Dosing Test Cyp

[jinxie]

Looking to hear the latest opinions on dosing Test Cyp when using hCG. It seems that the consensus is that it's best to dose it twice per week. As I recall, Dr. John prefers once per week.

Also, Jan, are you using a 5/16", 31 gauge slin pin to inject test cyp? Anyone else doing this with success? I have a whole lot of insulin pins, so I may give it a shot if it's not a pain in the ass to pull the oil.

Thanks,
J

 

[JanSz]

Looking to hear the latest opinions on dosing Test Cyp when using hCG. It seems that the consensus is that it's best to dose it twice per week. As I recall, Dr. John prefers once per week.

Also, Jan, are you using a 5/16", 31 gauge slin pin to inject test cyp? Anyone else doing this with success? I have a whole lot of insulin pins, so I may give it a shot if it's not a pain in the ass to pull the oil.

Thanks,
J

Pull the plug 5 units over the desired range.
Hold as shown on attachment and go about your bussiness for few minutes, remove bubbles, do the shot.

 

[jinxie]

Jan, does the SQ injection increase risk of elevated E2, as far as you know? As I recall, Dr. John strongly states that T should be injected IM. Maybe it has something to do with efficacy, because of it being oil based.

 

[JanSz]

Jan, does the SQ injection increase risk of elevated E2, as far as you know? As I recall, Dr. John strongly states that T should be injected IM. Maybe it has something to do with efficacy, because of it being oil based.

I think subQ or IM are equal.
If you have a doubts, try both, find out how your body react.

I think that frequent injections are conducive to lower E2 levels.

I inject EOD, 175mg/week Test
HCG 300iu/EOD
my BAT~575
I currently do not use Arimidex, E2 stays ok.

 

[jinxie]

I think subQ or IM are equal.
If you have a doubts, try both, find out how your body react.

I think that frequent injections are conducive to lower E2 levels.

I inject EOD, 175mg/week Test
HCG 300iu/EOD
my BAT~575
I currently do not use Arimidex, E2 stays ok.

Can't argue with those results. And you feeling good, so it sounds.

Did the e2 issues resolve once you found your sweet spot in terms of frequency and dose? My e2 would be well over 100 with that protocol. Then again, I respond strongly to hCG, and I am assuming that you don't respond much in terms of T production. Have you found that the hCG does much for you, other than aesthetics?

Thanks man.

 

[JanSz]

Can't argue with those results. And you feeling good, so it sounds.

Did the e2 issues resolve once you found your sweet spot in terms of frequency and dose? My e2 would be well over 100 with that protocol. Then again, I respond strongly to hCG, and I am assuming that you don't respond much in terms of T production. Have you found that the hCG does much for you, other than aesthetics?

Thanks man.

If you are responding strongly to HCG,
means that you are using too much of it, reduce dose.
Do not use more HCG than it can be comfortably controlled with 1.5mg/week of Arimidex.
.
=========================================
When we start talking about your fertility, in your case we may have to relax E2 rules until conception.
Fertility doctors do not even test for testosterone or estrodial or DHT, they just pump HCG (6000-10000iu/week) and latter HMG.

We here try to accomplish fertility wih minimum compromise to other heath issues.
.
.


.

 

[jinxie]

If you are responding strongly to HCG,
means that you are using too much of it, reduce dose.
Do not use more HCG than it can be comfortably controlled with 1.5mg/week of Arimidex.
.
=========================================
When we start talking about your fertility, in your case we may have to relax E2 rules until conception.
Fertility doctors do not even test for testosterone or estrodial or DHT, they just pump HCG (6000-10000iu/week) and latter HMG.

We here try to accomplish fertility wih minimum compromise to other heath issues.
.
.


.

Thanks. I've reduced my hCG dose substantially, and believe my E2 issues are under control with .7 mgs of adex per week. However, my injuries still are not healing as quickly as I would like, and I believe reverting back to T Cyp + hCG may be helpful. Last time I was on T Cyp, I was doing one shot a week. If I give it another shot, I will dose every 3-4 days (equivalent, 100 mgs per week), with hCG (equivalent to 400-500 mgs per week) the day before. Do you think this is likely to compromise fertility? If so, I will just stick to the hCG monotherapy. The fertility concern throws wrinkle in things, IMO.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[nuker]

When is it best to take the arimidex? Is it best on the day of the shot or a day before or after?

 

[jinxie]

When is it best to take the arimidex? Is it best on the day of the shot or a day before or after?

Depends on the half life of the med used to increase Test, as well as frequency, but, generally, I'd suggest the day of the shot. If you only shoot once per week, you may want to take it twice per week. I take a very small dose EOD. But E3Ds or twice per week works well, based on my experience. Some even take every day.

