Don't you guys worry about "having" to abandon HRT?

[rick055]

Jan... Progesterone/Estrogen are Progestrone/Estrogen at the end of the day; regardless of where they come from (Vet or human grade)..

I could be wrong but I don't think that's necessarily true.

I think all of the studies on bioidentical estrogen have been positive. Premarin and the like are synthetic and I don't even think estrogen, exactly. Again, I could be wrong, I just read something on this and have to check it out.

 

[anyman]

I agree that hcg is mandatory, at least for now, but worry it has problems too.

I agree... However, HCG is a huge must just in case different alternatives come about and one would be faced with having to abandon their currnet HRT regimen.

While hcg is a must in my book as well, I worry that hcg will shut down the H-P part of the HPTA just as T shuts down the testes. Can a person who has been on hcg for years be expected to "restart" whatever limited capacity they might still have?

I do not have the answer to this one. For every solution there are problems arising therefrom, some as of yet unknown. Still, we must make the best choices we can given the limited options.

 

[BigAk]

While hcg is a must in my book as well, I worry that hcg will shut down the H-P part of the HPTA just as T shuts down the testes. Can a person who has been on hcg for years be expected to "restart" whatever limited capacity they might still have?

I do not have the answer to this one. For every solution there are problems arising therefrom, some as of yet unknown. Still, we must make the best choices we can given the limited options.

That's why I see benefit and merit in taking an HRT vacation once a year in order to keep the pituitary active in producing LH, FSH, etc...

 

[jaydesiel4651]

arent they developing SARMS which are supposed to be some kind of alternative test therapy with the pros and less cons of test.....i havent researched it much but its sure as hell intresting.

 

[anyman]

I understand the theory of what you advocate, but am not yet convinced.

That's why I see benefit and merit in taking an HRT vacation once a year in order to keep the pituitary active in producing LH, FSH, etc...

In theory I agree with you that one should strive to keep whatever natural production capabilities functioning. Perhaps you may be right and an occasional "vacation" from TRT would help. I am and have been one of the biggest proponents of avoiding HRT at all reasonable costs as I too despise dependence and the evils attendant to it.

However, I wonder about the "cost" and ultimate effectiveness. By "cost" I don't mean monetary and instead refer to a man's mental and physical state. Would cessation of HRT cause an epic crash and possibily disrupt or even end hard fought for stability? How long of a break would be needed? Would such even work? Would a week, 2 weeks or even a month w/o HRT be enough to get the body going? What about guys who's systems have pretty much shut down? Can it not be argued that for guys like this there isn't much left to preserve?

I don't have the answers here, which is why I am on this board. I do agree that we need to enter HRT as only a last resort and strive to preserve what there is via hcg or whatever else comes along.

Right now I am struggling with the dependence aspect and am only reluctantly coming to terms that something in me broke for unknown reasons. I hate what I perceive as weakness and a latent defect, but what choices do I have?

This issue will only get worse I fear. More and more men are going to get sucked into this morass as whatever we are doing to ourselves and the planet intensifies.

 

[BillfromNJ]

Thousands of women had to abandon their HRT based on the results of that research... Could the same ever happen to us men??

I have to find the link I just read of a study that it is E2 that causes all the problems in women as well as men you can add the right ingredients but your body has to metabolize them to be successful so I would guess all women on HRT should be taking Dim to keep everything in check. I will find article again and post link

 

[JanSz]

Jan... Progesterone/Estrogen are Progestrone/Estrogen at the end of the day; regardless of where they come from (Vet or human grade).. Don't you think the medical professionals have given this a thought upon doing their research?? I don't read about MD's saying to the general public "Look yal.. We've made a mistake in that last study... Oooopsie... We've meant to use human grade stuff... Consider that last study a bunch of horse play."

Am I missing something else???

Yes, missing the difference between human and horse.

MD's are definitely keeping their mouths shut.

All others are shouting that it is horse hormone that was causing all this problems.

I thought that you must have heard about it.

