Epi / Halo : Maniac's Stack

[celc5]

Day 1 PCT

Sunday, May 30, 2010

Clomid 50
Exemestane 12.5

I trained in the 12 rep range through the entire cycle for upper body and more like the 20 rep range for lower body. So I decided to start pct with a bang today... I got a PR with my 1rm for BB bench! I'm totally psyched about that since bench is one of my worst lifts.

PCT supps note, the RC's taste is wicked nasty. Even with an OJ shot and chaser it's pretty bad. I'm gonna get sick of this stuff fast... time to put on my big boy pants :laugh:

I plan to put up a cycle review, stats, notes, etc within the next few days.

 

[laserbluess]

what was the pr on bench? big increase from the start of the cycle?

 

[BeBig]

Day 1 PCT

Sunday, May 30, 2010

Clomid 50
Exemestane 12.5

I trained in the 12 rep range through the entire cycle for upper body and more like the 20 rep range for lower body. So I decided to start pct with a bang today... I got a PR with my 1rm for BB bench! I'm totally psyched about that since bench is one of my worst lifts.

PCT supps note, the RC's taste is wicked nasty. Even with an OJ shot and chaser it's pretty bad. I'm gonna get sick of this stuff fast... time to put on my big boy pants :laugh:

I plan to put up a cycle review, stats, notes, etc within the next few days.

Look forward to the review...

 

[ConcreteConny]

Day 1 PCT

Sunday, May 30, 2010

Clomid 50
Exemestane 12.5

I trained in the 12 rep range through the entire cycle for upper body and more like the 20 rep range for lower body. So I decided to start pct with a bang today... I got a PR with my 1rm for BB bench! I'm totally psyched about that since bench is one of my worst lifts.

PCT supps note, the RC's taste is wicked nasty. Even with an OJ shot and chaser it's pretty bad. I'm gonna get sick of this stuff fast... time to put on my big boy pants :laugh:

I plan to put up a cycle review, stats, notes, etc within the next few days.

Congrats on the PR buddy Nice to see someone use Clomid for PCT, I'm interested in how that treats you, bet you have used it for PCT before?! :squareeyed: I think I will give Clomid a shot for my next PCT.. You prefer it over Nolva?

//CC

 

[celc5]

what was the pr on bench? big increase from the start of the cycle?

I believe 10 pound increase. I worked mostly in the 12 rep range for hypertrophy through the cycle, so I was surprised to see increase in power too.

Look forward to the review...

I put up a bit of the "subjective" review on post #2, page 1. I'll have some more to add though. My initial reaction is usually "omg that was the best cycle in the history of cycles" so i like to see if that feeling sticks around for a week or 2.

Congrats on the PR buddy Nice to see someone use Clomid for PCT, I'm interested in how that treats you, bet you have used it for PCT before?! :squareeyed: I think I will give Clomid a shot for my next PCT.. You prefer it over Nolva?

I have never used Clomid or Nolva in the past. So this is my first time using Clomid. A person who is experienced with AAS suggested that the Clomid frontload is overrated and that 50mg for 4 weeks dose just as much for him as starting at 100 or 150 with typical broski taper.

I have used Torem from 2 separate vendors in the past and it had pretty much no effect for me in hindsight. I had a buddy run a mass spec on C1 Torem and he says it was legit. So I must not respond to Torem :dunno:

I chose Exem as my AI because I was pretty much handcuffed into doing so. I don't like ATD, especially in pct because it's hard on my libido. I don't believe 6oxo or formestane ever really helped me in the pct timeframe, although I do like them very much ON cycle and in test boosting stacks. That leaves bromo, which gets expensive for me since I don't like it until I get to 200mg/day. I believe the exem is going to have just as much effect, even at the low 12.5mg/day dosage.

In terms of other script AIs, I def didn't want to use anything that wasn't a suicide inhibitor. I think i'm gyno prone, so rebound potential would be likely in that scenario.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Congrats on the PR buddy Nice to see someone use Clomid for PCT, I'm interested in how that treats you, bet you have used it for PCT before?! :squareeyed: I think I will give Clomid a shot for my next PCT.. You prefer it over Nolva?

//CC

I almost prefer clomid due to the peter north size loads :fing02: p:

 

[ConcreteConny]

I have never used Clomid or Nolva in the past. So this is my first time using Clomid. A person who is experienced with AAS suggested that the Clomid frontload is overrated and that 50mg for 4 weeks dose just as much for him as starting at 100 or 150 with typical broski taper.

