EAAs over BCAAs?

muscleupcrohn said:
I haven't actually done thorough enough testing, for long enough, with as few variables as possible, to say that there is or isn't a difference. I personally think that the potential benefit, which may be hard to actually notice, but could still in theory have some effects over time, is worth a bit more money. That's an individual decision though.
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yeah it is, I'm 33 and haven't noticed a difference, have no plans of stepping on stage and obviously not playing any sports at my age.....so the benefits I see from intraworkout aren't worth the money if I can get what I feel are the same results from the less expensive option
 
Young Gotti said:
don't really see a need for it.....not saying I don't get it from my diet...but if I'm reaching for a protein powder, casein isn't something I'm looking for
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to each his own, research really doesn't support it, but we are different and its the best way to get a steady flow of AA and it won't interfere with whey digestion.

definitely underrated, over looked protein source...
 
USPlabsRep said:
to each his own, research really doesn't support it, but we are different and its the best way to get a steady flow of AA and it won't interfere with whey digestion.

definitely underrated, over looked protein source...
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yeah but the research I've seen doesn't seem to ever mention whole food into the equation and meal times when discussing the benefits....so I don't think the research is all that complete, it leaves a lot to be desired

if I'm on schedule with my meals and maximizing protein synthesis with each one...I don't see how a slow digesting protein is beneficial in the equation and even potentially worse when we talk about the refractory periods in order to maximize protein synthesis again
 
Honestly when it comes to whey vs casein, for me it comes down to mix-ability and whether or not my stomach can handle it every single day. Casein just takes too much liquid to solubilize vs whey and is usually twice the price. So while casein can be very beneficial and better than whey I don’t see the differences in results being different enough to justify it
 
bigdavid said:
Honestly when it comes to whey vs casein, for me it comes down to mix-ability and whether or not my stomach can handle it every single day. Casein just takes too much liquid to solubilize vs whey and is usually twice the price. So while casein can be very beneficial and better than whey I don’t see the differences in results being different enough to justify it
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ModernProtein mixes well and tastes great and competitively priced. you get best of both worlds whey and casein...

I use casein before bed and make it into a fudge like consistency and eat it...its also my flavor system and tastes amazing...

there is some great great research on casein used before bed that once people find out, it will be a no brainer
 
USPlabsRep said:
ModernProtein mixes well and tastes great and competitively priced. you get best of both worlds whey and casein...

I use casein before bed and make it into a fudge like consistency and eat it...its also my flavor system and tastes amazing...

there is some great great research on casein used before bed that once people find out, it will be a no brainer
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I know all about the research on casein before bed. The problem is if I drink a shake right before bed I have a horrible nights sleep and usually have to use the restroom once or twice. So I stopped that deal many years ago and I’m better off for it.

I do get plenty of casein in my diet since I drink milk in pretty descent quantities. Probably have at least half a gallon a day if not more. The benefits of not being lactose intolerant. So 16 oz milk with a scoop or two of whey is as good as any blend out there.
 
bigdavid said:
I know all about the research on casein before bed. The problem is if I drink a shake right before bed I have a horrible nights sleep and usually have to use the restroom once or twice. So I stopped that deal many years ago and I’m better off for it.

I do get plenty of casein in my diet since I drink milk in pretty descent quantities. Probably have at least half a gallon a day if not more. The benefits of not being lactose intolerant. So 16 oz milk with a scoop or two of whey is as good as any blend out there.
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strange you can drink Milk which is 80% casein. I agree on Milk. We use Milk protein isolate which is comprised off casein and whey.
 
I’ve been following this tread since The Solution bumped it a few days ago. I’d read majority of the studies over the last two years so it was a good refresher, but I’m a bit of an outlier when it comes to training. I train fasted in the early morning. Typically take 6g 4:1:1 BCAAs. 1g glutamine alphaketogluterate. And 3g beta alanine. 200mg caffeine preworkout. I was taking 10g EAA about 2years ago pre, when I initially read the comparison study, but I went back to the BCAAs because the EAAs would make me drag during my workouts and churned my stomach.

Since this thread has focused on fed state, I want to pick some of your brains on EAAs vs BCAAs and muscle preservation while in a fasted state. The studies show that BCAAs prevent MPB (muscle protien breakdown) during exercise, and that it’s likely attributed to leucine, but there haven’t been any studies on how they also effect MPB post work out. With that in mind and in the case of a 12-16hr fasted state, do you think that 4:1:1 BCAAs are more beneficial then EAAs in this particulate case?
 
CarneyFolk said:
I’ve been following this tread since The Solution bumped it a few days ago. I’d read majority of the studies over the last two years so it was a good refresher, but I’m a bit of an outlier when it comes to training. I train fasted in the early morning. Typically take 6g 4:1:1 BCAAs. 1g glutamine alphaketogluterate. And 3g beta alanine. 200mg caffeine preworkout. I was taking 10g EAA about 2years ago pre, when I initially read the comparison study, but I went back to the BCAAs because the EAAs would make me drag during my workouts and churned my stomach.

Since this thread has focused on fed state, I want to pick some of your brains on EAAs vs BCAAs and muscle preservation while in a fasted state. The studies show that BCAAs prevent MPB (muscle protien breakdown) during exercise, and that it’s likely attributed to leucine, but there haven’t been any studies on how they also effect MPB post work out. With that in mind and in the case of a 12-16hr fasted state, do you think that 4:1:1 BCAAs are more beneficial then EAAs in this particulate case?
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It may not be exactly what you are looking for, but the last study I referenced and linked to is a good start, and did actually use the amino acids in a fasted state, taken peri/intra-workout, and measured various things at various times post-workout. I'd recommend reading the full text and discussion if you have access to it, not just the abstract, as the discussion helps explain some things and some potential explanations for the results of the study. TL;DR, I do not believe that BCAAs would be more effective at decreasing MPB than EAAs. Am I 100% sure? Not 100%, no.
 
