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Election 2004: Who are you voting for?

Who will you be voting for in November?

  • George W. Bush

    Votes: 89 56.7%

  • John Kerry

    Votes: 53 33.8%

  • Ralph Nader

    Votes: 2 1.3%

  • Not voting - they all suck.

    Votes: 13 8.3%
  • Total voters
    157
Status
Not open for further replies.
Hey, thanks. The graphic is actually the band Soilwork's logo, but I thought of the 'Reconstructing the Human Machine" part:) Didnt have time to design a cool pic, so I slapped that one on there. Always wanted to make it a tatoo.:)

BV
 
VanillaGorilla said:
Is this a joke? The Clintons were one of the most corrupt administrations in the history of this country. Even if you take the corruption factor out they are both the most dishonest liars. Do a little research on them.
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Exactly what I was thinking :D But most people see what happened with the internet and technology boom and equate it to Bill Clinton's policies, which is ridiculous, but he'll go down in history for it.

CNN will be sure of it! Of course they'll not let you in on the war that started coincidentally soon after the Monical Lewinsky scanal ensued AND the nuke plans that leaked into China directly by clinton's hand, etc., etc., etc. But then again, Clinton created 20M jobs, right? Wrong, the Internet created the jobs! :rant:

I personally am voting GWB. I'm bumbed on some of his policies; them main one being his policy on illegal immigration-- do nothing! The war in Iraq is very debatable, so I wont even go there. Job loss is attributed to everything, but his policies, but he's going to have to eat that one. Between the drastic fall in the tech boom, the Clinton-Gore inherited recession, 9/11, and the related stock market collapse he had quite the mess to pick up.

I'm a Libertarian all the way around, so I was bumbed on many of GWB's social programs and policies, but I have the distinct feeling that he will be much more fiscally conservative next time around. After all, he doesn't have run again so he's got nothing to lose after that.

I'm not going to get started on John Kerry, I hate him and everything about him. I hate John Edwards even more. <- Edwards is a real son-of-a-bitch! Do a litte research on how he made his money and exactly what his lawsuits consisted of. You'll be disgusted (I hope). If you're not then you either didn't get the whole story or "didn't get it". LOL.

I would just vote Libertarian to help the multi-party cause, but I think the guy who's running for the Presidency representing the Lib. party right now is a pussy. I don't like him much.

EDIT: Relieving news: Invalid Link Removed

Shows the stats on Bush v Kerry (latest poll).
 
Kerry is a political moron. I though he might have been smarter when they tried to keep Hillary from speaking at the dem. convention. Any political hack knows that Hillary wants to be president. Kerry has recently surrounded him self with many Clinton advisers. They work for the Clintons and obviously don't want Kerry elected either. A few weeks ago some intimate campaign strategies of a conversation between Clinton and Kerry were leaked to the NY Times. I wonder where the leak came from? At this point all Bush has to do is not screw up in the debates and he should win barring any disaster. Kerry has shot him self in the foot and hired people who want to cut his legs out from under him. Kerry was on the Imus show last week and could not answer a simply question. To get him to answer anything was like trying to nail Jell-O to the wall. He won't say what his plan is for Iraq other to say he can get support from the UN who is totally ramped with corruption and were getting paid off by sadam. Imus asked him 15 times what his plan was and he finally said he couldn't say until January. This doesn't help him at all, seeing that many people have the perception of him being a flip flopper. His plan for Iraq on his web site is pretty much the same as Bush's. The Swift vote vet commercials really hurt him. All he had to do was sign a form and release all his military records but he still hasn't done that. Finally, the alleged fake CBS memos could end up hurting him as well. If it comes out that the memos were given to CBS by the Kerry camp he is prob. done. Bush is starting to pull ahead in a few states that the Democrats take for granted.
 
A fiscally conservative approach is a must in the immediate future for the USA. If not, a serious economic decline is in the works.
 
A fiscally conservative approach is a must in the immediate future for the USA. If not, a serious economic decline is in the works.
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Unfortunately neither candidate appears to be fiscally conservative. Bush cut taxes but hasn't cut spending at all. He has actually increased government spending quite a bit. Kerry will raise taxes and government spending. My hope is that if bush is reelected, he won't have to worry about the next election and will start acting like a conservative.I.E cut government by 75%.
 