I have used Torem from 2 separate vendors in the past and it had pretty much no effect for me in hindsight. I had a buddy run a mass spec on C1 Torem and he says it was legit. So I must not respond to Torem :dunno:

I chose Exem as my AI because I was pretty much handcuffed into doing so. I don't like ATD, especially in pct because it's hard on my libido. I don't believe 6oxo or formestane ever really helped me in the pct timeframe, although I do like them very much ON cycle and in test boosting stacks. That leaves bromo, which gets expensive for me since I don't like it until I get to 200mg/day. I believe the exem is going to have just as much effect, even at the low 12.5mg/day dosage.

In terms of other script AIs, I def didn't want to use anything that wasn't a suicide inhibitor. I think i'm gyno prone, so rebound potential would be likely in that scenario.

Oh OK! Would be nice to get you honest opinion on Clomid since I'm almost 90% into purchasing that for my next PCT
Regarding the AI; do you think it is necessary or is it just a precaution for the gyno prone thought? As you probably noticed I chickened out on the ATD for my PCT. I figuered go for the Nolva and better to be safe than sorry

I almost prefer clomid due to the peter north size loads :fing02: p:

Sounds awesome, I think you sold me on the clomid concept :lol:

 

[celc5]

CC,
good question with the AI. I have a gyno history and AI's take the lump down whereas serms have never touched it. So I personally believe that the low dose AI is necessary for me as a precaution, even though I had zero estrogenic or prolactin symptoms on this cycle. I also believe that as a general rule, if an AI is used ON cycle, then an AI needs to be continued into pct. I believe that natural test returning has a greater potential to aromatize than exogenous hormones that are 5a reduced.

I also don't believe in the abolish estrogen to jumpstart test theory either. There's too many vision, joint, libido, and especially aggression repercussions for me when I've done that in the past.

Now in terms of the Clomid, I believe I'm shut down pretty hard. But I'm only on day 4 and I think libido feels like it's gonna come back within these next few days. That's faster than I expected, so we'll have to see how that goes in terms of Clomid vs. Torem ability to bring things back into balance.

 

[thebigt]

CC,
good question with the AI. I have a gyno history and AI's take the lump down whereas serms have never touched it. So I personally believe that the low dose AI is necessary for me as a precaution, even though I had zero estrogenic or prolactin symptoms on this cycle. I also believe that as a general rule, if an AI is used ON cycle, then an AI needs to be continued into pct. I believe that natural test returning has a greater potential to aromatize than exogenous hormones that are 5a reduced.

I also don't believe in the abolish estrogen to jumpstart test theory either. There's too many vision, joint, libido, and especially aggression repercussions for me when I've done that in the past.

Now in terms of the Clomid, I believe I'm shut down pretty hard. But I'm only on day 4 and I think libido feels like it's gonna come back within these next few days. That's faster than I expected, so we'll have to see how that goes in terms of Clomid vs. Torem ability to bring things back into balance.

ive done some research on clomid-fertility clinics give it to men having trouble getting their woman knocked up. also some endo's give clomid as a trial run to jump start test levels before putting on lifetime trt. so clomid's use for men is well documented-and this is besides the peter north loads, lol.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

ive done some research on clomid-fertility clinics give it to men having trouble getting their woman knocked up. also some endo's give clomid as a trial run to jump start test levels before putting on lifetime trt. so clomid's use for men is well documented-and this is besides the peter north loads, lol.

LOL :sgrin:

 

[celc5]

ive done some research on clomid-fertility clinics give it to men having trouble getting their woman knocked up. also some endo's give clomid as a trial run to jump start test levels before putting on lifetime trt. so clomid's use for men is well documented-and this is besides the peter north loads, lol.

I was surprised your doc didn't give you clomid and hcg when you first got your trt. I have a suspician that your test was so low because of the Xtren cycle and that you didn't recover with pct... just my opinion though :think:

 

[thebigt]

I was surprised your doc didn't give you clomid and hcg when you first got your trt. I have a suspician that your test was so low because of the Xtren cycle and that you didn't recover with pct... just my opinion though :think:

i agree! but my doc didn't know that and i wasn't going to tell him. if i had been in my 30's or even early 40's i would have been much more hesitant to opt for lifelong trt.

being on test cyp has given me back a lot of the vitality i had lost over the years. but clomid seems to increase test very well-you should have a great recovery on it, imho.

 

[celc5]

Day 5 PCT

Thursday June 3, 2010

Clomid 50
Exem 12.5

Testicular mass has returned very quickly. This is faster than any recovery I have ever experienced. Libido is not quite back yet, but I feel like it's coming soon within the next few days. There may be a bit of lacking psychological confidence in that realm after being shut down pretty hard. So not yet, but almost.

I've only had 2 workouts since going into pct. But they have been productive and on par with workouts during the last 2 weeks of the cycle, minus the cycle pumps/vascularity of course.

I definitely had some bloat in those last 2 weeks of the cycle. The scale is sort of bouncing up and down, but I'm looking a lot sharper in the mirror around the chest and belly.

