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Epistane toxicity

I don't like the idea of putting them in the fridge/freezer because of this.It just doesn't seem normal/natural for the substance.I keep mine in my closet in an old cologne box.I don't think it's necasary to vacuum seal them either when they're already sealed twice,and some are closed tight.(not the ones that push down and turn)
 
Well if you plan on using your bottle in 2 years (or before expiration date) then what is the point of freezing it? If I remember right pills can remain potent up to 4-5 years (if stored correctly) according to bassgod's pharmacist he works for...
 
Epi will degrade in heat, You want to keep it out of your car and out of the light for extended periods of time.

If you have to take it with you to does through the day then just take the required amount and dont tote the whole bottle around, leave it behind.

Refridgerating it is fine Ive been told maybe stay away from freezing it for the reasons listed above but a fridge is not too cold. Otherwise a cool dark medicine cabinet, closet or storage container is preferred.

Vacuum sealing the individual pills (not the entire bottle) can extend shelf life further then just leaving it in the bottle. Even with oder eater/oxygen absorbers/moisture absorbing packs that are placed into the bottle they can still only hold up to how much the can possibly be saturated then the rest is left to degrade your compound. Vacuum sealing eliminates any and all air and moisture minus that which is left in the capsule(sometimes they compress as well).
 
I heard that freezing Epithio products actually brings an end to global warming and ushers in a new era of peace.......but that's just what I heard.

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maynehood171 said:
Well if you plan on using your bottle in 2 years (or before expiration date) then what is the point of freezing it? If I remember right pills can remain potent up to 4-5 years (if stored correctly) according to bassgod's pharmacist he works for...
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I was aking about methoxy tst which expires in 09.I also asked about others a while back just to see if I would be convinced to freeze them.It didn't happen though.
 
T-Bone said:
That is just not true, I proved it myself while I was in the hospital!. Also I am not the only one that ended up in the hospital after using Superdrol....Just search.
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I hear ya on that. Superdrol is the worst chemical ever picked out of the Chinese Chemical Supplier's handbook IMO.
 
neoborn said:
Why do so many people use it then?
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Neoborn, I'm sure if dog pooh had anabolic properties, people would be cleaning the parks with gloves and ziplock bags. lol.

I for one can say that I had the attitude of being psyched up on the claims and the user testamonials as far as gains are concerned. Some people want gains at any and all costs.

My friend for example, is taking phentermine and said he could make it through the day on like 500 calories. I told him the danger of doing that longterm, but he didn't care whatsoever, as long as he was dropping weight.

The attitude of supplementing in the 'now' and worrying about sides as they appear is not uncommon.
 
T-Bone said:
Because they simply don't give a s h i t. Either that or they have no idea how toxic it is, or think they are "invincable".
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eh, 3 weeks of superdrol, for most people at least, is not going to do any permanent damage. the hypertension and hyperlipidemia are transient, and the liver recovers, usually, very quickly. hell, they prescribe anadrol to prepubescent girls and give anavar to 12 year old boys. as long as one keeps an eye out for risk factors, they can still live a long life after abusing steroids.

my 2cc only.
 
SOLARUS said:
eh, 3 weeks of superdrol, for most people at least, is not going to do any permanent damage. the hypertension and hyperlipidemia are transient, and the liver recovers, usually, very quickly. hell, they prescribe anadrol to prepubescent girls and give anavar to 12 year old boys. as long as one keeps an eye out for risk factors, they can still live a long life after abusing steroids.

my 2cc only.
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For most, the liver and body won't sustain lasting damage if used properly and not overused. Many people have liver issues, however, and they would be at risk (sometimes just genetically acquired, sometimes from environmental factors (i.e. excessive alcohol/drug use). Also, some (of us) are guilty of using these for many years, and for not being excessively cautious regarding suggested "time off". I try to be smarter now, and I am. SD is more toxic than some, probably less than others. M1T still seems to be the worst IMO, but if you're comparing SD to Var, the SD is a lot more toxic.
 