Rush Limbaugh believes the Kerry campaign has been sabotaged by Hilary Clinton.
In short:
Where is John Edwards these days? He out in rural America rather than swing states. He won't be an opponent for Clinton in 2008.
Kerry had his campaign advisors nearly completely restaffed - 90% of the new personale work for Hilary Clinton.
Bill Clinton conveniently is in the hospital.
Hilary Clinton isn't on the campaign trail.
So Kerry is all by himself. It's sad.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
re: Clinton Advisors for Kerry
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Great point. That was the most stupid move Kerry could have made. LOL. They're obviously not working either. Especially after seeing Bush's 13 pt. lead in the polls.
size said:
re: fiscal conservative approach being necessary.
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Agreed 100%.
VanillaGorilla said:
re: Neither candidate is a fiscal conservative
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GWB did sure has hell have a big 4 years of spending :(

After reviewing the OMB projections, etc. I feel a little bit more optomistic about the turn for fiscal conservatism. You're not going to see Raeganomics, that's for sure, but I believe it will be the most conservative 4 years we've had in atleast 12 years :p LOL.

All I know is that I was floored when I heard him making a campaign promise of revising tax code at the RNC! The republicans will never live it down if he doesn't fulfill this promise, so I'm sure he really wants to work on that. That alone would be worth the 4 years! Now we just need to get his religious ass tied down to a bed and chinese water torture his ass until he does something to stop the illegal immigration!! (Sorry, I live in California, so this really hits home for me.)
 
TheUnlikelyToad said:
Kerry, Kerry, Kerry...Kerry!:)
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Kerry, Kerry, Kerry, echo........

(crickets)

not making fun, just the Kerry campaign is in the toilet.

It never was much more than: If you hate George Bush, vote for me.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
Bush is starting to pull ahead in a few states that the Democrats take for granted.
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This is true, but: The Dems have actually pulled there advertising from some swing states. Missouri (bush up 12?), Michigan (bush up 8?), and even Wisconsin which when to Gore (Bush up 4). Kerry is conceeding those already it seems.

Bush is up in New Jeresey (+4)
Bush is down in New York by just 6
Bush is down in California by single digits, when it was previously 24 (july).
 
Deoudes59 said:
This is true, but: The Dems have actually pulled there advertising from some swing states. Missouri (bush up 12?), Michigan (bush up 8?), and even Wisconsin which when to Gore (Bush up 4). Kerry is conceeding those already it seems.

Bush is up in New Jeresey (+4)
Bush is down in New York by just 6
Bush is down in California by single digits, when it was previously 24 (july).
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A republican up in Jersey and almost half of NY, that's amazing. The more people find out who John Kerry is the better for Bush. :thumbsup:
 
I'm sure this campaign has been sabotaged.
The party belongs to the Clintons.
 
Deoudes59 said:
I'm sure this campaign has been sabotaged.
The party belongs to the Clintons.
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I think you give them too much credit. Is it not possible that simply USA citizens simply recognize that Kerry has little to no platform?

:frustrate :
 
Kerry has less than just no platform :D It has become almost hilarious these days.

I mean honestly, "The W stands for wrong!" WFT is that? I had my suspicions before, but now I truly believe that John Kerry believes that at least 51% of the American people are absolute morons. It's honestly insulting listening to the asshole and I'm embarassed for the people who clap "at him".

I don't think the Clinton's are sabotaging his campaign, they're just not saving it.

Just for historical purposes, I'd sure get a kick out of seeing either CA or NY go to anyone other than a Democrat. I'm anxious to see what the future holds :D
 
I don't think the Clinton's are sabotaging his campaign, they're just not saving it.
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If you look at all the moves the Clintons made that don't really get reported on they have taken over the democratic party and don't want Kerry to win. Why do you think they go so upset that Hillary wasn't speaking at the convention? The answer is that it's a prelude to her 2008 run for the white house. The bottom line is Hillary wants to be president and they aren't going to let anyone get in her way.......including Kerry.
 
kwyckemynd00 said:
Kerry has less than just no platform :D It has become almost hilarious these days.

I mean honestly, "The W stands for wrong!" WFT is that? I had my suspicions before, but now I truly believe that John Kerry believes that at least 51% of the American people are absolute morons. It's honestly insulting listening to the asshole and I'm embarassed for the people who clap "at him".

I don't think the Clinton's are sabotaging his campaign, they're just not saving it.

Just for historical purposes, I'd sure get a kick out of seeing either CA or NY go to anyone other than a Democrat. I'm anxious to see what the future holds :D
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Haha, Bill Clinton supposedly gave Kerry the "W" line in a long talk they had from Bill's hospital bed.