I'm not having any of the sides typically associated with Clomid. No vision sides, no emotional sides. I'm a bit happy and nicer than usual, so maybe with a higher dosage I'd experience those mood swings that people often describe.

I'm not having any heart palpitations, problems sleeping, BP, or vision issues with the exemestane either. It's a much "cleaner" feeling AI than any of the otc AI's that I've used. Also, otc AI's frequently put me in "kill mode" and the aggression makes me impatient, jittery, and louder than I am anyway.

In short, I don't believe I'm crushing estrogen and it's a much smoother ride.

 

[ConcreteConny]

CC,
good question with the AI. I have a gyno history and AI's take the lump down whereas serms have never touched it. So I personally believe that the low dose AI is necessary for me as a precaution, even though I had zero estrogenic or prolactin symptoms on this cycle. I also believe that as a general rule, if an AI is used ON cycle, then an AI needs to be continued into pct. I believe that natural test returning has a greater potential to aromatize than exogenous hormones that are 5a reduced.

I also don't believe in the abolish estrogen to jumpstart test theory either. There's too many vision, joint, libido, and especially aggression repercussions for me when I've done that in the past.

Now in terms of the Clomid, I believe I'm shut down pretty hard. But I'm only on day 4 and I think libido feels like it's gonna come back within these next few days. That's faster than I expected, so we'll have to see how that goes in terms of Clomid vs. Torem ability to bring things back into balance.

Thanks for the answer my man :thumbsup: So if an AI isn't used ON cycle there wouldn't be that much need for it in PCT..? I'm really looking forward to hear how the clomiphene treats you

ive done some research on clomid-fertility clinics give it to men having trouble getting their woman knocked up. also some endo's give clomid as a trial run to jump start test levels before putting on lifetime trt. so clomid's use for men is well documented-and this is besides the peter north loads, lol.

Yeah, clomiphene has been used for a long time as PCT and as you mentioned; is well documented in other uses. I'm actually looking forward to use it in my next PCT :sgrin:

//CC

 

[celc5]

So if an AI isn't used ON cycle there wouldn't be that much need for it in PCT..?

In my opinion, your assumption is correct. It is my opinion that using an AI ON cycle PLUS the probability of natty test aromatizing makes us vulnerable. The ON cycle AI theoretically makes it more likely for rebound. I used form on cycle for a week or 2, so I figured better be safe in pct and keep an AI in the loop until my body reaches homeostasis.

IMO if an AI isn't used on cycle AND there were no estrogenic or prolactin-like symptoms, then an AI probably isn't mandatory in pct if a serm is being used.

And for the sake of the topic, my personal opinion is that i3c and t-res don't do anything for me in pct. Tried and true, not hyped and new.

Edit: Also Conny you mentioned the studies on Clomid... I've learned from a knowledgeable chemist on another board (you know who T) that Clomid binds strongly in the brain while most other serms bind more strongly to estrogen receptors in breast tissue. That's where the SELECTIVE in selective estrogen receptor modulator (serm) comes from. The clomid selectively binds well in the brain and theoretically that's why it influences HPTA recovery moreso than other serms (maybe why it also tends to influence mood and vision at higher dosages too). Using the same logic, maybe Nolva, Torem, and Ralox would be theoretically better at assisting an AI with gyno symptoms.

 

[thebigt]

In my opinion, your assumption is correct. It is my opinion that using an AI ON cycle PLUS the probability of natty test aromatizing makes us vulnerable. The ON cycle AI theoretically makes it more likely for rebound. I used form on cycle for a week or 2, so I figured better be safe in pct and keep an AI in the loop until my body reaches homeostasis.

IMO if an AI isn't used on cycle AND there were no estrogenic or prolactin-like symptoms, then an AI probably isn't mandatory in pct if a serm is being used.

And for the sake of the topic, my personal opinion is that i3c and t-res don't do anything for me in pct. Tried and true, not hyped and new.

Edit: Also Conny you mentioned the studies on Clomid... I've learned from a knowledgeable chemist on another board (you know who T) that Clomid binds strongly in the brain while most other serms bind more strongly to estrogen receptors in breast tissue. That's where the SELECTIVE in selective estrogen receptor modulator (serm) comes from. The clomid selectively binds well in the brain and theoretically that's why it influences HPTA recovery moreso than other serms (maybe why it also tends to influence mood and vision at higher dosages too). Using the same logic, maybe Nolva, Torem, and Ralox would be theoretically better at assisting an AI with gyno symptoms.

i agree, for hpta recovery clomid. if gyno symtoms are your problem then another choice would probably be best.

i think you have it covered celc with clomid/exem. that looks like a very potent combo.