CarneyFolk said:
I’ve been following this tread since The Solution bumped it a few days ago. I’d read majority of the studies over the last two years so it was a good refresher, but I’m a bit of an outlier when it comes to training. I train fasted in the early morning. Typically take 6g 4:1:1 BCAAs. 1g glutamine alphaketogluterate. And 3g beta alanine. 200mg caffeine preworkout. I was taking 10g EAA about 2years ago pre, when I initially read the comparison study, but I went back to the BCAAs because the EAAs would make me drag during my workouts and churned my stomach.

Since this thread has focused on fed state, I want to pick some of your brains on EAAs vs BCAAs and muscle preservation while in a fasted state. The studies show that BCAAs prevent MPB (muscle protien breakdown) during exercise, and that it’s likely attributed to leucine, but there haven’t been any studies on how they also effect MPB post work out. With that in mind and in the case of a 12-16hr fasted state, do you think that 4:1:1 BCAAs are more beneficial then EAAs in this particulate case?
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what is your goal while in the fasted state?
 
Aren’t a good amount of the studies on BCAAs with subjects that are forced to fast for 12-18 hrs? I think I remember reading that in the methods for some of them
 
USPlabsRep said:
what is your goal while in the fasted state?
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I was a trail runner until I moved to the city. Streets, sidewalks, and cars took all the fun out of what I used to enjoy. So I’ve taken up street workouts/ calisthenics.

I warmup with a 1mile run and then 90min of calisthenics 4-5x a week. I’ve become addicted to the program I use, called ThenX. (Phenomenal app with daily updates) To give you an idea, last week my pull workout was 300 strict pull up variations (wide/shoulder/narrow, comado, chin up, archer, 1arm assisted, etc) and 135 Australian pull ups. My goals are to improve my strength to weight ratio so I can continue to progress. Shoulder capsule strength needs improvement.

If your asking why I train fasted, it’s because I wake up at 6am, and don’t like anything in my stomach. Additionally, I’ve found fasted training to be more forgiving when your diet is not in check; and more importantly, I have extra energy throughout the rest of the day.


I found a study from 2010 that basically shows you can eat +30% cals over maintenance for 6 weeks and gain less then 1lb fat. My recommendation to you all, would be train fasted the morning after your holiday parties. Lol.

Fasted training increases insulin sensitivity and glycogen stores. I see value in it for a healthier life style. But I’m looking at BCAAs and EEAs because I want to prevent MPB and create optimal recovery post workout to have a better next workout.
 
CarneyFolk said:
I was a trail runner until I moved to the city. Streets, sidewalks, and cars took all the fun out of what I used to enjoy. So I’ve taken up street workouts/ calisthenics.

I warmup with a 1mile run and then 90min of calisthenics 4-5x a week. I’ve become addicted to the program I use, called ThenX. (Phenomenal app with daily updates) To give you an idea, last week my pull workout was 300 strict pull up variations (wide/shoulder/narrow, comado, chin up, archer, 1arm assisted, etc) and 135 Australian pull ups. My goals are to improve my strength to weight ratio so I can continue to progress. Shoulder capsule strength needs improvement.

If your asking why I train fasted, it’s because I wake up at 6am, and don’t like anything in my stomach. Additionally, I’ve found fasted training to be more forgiving when your diet is not in check; and more importantly, I have extra energy throughout the rest of the day.


I found a study from 2010 that basically shows you can eat +30% cals over maintenance for 6 weeks and gain less then 1lb fat. My recommendation to you all, would be train fasted the morning after your holiday parties. Lol.

Fasted training increases insulin sensitivity and glycogen stores. I see value in it for a healthier life style. But I’m looking at BCAAs and EEAs because I want to prevent MPB and create optimal recovery post workout to have a better next workout.
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HMB may be worth looking into as well, as it is anti-catabolic, and has been shown to help with recovery and progress during times of overreaching.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
This. Well put. Anti-catabolic =/= anabolic, and the use of one is not inherently the same as the other.
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That's true. I have some HMB that I use. Got it from a sale real cheap. But wouldn't buy otherwise as I don't think the effect justifies the cost.
 
bosskardo said:
That's true. I have some HMB that I use. Got it from a sale real cheap. But wouldn't buy otherwise as I don't think the effect justifies the cost.
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You can find bulk HMB powder for something like $50/year. It's not FA, but I don't think the price for FA is worth it really. Even the "old" HMB has some promising research, and appears to be a generally healthy thing to take.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
You can find bulk HMB powder for something like $50/year. It's not FA, but I don't think the price for FA is worth it really. Even the "old" HMB has some promising research, and appears to be a generally healthy thing to take.
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Did some digging. Appreciate your input. Leucine only converts to HMB at a 5% rate. So considering what it does and my training style I think it would be ideal to add to my BCAAs pre and post workout.

In bulk HMB is $47 for 1KG. At 3g a day ($0.12), sounds like a minimal investment.

I pay $64 for 1KG of 4:1:1 BCAAs and use 10g a day. Or $0.64

I don’t let my supplements dictate my day or my schedule. So here’s the question, the studies talk about taking HMB 2-4x a day at 1-1.5g per serving. Because of the style of my workouts, would 3g pre be optimal, or 1.5g pre and 1.5g post?
 
I’d vote for all Pre. Your post workout nutrition should switch your metabolism more towards anabolism. The anticatabolic effect ideally needs to be during the workout. If you were dieting/cutting, you’d want that effect all day. But you only need it since you’re fasting for your workouts and just Pre should do the trick
 
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