Epistane (Havoc) cycle log, plus a sprinkling of other stuff.

Wobmarvel

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So here I am again guys, finally decided to Start my next cycle so figured I would start a new log also.

Cycle will consist of:-

Havoc 30/30/30/30/30/30

I have enough to jump to 40 if I feel like it.

Trenadrol 60/60/60/60/60/60

(fusion) converts to dienolone I believe not actual tren, and at a piss poor rate of convertion when in oral form but wanted a non methyl in there since I've done halo and epi solo in the past.

Trest 45/45/45/45

(brawn) low dose and possibly underdosed. Hoping to get some test base type benefits from this. May run 15mg 3 times per day but do 15 am them 30 pre workout on workout days. Play it by ear.

Taking cycle support, fish oil etc. Blah de blah blah. 19 nor plus trest could spark prolactin issues so will have something on hand for that. Hoping that epistanes anti estrogen properties plus relatively low doses of the other two will reduce the chances of flare up. Always have an a.i. On hand too plus clomid for use in pct.

Don't know if I'll post workouts as such but will log anything of interest regarding strength gains (relative to me) plus answer any questions anyone may have. It's more about logging body compositional changes plus side effects etc. That may be of interest to anyone looking to try these compounds.

Goal wise I'm hoping for some strength gains (still working up the weights on deadlifts and squats since the hernia surgery back in July) and possibly a lean bulk with some slight weight gain. Hopefully harden up and possibly lean out slightly. So yeah I'm doing a cutting, bulk, leaning out recomp with weight gain cycle. It's always good to have clear goals guys.

Anyway will update soon. Feel free to comment on anything you would like me to add.

Cheers.
 
Wobmarvel

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So for anyone who didn't see my last log I'm 43, 6 foot tall currently weigh 185lbs, relatively lean but haven't measured scientifically. I recon between 12 and 15% bodyfat. If I tense, stand in the right light, turn at the right angle, then shut my eyes and picture Frank Zane I can see my abs.

Cycles I've ran in over the years, CEL h-drol, chaparral labs megavol, Brawn Epi, ostarine, lgd 4033, ostarine plus S4, superdrol plus lgd with dermacrine. I think that's it. I've been 168 lbs and sub 10% bodyfat (last year, wanted to see my abs midlife crisis) and I've been 215 lbs with a 4 pack (megavol cycle, crazy stuff, work out Monday and see results in the mirror on Thursday)

Anyway ill update again soon with a diet breakdown.
 
Renew1

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So for anyone who didn't see my last log I'm 43, 6 foot tall currently weigh 185lbs, relatively lean but haven't measured scientifically. I recon between 12 and 15% bodyfat. If I tense, stand in the right light, turn at the right angle, then shut my eyes and picture Frank Zane I can see my abs.

Cycles I've ran in over the years, CEL h-drol, chaparral labs megavol, Brawn Epi, ostarine, lgd 4033, ostarine plus S4, superdrol plus lgd with dermacrine. I think that's it. I've been 168 lbs and sub 10% bodyfat (last year, wanted to see my abs midlife crisis) and I've been 215 lbs with a 4 pack (megavol cycle, crazy stuff, work out Monday and see results in the mirror on Thursday)

Anyway ill update again soon with a diet breakdown.
Wait... Megavol was Superdrol, right?
 
Wobmarvel

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Not sure if it's straight up superdrol or an altered clone but definitely based on sd.
 
AnabolicGuru

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Get an aromatize inhibitor and prami/caber to keep on hand. Epistane will do little to nothing for estrogen; in fact, it would potentially make gyno worse. Cycle looks good though, subbed.
 
mikeymike85

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That should be a lean and mean cycle... I'm interested to see what physique changes you experience. Should be drastic IMO
 
Wobmarvel

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Get an aromatize inhibitor and prami/caber to keep on hand. Epistane will do little to nothing for estrogen; in fact, it would potentially make gyno worse. Cycle looks good though, subbed.
Yeah I've heard contradicting stories about epistanes estrogen controlling properties and figure it could just be some kind of weird Chinese whispers type miss information. Can get people in trouble, I've seen logs where people are running stuff like superdrol, developing gyno symptoms and throwing epi into the mix to control it because of said information. Crazy.
 
AnabolicGuru

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Yeah I've heard contradicting stories about epistanes estrogen controlling properties and figure it could just be some kind of weird Chinese whispers type miss information. Can get people in trouble, I've seen logs where people are running stuff like superdrol, developing gyno symptoms and throwing epi into the mix to control it because of said information. Crazy.
It’s because epistane is a modified version of an antiestrogen/breast cancer drug known as epitiostanol. It’s basically just a methylated version, but as we all know, a simple change to a compound can drastically change it’s effects. Both times I’ve taken epistane solo I’ve gotten itchy, sore, puffy nips.
 
