Downsides To Finasteride

[supersoldier]

Finasteride, from what I understand is a DHT inhibitor/blocker. I have a bottle of Letro/Finasteride combo from Lion, and being on enough M1T to kill a fairly large horse, and enough 4AD-cyp to give a parapalegic man a hard-on, I'd still like to see my abs. The bloat just hit me, and it's unreal.

Now first things first, I'm a big fan of DHT. And I can deal with the sides like acne and oily skin, and I get no hair-loss.

So if I use 5 squirts EOD, that'll be 1.25mg Letro and 2.5mg Finasteride. I know that inhibiting aromatase that much will hinder my gains, especially strength, by itself.

So what role would the finasteride play in all this? Would my strength be greatly reduced because of lack of DHT? Or maybe my testosterone would go up because of less test converting to DHT? Hmmm... :think:

Anybody?

 

[DR.D]

Don't worry SS, finasteride only inhibits 5a-reductase activity, it doesn't actually block or antagonize DHT. So, unless your using test, on paper it might actually help if your taking and exogenous DHT. But why so much letro? I use one squirt/day and my nips don't even itch on big doses of test. People use too much letro, it only takes 1/5 or even less in my experiece. If you still bloat even at 1.25, cut the dose and just start w/ the furosemide@20mg BID. On weekends, or when your close enough to the bathroom to go every 30min :run: , double up on the dose. After a few days, you can maintain w/ EOD. Make sure to sup w/ potassium though and keep drinking! Have you confirmed your previous M1T labs w/ any follow ups? I'm still hoping it was a fluke, cause I love it!

 

[bioman]

I'll be watching those M1T results myself trying to decide whether or not I'll cycle it more than 1-2 times per year. I'm mostly scared of the lipid value issues. Don't want to screw up my heart or arteries.

 

[Jarconis]

I love my propecia

 

[supersoldier]

Have you confirmed your previous M1T labs w/ any follow ups? I'm still hoping it was a fluke, cause I love it!

I've ran countless labs whilst on M1T. No doubt it's some scary stuff. I'll run some more sometime this week, I haven't ran any in a while now. I'm also very curious as to how high my testosterone and estradiol are now, using 2100mg/week of Sldges latest batch of 4AD-cyp. I'll see what I can do. Judging by the way that I look just in the past couple days to a week, I'd say that my test, estradiol, and progesterone are very high. And my liver enzymes, well... :hammer: I'll run the labs, then start using the letro/finasteride EOD and run some more.

 

[DR.D]

That sounds great SS, thanks for all the good data! I might just have to slip on down to El Paso one day soon and take you out to my favorite all girls nude mud wrestlin' bar, just on the other side, and buy you a couple tequilla rose shots! :drunk:

 

[supersoldier]

That sounds great SS, thanks for all the good data! I might just have to slip on down to El Paso one day soon and take you out to my favorite all girls nude mud wrestlin' bar, just on the other side, and buy you a couple tequilla rose shots! :drunk:

Any time bro! :cheers:

 

[supersoldier]

As promised...

*I am not giving anybody advice on dosages or stacks*

4AD-cyp 2100mg/week for 3 weeks today, frontloaded 1200mg day 1. M1T 40-60mg/day for about 2 weeks now. I used Tri-Max for the first 9 days while starting the M1T. M5AA about 100mg/day.

Testosterone 954 ng/dl; Estradiol 128 pg/ml (where'd my abs go? :think: ); Progesterone 1.46 ng/ml; Prolactin 11.28 ng/ml; Cortisol 8.64 ug/dl; PSA 1.02

AST 115; ALT 178; LDH 283; (these 3 aren't nearly as bad as they were when I stacked M1,4 ADD 100mg with about the same amount of M1T, which points to M1,4ADD being much more toxic than M5AA at the same dosages.)

TBIL 0.7; DBIL 0.1; ALP 77; GGT 13; AMY 94; Cholesterol 104; HDL 14.2

Glucose 91, blood was drawn about an hour after eating 1 cup oats (before cooking) with a protein shake, I did not train today for the first time in 5 days (4 Days On). It's usually a lot lower when I test while on M1T, but blood is usually drawn about the same time after eating, only I would have trained about an hour before that meal.