The democratic strategy went something close to this:
1) Build up Bush hate
2) Introduce Kerry @ DNC, to sound presidental
3) Use Debates to Attack Bush

people say that the DNC should have been used to attack Bush, and the debates for Kerry to sound presidental. (the reverse)

Either way it doesn't matter, the guy is a lemon - and his wife hasn't gotten him 1 vote - she's lost him quite a few.
The DNC had a bunch of yesterdays losers.
When you lose and your a democrat - you become a party hero.
Jimmy Carter, Al Gore. Please go away.

"People who don't think my husbands health care plan is good, are idiots" -- Theresa Heinz Kerry
Somebody tell me how that gains John Kerry a vote?
 
size said:
I think you give them too much credit. Is it not possible that simply USA citizens simply recognize that Kerry has little to no platform?

:frustrate :
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It's the combination of the two definitly.
And Kerry's Campaign fell apart because of the Swift Boat Vets - and how he handled that.
Rather than answering questions, or apoligizing for his remarks during Vietnam - he gets lawyers to try and intimidate the Swift Boat Vets.
What a f_cking disgrace.
He and media thought they could get 250 decorated vietnam heros simply go away by attacking their character. They thought the American people wouldn't care.
They were wrong.
 
And the latest:
Heinz-Kerry called her critics "Scumbags"

From the New Yorker:
Despite her linguistic prowess and her worldliness, Heinz Kerry has, at times, a deaf ear for the nuances of slang, code, condescension, and vulgarity in English—for the emotion of the language. “There are these bizarre moments that make you shudder,� the Kerry adviser said. “Like calling herself African-American to black audiences.� She dismissed voters skeptical of her husband’s health-care proposals as “idiots,� and, in a television interview with a Pittsburgh anchorwoman, employed the word “scumbags� to describe some of her detractors. I doubt that she knows the literal meaning of “scumbag,� but perhaps, after forty years in America, nearly thirty of them as a political wife, observing how the flaws and contradictions of a personality as complex as hers are melted down for ammunition by the other side, she should have learned it. Close friends attribute her lapses of discretion to “naïveté.� Heinz Kerry says that they are a form of resistance to enforced conformity. “I don’t like to be told, for told’s sake,� how to behave, she says, “because I lived in a dictatorship for too long.�
 
You know, I don't like Kerry. But honestly I see Bush as the end of life, freedom and civilization as we know it, so I'm forced to vote for Kerry. While many like Bush's economic policies, tax cuts, etc. There are 2 very key pieces of information that I think a lot of people either ignore or are not well informed enough about.

1) Bush's policy on stem cell research has already killed millions of people in the US alone. I can point to sets of studies in particular which couldn't get funding and thus couldn't be done that even if unsuccessful would have advanced research in their respect disease areas by leaps and bounds.

2) His foreign policy has resulted in the loss of all of our allies in Europe, has escalated the Middle East's hate for us, and put us in the position where we are now on the verge of being kicked out of the UN. For those who think this isn't important, I hope your happy when our service based economy put's us into near third-world status in 20 years time because of all the trade embargos against us. We no longer have a production based economy, and as a result, we are highly susceptible to embargoes and tariffs. We rely on trade for our wellbeing. Bush's horrible foreign policy is going to result in our alienation from the rest of the world.


Being in the pharmaceutical business, I know just how important point number 1 is. That alone is enough to make me want to elect someone else. But point number 2 isn't an issue of just saving lives that would die without help. Point number 2 is about turning america into a 3rd world cesspool. And remember, President Putin of Russia on Friday showed us how easy it is to lose your freedom.
 
Nullifidian said:
1) Bush's policy on stem cell research has already killed millions of people in the US alone. I can point to sets of studies in particular which couldn't get funding and thus couldn't be done that even if unsuccessful would have advanced research in their respect disease areas by leaps and bounds.
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I will not say you are wrong on this point but I think there is another side to the coin. (ignore religious implications)Many doctors do not believe that stem cell research is as valid as other believe. Consequently, saying it would have saved millions is simply not true.
Many studies can't get funding, this is simply the nature of research. Studies upon studies never get published or further work completed due to lack of funds.

However, if you work in the pharma industry than I am absolutely shocked that you would vote for Kerry. Economic indications(towards pharma industry) put forth by Kerry/Democrats could have devistating effects on the field and lead to a total overall of the industry. For instance, the amount of funds that could be allocated towards R/D would be reduced.
 