 

[kingjameskjf]

PCT supps note, the RC's taste is wicked nasty. Even with an OJ shot and chaser it's pretty bad. I'm gonna get sick of this stuff fast... time to put on my big boy pants :laugh:

I plan to put up a cycle review, stats, notes, etc within the next few days.

Yeah, serms are pretty foul! I found a way to almost completely get rid of the taste...at least it worked for me. Every night I have a casein shake before bed. I would pour a little bit of the shake in my mouth (cover the taste buds) and then dispense the serm into my mouth and swallow, then chase it down with the rest of the shake.

CC,
good question with the AI. I have a gyno history and AI's take the lump down whereas serms have never touched it. So I personally believe that the low dose AI is necessary for me as a precaution, even though I had zero estrogenic or prolactin symptoms on this cycle. I also believe that as a general rule, if an AI is used ON cycle, then an AI needs to be continued into pct. I believe that natural test returning has a greater potential to aromatize than exogenous hormones that are 5a reduced.

I also don't believe in the abolish estrogen to jumpstart test theory either. There's too many vision, joint, libido, and especially aggression repercussions for me when I've done that in the past.

Now in terms of the Clomid, I believe I'm shut down pretty hard. But I'm only on day 4 and I think libido feels like it's gonna come back within these next few days. That's faster than I expected, so we'll have to see how that goes in terms of Clomid vs. Torem ability to bring things back into balance.

Interested to see how you continue to respond to you pct combo. Torem and 6-OXO were both great for me but then again, I've never tried clomid for comparison. Looks like your combo is working so far.

 

[celc5]

King,
we're on the same page with the shoot and chase method. I'm actually starting to get used to the serm/ai in an oj shot chased with about 1/2 cup more OJ. So it's tolerable now... thank goodness

Concerning the Torem, I have a feeling that it's just not something that I respond to. Like I said, I'm pretty confident that my Torem was legit per mass spec. Dosage wise, well who knows if RCs are as concentrated as they're supposed to be. We'll never know that as far as I can tell.

I do like 6oxo a lot usually. It's a wicked stacker with a fat burner to help maintain libido and keep strength up when I get cranky during a cut.

In pct, all I know is that I was shut down hard from epi/sd bridge and recovery wasn't satisfactory during pct with Torem/6oxo. Then I got rebound gyno afterwards, which thank goodness has resolved with time.

 

[thebigt]

King,
we're on the same page with the shoot and chase method. I'm actually starting to get used to the serm/ai in an oj shot chased with about 1/2 cup more OJ. So it's tolerable now... thank goodness

Concerning the Torem, I have a feeling that it's just not something that I respond to. Like I said, I'm pretty confident that my Torem was legit per mass spec. Dosage wise, well who knows if RCs are as concentrated as they're supposed to be. We'll never know that as far as I can tell.

I do like 6oxo a lot usually. It's a wicked stacker with a fat burner to help maintain libido and keep strength up when I get cranky during a cut.

In pct, all I know is that I was shut down hard from epi/sd bridge and recovery wasn't satisfactory during pct with Torem/6oxo. Then I got rebound gyno afterwards, which thank goodness has resolved with time.

so you planning to run sd again any time soon, lol.

i owe you a debt, i was close to running sd myself until you related your experience with it-i will never run that toxic stuff!!!

 

[celc5]

T,
I think the people who say they tolerated SD were the lucky minority. And they think they are cool to say that are so tough that they can tolerate a drug that a most people can't. They can all lick each others' buttholes as far as I'm concerned :nutkick:

SD crushed libido and was a bear to recover from. I think it took months past pct. I felt extremely unhealthy, lethargic, a bit hazy with thinking. And my HDL, which is typically spectacular was destroyed with post pct bloodwork. It took a LOOONG time for HDL to get back to normal, almost a year of it creeping back up little by little.

We've also discussed the rebound gyno and prolactin symptoms that I got down the road.

For those who can tolerate SD, they can have it. For those that haven't ran it, it's not worth being a beast in the gym for a few weeks in exchange for all other aspects of health and life taking a back seat.

 

[thebigt]

T,
I think the people who say they tolerated SD were the lucky minority. And they think they are cool to say that are so tough that they can tolerate a drug that a most people can't. They can all lick each others' buttholes as far as I'm concerned :nutkick:

SD crushed libido and was a bear to recover from. I think it took months past pct. I felt extremely unhealthy, lethargic, a bit hazy with thinking. And my HDL, which is typically spectacular was destroyed with post pct bloodwork. It took a LOOONG time for HDL to get back to normal, almost a year of it creeping back up little by little.

We've also discussed the rebound gyno and prolactin symptoms that I got down the road.