Thyroid hormones: Less than a week removed from 9 days of Triac at 4mg/day: TSH 2.06 uIU/ML; T3 1.09 ng/ml; Free T3 3.27 pg/ml; T4 4.81 ug/dl; Free T4 1.09 ng/dl;

Sides: Acne/Backne/Chestne as bad as it's ever been due to androgens; facial hair growing VERY rapidly; hair on my head actually seems thin for the first time due to androgens; bloated as **** (will start on the letro/finasteride combo in a couple hours)

Strength and sex drive are through the roof, and I feel like Superman.

BTW, I'm dropping the M1T any day now, and coming off totally in about 4 weeks for a LONG time (hopefully).

Any questions/ comments feel free. :rant:

 

[DR.D]

Wow, great data SS! I think everyone agrees you got big cojones at 60mg/d M1T. You must be huge! The acne though, that's enough 4AD alone to do me bad. Were you not using a topical skin treatment or some antibiotics or accutane? I don't think I could do that cycle w/out something like that! Did you get electrolytes or creatinine values? Also, any hematology... total RBC or WBC breakdown? I would get the M1T sickness for sure at that dose, and have been looking for a possible explaination so that I could formulate a solution to this problem.

If you usually w/o 2hr before the draw, I wonder if the isozymes haven't always skewed your liver values on the high side? On these latest numbers, the ALT is getting up there a little, but the others really ain't too bad concidering what you were using. Also, your chol. is great! Ratio sucks, but that's just how it goes. I use all the right oils on and off cycle and still get 7'ish ratios. Anyway, thanks SS, this is valuable data. :thumbsup:

 

[bioman]

Nice work SS..aka Kamikaze Juicer!

Those values are not as bad as I would have imagined. I'm sure that has a lot to do with protective supps though. K-RALA or regular R-ALA?

This last cycle of 1600 mg/week Sledge Test stacked with 5-10 mg M1T gave me the worst bacne/chestne and hairloss I've had to date. Additionally it seems to have caused more pronounced scaring than usual. I've been dosing about 8 grams/day of B5 since the termination of the cycle and now, 4 weeks later it is just starting to tame down.

I gained size like the Hulk and got bigger than ever..a lot of it was water but hey, it was fun while it lasted. Went from 175 to 186, some of which was muscle memory from a bad cuttting cycle. Back down to 182 right now.

I did get M1T sickness after about 3 days of dosing 5 mg. I stopped dosing M1T, continued the Sledge Test and in 2 days the m1T flu abated. I resumed m1T dosages at 5-10mg/day with no further problems. I will try this from now on when flu symptoms come on. Chest did feel a little tight but I did no cardio.

 

[Dan]

I think everyone agrees you got big cojones at 60mg/d M1T. :thumbsup:

Big cojones at a dose like that? Somehow I doubt it!

 

[DR.D]

Big cojones at a dose like that? Somehow I doubt it!

Yeah, but it takes pretty big balls to just kiss 'em goodbye! My nuts go on vacation w/ just 10mg of this stuff!

 

[supersoldier]

Big cojones at a dose like that? Somehow I doubt it!

So true, so true. :rofl:

Dr. D the only other test I ran was Calcium, and it was 9.1. I could have run a lot more, I just didn't think anybody was interested in other tests. I don't know if you've read my other threads.

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[supersoldier]

Nice work SS..aka Kamikaze Juicer!

I'm sure that has a lot to do with protective supps though. K-RALA or regular R-ALA?

Neither, I'm a broke ass. :sad: I have a bunch of NAC, I've been taking about 2400mg twice a day (once post-workout with a gram of Vitamin C) mostly as an anti-oxidant.

Other than that I tested a bottle of Sldge's Glucophase XR which I think has K-RALA in it with some other goodies, but I didn't take that regularly, and I only had about 30 or so caps to test out, maybe less. And I finished that bottle before I even started this current stint with M1T.

I think all the M1T I've taken has had a direct Super-Anabolic effect on my liver. Right... :lol:

 

[supersoldier]

You must be huge!