Nullifidian said:
You know, I don't like Kerry. But honestly I see Bush as the end of life, freedom and civilization as we know it, so I'm forced to vote for Kerry. While many like Bush's economic policies, tax cuts, etc. There are 2 very key pieces of information that I think a lot of people either ignore or are not well informed enough about.
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1) Bush's policy on stem cell research has already killed millions of people in the US alone. I can point to sets of studies in particular which couldn't get funding and thus couldn't be done that even if unsuccessful would have advanced research in their respect disease areas by leaps and bounds.[/quote] He hasn't been in office long enough to be responsible for deaths as a result of not funding stem-cell research.

While I don't believe in his interjecting his religious beliefs on his policies, I also don't believe that big daddy government is responsible for everything we do.

I.E. If there is enough vested interest in the research, which itself is not illegal, then private firms should pay for it to be done. We don't live in a socialist society and I'm proud of that fact. I enjoy capitalism.

However, I am sure that his lack of support hasn't helped the research in the least. (I support the research myself.)
2) His foreign policy has resulted in the loss of all of our allies in Europe, has escalated the Middle East's hate for us, and put us in the position where we are now on the verge of being kicked out of the UN.
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All of our allies in Europe, this I don't agree with 100%. Of whom do you speak, France and Germany? France is a lost cause. They wouldn't help us if their life depended on it. Kerry isn't going to get their help either, France declared over the weekend that no matter who's in office they will not help. Not to mention that there is very solid evidence that the french are a bunch of scum bags who were feeding the Iraqis weapons as we fought the war in Iraq in the first place. Germany isn't much better. You'll see a different tone when Angela Merkel enters office in 2006. Schroeder will not stay; he will be replaced by a much more conservative government who I can predict will be much more supportive of us. As far as being kicked out of the UN, the UN is corrupt as it is. What benifit do we have? Plus, who's going to kick us out? Palestine? France? Germany? Those are the only countries who would really want to. But Who the F*ck cares what they have to say. Thre is a whole big world out there who rely's on us economically to such a great extent that it would take a heck of a lot for them to piss us off beyond policy disagreements.
For those who think this isn't important, I hope your happy when our service based economy put's us into near third-world status in 20 years time because of all the trade embargos against us. We no longer have a production based economy, and as a result, we are highly susceptible to embargoes and tariffs. We rely on trade for our wellbeing. Bush's horrible foreign policy is going to result in our alienation from the rest of the world.
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I doubt that. Again the world relies very heavliy on us. France and Germany are in economic Peril. Russia is in a **** hole. Japan is still trying to recover from their depression. The UK won't abandon us. Japan is on our side. China can give a rats ass about anyone on gods green earth as long as they are doing OK. As long as they do business with America, they are OK. The world cannot afford to put embargo's on the US or to piss us off. If we go down the whole world goes down.

One of my theories about the US pushing for a global economy is because the more globalized our economy becomes the more stable it is and the more the world relies on us.
Being in the pharmaceutical business, I know just how important point number 1 is. That alone is enough to make me want to elect someone else. But point number 2 isn't an issue of just saving lives that would die without help. Point number 2 is about turning america into a 3rd world cesspool. And remember, President Putin of Russia on Friday showed us how easy it is to lose your freedom.
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Russia has only been out of it's communist state for 12 years. Even the youngest of adults remember communism and do not fear it. It can easily slip away from it's democratic efforts. That change, fi it were to happen in America, would have to be more gradual and IMHO is on it's way in the form of Socialism.

Again, I missed the middle east point, but I'll get back to it now. I don't know what channels you watched after 9/11, but I remember the middle easterners dancing and handing out candy in the streets as because of what happened. The last thing I'm worried about is making them like us more. Their whole problem lies in the overabundance of theocracies and dictatorships, hence Bush's pseudo-excuse for invading Iraq. Instill freedom in the area, hope it spreads. I'm not going to debate that issue no matter what you say, I don't feel like it...it always ends up people going in cicles.

I personally believe that people aren't much different (in the core) than they were during the paleolithic era 30K years ago. If you let someone dicatate what you do through any means (be it fear, economics, etc, etc.) you will be walked all over. That's just the way humans are. I may not be happy about the way things are going in Iraq, but I am more than happy about the way the US is handling the UN. The UN is great concept, but it's corrupt for now. One day it will be great so long as we don't establis the UN as a state and keep it the way it was intended. If we let them dictate our actions, we would just become an appendage of the UN.
 
