Donald Trump running for president

muscleupcrohn said:
My point is that they’re not “socialist” economies, they’re regulated capitalist economies with social programs. Every actual socialist country became communist. They need the capitalist backbone to work and not be perverted into communism.
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In China they call it "Socialism with Chinese Characteristics" since the post Mao era. Its all mind warping.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
So the page is apparently down now (and I had to use DuckDuckGo instead of Google to even find it):

Invalid Link Removed

But luckily the Internet Archive (Wayback Machine) has a record of it:

Invalid Link Removed

It does indeed say “Economic security to all who are unable or unwilling to work.”
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lol...economic freedom to all unwilling to work--I guess all those bums could now afford to move out of parents basements!!!



oh, wait--they could still live in parents basements and use that 'free' money for drugs and alcohol...oooohraaaah
 
thebigt said:
lol...economic freedom to all unwilling to work--I guess all those bums could now afford to move out of parents basements!!!



oh, wait--they could still live in parents basements and use that 'free' money for drugs and alcohol...oooohraaaah
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No comrade. Those are now our basements :P
 
going back to making all drugs legal...is the government going to give drugs out for free?

what happens when many drug users become dependent/addicted and are no longer able or willing to work, where is money for drugs going to come from?
 
thebigt said:
lol...i hope you see now why I vote republican...I remember you laughed when I said I am not ready for this country to be socialist.
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How about libertarian? Republicans also want to greatly expand government power the vast majority of the time. They’re better than socialists, but they inevitably give the government more power, which then gives more power to the democrats when it swings back to their majority and/or President.
 
thebigt said:
going back to making all drugs legal...is the government going to give drugs out for free?

what happens when many drug users become dependent/addicted and are no longer able or willing to work, where is money for drugs going to come from?
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Alcohol is legal and addicting; “is the government giving out booze for free?

What happens when many alcoholics become addicted and are no longer able or willing to work, where is the money for alcohol going to come from?”

It’s literally the same thing man, and alcohol is 100% a drug, addicting, and can ruin lives. And alcohol withdrawal is actually one of the worst physiological withdrawals of any drug.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
How about libertarian? Republicans also want to greatly expand government power the vast majority of the time. They’re better than socialists, but they inevitably give the government more power, which then gives more power to the democrats when it swings back to their majority and/or President.
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I really like many of the libertarian ideas, but they are not viable-yet....for now it comes down to dems/repubs.

but I can't get on board with legalizing drugs...that is a pandora's box that once opened will be hard to undo...
 
thebigt said:
I really like many of the libertarian ideas, but they are not viable-yet....for now it comes down to dems/repubs.

but I can't get on board with legalizing drugs...that is a pandora's box that once opened will be hard to undo...
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Because prohibition worked so well, right? Gun bans work so well, right?? Nobody ever had access to marijuana when it was illegal, right? Bans have never worked, and only make things worse. Period. Show me one example in America of a ban actually working well.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Alcohol is legal and addicting; “is the government giving out booze for free?

What happens when many alcoholics become addicted and are no longer able or willing to work, where is the money for alcohol going to come from?”

It’s literally the same thing man, and alcohol is 100% a drug, addicting, and can ruin lives. And alcohol withdrawal is actually one of the worst physiological withdrawals of any drug.
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dude, I am a recovering alcoholic...21 years sobriety in march!!!



so you are saying that alcohol is addicting yet you are ready to legalize heroin?
 
thebigt said:
dude, I am a recovering alcoholic...21 years sobriety in march!!!



so you are saying that alcohol is addicting yet you are ready to legalize heroin?
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Congrats man, I truly mean that. But my dad has 37 years, and he agrees with me here, so don’t play the experience card. ;)

And I’m telling you, if we legalize heroin tomorrow the vast, overwhelming majority of people aren’t going to go out and say “well, being illegal was the only thing keeping me from shooting up. Let’s do some heroin.”
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Congrats man, I truly mean that. But my dad has 37 years, and he agrees with me here, so don’t play the experience card. ;)

And I’m telling you, if we legalize heroin tomorrow the vast, overwhelming majority of people aren’t going to go out and say “well, being illegal was the only thing keeping me from shooting up. Let’s do some heroin.”
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1st off congrats to your dad..how old are you?

where are people going to purchase legal heroin, at 7-11?

btw-does insurance/medicare pay for medical pot? I am curious what the price is for pot in those legal head shops?
 
thebigt said:
1st off congrats to your dad..how old are you?

where are people going to purchase legal heroin, at 7-11?

btw-does insurance/medicare pay for medical pot? I am curious what the price is for pot in those legal head shops?
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I’m 24, so he was clean before I was born, and I’m grateful for that. I gave him his 37 year chip a few weeks ago.