For those who can tolerate SD, they can have it. For those that haven't ran it, it's not worth being a beast in the gym for a few weeks in exchange for all other aspects of health and life taking a back seat.

thanks celc-you prevented me having to learn this the hard way. no way will i ever run sd after hearing your thoughts on it. reps for taking one for the team, lol.:lol:

 

[ConcreteConny]

T,
I think the people who say they tolerated SD were the lucky minority. And they think they are cool to say that are so tough that they can tolerate a drug that a most people can't. They can all lick each others' buttholes as far as I'm concerned :nutkick:

SD crushed libido and was a bear to recover from. I think it took months past pct. I felt extremely unhealthy, lethargic, a bit hazy with thinking. And my HDL, which is typically spectacular was destroyed with post pct bloodwork. It took a LOOONG time for HDL to get back to normal, almost a year of it creeping back up little by little.

We've also discussed the rebound gyno and prolactin symptoms that I got down the road.

For those who can tolerate SD, they can have it. For those that haven't ran it, it's not worth being a beast in the gym for a few weeks in exchange for all other aspects of health and life taking a back seat.

thanks celc-you prevented me having to learn this the hard way. no way will i ever run sd after hearing your thoughts on it. reps for taking one for the team, lol.:lol:

Yeah I'm in the same boat. I've thought about purchasing a bottle for a future run. I'm not willing to take the risk any more :no:

//CC

 

[celc5]

Day 8 PCT

Clomid 50
Exem 12.5

Drive 4 caps/day
RPM as needed
Trib 2-4g daily
Fenugreek 3-4 caps/day (as stomach tolerates)

I think today is day 8, right? :laugh: Anyhow, I'm feeling pretty healthy in post cycle so far. Workouts have been productive as has cardio. Mood has been even keel and I've exercised restraint during a few difficult times (can any of you imagine ME keeping my mouth shut? I doubt it LOL)

Body composition wise, I'm looking a lot leaner even though I've kept my calories/macros pretty much the same as ON cycle. I believe that's the bloat/water weight starting to dissipate some. Also the first 2 weeks of HST (my pct routine of choice), almost always shreds me up no matter the cals.

Libido isn't quite back yet, but testicular mass is completely back. Maybe even a bit beyond normal. I did have sex this weekend, but I gotta tell ya it was a lousy performance by me. Leon Phelps would be ashamed :afro:

In the past, I liked Thundergod's combo of icariin/testofen. I don't tolerate testofen in high enough doses for full effect (2g 2x/day irritates my stomach). So I substituted trib for the testofen. In which case, I got my icariin from Drive, low dose fenugreek, and some NOW trib. I'm also taking RPM as needed, which is one of my favorite stims (despite it's reputation as being mild/weak).

 

[kingjameskjf]

King,
we're on the same page with the shoot and chase method. I'm actually starting to get used to the serm/ai in an oj shot chased with about 1/2 cup more OJ. So it's tolerable now... thank goodness

Concerning the Torem, I have a feeling that it's just not something that I respond to. Like I said, I'm pretty confident that my Torem was legit per mass spec. Dosage wise, well who knows if RCs are as concentrated as they're supposed to be. We'll never know that as far as I can tell.

I do like 6oxo a lot usually. It's a wicked stacker with a fat burner to help maintain libido and keep strength up when I get cranky during a cut.

In pct, all I know is that I was shut down hard from epi/sd bridge and recovery wasn't satisfactory during pct with Torem/6oxo. Then I got rebound gyno afterwards, which thank goodness has resolved with time.

Glad it's easier to get down now. I remember your earlier post about your epi/sd combo hellish cycle! Good to see that your pct is going much smoother this time.

 

[celc5]

Glad it's easier to get down now. I remember your earlier post about your epi/sd combo hellish cycle! Good to see that your pct is going much smoother this time.

Ya, i think I was shut down pretty hard with this cycle too. It's my own fault though for continuing to increase the dosages. Maybe a bit more patience would have allowed for just as productive of a cycle in hindsight :think:

Despite feeling shut down, I'm still bouncing back much more easily than epi/sd bridge without a doubt.

 

[schwellington]

Dude Sd sucked ass....I was going to run a bridge into epi- SD''s sides where debilitating- I couldnt sleep and was lethargic all day long- libido GONE- I did four days of it scrapped it and started on epi and 11 oxo....cycles is going fine libido back sleep good lethargy- a minimal. I see you stacked two methyls together which is generally NOT reccomended- but Im for going against the grain- have you had any liver work done? Or how do you feel? Curious- I might run this stack next cut phase if it checks out

 

[celc5]

My personal experience in the past was that liver values were within normal limits over the past few years between every designer I've ran. It's quite possible that I was lucky, so take that with a grain of salt. Anyhow, I doubt liver enzymes skewed too much on this cycle either. I don't get pct bloodwork because the serm and ai have well documented implications and we know what we'll see. I bet a month or so after pct, I might have bloods drawn to be sure I'm healthy again though.

