Feedback from a customer using Epistane to help reduce their gyno.

LakeMountD

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I got an email today from a customer I had spoken with via phone a few months ago who said he would contact me again after he attempted to use Epistane with some other things to help reduce his gyno and stay in shape. I just wanted to post this for anyone who is using Epistane for the same purposes and wanted to try something new.


"Hey, it's ------ again. I wanted to send you a follow-up email to let you know how my solo-epistane run turned out for me.
Several months ago I ran a cycle of Trenadrol and during the last week I began showing symptoms of acute gynecomastia. Since it was my last week of the cycle, I went ahead and ended it several days early to be on the safe side and began a standard PCT protocol. During the first week of PCT, a small lump quickly appeared- although not visible it was both painful and palpable. I continued treatment of the small lump with tamoxifen/P5P until it was as far diminished as possible and tapered the tamoxifen down to be safe. It was at this point I decided to take my chances and see if Epistane could possibly reduce the acute symptoms of gyno I’d been experiencing. I started the first two weeks with 20mg daily, and on the final two weeks, I moved up to 30mg daily. I kept P5P stable at 300mg daily. I’ve only recently finished the cycle and began using raloxifen as a means of PCT and caution, however, between the time I tapered off of the Tamoxifen and finished the cycle of epistane, I can honestly tell you all remaining symptoms have been further diminished. Overall, I’m pretty impressed with how well Epistane reduced the remaining 25% of a minor, acute gynecomastia case. I’m a satisfied customer. Thank you,
------"
 
strategicmove

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Awesome! :thumbsup:
 

futurepilot

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I think its a bad idea to advertise steroids as a gyno remedy.
 
neoborn

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I think its a bad idea to advertise steroids as a gyno remedy.
I think it's a bad idea to not let people know what works for others in teh glimmer of a hope that it may help another poor soul who may be suffering.....but that's just me.
 
Australian made

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I know a few people who have gotten gyno from Epistane...........well actualyl it developed after the cycle so perhaps the PCT is to blame for that....and probably is.

I loved Epi but things went downhill when i threw hdrol into the mix. Im going to run Epi again, 20mg/day, and not go any higher. Im really only using it because i felt my already existing gyno go down slightly when i used it by itself before, so im staying low dose in the hope that it will work again. 20mg/day should yeild some mild gains as well.

One thing i will say is not to use PCS for PCT on Epi. I know thats what its designed for but from what i've seen it isn't good enough at controlling estrogen, JMHO a SERM is neccessary.
 
poopypants

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I know a few people who have gotten gyno from Epistane...........well actualyl it developed after the cycle so perhaps the PCT is to blame for that....and probably is.

I loved Epi but things went downhill when i threw hdrol into the mix. Im going to run Epi again, 20mg/day, and not go any higher. Im really only using it because i felt my already existing gyno go down slightly when i used it by itself before, so im staying low dose in the hope that it will work again. 20mg/day should yeild some mild gains as well.

One thing i will say is not to use PCS for PCT on Epi. I know thats what its designed for but from what i've seen it isn't good enough at controlling estrogen, JMHO a SERM is neccessary.
I dont even think its designed for that... its called Post Cycle SUPPORT.... not entire all in one super mundo PCT product.

I agree SERMS are necessary for any and ALL pct's as the base, anything else is gravy.
 
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It is the reason the Sinner designed it. The AI guys have said that on more then one occassion.
 
poopypants

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It is the reason the Sinner designed it. The AI guys have said that on more then one occassion.
what??? sinner works for AX... are you sure he designed it? and what exactly are you saying, it was designed specifically for Epi?

Either way it should matter WHAT AI says or what any designer says its for, IBE the maker of Epistane has not come out and stated its an all in one sufficient pct product for a normal cycle of Epistane.

This isnt SDNG here or 3-AD and you can just take aPCT(which IMO, is a WAY better choice then PCS).... certain compounds you can get away with that kind of product but ones that are highly aromatizable(say phera) or that have an effect on estrogen (like Epi)in any way where rebound can occur should be treated with a SERM.

