Donald Trump running for president

Aleksandar37 said:
The memo claims McCabe testified that, but it's already been challenged. Let's get one thing straight. These are all he said, she said hearsay bull**** and you're only accepting arguments that bash Democrats and ignoring the same exact crap that Republicans are pulling. Get the **** off your pedestal about "If you can't get upset at that corruption"! I am the only one saying (repeatedly) that both parties are pulling corrupt **** and need to be punished.
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Of course it's being disputed by the side that's being damaged by the truth. Why did the FBI fail to provide documents and testimony for so long to the committee? Those people I named are all involved in the corruption, and they don't want the public to know how deep it goes. Theres a reason they call it the deep state.
 
youngandfree said:
So you don't think it's a good idea that our gdp growth for the first quarter is going to be 5+, when it never saw more than 3 for the last 8 years?
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Let's calm down there Jr. GDP growth is projected to be at 5.4% for the first quarter. That is not even remotely close to a guarantee.

Also, per your linked source, 3rd quarter 2014 had a GDP growth of 5.2%. Lying with statistics is no better than outright lying, so do not try to compare a projected, quarterly growth to FY growth.
 
youngandfree said:
Of course it's being disputed by the side that's being damaged by the truth. Why did the FBI fail to provide documents and testimony for so long to the committee? Those people I named are all involved in the corruption, and they don't want the public to know how deep it goes. Theres a reason they call it the deep state.
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Democrats would use the exact same response about Trump denying Russia claims.

Pot, meet kettle.
 
jimbuick said:
Let's calm down there Jr. GDP growth is projected to be at 5.4% for the first quarter. That is npt even remotely close to a guarantee.

Also, per your linked source, 3rd quarter 2014 had a GDP growth of 5.2%. Lieing with statistics is no better than outright lieing, so do not try to compare a projected, quarterly growth to FY growth.
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Nearly all of the projected GDP numbers during Obama were a joke. How many companies is announced millions of dollars in investements, that didn't get money out of Tarp or the Stimulus? How many companies announced thousand plus dollar bonuses to employees? How many companies made public declarations of actual new growth?

Verizon announced were giving 50 shares of restricted stock to employees, which comes to about $2700. Jan 30, 2019 they will issue a check for half of that, and Jan 30 2020, another check for the other half. Their corporate profit sharing has been stuck at $700/year for over 10 years, even thought they've recorded billions n profits, and have dwindled from 80,000 plus umion employees to 35,000ish union employees. But they have never increased their yearly bonuses. And that's just one I know plenty of people that work for.

So I'd say the optimism has some basis this go round, vs the "summer of recovery" in 2010, and all the other BS that the government did to cause the downturn.
 
jimbuick said:
Democrats would use the exact same response about Trump denying Russia claims.

Pot, meet kettle.
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If there's so much evidence, why hasn't any of the deep state Trump haters leaked any yet? For the last year, anything remotely damning about Trump got leaked. Details of closed meetings, committee investigations, etc. Feinstein has even said on record the havent found any evidence.
 
youngandfree said:
Of course it's being disputed by the side that's being damaged by the truth. Why did the FBI fail to provide documents and testimony for so long to the committee? Those people I named are all involved in the corruption, and they don't want the public to know how deep it goes. Theres a reason they call it the deep state.
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They call it the deep state because it sounds mysterious like the illuminati and morons will fall for it rather than paying attention to what is actually going on. It makes people think they're part of something exciting. It's a fairly simply psychology tactic for manipulation.

Again, your "facts" are not actually based on anything. Using your logic, I can accuse you of being the leader of this deep state. You'll deny that because it's insane and I can then use your denial as "proof." Doesn't seem very constructive.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
They call it the deep state because it sounds mysterious like the illuminati and morons will fall for it rather than paying attention to what is actually going on. It makes people think they're part of something exciting. It's a fairly simply psychology tactic for manipulation.