When was the last time France or Germany won a war
 
Well, last I checked, we had to save France's ass from Germany so technically, they both lost and we won :)

More importantly, when is the last time that either France or Germany did A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G to help anybody else out, period?

You can say well in the UN they....uh, nothing. But the UN does, uh....well, they give POS tents to a people whom are at the recieving end of nothing but a religious inspired, ethnic cleansing and genocide. Well, the UN does...uh...nothing. Whoever thinks that maybe the US should head in there and bomb the hell out of the Sudanese government, but believes that the US is repsonsible for the Arab-Muslim hatred toward us and the mass existance of radicalism within the religion should really keep their opinions to themselves because they are the ones we would be crucified by for striking a government that was not a direct and immenent threat. Not to mention that every terrorist effort thereafter would probably be blamed on that incident. And all for what? To save 10's of thousands of Black Africans each month? Who really cares, right? I do, and it pisses me off that all I ever hear about is Abu Grahib and the two candidates military record when there are REAL problems in the world, like the incident in Russia that recieved hardly any coverage or like the Islamofacist inspired genocide in the Darfur region of Sudan.

Then you've got these french and german assholes lead governments all but claiming we're the devil and we have no right to interject ourselves on anyone in the world. We're the cause of all the hate, etc, etc, etc. But again I ask you, what have they done for anyone? Grrr....damnit, I left my political forum for a reason, to enjoy good 'ol bodybuilding and I can't seem to escape it no matter where I go!! :( lol
 
This is off topic but here is a recent article on NeoNazi in Germany:
Article below :hammer:
 
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size said:
This is off topic but here is a recent article on NeoNazi in Germany:
Invalid Link Removed
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weird, its asking for a password: I'll post the story via drudge:

Neo-Nazi surge in German poll awakens bitter memories

Date: September 21 2004

By Philip Blenkinsop in Dresden

The far right has made startling gains in regional elections in Germany as former communists made advances around Berlin, but parties of the centre clung to power with reduced support.

The anti-immigrant Nationalist Democratic Party (NPD) won 9 per cent of the vote in Saxony, almost equal to the vote for the Social Democrats of the Chancellor, Gerhard Schroder.

The Party of Democratic Socialism (PDS) took 28 per cent of the vote in Brandenburg, its best ever showing in a state election. Eastern German resentment at high unemployment and welfare cuts undermined support for Mr Schroder's Social Democratic Party (SPD) and the main opposition Christian Democratic Union (CDU).

Whereas the CDU has profited from past discontent with Mr Schroder, it too was punished this time for its support for pro-business reforms. The CDU lost its absolute majority in industrialised Saxony.

The gains by the NPD, which had been semi-extinct since its heyday in West Germany 36 years ago, shocked Paul Spiegel, president of Germany's National Council of Jews, who said it was a symptom of the failures of mainstream politicians.

"Memories of the end of the Weimar Republic are awakened," Mr Spiegel said.

"A party that makes anti-Semitic and xenophobic propaganda doesn't belong in any parliament."

It was the first time the NPD had gained seats in a German state parliament since its heyday in 1968, when it was briefly represented in seven state parliaments before a decline set in.

In Brandenburg, support for another right-wing group, the German People's Union (DVU), was stable at 6 per cent. The DVU and NPD had made a territorial pact to avoid splitting the far-right vote, since a party cannot gain seats unless it wins at least 5 per cent support.

In Brandenburg, a constituency composed of the outer suburbs and rural environs of Berlin, the main shift was to the left rather than the right, with PDS support advancing by 5 per cent.

The former communists, who have overcome pariah status to enter coalitions elsewhere in Germany with the SPD, also secured a stable 23 per cent in Saxony, but have no chance of being invited to join a CDU-led government.

Federally the vote will make little difference to Mr Schroder's tenuous hold on power. His government's legislation is often blocked by the CDU-dominated upper house, the Bundesrat.

DPA, Reuters
 
Saying he hasn't killed anyone through his lack of support for stem cell research is being very shortsighted. The people he has killed aren't dead yet, but they will be. He has already resulted in 4 years of no subsidized funding. 2 of the areas that are in most need of EMBRYONIC stem cell research in particular are parkinson's disease and diabetes. When they do finally find a treatment that is successful, you can be assured that had Bush supported it, we would have found it 4 years earlier (or 8 years if he gets re-elected). So, all the people that died of the disease in those extra 4 (or 8) years that could have been treated may as well have been killed by Bush directly. Because it is HIS doing and his alone that has pulled the funding.