I actually thought I lost a lot of size somehow. I suppose it's because I'm bloated as ****, so my arm:torso ratio is a lot smaller than it was when I was shredded. I wore a sleeveless instead of a tank top to the gym today, and caught a good look at my arms in the mirror, before I even started warming up. GOOD GOD!!! :twisted:

I think I've decided to not even start on the Letro/Finasteride and just be a fucking monster. Even if it looks like I'm in my 2nd Tri-mester of carrying SS jr. :trout: :rofl:

 

[Manu20]

I actually thought I lost a lot of size somehow. I suppose it's because I'm bloated as ****, so my arm:torso ratio is a lot smaller than it was when I was shredded. I wore a sleeveless instead of a tank top to the gym today, and caught a good look at my arms in the mirror, before I even started warming up. GOOD GOD!!! :twisted:

I think I've decided to not even start on the Letro/Finasteride and just be a fucking monster. Even if it looks like I'm in my 2nd Tri-mester of carrying SS jr. :trout: :rofl:

:icon_lol: ...damn bro this is one long cycle!!

 

[DR.D]

So true, so true. :rofl:

Dr. D the only other test I ran was Calcium, and it was 9.1. I could have run a lot more, I just didn't think anybody was interested in other tests. I don't know if you've read my other threads.

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I read the full threads on those links, good info. This stuff should be used for male birth control, it looks even more suppressive than MENT and test combined! I'd really like to see some creatinine values though. It would probably take a 24hr urine sample, but I know you can get the blood tested too. I used to run it on Cobas and Hitachi analyzers. I'd like to see your electolytes too, the Ca looks normal. Also, did you have a breakdown on your WBC's or just the total value, and RBC? The low blood sugar is striking. I think this also contributes to the lethargy. I gotta use dexadrine to stay up on this ****!

 

[LCSULLA]

Nice work SS..aka Kamikaze Juicer!

Hate to sound like a mother-hen, but be the **** carefull SS.

 

[supersoldier]

I read the full threads on those links, good info. This stuff should be used for male birth control, it looks even more suppressive than MENT and test combined! I'd really like to see some creatinine values though. It would probably take a 24hr urine sample, but I know you can get the blood tested too. I used to run it on Cobas and Hitachi analyzers. I'd like to see your electolytes too, the Ca looks normal. Also, did you have a breakdown on your WBC's or just the total value, and RBC? The low blood sugar is striking. I think this also contributes to the lethargy. I gotta use dexadrine to stay up on this ****!

You don't think Creatinine is skewed by Creatine supplementation? I know my Creatinine and BUN are ALWAYS high, whether on this, that, or nothing at all. I just figure the high creatinine is from creatine, which I NEVER come off of, and the high BUN is from the 400g min protein/day I get whether ON or OFF. Any validity to my assumptions :think: ?

Next time I run labs I'll do everything including electrolytes. As far as the CBC goes, do you want me to make a slide and do a manual diff and look for RBC/WBC breakdown/lyse, or what? I work nights and usually have nothing better to do than sit on AM and click Refresh :blink: . Any interest in Coags like PT/PTT, Fibrinogen, D-Dimer?

Also shoot me a PM with your email .

 

[DR.D]

You don't think Creatinine is skewed by Creatine supplementation? I know my Creatinine and BUN are ALWAYS high, whether on this, that, or nothing at all. :think: ?

Next time I run labs I'll do everything including electrolytes. As far as the CBC goes, do you want me to make a slide and do a manual diff and look for RBC/WBC breakdown/lyse, or what? I work nights and usually have nothing better to do than sit on AM and click Refresh :blink: . Any interest in Coags like PT/PTT, Fibrinogen, D-Dimer?

Also shoot me a PM with your email .

Your right, creatinine is skewed very easily. On 15g creatine monohydrate/d, my creatinine result predicted that I should be over 300lb's and over 7 feet tall! Food intake, excercise, etc. all influence the value, but it would still be good to know. I get a pretty accurate 'feel' for the true condition if I know all the numbers, even the ones that don't seem directly related. If your just sitting around at night looking for something to do, may as well draw some blood and test! Then you can get back to searching topics on AM, looking up internet porn and robbing the Demerol cabnit! LOL

Really, you've done us all a great service w/ this data, and it's really unique info. Who else has done these newer anabolics and run constant numbers while on? Just like LCSULLA points out, we see your doses and want to flip-out, but w/ the lab access, I'd experiment w/ higher doses too. I'd be more scared of the effects of chronic creatine on kidney stone formation than anything else. Your young, and won't have to pay for the anabolics for another decade or two probably.

I'd like to see a total breakdown on the corpuscles. Diff, clot times, dimers, all that. Thanks SS!