Again, your "facts" are not actually based on anything. Using your logic, I can accuse you of being the leader of this deep state. You'll deny that because it's insane and I can then use your denial as "proof." Doesn't seem very constructive.
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Your denying of the connections between all of the FBI people that have been demoted and "retiring" doesn't mean they aren't true. No matter how many times you say it. The Strzok/Page text messages indicate McCabe knew about more than has been led on. Bruce Oher's wife worked for Fusion. Bruce Oher got demoted. Strzok got demoted because of his mishandling of information, not because he had an affair. McCabe testified he knew they wouldn't have gotten the warrant without the dossier, and 1 week before they release it, he decides he's hanging it up. Sure thing, no connections here.
 
youngandfree said:
If there's so much evidence, why hasn't any of the deep state Trump haters leaked any yet? For the last year, anything remotely damning about Trump got leaked. Details of closed meetings, committee investigations, etc. Feinstein has even said on record the havent found any evidence.
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1) because the deep state doesn't exist along with Santa and unicorns. 2) How do you know everything has been leaked? Your assumption is that it all has been leaked already, yet the investigation is still ongoing and bigger items would not be shared with many. It's funny that you're pissed that things get leaked (which they do by both sides, but we're apparently not talking about that), but also praise the leaks as some sort of weird justification of Trump's innocence.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
1) because the deep state doesn't exist along with Santa and unicorns. 2) How do you know everything has been leaked? Your assumption is that it all has been leaked already, yet the investigation is still ongoing and bigger items would not be shared with many. It's funny that you're pissed that things get leaked (which they do by both sides, but we're apparently not talking about that), but also praise the leaks as some sort of weird justification of Trump's innocence.
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Your badge of truth seeker sure is flimsy, but that's not surprising.
 
youngandfree said:
Your denying of the connections between all of the FBI people that have been demoted and "retiring" doesn't mean they aren't true. No matter how many times you say it. The Strzok/Page text messages indicate McCabe knew about more than has been led on. Bruce Oher's wife worked for Fusion. Bruce Oher got demoted. Strzok got demoted because of his mishandling of information, not because he had an affair. McCabe testified he knew they wouldn't have gotten the warrant without the dossier, and 1 week before they release it, he decides he's hanging it up. Sure thing, no connections here.
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If we're going to be allowed to make **** up in this debate, can I include dragons? Read this next sentence very slowly and maybe have somebody help you. I am not saying they are all innocent! Again, as I continue to repeat myself, they may very well all be guilty of corruption as well and should be investigated if there is evidence. The Trump administration and family (since Jr can't keep his damn mouth shut) should also continue to be investigated and those that are proven guilty should be punished. You're saying the Democrats involved are all guilty when you've only seen glimpses of cherry-picked evidence and ignore anything that proves you wrong like Strzok wanting to actually go after Hillary again based on new evidence.

I don't know how else to explain it without flashcards, but you say everybody is guilty because you saw it on the interwebs. I say, hold up, you need actual evidence and trials. They might all be guilty, Democrats and Republicans. We don't know yet!
 
With the current congressional structure and 2 party dominance, I wonder what electing a Libertarian president would even do. Dems and Repubs would still block what didn’t fit their agenda. A Lib prez would appoint a Lib cabinet, but it would be an uphill battle I think to wrestle power away from the 2 headed snake.

But...it would be a start!!!!
 
youngandfree said:
Your denying of the connections between all of the FBI people that have been demoted and "retiring" doesn't mean they aren't true. No matter how many times you say it. The Strzok/Page text messages indicate McCabe knew about more than has been led on. Bruce Oher's wife worked for Fusion. Bruce Oher got demoted. Strzok got demoted because of his mishandling of information, not because he had an affair. McCabe testified he knew they wouldn't have gotten the warrant without the dossier, and 1 week before they release it, he decides he's hanging it up. Sure thing, no connections here.
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You're linking a bunch of a circumstantial evidence as concrete proof but ignoring all the Trump Russia circumstantial evidence and dismissing as hogwash.

Also - Gary Johnson is a moron but 5% allows third party to get access to federal campaign funding. That's important. And a decent candidate would like surface if federal funding was secured.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
The memo claims McCabe testified that, but it's already been challenged. Let's get one thing straight. These are all he said, she said hearsay bull**** and you're only accepting arguments that bash Democrats and ignoring the same exact crap that Republicans are pulling. Get the **** off your pedestal about "If you can't get upset at that corruption"! I am the only one saying (repeatedly) that both parties are pulling corrupt **** and need to be punished.
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Who challenged that McCabe testified? Why did the committee have to threaten subpoenas to finally get the FBI material and testimony because the FBI officials stalled?
 