As for UK not abandoning us, you've got to be totally clueless of British public opinion to say that. The British HATE Tony Blair. He won't be re-elected; there's simply no chance seeing as how he has a public approval rating of about 10%. The people will demand a prime minister who is most decidedly anti-US, since that's what the people are crying for at this point. They don't want to be in Iraq, they never wanted to be in Iraq, and they hate Blair for putting them there.

Europe hates us. My father owns a large Hungarian silverware distributor and he does business all throughout eastern europe. He vacations in France, Spain, and Italy, and his father lives in Italy and has a business that deals mostly with western European clients. Every last person they know and have done business with HATES the USA. There is overwhelming disdain for our country in the rest of the world, not just the middle east. And the reason they all say they hate us is because of "our arogance in ignoring the ruling of the UN, and for our constant meddling in other countries' affairs." You know what the world really wants? They want us to butt the #### out of their business. They DO NOT want us to send foreign aid to countries. They don't want us to send troops anywhere. They are sick of us trying to police them when they just want to police themselves.


The thing is, there is no point ever in arguing politics with anyone. People have their minds made up, and there is no way you will ever change their opinion. That's why political discussions are always so heated, because no one will ever compromise.
 
2) His foreign policy has resulted in the loss of all of our allies in Europe, has escalated the Middle East's hate for us, and put us in the position where we are now on the verge of being kicked out of the UN. For those who think this isn't important, I hope your happy when our service based economy put's us into near third-world status in 20 years time because of all the trade embargos against us. We no longer have a production based economy, and as a result, we are highly susceptible to embargoes and tariffs. We rely on trade for our wellbeing. Bush's horrible foreign policy is going to result in our alienation from the rest of the world.
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Nice spin but you are forgetting the Un oil for food scandal. The UN, France, Germany and Russia were all getting paid off by Sadam. There have been several book come out about rampant corruption in the UN as well. Lets not also forget that we wouldn't not be in Iraq right now if the UN enforced their own resolutions. Sadam was in violation of them for years and they did absolutely nothing about it.
As for UK not abandoning us, you've got to be totally clueless of British public opinion to say that. The British HATE Tony Blair. He won't be re-elected; there's simply no chance seeing as how he has a public approval rating of about 10%. The people will demand a prime minister who is most decidedly anti-US, since that's what the people are crying for at this point. They don't want to be in Iraq, they never wanted to be in Iraq, and they hate Blair for putting them there.

Europe hates us. My father owns a large Hungarian silverware distributor and he does business all throughout eastern europe. He vacations in France, Spain, and Italy, and his father lives in Italy and has a business that deals mostly with western European clients. Every last person they know and have done business with HATES the USA. There is overwhelming disdain for our country in the rest of the world, not just the middle east. And the reason they all say they hate us is because of "our arogance in ignoring the ruling of the UN, and for our constant meddling in other countries' affairs." You know what the world really wants? They want us to butt the #### out of their business. They DO NOT want us to send foreign aid to countries. They don't want us to send troops anywhere. They are sick of us trying to police them when they just want to police themselves.
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Who cares that the rest of the world hates us? This mindless mantra of what would Europe do is asinine. Europe cares about European interest not American. America is a constructional republic. That means the constitution is the law of the land not the UN and not what ever the opinion of a bunch socialist nations is. What this boils down to is whether or not you believe American is a sovereign nation and has the right to defend it's self with out asking permission. I believe we do. It's obvious what you believe. The problem is that putting the United States under Foreign control is unconstitutional. If you think the UN is the greatest thing since sliced bred and value the opinions of Europeans so much why don't you move there instead of turning the USA into France?
 
As for stem cell research I don't believe that the US tax payers should be forced to pay for research that they don't agree with. If you look at all of the great inventions over the years they have been done in the private sector not with government money and that's were it belongs. All Government does is waste money, create bureaucracy, and mess up everything it touches.
 
What an incredibly dumb thing to say. I'd like you to repeat that statement when the world declares war on us.
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The ridiculous thing that was said was that it's apparently that you believe that the united states should be under the control of the UN. That in and of it's self is unconstitutional. Do you really believe a bunch of bureaucratic socialist are going to declare war on us? They can't even enforce their own resolutions but they are going to declare war on the United States? Here is another question for you.. Where do you think the UN gets most of it's money and what would happen to the UN if we cut off all funding to them? What you have just suggested is equivalent the UN biting the hand that feeds them. Who made the dumb statement? You are right we should not only let France tell us what do but we should be scared of them too.
 