That is and always should be the standard... anything else and your taking your own risks.
 
strategicmove

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Iron Lungz

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Yeah, sinner did design Post Cycle Support.
I have a hard time believing that EPI has caused anyone gyno. I say this because there is NO WAY in telling if the said person actually used a proper post cycle and/or is genetically predisposed to getting gyno.
In reality, a simple bottle of DHEA could cause a flare up in people who have an already high level of estrogen. Pat (everyone’s favorite chemist, ;) ) stated at one point that he had a flare up on DHEA.
Any gene modulator has the ability to kick certain people in the arse.
 
poopypants

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thing is DHEA can aromatize to EST at a very high rate (believed to do so through many of its multiple steps of conversion to test, maybe even directly) and Epistane cannot Convert at any normal dose..... if any.

The only est related effect directly from Epi would be a lowering of est effecting the body (but not actual circulating est) and indirectly by no longer blocking it and not taking proper precautions (adequate PCT) to prevent a rebound.
 
poopypants

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nothing. not purposely or directly, it may have active metabolites but undergoes no enzyme conversions like a PH.

Epistane is an active Designer Steroid not a Pro hormone. It requires zero conversion to do its job.
 

futurepilot

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What active steroid is it related too? And you say it may have active metabolites, what might those be?
 
Grunt76

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Truly unsurprising. At 750mg testosterone, my bloated person gets really dry with 30mg epistane ED.
 
poopypants

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What active steroid is it related too? And you say it may have active metabolites, what might those be?
Whats so hard to understand here pilot????

ITS ACTIVE ON ITS OWN, its unrelated to anything else out there.

Im not sure if it even does have any active metabolites but given its unrelated to most everything else (cept the SERM it was derived from) its not likely to have any similar metabolites to any other compounds out there either.

This is a NEW (was) compound and not some knock off alteration to an existing steroid, not a precursor or prohormone that has to undergo conversion, its what is called a Designer Steroid and is completely active in its own right with its own properties.
 

futurepilot

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ITS ACTIVE ON ITS OWN, its unrelated to anything else out there.

Im not sure if it even does have any active metabolites but given its unrelated to most everything else (cept the SERM it was derived from) its not likely to have any similar metabolites to any other compounds out there either.
So its unrelated to anything else out there, but its related to a SERM that it was derived from?

And about the metabolites, you dont have any concrete information about them?

whats so hard to understand here is how your willing to tought a steroid as a gyno remedy, when you really have no idea how it reacts in the body.

Jesus this guy has 4 x more reps than I do. Just goes to show.
It goes to show that you accept all that is told to you without question.
 
poopypants

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So its unrelated to anything else out there, but its related to a SERM that it was derived from?

And about the metabolites, you dont have any concrete information about them?

whats so hard to understand here is how your willing to tought a steroid as a gyno remedy, when you really have no idea how it reacts in the body.



It goes to show that you accept all that is told to you without question.
sorry no one said it was an end all remedy pilot BUT it has helped many decrease the size of their gyno and when followed up with an proper PCT and gyno destruction protocol.

Bottom line is the compound it was derived from has proven anti-estrogenic effects as well as steroidal effects(from the late 1970's) and can be considered an unmethylated parent to epi but is now scheduled.

There is no doubt this compound now shares the same anti estrogenic properties and in turn can effect some peoples gyno in a positive nature.
 

futurepilot

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There is no doubt this compound now shares the same anti estrogenic properties and in turn can effect some peoples gyno in a positive nature.
Any studies to prove this, or is it just conjecture at this point?
 
poopypants

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Any studies to prove this, or is it just conjecture at this point?
look up thioderon and do the searching yourself.... it was found and tested out when developed in japan in 1979 and found to have these properties but wasnt really sold on a large scale like most anabolics and took a back seat in the vida books. Its effects are still well documented and should be able to find a bit of info BUT not a ton unless you want to buy bill llewelyns new book.
 
Grunt76

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look up thioderon and do the searching yourself.... it was found and tested out when developed in japan in 1979 and found to have these properties but wasnt really sold on a large scale like most anabolics and took a back seat in the vida books. Its effects are still well documented and should be able to find a bit of info BUT not a ton unless you want to buy bill llewelyns new book.
I have personally verified this to be true. Before anyone with the handle "futurepilot" joined this board.
 
poopypants

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thanks for all your help:ntome:
come on though, Ive answered your many questions its a proven compound and the Anti-E effects are quite apparent and documented as well and you want me to spoon feed you studies I have no access to or you wont be pleased....