Wobmarvel

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So a bit more about me just for some perspective (and so that some Internet hacker can reverse engineer all the info and steal my life).

I'm married with two young kids, work full time in retail. I don't use a gym otherwise my family would never see me.

I work out at home three or four times a week. Currently doing variations of push, pull, legs. I was doing three full body workouts per week but after ten sets of deadlifts and squats, even at a relatively light weight, there wasn't much left in the tank for anything else.

I don't train for strength, I utilise what I have and incorporate supersets, giant sets, pre-exhaustion etc. To form progression rather than weight increase although that does still play a part where I am able. I have a chin up and dip station with weight belt, a bench, dumbells, straight bar and Ez curl bar and about 100kg of weights so although deadlifts and squats are limited there is more than enough there to tax shoulders, bi's, tris and with legs I'm doing 4 or 5 sets of 20reps.

Will update soon with diet plan (I'm sure I've said that already)
 
Wobmarvel

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Check out the "gym" guys, jealous much? I bet you can't play a few quick bursts of hungry hippo between sets at your gym.
sketch-1543435298995.jpeg
 
Wobmarvel

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So 24 hours in and no gains to speak of.... Just kidding. Cracks me up when you read stuff like that in logs though.

Only side so far is blood pressure mild headaches. I'm chalking that down to not preloading my cycle support and expect this to calm down in the next week or so. The body always tries to fight new stuff, especially when there are a few introduced all at once.
 
RickyBlobby

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I loved EPI/ trest. GL man
 
Wobmarvel

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So diet wise I'll describe basics but I haven't started counting macros and calories yet.

Basically I eat more or less the same exact things everyday which makes it dead easy to tweak. I then adjust based on how I look in the mirror combined with weight.

Meals consist of shakes containing up to two scoops whey plus oats, banana, peanut butter, almond milk, cinnamon and creatine.

Lunch is usually 3 pieces of skin on chicken either legs or thighs or both, an apple then sometimes a flapjack or rice/noodles depending on carb requirements.

Dinner is a four whole egg omelette with ham, mushrooms, tomato, cheese and two slices of toast.

Postworkout is Greek yogurt with whey protein mixed with peanut butter, raisins and cinnamon.

I will also snack on extra fruit through the day, drink a crap tonne of water and sip on amino supplements throughout the day, not because of any scientific reason just like the taste (prosupps being my current favourite).

Sticking to this diet its very easy to up calories, raise or lower protein fats, and carbs by manipulation the whey, oats and peanut butter and keeping pretty much everything else consistent. Calories on this diet can reach 3500 per day no problem.
 
Wobmarvel

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Did deadlifts and squats today. Go light considering my hernia (although my pb for deadlifts is only 125kg anyway). I do continuous movement for sets of 20 and keep the movement smooth so dorian yates style (minus about 700lbs of weight) I lower to mid shin but don't touch down and keep movement consistent. I find that this actually works very well for me. I have no squat rack so have to lift the bar to my shoulders. Again I use enough weight so that I can do slow continuous reps without pausing at the top. Still light but by the twentieth rep your still being challenged, also I go past parallel so really feel it in my legs. Not gonna lie though I'm only using around 50kg plus the bar so very light. Lifting it back over my head at the end is still a risky game to play. Messed around with front squats but still working on form.

Next workout will be push.
 
Mzakif

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So for anyone who didn't see my last log I'm 43, 6 foot tall currently weigh 185lbs, relatively lean but haven't measured scientifically. I recon between 12 and 15% bodyfat. If I tense, stand in the right light, turn at the right angle, then shut my eyes and picture Frank Zane I can see my abs.

Cycles I've ran in over the years, CEL h-drol, chaparral labs megavol, Brawn Epi, ostarine, lgd 4033, ostarine plus S4, superdrol plus lgd with dermacrine. I think that's it. I've been 168 lbs and sub 10% bodyfat (last year, wanted to see my abs midlife crisis) and I've been 215 lbs with a 4 pack (megavol cycle, crazy stuff, work out Monday and see results in the mirror on Thursday)

Anyway ill update again soon with a diet breakdown.
Was brawn epi good ?
 
Mzakif

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Get an aromatize inhibitor and prami/caber to keep on hand. Epistane will do little to nothing for estrogen; in fact, it would potentially make gyno worse. Cycle looks good though, subbed.
These recommendations cause of other compounds not epi right?
 