The job of the president of the United States is a protect and defend the people of the United States. We can't worry about everyone elses interests in matters of life and death.
Terrorists are beheading innocent people, murdering children (250 in Russia).
France could care less.
After all, FRance is now 39% Muslim.

Who cares if the world hates us? Well we may get trouble down the road.
But Who cares if France hates us? Not I.
I say let the cowardly immigration policies in France eat them alive. Soon the French people will feel terror in their home. Al-queda would LOVE a harbor in Europe. The french will no longer be welcome in Paris - and they'll ask out to bail them out again. again. again.
 
Europe is not so dependant on the US as you'd love to think. Every European nation has been selling its dollars over the past years in exchange for Euros. That's why the Euro was skyrocketing for a while and the dollar's value sunk into the toilet. Our control over Europe only extends as far as how many dollars they hold. The less of our currency they have, the less they rely on our economy, and the less they have to worry about what happens to us. When they no longer hold any dollars that are of consequence, they will stop caring about our opinion altogether. How much can an economy prosper when they don't do business outside their own borders?
 
Nullifidian said:
Saying he hasn't killed anyone through his lack of support for stem cell research is being very shortsighted. The people he has killed aren't dead yet, but they will be. He has already resulted in 4 years of no subsidized funding. 2 of the areas that are in most need of EMBRYONIC stem cell research in particular are parkinson's disease and diabetes. When they do finally find a treatment that is successful, you can be assured that had Bush supported it, we would have found it 4 years earlier (or 8 years if he gets re-elected). So, all the people that died of the disease in those extra 4 (or 8) years that could have been treated may as well have been killed by Bush directly. Because it is HIS doing and his alone that has pulled the funding.
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Pulled what funding? He's the first president to ever fund stem cell research; he just did not fund the embryonic kind in the first place.

Your math on the dead people, more specifically, the people who may die in the 4 year course due to lack of funding is correct and I agree. But, I just disagree that it's his duty and the American taxpayer's duty to fund ESCR. Do I think he should, yes I'd like to see it, do I think it's his duty, no.

As for UK not abandoning us, you've got to be totally clueless of British public opinion to say that. The British HATE Tony Blair. He won't be re-elected; there's simply no chance seeing as how he has a public approval rating of about 10%. The people will demand a prime minister who is most decidedly anti-US, since that's what the people are crying for at this point. They don't want to be in Iraq, they never wanted to be in Iraq, and they hate Blair for putting them there.
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I'm fully aware of the facist media in the UK. It's much the same in all of the western world. We, in the US, are starting to see somewhat of a media revolution ATM, but the rest of the world, as always, is behind us.

10%, please...he may not be the favorite, but try 41% (Invalid Link Removed)

Just do the research.

I'm not in agreement with Bush's policy, but you said that he's already killed millions of people. that's just not true.

Europe hates us. My father owns a large Hungarian silverware distributor and he does business all throughout eastern europe. He vacations in France, Spain, and Italy, and his father lives in Italy and has a business that deals mostly with western European clients. Every last person they know and have done business with HATES the USA. There is overwhelming disdain for our country in the rest of the world, not just the middle east. And the reason they all say they hate us is because of "our arogance in ignoring the ruling of the UN,
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He, he, he. I think you need to know what the UN is comprimised of, which is what most people are clueless about, before you come to the same conclusion they have.
and for our constant meddling in other countries' affairs." You know what the world really wants? They want us to butt the #### out of their business. They DO NOT want us to send foreign aid to countries. They don't want us to send troops anywhere. They are sick of us trying to police them when they just want to police themselves.
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I think we should stay the hell out, too. I can give a rats ass about them. I think the only time we should leave the country is to blow someone else up. But, the same idiots who yell at us for doing those things also yell at us for NOT doing enough. Does Bosnia ring a bell? They sure never seemed to want us to pull out of there....
The thing is, there is no point ever in arguing politics with anyone. People have their minds made up, and there is no way you will ever change their opinion. That's why political discussions are always so heated, because no one will ever compromise.
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With this I can happily agree with you :) We are who we are, so I'll end the debate in a wonderful oxymoron, we'll agree to disagree :D
 
I agree with the general concensus here that the US is headed for some dismal times in terms of economic stability and personal freedoms. That's obvious. How do any of you suggest we fix it, other than a complete and total political overhaul?

IMO, the Dems and Reps are/have ruined this country. They're more concerned with their special interest groups and personal agenda then actually taking care of the country itself. Both parties have to go. For the same reasons that a president can only hold office for 2 terms - the same political parties shouldnt be allowed to express their power in government as long as they have been.