Ive given you a considerable amount of info on Epistane and its parent compound Thioderon (Mepitiostane) and if you REALLY have to have that study or further info you can use your god given abilities to do so and search.

I am a helpful individual but cant and wont help those who arent willing to help themselves.

good luck in your search pilot.
 
poopypants

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heres this from steroid Guru, Dr. Seth Elliot

http://www.anabolicextreme.com/anabolic/archives/anex_archive_issue23_makingorallyactive.htm
What the…? I realize that most of you have never heard of Epitiostanol as it is a relatively obscure steroid used for breast cancer that is only available in Japan. Again you might say, “How does a drug used for breast cancer work for us extreme fitness types?” Well, Epitiostanol was actually developed back in the 1960’s and has an extremely good anabolic/androgenic ratio. This means that it causes a whole host of positive effects in the body with minimal negative androgenic effects. The reason it was used for breast cancer is that it was shown to exert a potent anti-estrogenic effect which halted the progression of estrogen-stimulated cancers. What wonderful characteristics to have in a steroid! Great muscle growth with small androgenic phenomenon with no estrogenic problems like gyno…sounds like the perfect steroid!
 
poopypants

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Now remember Epistane is merely a methylated version of Mepitiostane in order to increase its oral bioavailability also allowing it to be sold as a designer "supplement".

I hope this has been adequate enough to fit your fancy pilot... Im done doing this now, any further proof on this subject will have to be provided on your own or by someone else as I think the facts are quite clear as to what this compound IS and why we market it as we do.

Thanks for your interest.
 
poopypants

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OK one more... I cant resist this one... a straight out study using a STEROID to decrease the size of a tumor of the mammary gland... which is what Tamox and other anti E's used by body builders for gyno reduction are intended for as well, thus one can conclude the same could be said of these STEROIDS in their use for reduction in gyno, a very similar growth to mammary gland cancer if you will.....

wonder what STEROID it just so happened to be?

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~nmramesh/cancer_demo/topic_16_scale_2_chunk_0_docs.html
13. DOCID:3890 SCORE: 0.00330634829304048
DOCNO: 922732
OWNER: NLM
STATUS: MEDLINE
DESCRIPTOR: Antineoplastic Agents
DESCRIPTOR: Pregnancy, Animal
QUALIFIER: therapeutic use
QUALIFIER: therapeutic use
QUALIFIER: drug therapy
AUTHOR: A Matsuzawa A
AUTHOR: T Yamamoto T
PUBTYPE: Journal Article
JOURNALTITLE: Cancer research.
COUNTRY: UNITED STATES
TITLE: Antitumor effect of two oral steroids, mepitiostane and fluoxymesterone, on a pregnancy-dependent mouse mammary tumor (TPDMT-4).
PUBDATE: 19771201
Pregnancy-dependent TPDMT-4 mammary tumors, characterized by requiring estrogen, progesterone, and pituitary hormones for growth, grew continuously in female DDD mice carrying pituitary isografts. The experimental model was used to investigate the antitumor effects of two p.o. steroids, mepitiostane and fluoxymesterone. When tumors implanted with pituitary isografts into the fat-pad reached palpable size, animals received 6 doses/week of 0.1, 0.3, 1.0, and 3.0 mg of either steroid intragastrically. Mepitiostane significantly suppressed tumor growth with regression in 25 and 29 percent of animals at 1.0 and 3.0 mg, respectively, but had no inhibitory effects at other doses. Fluoxymesterone retarted tumor growth during the first week of treatment at 3.0 mg but finally had no inhibitory effects at any doses. Under similar conditions ovariectomy caused tumor regression immediately, and epitiostanol, the parent steroid of mepitiostane, significantly suppressed tumor growth when given in 3 injections/week of 0.5 mg s.c. Tumous had papillary structures and almost lacked secretory activity.
 
Machine Mind

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Why don't you guys just ask dsade whether this compound will get rid of gyno since he brought it to the market?

I'll tell you one thing, it does not.
 
Grunt76

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Why don't you guys just ask dsade whether this compound will get rid of gyno since he brought it to the market?

I'll tell you one thing, it does not.
There MAY be SOME cases where it does not appear to be working. Just as the studies never stated that ALL estrogen-dependent tumors' growth was halted by the addition of mepitiostanol.