I've been thinking about this cycle a bit. And I think it would have been more productive to run Halo solo because I could have kept it going longer after the workout intensity started to shoot up in the 4th week. I'm thinking all the epi did was shut me down (and probably didn't add much) before I was able to reap the best results of the cycle.

I suspect that Halo even at 75 and 100 wouldn't have hindered libido and that I wouldn't have had the lethargy that I experienced. In this case, I'm unlucky in that epithios have always made me extremely lethargic.

Don't get me wrong, this was an awesome run. But in hindsight, I would prefer to run Halo solo and maybe ramp up the dosage as I went for a bit longer time period.

 

[ConcreteConny]

My personal experience in the past was that liver values were within normal limits over the past few years between every designer I've ran. It's quite possible that I was lucky, so take that with a grain of salt. Anyhow, I doubt liver enzymes skewed too much on this cycle either. I don't get pct bloodwork because the serm and ai have well documented implications and we know what we'll see. I bet a month or so after pct, I might have bloods drawn to be sure I'm healthy again though.

I've been thinking about this cycle a bit. And I think it would have been more productive to run Halo solo because I could have kept it going longer after the workout intensity started to shoot up in the 4th week. I'm thinking all the epi did was shut me down (and probably didn't add much) before I was able to reap the best results of the cycle.

I suspect that Halo even at 75 and 100 wouldn't have hindered libido and that I wouldn't have had the lethargy that I experienced. In this case, I'm unlucky in that epithios have always made me extremely lethargic.

Don't get me wrong, this was an awesome run. But in hindsight, I would prefer to run Halo solo and maybe ramp up the dosage as I went for a bit longer time period.

Good and very informative feedback my man :thumbsup: How's PCT been the last few days? Everything's going smooth?

//CC

 

[celc5]

Good and very informative feedback my man :thumbsup: How's PCT been the last few days? Everything's going smooth?

//CC

Good timing with your question, it's time for a week 2 pct update anyhow In the first 2 weeks of pct, during my HST 15's phase, I pr'd 6 out of 9 major lifts. So workouts are going great.

Body comp wise, I'm leaning out little by little. The scale has been bouncing up and down, but I look a lot harder now than I did at the end of the cycle.

Libido and lethargy sides are both slowly, yet steadily getting better every day. I'm not completely in the clear yet, but I feel more positive than I did at this point after the epi/sd bridge.

In terms of PCT supps, clomid's effect on testicular mass is awesome. It's not the libido miracle that we're all hoping for... at least not at the low dosage (50mg) that I'm running.

The low dose exem is doing it's job. That's probably playing a role in the leaning effect I'm experiencing in pct. It actually feels A LOT like a real low dose of formestane, which I don't really think is all that great in pct. I dunno fellas, I can't tell if it's the answer to my pct AI conundrum or not :think:

The drive, rpm, fenugreek, trib, and white flood that I've been using over the past week are all great. It gives me a tad of aggression, nice mood effect, and a bit of a libido boost. The only problem is that I'm gonna have to drop the fen again because of GI discomfort. Otherwise, nice stack.

 

[Xupeta]

Yeah I'm in the same boat. I've thought about purchasing a bottle for a future run. I'm not willing to take the risk any more :no:

//CC

I have also wanted to buy pro stav, but I decided not to risk my health

 

[ax1]

excellent log, very informative.

 

[celc5]

excellent log, very informative.

Thanks buddy glad you're following still :head:

 

[thebigt]

surprised that clomid hasn't boosted libido more-you must have been shut down hard!!!!

i am seriously considering a run of clomid just to see what effect it will give me.

 

[celc5]

surprised that clomid hasn't boosted libido more-you must have been shut down hard!!!!

i am seriously considering a run of clomid just to see what effect it will give me.

interestingly, libido pretty much bounced back all of the sudden yesterday. If bedroom performance was an F week 4 ON cycle, grade D day 7 pct, it's a B on day 14. Not sure if it's the Clomid finally kicking in, the added supps (drive/trib/etc) or what, but I'm feeling almost normal now. ...I'm wondering if the Exem is actually hindering libido a bit, similar to my formestane response in pct :think:

Oh and my girl said they felt like cantalopes... no joke, no exaggeration on my part, her EXACT words :afro: I'm pretty sure it's the Clomid that is responsible for bringing back testicular mass for me.

T, it's really possible that the effects would have occurred sooner if I would have run the broski doses at 150 for a few days, tapered to 100, then 50 for a while too.

 

[kurazy kracka]

great log. i ****ed with sd a couple months ago. **** messed me up real bad. sides were awful BUT i did gain 10 lbs in 2 weeks and have kept every bit of it since then.