Woody said:
You're linking a bunch of a circumstantial evidence as concrete proof but ignoring all the Trump Russia circumstantial evidence and dismissing as hogwash.

Also - Gary Johnson is a moron but 5% allows third party to get access to federal campaign funding. That's important. And a decent candidate would like surface if federal funding was secured.
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What circumstantial evidence is there that hasn't already been disproven? Manafort is disproven, they got him on an old financial law. Carter Page, got him on a process crime. Don Jr? Nothing
 
Also, the memo kinda supports the Russia investigation, no?
You have to show the wiretap is producing intelligence and being productive in order to renew it. And republicans have been screaming the Russia stuff started with the dossier. Memo shows it started before that.
Imo, just reinforces the idea that Trump doesn't give a **** about anything but Trump
 
Woody said:
You're linking a bunch of a circumstantial evidence as concrete proof but ignoring all the Trump Russia circumstantial evidence and dismissing as hogwash.

Also - Gary Johnson is a moron but 5% allows third party to get access to federal campaign funding. That's important. And a decent candidate would like surface if federal funding was secured.
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That is what I was voting for. It's too bad more people weren't willing to vote for the future last go around. Maybe someday they will get a shot at winning elections.
 
youngandfree said:
Based on you claiming the info in the memo isn't true and your constant attacks on anyone pointing out the corruption of the higher ups that colluded to cover it all up.
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I never said it isn't true. First, it's a ****ing memo and you're treating it like Moses just walked down the ****ing mountain with it. I am saying Nunes has done some highly shady moves associated with this memo, including being caught in lies on where he got information from. He's also part of a committee and took it upon himself to act alone by making changes to something after the committee voted on a draft. So I'm saying there are still a lot of unanswered questions there and it may all be true or it may all be false or likely it will be somewhere in the middle.

My attacks on anybody pointing out corruption is the same. Do you have evidence or is this just your opinion based on what you've read or heard online? If you don't have evidence, then stop presenting it like it's gospel or be prepared to be called out.

Again, the only one wanting both sides to be investigated and punishment handed out no matter what their party is.
 
youngandfree said:
Nearly all of the projected GDP numbers during Obama were a joke. How many companies is announced millions of dollars in investements, that didn't get money out of Tarp or the Stimulus? How many companies announced thousand plus dollar bonuses to employees? How many companies made public declarations of actual new growth?

Verizon announced were giving 50 shares of restricted stock to employees, which comes to about $2700. Jan 30, 2019 they will issue a check for half of that, and Jan 30 2020, another check for the other half. Their corporate profit sharing has been stuck at $700/year for over 10 years, even thought they've recorded billions n profits, and have dwindled from 80,000 plus umion employees to 35,000ish union employees. But they have never increased their yearly bonuses. And that's just one I know plenty of people that work for.

So I'd say the optimism has some basis this go round, vs the "summer of recovery" in 2010, and all the other BS that the government did to cause the downturn.
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Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. That is the thing about projections. Again, though, comparing FY growth to quarterly projections shows either a complete misunderstanding of statistical comparison, or a complete lack of integrity.

If you want to talk about quarterly growth, then you need to compare it to quarterly growth. How was Trump's FY growth last year compared to the Obama admin? What is Trump's best quarter vs. Obama's best quarter? What about their worst quarters?

Those are valid comparisons. Yours was just an attempt to paint your preference in a better light by skewing the comparison in your favor.
 
Woody said:
Also, the memo kinda supports the Russia investigation, no?
You have to show the wiretap is producing intelligence and being productive in order to renew it. And republicans have been screaming the Russia stuff started with the dossier. Memo shows it started before that.
Imo, just reinforces the idea that Trump doesn't give a **** about anything but Trump
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It does. It also supports part of the dossier, which actually has still not been disproved. They decided to attack who funded it rather than what was actually found. Republicans also lost their minds less than a month ago when Feinstein released that information, but now are all in favor of releasing things lol
 
Woody said:
No American is going to pick strawberries in the heat for 15 hours a day for $7.25 or less. Hell, Americans want $15 for working in an air conditioned fast food restaurant lol. Illegal immigrants are a huge part of the economy. Ask Alabama.