And if you can’t buy ephedrine without showing ID at a pharmacy, I can’t imagine heroin having looser restrictions, right? So it’d be available at pharmacies I guess.

I’m also not sure what the price for medical pot is honestly. I highly doubt that it’s more expensive than some prescriptions with the way many pharmaceutical companies operate haha. I do think that we should move towards medical marijuana having standardized THC, that way it can be used like actual medicine with doses, not just taking it until you feel it, and with inherent variability from batch to batch.

And you still haven’t answered my other questions:

-Did prohibition work?
-Do gun bans work?
-Name one ban in the US that did work?
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I’m 24, so he was clean before I was born, and I’m grateful for that. I gave him his 37 year chip a few weeks ago.

And if you can’t buy ephedrine without showing ID at a pharmacy, I can’t imagine heroin having looser restrictions, right? So it’d be available at pharmacies I guess.

I’m also not sure what the price for medical pot is honestly. I highly doubt that it’s more expensive than some prescriptions with the way many pharmaceutical companies operate haha. I do think that we should move towards medical marijuana having standardized THC, that way it can be used like actual medicine with doses, not just taking it until you feel it, and with inherent variability from batch to batch.

And you still haven’t answered my other questions:

-Did prohibition work? no it did not
-Do gun bans work? no they do not
-Name one ban in the US that did work?
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well, cigarette smoking is now banned in most public places, it's not 100% but close

your dad is a good man!!! there are very few people I know of who have that number of years sobriety, you should be very proud of him, that is a major accomplishment!!!

as to legalized pot, I think they sell it in pot 'stores' that have to be licensed and most probably have a 'special' tax on sales...I am curious if it is legal to grow your own pot in states where pot has been legalized or if you are required to buy at licensed store that gets taxed?
 
thebigt said:
well, cigarette smoking is now banned in most public places, it's not 100% but close

your dad is a good man!!! there are very few people I know of who have that number of years sobriety, you should be very proud of him, that is a major accomplishment!!!

as to legalized pot, I think they sell it in pot 'stores' that have to be licensed and most probably have a 'special' tax on sales...I am curious if it is legal to grow your own pot in states where pot has been legalized or if you are required to buy at licensed store that gets taxed?
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Thank you. I am very proud of and thankful for him.

I think recreational states allow you to grow a small amount? That’s what some old lady told me her son does in whatever state he is in lol. Just like I think you can brew your own alcohol at home in most places, you just can’t sell it, and if you made a s**t ton you may be charged with intent to sell if they somehow find out I guess? I’m not an expert on that.
 
thebigt said:
I really like many of the libertarian ideas, but they are not viable-yet....for now it comes down to dems/repubs.

but I can't get on board with legalizing drugs...that is a pandora's box that once opened will be hard to undo...
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Screw both of them, they all belong to the same club.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Thank you. I am very proud of and thankful for him.

I think recreational states allow you to grow a small amount? That’s what some old lady told me her son does in whatever state he is in lol. Just like I think you can brew your own alcohol at home in most places, you just can’t sell it, and if you made a s**t ton you may be charged with intent to sell if they somehow find out I guess? I’m not an expert on that.
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you know, there are a ton of questions that should be addressed before we should even consider legalizing hard drugs, it would be hard to be comprehensive with all the issues that are certain would come with legalizing drugs like oxycodone or cocaine..California probably has the most lenient drug laws and look at the mess they are in.
 
thebigt said:
you know, there are a ton of questions that should be addressed before we should even consider legalizing hard drugs, it would be hard to be comprehensive with all the issues that are certain would come with legalizing drugs like oxycodone or cocaine..California probably has the most lenient drug laws and look at the mess they are in.
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They also have some of the tightest gun control laws and look at the mess they are in.

California is just a mess; you can’t blame it on one thing. They’re a mess across the board.

Did prohibition work?
Do gun bans work?

