EC questions + non stim pump preworkout

[Beta]

Started an EC+DCP stack about 4 weeks ago.

1) I'm interested in trying out a non-stim, pump pre and was looking at Performax VasoMax. I am under the impression that E is a vasoconstrictor so I was wondering whether it would be safe to combine it with a pump/vasodilating product or whether there would be any health or efficacy concerns.

2) Also looking for any tips on maximizing the EC stack. I was thinking of doing IF along with it but not sure whether I should work out fasted or not. Last but not least, would it be bad to combine EC+ Alpha Y (OL rauwolscine)?

Thanks.

 

[john.patterson]

Ephedrine and caffeine are both vasoconstrictors, but adding in a non-stim pump product like Vasomax would still be beneficial for increasing blood flow and getting a better pump. You will probably experience better pumps and more vascularity if you try Vasomax without EC, but it still serves its purpose and works well. There shouldn't be any health concerns with stacking these.

Some people will say that it's optimal to dose EC as far away from food as possible. I think that it's best to take on an empty stomach if you can, but it doesn't diminish its effects too significantly if you take it around a meal. I would experiment with IF and see how you like it. I've done IF in the past, mainly due to my schedule, and adapted to fasted training. It's all personal preference, but I would focus much more on calories per day and less on meal timing. At the end of the day, if you're eating in a deficit and training hard with some added help from EC, the results will come.

As far as adding in Alpha-y or yohimbine, I would use EC by itself for at least a few weeks first before introducing yohimbine. The EC-Y stack is very popular, but also very potent. If you do decide to add in yohimbine, start with a very low dose and work your way up. Yohimbine should always be used in a fasted state if possible to maximize it's effects. Alpha-y might also be a better option over y-hcl - I've always noticed less side effects with alpha-y

 

[Beta]

Ephedrine and caffeine are both vasoconstrictors, but adding in a non-stim pump product like Vasomax would still be beneficial for increasing blood flow and getting a better pump. You will probably experience better pumps and more vascularity if you try Vasomax without EC, but it still serves its purpose and works well. There shouldn't be any health concerns with stacking these.

Some people will say that it's optimal to dose EC as far away from food as possible. I think that it's best to take on an empty stomach if you can, but it doesn't diminish its effects too significantly if you take it around a meal. I would experiment with IF and see how you like it. I've done IF in the past, mainly due to my schedule, and adapted to fasted training. It's all personal preference, but I would focus much more on calories per day and less on meal timing. At the end of the day, if you're eating in a deficit and training hard with some added help from EC, the results will come.

As far as adding in Alpha-y or yohimbine, I would use EC by itself for at least a few weeks first before introducing yohimbine. The EC-Y stack is very popular, but also very potent. If you do decide to add in yohimbine, start with a very low dose and work your way up. Yohimbine should always be used in a fasted state if possible to maximize it's effects. Alpha-y might also be a better option over y-hcl - I've always noticed less side effects with alpha-y

Thanks so much! Learned a lot. Do you know if there's any scientific reason to be concerned or hesitant about training fasted (lifting, not cardio) while also at a deficit/+EC? And what is the average length that one should run EC?

 

[john.patterson]

Thanks so much! Learned a lot. Do you know if there's any scientific reason to be concerned or hesitant about training fasted while also at a deficit/+EC

You're welcome! From what I've read and seen in my own experience, you might not feel as strong if you train fasted while dieting. Endurance and overall performance may take a small drop also, but once you've adapted to training fasted it shouldn't be an issue. As long as you are consuming an adequate amount of calories throughout the rest of the day, fasted training shouldn't be a problem.

I've been training fasted first thing in the morning for years, and I've never noticed anything that has impaired my progress in bulking or cutting. Total calorie intake will play a much more significant role than meal timing and training timing. If anything, fasted training with EC may improve fatloss

 

[Piledahlaren]

big fan of Controlled Labs White Flood, only 3 ingredients but fully dosed!

 

[MidwestBeast]

OP -- I train fasted (with BCAA's, though) now and absolutely love it.

I've been training since age 14 for baseball in HS and then kept weight-training and got more seriously into it once I got to college and was done with baseball. I would lift in the mornings on occasion, but generally preferred lifting in afternoons having already eaten. However, as long as I eat enough the night before, I don't feel weak at all. I can go in at 5 AM and actually, yesterday jumped 5 lbs. up to 485x6 on my last set of rack pulls for heavy back day and hadn't eaten since 9 PM the night before (and that was just a whey isolate shake; I hadn't eaten anything else since about 6 PM that evening).

So it's all about what you're used to. Transitioning into that if you choose to do IF will be the biggest thing. For me, the first 2 weeks of starting IF were the worst just because my body was trained to eat, so it was dealing with the initial hunger; but then I got used to it and I can easily go 24 hours (though I don't lol) without eating and being bothered by it.

Additionally, I use 25mg E with a lot of my pre-workouts (if they don't have 1,3 or something stronger than caffeine) and it's not negatively impacted me at all.

Good luck!

 

[Beta]

Great information. Much appreciated everyone.