, as well as books works by many great monks, priests, and theologians, and a ton of academic papers on Judaism and Christianity, with a particular interest in Biblical canon and the history of the Church, as well as have read and researched many religions and philosophies ranging from Hinduism and Buddhism to Taoism and Stoicism, and I can say with a great deal of certainty that Hinduism predates Judaism.

The events described in the Old Testament may predate the writing of the oldest Hindu scriptures, but the actual date of the founding/beginning of the religion itself, not the lineage or ancestry you can trace it back through, does not. In fact, what we would cal Judaism doesn’t really even begin until Abraham.

If you want to be technical, if you adhere to the Judeo-Christian literal belief that Adam and Eve were the first humans and every human came from them, then literally every person who has ever lived or ever will live, and every religion that has ever existed or will ever exist can also trace its lineage back to Adam. This is an irrefutable fact if you accept the premise of Adam and Eve as mentioned above.

 

[medinacirilo]

Rub DHEA on ur nuts.

I’ve done that a few times. Had me ready to f*ck or fight!!!

 

[Wobmarvel]

I’ve done that a few times. Had me ready to f*ck or fight!!!

Does it increase the effect if you get someone else to rub it on?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Right. And what do you think would happen to someone's conscience and character is they genuinely did not believe they would taste the sting of death nor fear it but rather were convinced they would continue to live on in a more ideal state of being, perceiving physical death as a necessary step to freeing the soul to something greater?

Like it or not, believe it or not, live it or not, if we did not fear death and did not concern ourselves with survival in the flesh, we could then overcome the fearful & incredibly selfish behaviors you just outlined above. We could rise above our 'instinctive effort to survive', putting the death the monsters of selfishness, mortality & fear itself. For those that actually get it right and contemplate deeply about what it all means, this is precisely what Christianity has been offering societies for over five millennia, not two. This belief pre-dates even the Samaritan societies by the Thracians, around 5000-5500 years ago.

What would life look like to you if you didn't fear death? You probably wouldn't be talking about how women like extra testosterone, for instance.

Yep, I just went there, lol.

Fun fact, Socrates/Plato said that each what we would call sin, or even an earthly desire, is like a nail that binds the soul to the body, and prevents the soul from communion with the divine after death.

Sounds sort of like the whole Jesus being nailed to a cross and taking the weight of man’s sin right? Right down to the nails. But before you tell me that Socrates stole it from Jesus, note that Socrates is believed to have been born in 470 BC, and Plato in 427 BC.

It’s also sort of misleading (see inaccurate) to say that Christianity existed for 5000+ years, as even Judaism, which inherently predates Christianity, may not date back that far if you count Abraham or Moses as the patriarch/founder of Judaism. Also, Jesus identified as a Jew; he didn’t really start a new religion, only to try to advance, continue, or “fix” Judaism. One can argue that it wasn’t Jesus but Paul who actually founded what we would come to know as “Christianity.” Christianity, as Jesus taught, was more of a continuation of Judaism than a new religion.

 

[Newth]

Nothing against Judaism or Christianity, I was raised Jewish, and still am I suppose, go to Church, have multiple annotated translations of the Bible, as well as books works by many great monks, priests, and theologians, and a ton of academic papers on Judaism and Christianity, with a particular interest in Biblical canon and the history of the Church, as well as have read and researched many religions and philosophies ranging from Hinduism and Buddhism to Taoism and Stoicism, and I can say with a great deal of certainty that Hinduism predates Judaism.

The events described in the Old Testament may predate the writing of the oldest Hindu scriptures, but the actual date of the founding/beginning of the religion itself, not the lineage or ancestry you can trace it back through, does not. In fact, what we would cal Judaism doesn’t really even begin until Abraham.

If you want to be technical, if you adhere to the Judeo-Christian literal belief that Adam and Eve were the first humans and every human came from them, then literally every person who has ever lived or ever will live, and every religion that has ever existed or will ever exist can also trace its lineage back to Adam. This is an irrefutable fact if you accept the premise of Adam and Eve as mentioned above.

What about Lylith?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

What about Lylith?

I’m fairly sure that the idea of Lilith as Adam’s first wife is a “newer” Jewish belief, as in it didn’t originate until after the canonical Old Testament was written, and after the events of the New Testament took place, so it’s not really inherently canonical for Jews or Christians.

During the Middle Ages, Jewish sources began to claim her as Adam’s first—and terrifying—wife.

The creation of humans is described in Genesis 1 and in Genesis 2...

In the post-Biblical period, some ancient Jewish scholars took the stance that Genesis 1:27 and Genesis 2:21–22 must describe two separate events, since it appears that woman is created differently in these accounts...

Professor Janet Howe Gaines explains this reasoning: “Considering every word of the Bible to be accurate and sacred, commentators needed a midrash or story to explain the disparity in the creation narratives of Genesis 1 and 2. God creates woman twice—once with man, once from man’s rib—so there must have been two women. The Bible names the second woman Eve; Lilith was identified as the first in order to complete the story.” Accordingly, Genesis 1:27 describes the creation of Adam and an unnamed woman (Lilith); Genesis 2:7 gives more details of Adam’s creation; and Genesis 2:21–22 describes the creation of Eve from Adam.

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/hebrew-bible/lilith-in-the-bible-and-mythology/

It sounds, and pardon my bluntness, like revisionist history arising out of a desired need to “make sense” of two seemingly conflicting accounts of creation presented in Genesis.

More academic/theological support:

Somewhat more is known about the life history of Lilith and her nefarious activities as they were imagined in the Talmudic period. Lilith, we learn, was Adam's first wife.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/537379.pdf?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Note that the Talmud was written post-Christ, so isn’t canonical to Christianity at all.

 

[stankyleg]

Yeah, but what about high levels of androgens, and chicks wanting to get with you

 

[YoungThor]

Women are attracted to masculinity while men are attracted to femininity. Obviously there are outliers to this rule. Androgens help you exhibit more masculine traits with your physical build and your personality. Case closed.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Yeah, but what about high levels of androgens, and chicks wanting to get with you

It’s likely secondary. If you have high testosterone but are out of shape, not confident, etc. it’s likely not going to help much. But if you’re on cycle, and getting bigger and leaner, and perhaps acting more confidently, then of course you’ll be more attractive.

For example, if you’re an out of shape slob and inject some testosterone you won’t suddenly be much more attractive to women overnight, but if you’re in good shape and jump on a cycle, as you gain muscle and maybe get leaner and feel more confident and/or alpha, you’ll likely be more attractive to women. Make sense?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Women are attracted to masculinity while men are attracted to femininity. Obviously there are outliers to this rule. Androgens help you exhibit more masculine traits with your physical build and your personality. Case closed.

This. It’s not like a pig smelling truffles; androgens help someone come off as masculine, they’re not the goal themselves.

 

[HellAtlantic]

It’s likely secondary. If you have high testosterone but are out of shape, not confident, etc. it’s likely not going to help much. But if you’re on cycle, and getting bigger and leaner, and perhaps acting more confidently, then of course you’ll be more attractive.

For example, if you’re an out of shape slob and inject some testosterone you won’t suddenly be much more attractive to women overnight, but if you’re in good shape and jump on a cycle, as you gain muscle and maybe get leaner and feel more confident and/or alpha, you’ll likely be more attractive to women. Make sense?

Yup, thread can be closed now cuz this is the answer.