Everyone has a different body....everyone has a different diet, lifestyle, opinion, liver, everyones body works in different ways to different things. I personally do not believe anyone should take something and expect it to not be harmful on their liver just because 10 people on a small online forum (small in terms of the number of people in the world) said that it's not toxic. Even if a guy ran superdrol for 12 weeks at 40mg a day and had perfect liver results....this doesnt mean its going to happen to you....and the opposite is true as well...just because someone ran a regular superdrol cycle and their values were smashed, doesnt mean its going to happen to you. These are things you have to know going into taking prohormones. Your liver is at risk. The End. Theres no way around it. There ways to help prevent the risks with cycle support and such, and those should ALWAYS be taken, but still, you have to know everytime you swallow a SD pill its giving your liver a nice punch.

my 2cc
 
nattydisaster said:
Your liver is at risk. The End. Theres no way around it. There ways to help prevent the risks with cycle support and such, and those should ALWAYS be taken, but still, you have to know everytime you swallow a SD pill its giving your liver a nice punch.
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cycle support, or any other silly supplement, is not going to keep your liver healthy or otherwise unaffected by a 17aa cycle...i dont think there's a single shred of evidence that silymarin and antioxidants prevent or even abate steroid-induced liver stress.
 
probably right...So did Neo or SIDUDE ever get that bloodwork? Crazy thread...but a decent arguement...I just wanted to chime in...that i sort of compare epistane to anavar...anavar is 17aa just like all other oral steroids...but is said to be way less toxic on every profile you'll ever read...
 
SOLARUS said:
cycle support, or any other silly supplement, is not going to keep your liver healthy or otherwise unaffected by a 17aa cycle...i dont think there's a single shred of evidence that silymarin and antioxidants prevent or even abate steroid-induced liver stress.
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I read that their has been evidence showing that silymarin has liver cleansing affects.But not enough proof to say for certain.......
 
Warning

Guys, after 3 weeks of epistane my lab rat got these results back on bloodwork. They were taken 3 days after he ceased it due to general malaise and darker urine than normal, also some right-upper-quadrant discomfort. 10mg for 4 days then 20 for 4 then 30 for the rest.

Blood work (Liver and kidneys) all normal range except for:

AST (Normal <35 U/L) - 84
ALT (Normal <40 U/L) - 280!

Blood work from same rat approx 8 months ago:

AST - 27
ALT - 39


Be forewarned, it is obviously not as safe as people think. Now he has a question, is using tamoxifen out of the question due to the high liver values?
If yes then is ALRI Restore ok, it does have absorption compounds (Grapefruit extract and piperine).
 
theguvner said:
Guys, after 3 weeks of epistane my lab rat got these results back on bloodwork. They were taken 3 days after he ceased it due to general malaise and darker urine than normal, also some right-upper-quadrant discomfort. 10mg for 4 days then 20 for 4 then 30 for the rest.

Blood work (Liver and kidneys) all normal range except for:

AST (Normal <35 U/L) - 84
ALT (Normal <40 U/L) - 280!

Blood work from same rat approx 8 months ago:

AST - 27
ALT - 39


Be forewarned, it is obviously not as safe as people think. Now he has a question, is using tamoxifen out of the question due to the high liver values?
If yes then is ALRI Restore ok, it does have absorption compounds (Grapefruit extract and piperine).
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Be careful dude.
Read below.

Yes, you are right. It affects everyone differently. Somes enzymes go up, some dont.

Thats quite a jump to the high range.

My AST (which is not as liver specific as the ALT) went up to 56 during this past months cycle with epi. (though I pushed my cycle to 7.5 weeks)

Interesting thing is--- Im on PCT now----Nolva (tamoxifen) then reversitol as the novla was down to 20mg and my ALT went up to 56 from 35 and AST remained a bit high as well as bilirubin. NOT a huge number to worry about but thought Id mention it since your ALT is high now.