And yeah, there’s a lot to figure out first, but that doesn’t mean that we can inherently dismiss the idea entirely.
 
thebigt said:
lol...i hope you see now why I vote republican...I remember you laughed when I said I am not ready for this country to be socialist.
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She's one elected official who is being called out by other Democrats. Again, the minority doesn't speak for the majority. Democrats or even "liberals" doesn't mean socialist. The same way that Republican doesn't mean absence of all socialist ideas.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
She's one elected official who is being called out by other Democrats. Again, the minority doesn't speak for the majority. Democrats or even "liberals" doesn't mean socialist. The same way that Republican doesn't mean absence of all socialist ideas.
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I know, I know...the young people love her though, I hope my generation holds out long enough for these young people to grow up.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
They also have some of the tightest gun control laws and look at the mess they are in.

California is just a mess; you can’t blame it on one thing. They’re a mess across the board.

Did prohibition work?
Do gun bans work?

And yeah, there’s a lot to figure out first, but that doesn’t mean that we can inherently dismiss the idea entirely.
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reread post #27770. it will probably happen one day, I hope when it does that society has become much more responsible for it's own actions than it is today.
 
thebigt said:
reread post #27770. it will probably happen one day, I hope when it does that society has become much more responsible for it's own actions than it is today.
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Doesn’t answer about prohibition or guns.

And it only bans smoking in PUBLIC. I’m talking a ban in general. You can’t drink in your car; does that mean we have an alcohol ban?
 
Drugs are so incredibly easy to get, it’s not like if they open drug shops it would increase their availability or anything.

It was easier for me on a small town high school to get acid or cocaine than alcohol.
 
thebigt said:
I know, I know...the young people love her though, I hope my generation holds out long enough for these young people to grow up.
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That's what young people do and most get a different perspective when they start working and realize how much groceries cost. They're morons and naive, but this isn't the first generation gap in politics. You've been around long enough to remember hippies.
 
ax1 said:
Drugs are so incredibly easy to get, it’s not like if they open drug shops it would increase their availability or anything.

It was easier for me on a small town high school to get acid or cocaine than alcohol.
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This. It was much easier for people in my HS to get weed than alcohol.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
That's what young people do and most get a different perspective when they start working and realize how much groceries cost. They're morons and naive, but this isn't the first generation gap in politics. You've been around long enough to remember hippies.
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lol..of course.
I shudder at the thought of how dangerous my generation would have been if we had internet and social media...OMG.


of course, the democrats were way more middle of the road back then...the closest thing to a left wing radical was jimmy carter. oh yeah, I forgot about pat Paulson.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Doesn’t answer about prohibition or guns.

And it only bans smoking in PUBLIC. I’m talking a ban in general. You can’t drink in your car; does that mean we have an alcohol ban?
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you didn't read CAREFULLY, lol


if it is a law against something is it not a ban?
 
thebigt said:
lol..of course.
I shudder at the thought of how dangerous my generation would have been if we had internet and social media...OMG.
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That would be really interesting in the 60s....wonder if majority of people back then would have opted for keyboard trolling as opposed to going out on the streets protesting Nam.
 
ax1 said:
Drugs are so incredibly easy to get, it’s not like if they open drug shops it would increase their availability or anything.

It was easier for me on a small town high school to get acid or cocaine than alcohol.
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blotter acid/barrel/tab? mr.natural was pretty popular so was microdot and barrel, but the best was definitely blotter.
 
ax1 said:
That would be really interesting in the 60s....wonder if majority of people back then would have opted for keyboard trolling as opposed to going out on the streets protesting Nam.
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...cell phones with cameras would have been a game changer.
 
thebigt said:
you didn't read CAREFULLY, lol


if it is a law against something is it not a ban?
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It’s a very specific ban. I’m talking about a general ban on use or ownership. You’re either being intentionally disingenuous or you just don’t understand the difference.

It’s a ban on smoking in PUBLIC, not on smoking. You can’t drink in your car; does that mean we have a ban on alcohol?

And you still haven’t answered my other questions...
 
No one is suggesting making it legal to do heroin at your local library or in front of your local elementary school lol. Bans on smoking in public places aren’t relevant, as no one is suggesting legalizing drugs in public places.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
It’s a very specific ban. I’m talking about a general ban on use or ownership. You’re either being intentionally disingenuous or you just don’t understand the difference.