 

[thenxtgrt1]

Thanks. I've reduced my hCG dose substantially, and believe my E2 issues are under control with .7 mgs of adex per week. However, my injuries still are not healing as quickly as I would like, and I believe reverting back to T Cyp + hCG may be helpful. Last time I was on T Cyp, I was doing one shot a week. If I give it another shot, I will dose every 3-4 days (equivalent, 100 mgs per week), with hCG (equivalent to 400-500 mgs per week) the day before. Do you think this is likely to compromise fertility? If so, I will just stick to the hCG monotherapy. The fertility concern throws wrinkle in things, IMO.

Thanks for the advice.

I'm kind of in the same boat as you. I have a few nagging injuries that I wish would heal. I know your levels are high from HCG monotherapy, how will exogeneous Test aid in healing? I would theorize that high levels produced from HCG would get the job done.

 

[jinxie]

I'm kind of in the same boat as you. I have a few nagging injuries that I wish would heal. I know your levels are high from HCG monotherapy, how will exogeneous Test aid in healing? I would theorize that high levels produced from HCG would get the job done.

They are high, and they were in the ether when I was on hCG at 1500 IUs E3Ds, with .375 mgs of Adex, but so was my E2 -- 90! So, I cant get my FT and Bio-T up there without hitting the adex hard, and my concern with that is drying up my joints and F'ing up my lipid profile. I think the test will promote some water retention, and I know from experience it wont send my E2 as high. When I was on the Crisler protocol, 1 mg of Adex per week caused my E2 to drop from 83 to 20 (a perfect number) in 3 weeks. And I dont want to take any more than that amount of Adex.

It's one of those things where it is impossible to know without trying. I've been entirely happy with hCG monotherapy, and would be content to stay on track but for my nagging injuries. I wish I was up for HGH, as I even have a doc that mentioned he was open to it given my health issues. But, alas, I just don't want to add a whole new line of treatment to my regimen at this juncture, particularly such a spendy one.

Thanks for the feedback. I want to be kept honets.

 

[JanSz]

...........................monotherapy, and would be content to stay on track but for my nagging injuries.

I had number of surgeries in my life.
Two of them may be of some use for you.

Supraspinatus tendon reattached (shoulder area).

Distal biceps tendon reattached (elbow area).

With first I had tremendous amount of pain before and specially after surgery, had to wait over 4 months to have any use of hand, took up to 1.5 years before I was able to forgot about it.

The second one, no pain breaking it, no pain after surgery.
Just completed 120days after surgery and got release from my doc.

Other than staying in good health there is no way to speed tendons healing (re-attachment).

Not even when using Natural Stem Cell Theraphy.

Stem cell theraphy is very usefull in recovering from strains (but not when complete break is involved).

.
.

 

[ECTOmorph]

I think subQ or IM are equal.
If you have a doubts, try both, find out how your body react.

I think that frequent injections are conducive to lower E2 levels.

I inject EOD, 175mg/week Test
HCG 300iu/EOD
my BAT~575
I currently do not use Arimidex, E2 stays ok.

How has this EOD test-EOD hcg plan make you feel compared to once a week test -twice a week hcg plan you may have used in the past (dr j's plan)?

 

[oldmanlifting]

Looking to hear the latest opinions on dosing Test Cyp when using hCG. It seems that the consensus is that it's best to dose it twice per week. As I recall, Dr. John prefers once per week.

Also, Jan, are you using a 5/16", 31 gauge slin pin to inject test cyp? Anyone else doing this with success? I have a whole lot of insulin pins, so I may give it a shot if it's not a pain in the ass to pull the oil.

Thanks,
J

I've tried both and got to say once a week is probably good for most. I use a 25 gauge 1/2 inch and this takes a while. I would not want to try a 31 gauge. I also pull with a 20 gauge and change out the needles. I have the theroy the less I stick myself the better as long as I feel good.

 

[jinxie]

I think subQ or IM are equal.
If you have a doubts, try both, find out how your body react.

I think that frequent injections are conducive to lower E2 levels.

I inject EOD, 175mg/week Test
HCG 300iu/EOD
my BAT~575
I currently do not use Arimidex, E2 stays ok.

New protocol: 55 mgs test cyp, E4Ds; 250 mgs hCG and .5 mgs Adex, E4Ds, the day before test cyp shots.

 

[JanSz]

New protocol: 55 mgs test cyp, E4Ds; 250 mgs hCG and .5 mgs Adex, E4Ds, the day before test cyp shots.

If I understand correctly:

=55*7/2=96.25mg/week Test (kind of low)
=250*7/4=437.5 iu/week HCG (kind of very low)
=0.5*7/4=0.875mg/week Arimidex

Wish you luck.

.
.
Per research, body production of HCG can be replaced by 306iu/EOD

=306*7/2=1071iu/week

with 10% margin
1.1*306=380iu

I suggest 380iu/EOD (if that ends up with still too much E2, reduce to 300iu).
Remember, more frequent schedule, either T or hcg, less problems with E2.

Bottom of post #62
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jan-s-bloodtest-3.html
============================================
Your testis are producing testosterone when stimulated by HCG. They just do not produce enough of it.
You have used additional HCG, ended with only litle extra TT and a lots of E2.