Wobmarvel

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These recommendations cause of other compounds not epi right?
Trest can cause severe prolactin issues in people as can 19 nor compounds so the combination could be risky but we'll see how it goes. I always have aromasin but only rely on natural anti prolactin products.
 
Wobmarvel

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Was brawn epi good ?
It was okay but not as effective as the hdrol. Hdrol was my first ever cycle though plus I was bulking on it whereas with the epi I was cutting fat so difficult to judge.
 
Mzakif

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It was okay but not as effective as the hdrol. Hdrol was my first ever cycle though plus I was bulking on it whereas with the epi I was cutting fat so difficult to judge.
Good as I’ve seen mixed reviews about some people say it’s under dosed.

I have some for summer cutting cycle.

What are natural prolactin products.
 
Wobmarvel

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Good as I’ve seen mixed reviews about some people say it’s under dosed.

I have some for summer cutting cycle.

What are natural prolactin products.
Inhibit P by sns is what I use. Not as effective as caber etc. It's the equivalent of running an Oct pct instead of clomid/nolva but never given me any problems.
 
RickyBlobby

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Yes, although epistane itself can cause gyno. It never hurts to keep an ai and serm on hand.
Yeah, be especially mindful of rebound gyno during or even after PCT with epistane
 
Mzakif

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Yeah, be especially mindful of rebound gyno during or even after PCT with epistane
As far as I understand Epistane won’t cause gyno on cycle

But I can’t understand stand why it causes gyno on PCT or post cycle ?

How long after cycle I should consider I’m safe from gyno ?

I have arimidex will it be enough or I would need anything else ?
 
AnabolicGuru

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As far as I understand Epistane won’t cause gyno on cycle

But I can’t understand stand why it causes gyno on PCT or post cycle ?

How long after cycle I should consider I’m safe from gyno ?

I have arimidex will it be enough or I would need anything else ?
It shouldn’t cause gyno on cycle, but that doesn’t mean that it won’t. Arimidex is fine, although some extra nolva as well wouldn’t hurt.
 
Mzakif

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It shouldn’t cause gyno on cycle, but that doesn’t mean that it won’t. Arimidex is fine, although some extra nolva as well wouldn’t hurt.
I have nolva for pct whenever i have gyno issue will get back to you guys to tell me how to dose it

Thanks allot
 
AnabolicGuru

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I have nolva for pct whenever i have gyno issue will get back to you guys to tell me how to dose it

Thanks allot
Chances are that you won’t get gyno, but it’s better safe than sorry lol
 
Wobmarvel

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Well no workout tonight since its taken ages to get the kids off to sleep. Plan now will be push day tomorrow.

Still getting headaches but nothing else to report as of yet.
 
Wobmarvel

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So I now have a dillema. Woke up in the night feeling extremely nautious. No cold/flu symptoms just feeling sick.

Still like it today, haven't been sick. Have been to the toilet and it seemed normal (too much info I know). Sitting at work drinking water just now trying to decide if I'm going home.

Don't know if I should be "that guy" who pulls the plug on the cycle within days of starting. Still took everything this morning but I'm not even a week in so if I stopped to reevaluate I would still have enough to run a full cycle at a later date. Maybe stagger the compounds to identify if one of them is to blame. Or I could stick it out and see if it improves over the next day or two but I don't see me eating much or working out today.

I'm feeling a bit shivery at work and am very conscious of not taking paracetamol or ibuprofen with the harsh liver stuff already going on.

Will update later.
 
Wobmarvel

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So I've been home now for 2 hours basically went to bed fully clothed and popped some paracetamol (so I didn't take my midday dose of epi and trest) I will still see what I can sleep off but I almost feel like I could eat something so will see what I'm like in another couple of hours.
 
AnabolicGuru

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Yea, I doubt the cycle is causing your symptoms, especially this early on. Hopefully whatever’s wrong gets better though.
 
Bigmatt57

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I’m running epistane right now also, I’ve ran it before once and about 4 days in I was throwing up all night, was the worst night of my life. I know it was the epistane to because I got off if it for about a week. Got back on and for the first few days I got some nauseous spells, but they went away after a few days.
 

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I am looking forward to seeing your progress on this cycle!
 
Wobmarvel

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Quick update, after some rest I started feeling better so I took what should have been my midday dose and experienced headaches but not much else. My wife has gotten ill too so I think I've just had unlucky timing. I'm gonna skip them all today and if I continue feeling better get back on the horse tomorrow.
 
Wobmarvel

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Also I'm continuing to take my support supps to keep them loading. Using dihydrocodeine left over from my hernia operation prescription do I'm not taking the anabolics at the same time due to liver stress.
 