Stopped the nolva altogether ( 22 days into it) and just doing the Reversitol only and will repeat labs next week along with testosterone.

Next PCT will be Torem as I read it is somewhat less liver toxic but nothing isnt going to affect the liver. It has to process all of this.

I hope it all works out for you man.


be well.



boo
 
Yes you missed it

jpk said:
quoting Bill Llewellyn...

"Some are mistakenly assuming that Havoc is both less toxic to your liver, and less damaging to your cholesterol, than other oral steroids, and there is nothing to suggest this is true, especially since no investigations into the heath risks of methepitiostane have ever been conducted. We do know that liver toxicity is directly tied to the steroid’s potency and resistance to liver breakdown. Given that methepitiostane is both potent and c-17alpha alkylated, a sufficient level of liver toxicity is assumed."

So he clearly states that Epistane and clones are just as toxic as any other methylated steroid, say SuperDrol for example. Or to restate:

Epistane is every bit as liver toxic as SuperDrol.

Am I missing something in this logic? Because numerous users (including myself) have had solid, side-free cycles with this compound. The few examples of blood work that have been posted here seem to show that toxicity is minimal.

Perhaps Epistane is less resistant to liver breakdown and this is the key to lower toxicity. What we need then is a measure of resistance to liver metabolism. Perhaps SD is more resistant and thus more toxic.
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He says the directly related to POTENCY and methylation the potency of havoc is not to the degree of superdrol but they are both methylated.
 
Just because an AAS is alpha alkylated does not mean it has the same liver stress as another alpha alkylated AAS. So yes it is possable that Epi is methylated and still NOT be as hard on the liver as Pheraplex.
 
samva777 said:
Just because an AAS is alpha alkylated does not mean it has the same liver stress as another alpha alkylated AAS. So yes it is possable that Epi is methylated and still NOT be as hard on the liver as Pheraplex.
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What you posted is what bill was saying. I can't see why anyone would have ever stated that it wasn't toxic. Originally, that was never the question. It was a question of how much more or less was the toxicity of epi compared to SD,PP, ergo, ect..
.
Bill can say there has not been any test but I can say for certain that several people have used PP,SD, ergo and Epi/havoc. The blood work before, during, and after has said that Epi was less toxic than all 3 not including havoc.

Of course, this is specific to those 9 individuals that I have witnessed.

It's as simple as this: 9 has run all of them and blood work has stated that epi was less toxic, period. Regardless of whether 10000 people would have had the same results, we can say with positivity about those 9
but I'm sure the ratio would continue to lean in favor of Epi had I viewed 10000 blood results.
 
Sorry to pull this thread up.....
Are you saying that drinking Alcohol and taking methyls isnt as bad as people make out?

ReaperX said:
neo-


I'm not actually using scare tactics. I'm just referring to the science behind it. The only other documented medical case other than Superdrol that I can think of off the top of my head is Lipokinetix by Syntrax. Which ironically enough was also blamed for liver failure.

Let's be real here, how many members here actually get pre/post bloodwork after their cycles ? Maybe 10% ? That's probably at best rounding upwards. Most people just take their stuff, and supporting supplements and pray for the best.

Also too a very moot argument is methyls and alcohol.

Methylated compounds are metabolized via cytochrome P450 (CYP) 3A4-catalyzed reactions, and to a lesser extent hydroxylated compounds.

Alcohol is metabolized primarily by the CYP2E1 enzyme and NOT 3A4.

Ok, so now that we've established that, it is like comparing apples to oranges. Or draino for that matter. I'm not exactly sure where that has any relevance.


As far as Epistane, what standard is being held to say that it is a 'mild' substance ? Is it multiple bloodworks being done that is enough to draw a substantial statistical conclusion ? There needs to be some standard that it is being compared to. Or is this just another 'brotellegence' comment ?


Hm, your right, that is subjective.


I don't mind what people do, I enjoy hearing the horror stories.

I do believe, however, that it is very irresponsible and wreckless to only tell 'half the truth'.
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