I have seen no data that says illegal immigrants commit violent crimes at a higher rate than citizens. A person isn't a rapist or murder because they're an illegal immigrant. They're just a piece of **** human being.
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I just read this...looks like you are calling illegal immigrants a piece of **** human being...damn, man!!!

that is pretty harsh!!!
 
jimbuick said:
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. That is the thing about projections. Again, though, comparing FY growth to quarterly projections shows either a complete misunderstanding of statistical comparison, or a complete lack of integrity.

If you want to talk about quarterly growth, then you need to compare it to quarterly growth. How was Trump's FY growth last year compared to the Obama admin? What is Trump's best quarter vs. Obama's best quarter? What about their worst quarters?

Those are valid comparisons. Yours was just an attempt to paint your preference in a better light by skewing the comparison in your favor.
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I'm not sure where your getting I compared FY growth to quarterly.
 
youngandfree said:
gdp growth for the first quarter is going to be 5+, when it never saw more than 3 for the last 8 years?
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Right here is where you made that comparison. I guess it was so long ago you have already forgotten.

There really are two options here.

1.) You were comparing the projected first quarter to FY growth under Obama.

2.) You are ignorant of quarterly GDP numbers under Obama and just made up a number that sounded good to you.
 
jimbuick said:
Right here is where you made that comparison. I guess it was so long ago you have already forgotten.

There really are two options here.

1.) You were comparing the projected first quarter to FY growth under Obama.

2.) You are ignorant of quarterly GDP numbers under Obama and just made up a number that sounded good to you.
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To get an average of less than 3, mathematically that means he didn't have any quarters at 5. Which history shows he didnt, so it's not something I'm just making up.

ETA correction. Obama had 1 quarter at 5. Yippee.
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youngandfree said:
To get an average of less than 3, mathematically that means he didn't have any quarters at 5. Which history shows he didnt, so it's not something I'm just making up.
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2 things here.

1. You ignored everything I said, apparently.

2. You are wrong. Did you even read your own link? 3rd quarter of 2014 saw growth at 5.2 (the highest since '09), it is right there for you to read in the link you posted. Was Obama not in office in 2014?
 
From your link: "if the forecast holds, it would be the best quarter since the Great Recession ended in 2009. The previous highest was third quarter of 2014, which hit 5.2 percent."
 
jimbuick said:
Not from me, haven't read it yet. Still need to finish the SOTU speech too. Hopefully, I can find one without all of the pauses for applause.
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I watched the sotu speech, [laid up after surgery]...haven't seen the memo just heard 'parts'. from what I've heard it just looks like more of the same, until criminal charges are filed it's just talk, imo.
 
BennyMagoo79 said:
Do you really think Trump is the brainchild of economic policies facilitating GDP growth?
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Hardly, he's just the guy that got elected to implement them, since the last guy didnt. It's pretty clear with Obama's track record, his policies obviously didn't help the economy. See my previous post referring to the many companies giving out bonuses and new investments that haven't happened in the previous administration.
 
youngandfree said:
Hardly, he's just the guy that got elected to implement them, since the last guy didnt. It's pretty clear with Obama's track record, his policies obviously didn't help the economy. See my previous post referring to the many companies giving out bonuses and new investments that haven't happened in the previous administration.
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Obama's goal was for government to do more things for more people....kind of hard to cut taxes while expanding government.

trump is more business growth and expansion oriented....both were/are very willing to spend our tax dollars to meet goals.

one day we will have a president who is forced to cut spending, this is when the shyt hits the fan....
 
thebigt said:
I know this because I know where you stand...but it certainly could have been interpreted that way.
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Yeah you're right. I went back and re-read it and see whatcha mean! I've been working on my house all day so kinda skimmed it. My bad
 
youngandfree said:
Hardly, he's just the guy that got elected to implement them, since the last guy didnt. It's pretty clear with Obama's track record, his policies obviously didn't help the economy. See my previous post referring to the many companies giving out bonuses and new investments that haven't happened in the previous administration.
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You were proven wrong and chose to ignore a request to explain what exactly you were talking about. Now you're still going on based on a lie and adding more lies about companies not giving bonuses under Obama. You were bragging about Trump hitting a +5% GDP quarterly increase and then were clearly shown that it also occurred under Obama. The only obvious thing is your complete lack of honesty.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
You were proven wrong and chose to ignore a request to explain what exactly you were talking about. Now you're still going on based on a lie and adding more lies about companies not giving bonuses under Obama. You were bragging about Trump hitting a +5% GDP quarterly increase and then were clearly shown that it also occurred under Obama. The only obvious thing is your complete lack of honesty.
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Which companies gave bonuses then? How many reports of company layoffs were there? How many companies move their headquarters overseas to avoid the high tax rates? How many companies took hundreds of millions of dollars from the Stimulus package only to go belly up? Solyndra?