 

[BowTie4Life]

Summary and Final Review to added to Post #2 for easy reference

Dosing Summary
Hdrol 50/75/75/100
Epistane 30/30/40/50
Cycle Assist
*Phenibut as needed to help with sleep quality
*Myodrol added around week 4 to address prostate symptoms
*Formestane was added around week 3 and 4 (it did not help to revive libido as I hoped)

PCT Plans
Clomid
Exem

Macros
Approximately 300/300/80
Typically 6 meals

Split
Alternating weeks:
A: Typical 4 day split
B: Push / Pull split (4 working days as well)

PCT Routine: HST

History
Halo, Phera, Epi to SD bridge, Pmag

To any one with the knowledge. Im new, so if i posted a thread in the wrong area, then my bad. Im getting ready to start my first cycle ever. Im running H-drol with Tren-E. What should my dosage be, and when should i start my PCT. Thank you for any feedback.

 

[celc5]

great log. i ****ed with sd a couple months ago. **** messed me up real bad. sides were awful BUT i did gain 10 lbs in 2 weeks and have kept every bit of it since then.

IIRC I kept my gains for quite a while as well. But just like you are saying, I didn't feel healthy at all throughout the cycle, in pct, or after pct for that matter. I guess you and I had to learn the hard way I suppose.

 

[imjuschillin]

Wow! What an interesting read!

celc5 I gotta say, that was one of the most insightful logs I've maybe ever read. You seemed fair, thorough, unbiased, descriptive. Nice job.

I'll admit... Though i haven't really delved into the world oh PH's at all, I too have been contemplating perhaps even a "pulse" of Superdrol, but after reading here. I think perhaps not even...

I'm still thinking Bold or Epi or H-Drol for my first.

Lemme ask you a ? if I may... You said you didn't drop the bodyfat quite like you thought you would, and if you could do again you'd run the H drol solo... From what I've read Epi's effects of fat loss are much more pronounced. Much more lean, dry gains. Am I wrong here? I've also read though that Epi's effects on lose of libido/sex function is generally less that H-drol too though, so... Hmmm....

Am I perhaps mistaken in thinking overall H-drol is 'harsher' than Epi?

Cheers!

 

[celc5]

I appreciate the compliments. I do my best to share my experiences honestly and to share all the wasted time I've spent learning about supplements and designers like halo and epithio :study:

In which case, the power of suggestion and marketing, in my opinion, has created a bit of a bias toward epithios. I like the compound and it's productive, but can't compare to halo IMO.

In my experience, Halo is better for mass, drier in that you won't be carb sensitive, just as good for strength, and less harsh in terms of recovery than epithio. IME it's a better compound from every single comparison standpoint. I'd be more inclined to run Halo for longer than 4 weeks than I would be epithio.

I also believe that otc ptc SHOULD suffice for MOST people after a halo solo run. I don't think otc will cut it with epithio since it causes testicular atrophy (for me within 2-3 weeks), even when running the "typical" 40mg.

For me personally, epithio is NOT dry at all. I'm carb sensitive, experience some mild bloat, and it causes testicular atrophy for me. At a low dose, epithio boosts my libido tremendously! But as the cycle progresses and/or as the dosages increase, it does hinder libido for me.

Feel free to ask more about these 2 compounds. I enjoy the shop talk :fing02:

 

[ax1]

celc5,

do you believe running a serm like clomid for hdrol or pmag is better for those who wish to recover htpa faster and not worry about losing muscle mass while cutting during pct?

otc worked great for me, but i waited over 4 weeks to start doing cardio/cutting again. im going with clomid for my new pmag cycle so i can just do what i gotta do worry free, if that is the case.

 

[celc5]

KJI, first off, you are going to really enjoy running PMag. It's strength is that it gives a real "feel good" vibe throughout the cycle. It's not harsh in terms of sides and it's the EASIEST pct that I've ever ran. Btw, my cycle was 75mg for 6 weeks. I think I gained about 3 pounds on the scale while bf dropped 1 or 2% according to calipers (ballpark numbers IIRC).

Your question regarding pct is valid. Thus far, Clomid has been the best pct choice that I've used in any category. IMO it's more productive than any serm, test booster, or miscellaneous pct choice.

That being said, if you have reason to believe that there could be repurcussion from using an unneeded serm, I think you would do just fine with otc pct pending your dosages and cycle length are reasonable.

...I guess I didn't actually give an opinion. I think I sat on the fence with that one :laugh:

Philosophically, I'm beginning to think that AI's don't have a place in pct for me, unless they are used to address a gyno type scenario. They just don't pack any punch for me in pct like they do while ON cycle or in an NHA style stack (that includes my favorite, formestane).