It’s a ban on smoking in PUBLIC, not on smoking. You can’t drink in your car; does that mean we have a ban on alcohol?

And you still haven’t answered my other questions...
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you still haven't read that post CAREFULLY.
 
thebigt said:
blotter acid/barrel/tab? mr.natural was pretty popular so was microdot and barrel, but the best was definitely blotter.
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The kid I knew in high school had them in sheets of paper and hid it in his Sony Walkman cassette player, lol

I’m guessing those papers were “tabs?”

I really wasnt into that stuff, I smoked pot and drank but went clean almost 20 years ago at the age of 22-23. I was one of those who claimed they were going to smoke for life. Now I look back and it’s embarrassing.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
No one is suggesting making it legal to do heroin at your local library or in front of your local elementary school lol. Bans on smoking in public places aren’t relevant, as no one is suggesting legalizing drugs in public places.
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so you agree that it should be BANNED at the library?


seriously, there are many legitimate concerns that need to be looked at before considering legalization of all drugs-such as if they are taxed, who is to say that they won't become even more expensive than buying from a dealer?
 
ax1 said:
The kid I knew in high school had them in sheets of paper and hid it in his Sony Walkman cassette player, lol

I’m guessing those papers were “tabs?”

I really wasnt into that stuff, I smoked pot and drank but went clean almost 20 years ago at the age of 22-23. I was one of those who claimed they were going to smoke for life. Now I look back and it’s embarrassing.
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brother, I was in those same shoes you were wearing...do not look back with embarassment, instead feel blessed that you were able to give it up-many I grew up with are dead or locked up because they didn't give it up!!!
 
thebigt said:
so you agree that it should be BANNED at the library?


seriously, there are many legitimate concerns that need to be looked at before considering legalization of all drugs-such as if they are taxed, who is to say that they won't become even more expensive than buying from a dealer?
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No s**t. You cant drink in the library... this is getting really dumb. That doesn’t mean it should be banned for use period. You can’t have sex in the library; is there a sex ban? Your logic is terrible here...

And if drugs were legalized, dealers would disappear over time. Look at prohibition, which you still haven’t answered me about. Once it ended, the organized crime syndicates that sold it illegally stopped selling it illegally. You don’t see the mafia selling alcohol anymore, do you?
 
thebigt said:
I guess you either won't or can't read post #27770 your questions have been answered, geez!!!
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Then explain it to me. If I haven’t gotten it after you said it three times, maybe explain it a little more. You’re either being arrogant or just don’t have answer.

You talked about prohibition and gun bans? You talked about a general ban (not a ban on a place) that worked in the US?
 
thebigt said:
well, cigarette smoking is now banned in most public places, it's not 100% but close

your dad is a good man!!! there are very few people I know of who have that number of years sobriety, you should be very proud of him, that is a major accomplishment!!!

as to legalized pot, I think they sell it in pot 'stores' that have to be licensed and most probably have a 'special' tax on sales...I am curious if it is legal to grow your own pot in states where pot has been legalized or if you are required to buy at licensed store that gets taxed?
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Here’s 27770. Where does this address prohibition? Or gun bans? Or a GENERAL ban on use/ownership, not a ban in specific places?
 
thebigt said:
so you agree that it should be BANNED at the library?


seriously, there are many legitimate concerns that need to be looked at before considering legalization of all drugs-such as if they are taxed, who is to say that they won't become even more expensive than buying from a dealer?
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They can be regulated, what people want to do in their own home or private business isn’t anybody else’s business.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Then explain it to me. If I haven’t gotten it after you said it three times, maybe explain it a little more. You’re either being arrogant or just don’t have answer.

You talked about prohibition and gun bans? You talked about a general ban (not a ban on a place) that worked in the US?
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if you want to be specific there is a difference between ban and law. one is a legal statute the other is not-care to guess which is which?
 
thebigt said:
the answer my friend is... blowing in the wind...seriously I answered your questions next to your questions, lol. pay attention to detail!!!
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I just showed you the quote you told me you answered them in, and there’s literally no mention of prohibition or gun bans...

Are you sure you have 21 years sober? You seem like you’re on drugs now...

If I’m missing it, post it again or explain it better.

And inane is a more apt description than insane now that I think of it.

The only thing “blowing in the wind” is your hot air...
 
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