Some people have used letrozole and raloxifene and it didn't work either. Does that mean those compounds have no effect on breast tissue in males?

Since when is a n=1 study worth the paper it's printed on??? :donut:
 
poopypants

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Why don't you guys just ask dsade whether this compound will get rid of gyno since he brought it to the market?

I'll tell you one thing, it does not.
LOL not this debate.... greeeeeaaaaattt....

Well you go ahead and release a product a week or so following another without first researching the compound, sourcing it, shipping it and capping it, making up a design label and bottling agreement for the product and tell me you got the idea from that product released a week ago.

Not gonna happen brother. It just so happens that they both intended on bringing this compound to market at the same time AND if Dsade chooses not to exploit its inherent anti estrogen capabilities then so be it, we did and it doesnt change the facts ONE BIT.

This is no way talking bad about Dsade OR RPN as I have great respect for both, just stating the facts which you sir obviously have mixed up and/or are far too ignorant to read my previous posts on the subject.

I personally would look at the facts and studies on a compound and not how its marketed to decide what it can and cant do.
 
Machine Mind

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I'm not trying to start anything regarding the RPN comment.

I'm just saying Epistane/Havoc/clones are NOT mepitiostanol and to regard & advertise them as such is irresponsible.
 
poopypants

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I'm not trying to start anything regarding the RPN comment.

I'm just saying Epistane/Havoc/clones are NOT mepitiostanol and to regard & advertise them as such is irresponsible.
You realize that mepitiostane is a methoxy ether attached to plain old epitiostanol, where as Epistane is a 17aa methylated version of the same epitiostanol. Two different ways of increasing the absorption of the parent compound, both carry the inherent properties of that parent compound as well.

So to ignore the fact that it carries these properties would be foolish and to use those studies to prove such is anything but irresponsible.

As stated by Grunt, they even state in the studies that its not perfect, does not work EVERY TIME in stopping or reversing growth, is dose dependent and we have seen real world results of this doing EXACTLY what its stated it can do. I myself personally saw these results in an unsponsored log WITH pictures for everyone to see BEFORE I was ever even considered for a rep position for IBE. This gentlemen that PM'd lake obviously had a similar experience along with many many others seeing these type of results.

SO to sell it as an end all cure WOULD be foolish BUT thats not what we have done or are doing, we are merely stating this is a property of this compound and one MAY see the same results if desired with a proper dosing protocol.

So tell me how is this anymore irresponsible to tout as an anti estrogen then it is for any of say the 6-OXO, ATD or 6-Bromo sellers to use a STEROIDAL AI as a PCT supplement when if dosed high enough (very touchy at that from rec dose to over dose) can actually become suppresive itself and also cause a nasty rebound in Estrogen upon cessation if one uses aggressive dosing thinking that more is better?

It isnt.
 
DAdams91982

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You realize that mepitiostane is a methoxy ether attached to plain old epitiostanol, where as Epistane is a 17aa methylated version of the same epitiostanol. Two different ways of increasing the absorption of the parent compound, both carry the inherent properties of that parent compound as well.

So to ignore the fact that it carries these properties would be foolish and to use those studies to prove such is anything but irresponsible.

As stated by Grunt, they even state in the studies that its not perfect, does not work EVERY TIME in stopping or reversing growth, is dose dependent and we have seen real world results of this doing EXACTLY what its stated it can do. I myself personally saw these results in an unsponsored log WITH pictures for everyone to see BEFORE I was ever even considered for a rep position for IBE. This gentlemen that PM'd lake obviously had a similar experience along with many many others seeing these type of results.

SO to sell it as an end all cure WOULD be foolish BUT thats not what we have done or are doing, we are merely stating this is a property of this compound and one MAY see the same results if desired with a proper dosing protocol.

So tell me how is this anymore irresponsible to tout as an anti estrogen then it is for any of say the 6-OXO, ATD or 6-Bromo sellers to use a STEROIDAL AI as a PCT supplement when if dosed high enough (very touchy at that from rec dose to over dose) can actually become suppresive itself and also cause a nasty rebound in Estrogen upon cessation if one uses aggressive dosing thinking that more is better?

It isnt.
**SINGING**

You took the words right out of my mouth,
Oh it must have been when you were kissing....
... ummm....
...Lake? :D

Adams
 

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