Also, I have no response whatsoever to t-res products, i3c, and test boosters in general (other than enhanced libido with test boosters). Taking all of that into consideration, maybe I'll be considering a Clomid only pct in the future (pending sides or problems that need addressed of course).

 

[ax1]

thanks, that was informative.

i think ill go ahead and run clomid standalone in pct (plus cort bloc week 2,) no ai and no test booster. after cycle is over, i may wanna go all out and cut due to the hot season it is here in north korea. if winter ill prolly re-do my hdrol pct.

ill be running pmag 50/75/75/75/75 but i may bump to 75 tomorrow on day 2 already and consider 100 the final week. dont know till i get there.

you ran OTC pct for your pmag?

thanks for letting me jack your thread.

 

[BowTie4Life]

Hey guys, I just started my first PH cycle of Hdrol. I was wondering if i could gain some knowledge from all you veterans out there. My question is, What should my dosage be and is it ok to stack Tren E with it. Im tacking cycle assist, and my PCT is Liver assist, and Inhibit E. Would this not be a sufficient PCT? Any feeback would be great! Thanks....

 

[celc5]

AX1,
my pmag pct was sustain alpha TD (dud), Hyperdrol (awesome except it has too much forslean which wrecks my stomach), and endoamp (dud, least productive cort control supp I've ever tried). Recovery was just fine despite my lame pct choices.

2 things to keep in mind. Pmag slightly irritated old gyno symptoms whereas Hdrol does not for me personally. And in my opinion, Pmag is NOT the recomp agent that Hdrol is. Hdrol allows for a lot of leeway with carbs while Pmag requires close attention to carbs, especially around this time of year.

Your dosing plan sounds completely reasonable to me. Keep your goals reasonable and you will be pleased with how productive a mild compound like Pmag can be :thumbsup:

BowTie,
Tren E as in an oral designer? If so, I've never ran any tren designers so take my opinion with a grain of salt. Just an fyi, trens are now illegal (in the US as of January that is) too so you may want to discuss those compounds with caution.

My opinion is that tren shuts people down harder than it's reputation suggests. By the nature of your questions, you should stick with Halo solo. If you are so new that you need to ask about dosages, you most definitely are not educated enough to remedy the potential sides from a Tren product.

 

[BowTie4Life]

celc5,
Thanks for the knowledge brother. I read some other threads, and saw were guys had stacked tren with H-Drol. I should have asked first cause I've already purchased it, but i wont take it. I was waiting for a reply but wanted it to get here in enough time due to me being deployed. Well Thanks again, and will continue to get my knowledge up....

Bowtie4life,

 

[thebigt]

interestingly, libido pretty much bounced back all of the sudden yesterday. If bedroom performance was an F week 4 ON cycle, grade D day 7 pct, it's a B on day 14. Not sure if it's the Clomid finally kicking in, the added supps (drive/trib/etc) or what, but I'm feeling almost normal now. ...I'm wondering if the Exem is actually hindering libido a bit, similar to my formestane response in pct :think:

Oh and my girl said they felt like cantalopes... no joke, no exaggeration on my part, her EXACT words :afro: I'm pretty sure it's the Clomid that is responsible for bringing back testicular mass for me.

T, it's really possible that the effects would have occurred sooner if I would have run the broski doses at 150 for a few days, tapered to 100, then 50 for a while too.

so, if you had to do it over-would you run the broski doses?

 

[ConcreteConny]

so, if you had to do it over-would you run the broski doses?

2nd that!?
How's everything otherwise? Feeling good and back to normal?
My PCT ended yesterday..

//CC

 

[celc5]

T,
good question. At this point, I think if I was shut down hard like I was with this cycle, it would have been interesting to see if the broski doses would have done. Maybe it would have instigated a quicker recovery??? If the cycle was mild, the low doses I'm using are absolutely plenty and 1000% better than the supplemental serm alternatives that are being pushed on the forums.

Conny,
workout wise, I'm as strong as I've ever been in my life. Workouts have been fun and productive in terms of body composition. I'm looking much leaner than I was at the end of the cycle.... in which case in hindsight, bloat was much much more of an issue than I admitted (or that I realized) at that time. Again, epithio bloats me somethin fierce, similar to a phera, so I should have seen that coming anyhow.

 

[cdon24]

might be a dumb question but the Epi you are refering to, is that Epitest by powerlabs?

 

[celc5]

might be a dumb question but the Epi you are refering to, is that Epitest by powerlabs?

I used IBE epistane, it was a beta bottle from the first batch that was put out a few years back. When that ran out, I used an IBE bottle that was put out last summer.

In my opinion, both batches were exactly the same and legit. My response to both of these IBE bottles was exactly the same as my response to RPN Havoc about 2 years ago.