 

[cpeil2]

Jan... Progesterone/Estrogen are Progestrone/Estrogen at the end of the day; regardless of where they come from (Vet or human grade)

That is only partly true. You are right, E2 is E2, no matter what the source. But the mix of estrogen fractions in premarin is much different from that in human estrogen. It is much higher in Estrone (E1) than human estrogen and it contains estrogen fractions that are not normally present at all in the human body.

But even that isn't necessarily bad. It seems that most guys posting here have no issues with hCG -even though hCG is never naturally present in a healthy man's system.

 

[BigAk]

Yes, missing the difference between human and horse.

MD's are definitely keeping their mouths shut.

All others are shouting that it is horse hormone that was causing all this problems.

I thought that you must have heard about it.

I find it very strange that MD's involved in this research are keeping their mouth shut and resuming with the fact that the study was accurate and legitimate... while everyone on here disputing it as horse play... What benefit would the MD's gain from this??

 

[BigAk]

But even that isn't necessarily bad. It seems that most guys posting here have no issues with hCG -even though hCG is never naturally present in a healthy man's system.

This is a very interesting point cpeil.. It didn't even occur to me to think it.. You're right, men have been injecting this female hormone hcg for years.

 

[JanSz]

I find it very strange that MD's involved in this research are keeping their mouth shut and resuming with the fact that the study was accurate and legitimate... while everyone on here disputing it as horse play... What benefit would the MD's gain from this??

Make a guess, follow the money, big pharma.

Big Pharma is not making big profits on natural hormones.

Even look at testosterone,

little powder + oil = comp test, injectable 30mL vial = $100 for a 9 months supply

little powder + alcohol +gel=Androgel = $200 for 2 weeks supply

9months= ~20 2 week periods

Big Pharma 40x more expensive

 

[BigAk]

If that's true, it sucks big time that things are controlled by money with very little regards to our health and well being.. My trust is fading away more and more with the health system and the doctors that play this big game.

 

[cpeil2]

this female hormone hcg for years.

Sort of a female hormone . . . actually, the conceptus produces it in early pregnancy to stimulate the mother's ovaries to produce progesterone.

 

[JanSz]

I find it very strange that MD's involved in this research are keeping their mouth shut and resuming with the fact that the study was accurate and legitimate... while everyone on here disputing it as horse play... What benefit would the MD's gain from this??

Pick out any three doctors.
Go to their office and sit there three hours.
Look for salesman to go in and out frequently.
Go there another day, same thing.

Never ending flow of salesman.

Make minimal effort to connect dots.
----------------------------------------------------
Depending on which salesman was at his office half an hour before, my doc was offering me either Androgel or Testim.

When I asked to up the dose he cleared it with salesman first.
.
.
Wonder when I always say to be nice to doctors, they are the source of prescriptions.
Just be carefull when asking for diagnosis.
.
.
USA is still the best country to live in.
Everywhere else is worst.
I do not want much change, I just make an effort to figure out how the system works and go with the flow.
-----------------------------------------------

 

[BigAk]

Pick out any three doctors.
Go to their office and sit there three hours.
Look for salesman to go in and out frequently.
Go there another day, same thing.

Never ending flow of salesman.

Make minimal effort to connect dots.
----------------------------------------------------
Depending on which salesman was at his office half an hour before, my doc was offering me either Androgel or Testim.

When I asked to up the dose he cleared it with salesman first.
.
.
Wonder when I always say to be nice to doctors, they are the source of prescriptions.
Just be carefull when asking for diagnosis.
.
.
USA is still the best country to live in.
Everywhere else is worst.
I do not want much change, I just make an effort to figure out how the system works and go with the flow.

Yup... I see that all the time.. YOu're right.... That's another reason to hate to be dependent on such individuals who got your life in their hands.

 

[Diancecht]

20 to 30 years ago a signficant number of reps were R.N. or Pharmacists by background and provided some usefull info. Now they dont have anywhere near the education and in my book arent very usefull except to get samples for indigent patients. Therefore if I talk to a rep once a year that would be about it. Many of us are to busy to take the time for such little benefit.