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youngandfree said:
Hardly, he's just the guy that got elected to implement them, since the last guy didnt. It's pretty clear with Obama's track record, his policies obviously didn't help the economy. See my previous post referring to the many companies giving out bonuses and new investments that haven't happened in the previous administration.
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To be fair though, your US GDP growth is consistent with a rise in global demand thanks to global economic recovery. We are now seeing a 4% rise in Global GDP.

And regarding Obama, as a statesman, he is in a completely different class to Trump, who has proven to be an imbecile.

Regardless of which side of the political spectrum the you guys decide upon in the future, I really hope you find someone else to represent you.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
You were proven wrong and chose to ignore a request to explain what exactly you were talking about. Now you're still going on based on a lie and adding more lies about companies not giving bonuses under Obama. You were bragging about Trump hitting a +5% GDP quarterly increase and then were clearly shown that it also occurred under Obama. The only obvious thing is your complete lack of honesty.
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I also clearly posted a correction. But you only see things to attack people for. Misfit would be proud that you have taken up his mantle of getting but hurt in this thread.
 
BennyMagoo79 said:
To be fair though, your US GDP growth is consistent with a rise in global demand thanks to global economic recovery. We are now seeing a 4% rise in Global GDP.

And regarding Obama, as a statesman, he is in a completely different class to Trump, who has proven to be an imbecile.

Regardless of which side of the political spectrum the you guys decide upon in the future, I really hope you find someone else to represent you.
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You're right, Obama went out of his way to run down the US on the world stage. Starting with his Cairo speech.
 
youngandfree said:
Which companies gave bonuses then? How many reports of company layoffs were there? How many companies move their headquarters overseas to avoid the high tax rates? How many companies took hundreds of millions of dollars from the Stimulus package only to go belly up? Solyndra?

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Why is anybody going to take the time to answer your questions if you don't believe in facts. You are the one who paraded around the lie about the GDP yesterday and got caught in that lie. You could have easily owned up to it as just having bad intel or even misunderstanding the article, but you chose to lay low for less than 24 hours before trying to keep pretending something was true when you were shown with basic facts that you were indeed wrong. That is when this became you straight up lying and now throwing out silly questions to try and distract from your lying.

Bonuses? Mine did. Reports of layoffs? No idea, but layoffs are continuing. Not really news. Companies going overseas? High tax rates is not the only reason that companies do this, including the companies owned by the very person that you want to give credit to all of this for. Companies going belly up after a stimulus package? No idea and I'm completely against stimulus packages. They didn't begin under Obama. The auto industry bailout began with Bush and I think it's bull****.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
Why is anybody going to take the time to answer your questions if you don't believe in facts. You are the one who paraded around the lie about the GDP yesterday and got caught in that lie. You could have easily owned up to it as just having bad intel or even misunderstanding the article, but you chose to lay low for less than 24 hours before trying to keep pretending something was true when you were shown with basic facts that you were indeed wrong. That is when this became you straight up lying and now throwing out silly questions to try and distract from your lying.

Bonuses? Mine did. Reports of layoffs? No idea, but layoffs are continuing. Not really news. Companies going overseas? High tax rates is not the only reason that companies do this, including the companies owned by the very person that you want to give credit to all of this for. Companies going belly up after a stimulus package? No idea and I'm completely against stimulus packages. They didn't begin under Obama. The auto industry bailout began with Bush and I think it's bull****.
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See, all you're good for is personal attacks. Hundreds of pages worth. The auto bailout started in 2009. So if you want to put that on Bush for the 20 days he was in office, whatever. You don't know how many companies went belly up, how can you make a "factual argument"?
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