On 380iu/EOD you should not produce too much E2 (hopefully) but you should get all your natural testosterone that your testis are able to produce under normal stimulation.

The 55mg/E4D=96.25mg/week may or may not be sufficient

Goal BAT~575
E2(20-30)
DHT top of range
=============================================
My testis are not producing testosterone.
SHBG=18
TT=1117
BAT=584

I use 50mg/EOD=50*7/2=175mg/week

 

[jinxie]

If I understand correctly:

=55*7/2=96.25mg/week Test (kind of low)
=250*7/4=437.5 iu/week HCG (kind of very low)
=0.5*7/4=0.875mg/week Arimidex

Wish you luck.

.
.
Per research, body production of HCG can be replaced by 306iu/EOD

=306*7/2=1071iu/week

with 10% margin
1.1*306=380iu

I suggest 380iu/EOD (if that ends up with still too much E2, reduce to 300iu).
Remember, more frequent schedule, either T or hcg, less problems with E2.

Bottom of post #62
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jan-s-bloodtest-3.html
============================================
Your testis are producing testosterone when stimulated by HCG. They just do not produce enough of it.
You have used additional HCG, ended with only litle extra TT and a lots of E2.

On 380iu/EOD you should not produce too much E2 (hopefully) but you should get all your natural testosterone that your testis are able to produce under normal stimulation.

The 55mg/E4D=96.25mg/week may or may not be sufficient

Goal BAT~575
E2(20-30)
DHT top of range
=============================================
My testis are not producing testosterone.
SHBG=18
TT=1117
BAT=584

I use 50mg/EOD=50*7/2=175mg/week

Thanks Jan. 100 mgs per week of test, along with 500 mgs of hCG brought me about top of TT range at trough. That was on the Crisler protocol. This is essentially the same dose, but greater frequency, which should be more efficient. It should place me at the upper end of the range. If I took all that hCG, my E2 would be over 120, and my TT would be 1600+ at trough. Trust me on that.

It's hard to infer much from a few days, but so far, so good on 1 T shot and 1 hCG shot.

My SHGB is 36, if you wanna consult your chart for me. It's possible that my test shots should be slightly higher -- 60-70 mgs each. What's your magic 8 ball chart say?

Thanks for your reply and any further insight, bud.

 

[JanSz]

Thanks Jan. 100 mgs per week of test, along with 500 mgs of hCG brought me about top of TT range at trough. That was on the Crisler protocol. This is essentially the same dose, but greater frequency, which should be more efficient. It should place me at the upper end of the range. If I took all that hCG, my E2 would be over 120, and my TT would be 1600+ at trough. Trust me on that.

It's hard to infer much from a few days, but so far, so good on 1 T shot and 1 hCG shot.

My SHGB is 36, if you wanna consult your chart for me. It's possible that my test shots should be slightly higher -- 60-70 mgs each. What's your magic 8 ball chart say?

Thanks for your reply and any further insight, bud.

SHGB is 36

TT(750-1200)

750---->FreeT~160
1200---->FreeT~300

.
Dr Crisler's protocol is good for most but not for everybody.
On EOD schedule there is no need to talk about peak and through levels,
That is why daily transdermals are being "pushed".
.
.

 

[jinxie]

SHGB is 36

TT(750-1200)

750---->FreeT~160
1200---->FreeT~300

.
Dr Crisler's protocol is good for most but not for everybody.
On EOD schedule there is no need to talk about peak and through levels,
That is why daily transdermals are being "pushed".
.
.

You know, Jan, if I could just take shots EOD, I would do it. But I dont want to take them every day, and that's what happens when I am taking hCG AND T Cyp each EOD. That's just too much shooting for me. Four times per week seems like plenty.

I'll see how this goes. It should be better than shooting Test once per week. I'm mid stream between Crisler's protocol's and Jan's song. Thanks bud.

 

[JanSz]

You know, Jan, if I could just take shots EOD, I would do it. But I dont want to take them every day, and that's what happens when I am taking hCG AND T Cyp each EOD. That's just too much shooting for me. Four times per week seems like plenty.

I'll see how this goes. It should be better than shooting Test once per week. I'm mid stream between Crisler's protocol's and Jan's song. Thanks bud.

The smallest needle that I know of is:

NovoFine® 32G Tip needle, a 6mm needle.

It is used in insuline pen.

There must be a way to use them for T & HCG injections.

I have seen opinions that it is ok to inject (say in restaurant) thru shirt without disinfecting the skin.

Possibly someone familiar with insulin pens chime in.

.
I use 31Ga 5/15" long needlles.

one day 1 T-shot
next day 2 hots, HCG & B12
.
.
===============================================
Infrequent shots = higher E2 levels.

.
.
================================================
I am guessing that it should be possible to dump insuline from this pen and refeel it with depo-testosterone.
Needles are replaceable for each shot. On the end of pen there is a rubber stopper for insertig the needle.
I see that the max shot size is 32 units, I use 25 units EOD for my T injections and 15-20 units for HCG (300-400).
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