Bigmatt57

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Quick update, after some rest I started feeling better so I took what should have been my midday dose and experienced headaches but not much else. My wife has gotten ill too so I think I've just had unlucky timing. I'm gonna skip them all today and if I continue feeling better get back on the horse tomorrow.
Drink about 1-2 gallons of water on epistane, I was also getting headaches then I started drinking more water. Your body barley holds water on epistane.
 
Wobmarvel

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Definitely feel I'm on the mend. Back on cycle today but gonna take it easy and only dose twice instead if 3 times with the epi and trest and see how I hold up. Appetite is still a bit suppressed. Will maybe throw a workout together tonight if I'm up for it.
 
Wobmarvel

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Right I don't want to jinx this but that's the cycle back up to full speed. Got in a workout of supersets for chest and shoulders.

Flyes/dips/dumbell press

Seated dumbell press/seated laterals

Feeling better although not 100%. Only issue is still gut related which I hope is fall out from the illness and not the cycle. At its worst its like going into my third week on sd and it's killing appetite. Hope its not the anabolics cos there is no way I'm sticking that out for 6 weeks.

Time will tell.
 
Wobmarvel

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Okay from today cycle is stopped. Up in the night with bad heartburn, stomach pains and throwing up. I feel better this morning but I've made the mistake of continuing before and regretted it.

I have a feeling its the havoc. I could probably swap it out halodrol and start afresh but that's not happening now. After the last week I just want to enjoy Xmas with my family.
 
Wobmarvel

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I could try each compound individually but I'm gonna let myself recover fully first. Apologies to anyone following along. I am tempted to pick up a natty stack cos I enjoy running a log but I'm already down £150 on this stack.
 
Wobmarvel

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Quick update. Still not feeling great stomach wise. I've taken no supplements today whatsoever. I am taking heartburn and indigestion tablets after meals though.

Still don't intend to restart the cycle until after Xmas. (may aswell have a few drinks etc.)

When I do strrt again my plan is to start epistane solo to see if it's the problem and if not I'll add the trest and Trenadrol in at week 3 and run for the final four weeks. If the epi gives me stomach pains again I'll write it off and bin it and just run a 4 week cycle of the other two.
 
Wobmarvel

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Okay I have decided what I'm going to log over the next few weeks. I think some of you will find it interesting. I will leave this log open for when I continue with the cycle but will start a new log outlining my plans... It won't be in the anabolics section.
 
Wobmarvel

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Sooooooo... Here I am back again.

For anyone who followed my other thread I have been "going natural" for a few weeks whilst I recovered from a poor start on this cycle.

I put on around 6 lbs in a few weeks with the help of a calorie surplus and Kingslayer by Olympus labs. My workouts and diet were far from consistent however with a mixture of illness, Xmas and family focus. Towards the end however I did get back into the routine and have started nailing my diet back down which I will continue with on this cycle.

Last time I started this things when horribly wrong within a week and I had zero appetite, stomach pains and ended up throwing up. Don't know if I simply had a food bug or if it was the sudden influx of the three peds I had started taking.

Because of that I plan to ease in this time. Still intend to run a 6 week cycle. Will start with havoc 20 mgs per day for a couple of days before bumping up to 30 mgs. Then will start running trest along side at around a week and a half before finally adding the Trenadrol. Hopefully I will be able to identify what messed me up. If it turns out to be the havoc then I will pull the plug again and restart at some point with halodrol.
 
Old Witch

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Yeah, it was probably the stress of all that at once and everything. Get the diet and routine down exactly how you want it to go on cycle for at least a week and then add the drugs in one at a time over three days.
 

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Sooooooo... Here I am back again.

For anyone who followed my other thread I have been "going natural" for a few weeks whilst I recovered from a poor start on this cycle.

I put on around 6 lbs in a few weeks with the help of a calorie surplus and Kingslayer by Olympus labs. My workouts and diet were far from consistent however with a mixture of illness, Xmas and family focus. Towards the end however I did get back into the routine and have started nailing my diet back down which I will continue with on this cycle.

Last time I started this things when horribly wrong within a week and I had zero appetite, stomach pains and ended up throwing up. Don't know if I simply had a food bug or if it was the sudden influx of the three peds I had started taking.

Because of that I plan to ease in this time. Still intend to run a 6 week cycle. Will start with havoc 20 mgs per day for a couple of days before bumping up to 30 mgs. Then will start running trest along side at around a week and a half before finally adding the Trenadrol. Hopefully I will be able to identify what messed me up. If it turns out to be the havoc then I will pull the plug again and restart at some point with halodrol.
Hoping it goes better for you this time around bro
 

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