Most people who want to see a change arent in the voting booths. Im a hippocrate myself - Ive never voted and yet I disagree with a lot of what's going on with our country. Rather than cast my vote, Ive taken the 'What's the point?' attitude while this great nation slowly burns around me. I think too many people do the same thing.

BV
 
Blow Najaf off the map.
This is enough.
Americans are dying because we have to fight a 'humane' war for the liberals while innocent civilians are being beheaded
 
Jesus Christ Ive been away for a few days and didnt even realize that had happened.

I agree. Send a really strong f*cking message and keep sending it until the bullshit stops. When they realize that their whole civilization will be annihilated, this global nightmare will be resolved.

BV
 
our president has been weakened too much by the liberals. we must fight a humane war, even though our innocents citizens are being slaughtered.
Iran is laughing
France is laughing
 
haha I did listen tonight
I tried calling too
The best is when he was screaming and the Star Spangled Banner was playing
I dont agree with everything he says, but hes right on this one.
 
Europe is not so dependant on the US as you'd love to think. Every European nation has been selling its dollars over the past years in exchange for Euros. That's why the Euro was skyrocketing for a while and the dollar's value sunk into the toilet. Our control over Europe only extends as far as how many dollars they hold. The less of our currency they have, the less they rely on our economy, and the less they have to worry about what happens to us. When they no longer hold any dollars that are of consequence, they will stop caring about our opinion altogether. How much can an economy prosper when they don't do business outside their own borders?
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I didn't say Europe was dependant on us. What I said is that the UN is. Look up how much the United States contributes to the UN's budget. We pay more than any country and several countries combined in some cases and for the most part they are all against us. I am for cutting all funding to the UN. Your other comments about the economy going into the shitter if we got cut off from Europe is just globalist propaganda. We are hurting our economy by out sourcing. Our current economic policy is hurting the US economy for the sake of globalism. We have basically exported our manufacturing base and are now starting to export high tech jobs. That's why tariffs were created. If nike wants to make all it's shoes and clothes in china paying their workers 5 cents a day, you make the tariffs too high to import them. Then they will be better off moving back over to the US. This keeps jobs and money in the United States economy.This makes the US self sufficient and not needing Europe or caring what they think.
Your whole theory on Europe is based on the mob rules mentality. If everyone thinks a certain way then they must be right. If Europe wants to drink poison Kool aide or jump off a bridge would you too? Sorry but just because more people might think a certain way doesn't make them right. At one point all of Europe thought that the world was flat. Even though most of Europe had that opinion..........guess what...............they were still wrong. Didn't your parents teach you that if everyone jumps off a bridge lesson? If you think it's so great over there why are you living here? Gas is at least 5 dollars a gallon in england and taxes are 50 percent. What a great place to live.
 
BigVrunga said:
I agree with the general concensus here that the US is headed for some dismal times in terms of economic stability and personal freedoms. That's obvious. How do any of you suggest we fix it, other than a complete and total political overhaul?
BV
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This is not completely true. However, to go into detail is rather pointless. This is not intended to sound rude but the vast majority simply does not understand economics(ask a person what a supply&demand curve look like) and this includes politicians. Understandably so, it is not worth their time.
Here are few ideas: increase capital investment, decrease fiscal spending, lower taxes to stimulate growth(or a flat tax with a VAT), eliminate taxes on lower income individual, cut public works programs, aggressive monetary approach to inflation etc.
 
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Regarding my point about him killing millions of people. I thought I made that clear that they aren't dead yet, but they have been given a death sentence because the treatment that could have saved them will arrive 4 years after it will do them any good.

First off, understand that researchers are finding more and more that embryonic stem cells are the only valid stem cells for the treatment of certain diseases. Diabetes is one such disease. The only other candidate was pancreatic stem cells but a recent study showed that they are worthless for the generating the necessary insulin creating cells. Only embryonic stem cells can do that, but they are struggling to get enough stem cells. Why? Because of Bush there simply aren't enough available. We are on the verge of a medical science breakthrough. A disease plaguing millions and millions of Americans might very well be cured. But without the embryonic stem cells needed, the research can't be done.

So, in this one example, take the date at which they find the cure and count up all the people that died of diabetes and complications from diabetes for the 4 years leading up to that date. Bush will have killed those people all because of his twisted Christian fundamentalist, archaic, pro-life views and his inability to seperate church and state.
 
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