Donald Trump running for president

Ari Gold said:
Perhaps. Work, in general, means performing a service in exchange for something of value. I am mostly talking about hourly, part time jobs. I have a good friend in particular who owns a small business and has trouble finding reliable part time help doing various labor tasks because many of the people who call him want cash under the table so it's not reported anywhere as income and they're asking top dollar hourly wages for it. There's zero incentive from a company standpoint to pay someone above average hourly wages and not be able to deduct that payment as an expense on their corporate taxes.

And for the record, yes, several of the people he's tried working with are on public assistance.

I think it's fairly common knowledge that someone with a full time job (presumably with benefits) is not going to quit that job to go on welfare. I'm talking hourly jobs that don't require any form of higher education.
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I can see that. I just think a lot of people have this fantasy of people running around, driving Caddies and smoking dope all day long while on welfare.

I think that is probably very few of the total. Most people really need that assistance for one reason or another.

Have you priced childcare recently? It's absolutely ridiculous.
 
Misfit28 said:
And as usual, screw all the people that it helped, right? Some people who were never able to get insurance before got coverage. God forbid.
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Sure because not having insurance is illegal punishable by the IRS, ROFL!!!!!!!
 
ax1 said:
Sure because not having insurance is illegal punishable by the IRS, ROFL!!!!!!!
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I have not confirmed yet, but someone told me a few weeks ago that the IRS will not be enforcing the individual mandate for tax year 2017. That would be huge for me, as I would probably drop the ridiculously expensive horrible plan I have and only carry some cheaper non-ACA compliant emergency only plan.
 
Misfit28 said:
I can see that. I just think a lot of people have this fantasy of people running around, driving Caddies and smoking dope all day long while on welfare.

I think that is probably very few of the total. Most people really need that assistance for one reason or another.

Have you priced childcare recently? It's absolutely ridiculous.
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I've known more than a handful of hardcore drug dealers over the years on public assistance...I have a lot of stories it's really bad....not saying mostly bad but bad.
 
Misfit28 said:
I can see that. I just think a lot of people have this fantasy of people running around, driving Caddies and smoking dope all day long while on welfare.

I think that is probably very few of the total. Most people really need that assistance for one reason or another.

Have you priced childcare recently? It's absolutely ridiculous.
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Jut the other week my tanning salon owner told me how many people go to her business with nice cars on public assistance....she said they all pull up in really, really nice cars lol
 
Misfit28 said:
Like I said, it exists but it isn't the norm.
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You should move to NY you will change your mind.

This local gas station just got popped last year ALOT of people were exchanging their food stamps for a cut for beer, cigarettes and money to buy drugs.
 
Ari Gold said:
I have not confirmed yet, but someone told me a few weeks ago that the IRS will not be enforcing the individual mandate for tax year 2017. That would be huge for me, as I would probably drop the ridiculously expensive horrible plan I have and only carry some cheaper non-ACA compliant emergency only plan.
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I agree that the penalty for not having insurance is crazy. I think that was a deal with the insurance companies, right?
 
Ari Gold said:
I have not confirmed yet, but someone told me a few weeks ago that the IRS will not be enforcing the individual mandate for tax year 2017. That would be huge for me, as I would probably drop the ridiculously expensive horrible plan I have and only carry some cheaper non-ACA compliant emergency only plan.
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That may had to do with Dump's executive order eliminating the mandate...I think.

A big plus for personal freedom and liberty.
 
ax1 said:
You should move to NY you will change your mind.

This local gas station just got popped last year ALOT of people were exchanging their food stamps for a cut for beer, cigarettes and money to buy drugs.
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But that was the fault of the gas station, right?
 
ax1 said:
You should move to NY you will change your mind.

This local gas station just got popped last year ALOT of people were exchanging their food stamps for a cut for beer, cigarettes and money to buy drugs.
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And no thanks about moving to NY ;). I'm fine out in the country :D
 
Misfit28 said:
I agree that the penalty for not having insurance is crazy. I think that was a deal with the insurance companies, right?
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They wrote the bill of course Obamacare was a business move for Obama's lobby, nothing to do with actually helping people. Remember John Gruber?
 
Misfit28 said:
I can see that. I just think a lot of people have this fantasy of people running around, driving Caddies and smoking dope all day long while on welfare.

I think that is probably very few of the total. Most people really need that assistance for one reason or another.

Have you priced childcare recently? It's absolutely ridiculous.
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I've posted in the past about watching a lady in check out, take items out of her basket because she didn't have enough money on her EBT card, we're talking about $15 worth of stuff, and walk out and get into a newer Lexus with 20" chrome wheels. The whole time she was on her IPhone plus yakking while in line.

So some do, but many are happy in their section 8 housing waiting on their gubmit check instead of working. I go to people's house every single day, sometimes 5 per day. Good neighborhoods to bad ones. Barboursville, WV to Baltimore and Norfolk, VA. For 18 years. I've seen how people live. I've been in a place that was a **** hole neighborhood with row houses. The that guy opened the door was dressed nice in a collared shirt and sweater. His place was immaculate, compared to all the others I had been to there. Neat, no clutter, smelled nice, nice furniture. But he respected himself enought to take care of his place, even if it was a low income area. Walking into a person's home can tell you a lot about them.
 
Misfit28 said:
Yeah, did she keep a log of them? ;)
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Lol!

Anyways these are things that can be reformed without eliminating welfare as a whole if I were to compromise.

Instead of food stamps we can have food pantries in the city and delivered by drone in the country side. Decent food, no cookies and filthy garbage.
 
Misfit28 said:
I agree that the penalty for not having insurance is crazy. I think that was a deal with the insurance companies, right?
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I'm not sure to be honest. It was my understanding that the penalty for not being insured went directly into the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services fund to pay towards the subsidies being given.

ACA in its current state absolutely requires premium payments from otherwise healthy people to cover the claims for those who use their plans frequently. But this is a topic for a whole 'nother dedicated thread.
 
Misfit28 said:
And no thanks about moving to NY ;). I'm fine out in the country :D
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This liberal state has 10 year corporate tax free zones where businesses are prospering and people get jobs....unfortunately they are bringing is thousands of asians into NY for cheaper labor, Albany is turning into China. It's helping NY's though as well.
 
Ari Gold said:
I'm not sure to be honest. It was my understanding that the penalty for not being insured went directly into the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services fund to pay towards the subsidies being given.

ACA in its current state absolutely requires premium payments from otherwise healthy people to cover the claims for those who use their plans frequently. But this is a topic for a whole 'nother dedicated thread.
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The penalties may have went somewhere else, but it was supposed to create the "incentive" to buy the insurance, which is why they all were more than happy to go along. Then reality set in, and they are all pulling out of the marketplace.
 
youngandfree said:
The penalties may have went somewhere else, but it was supposed to create the "incentive" to buy the insurance, which is why they all were more than happy to go along. Then reality set in, and they are all pulling out of the marketplace.
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And therein lies the problem. In my market, Florida Blue (BCBS) is the only carrier in the marketplace. My premiums for a family of 4 on an HMO all deductible plan with a $14,400 deductible costs me almost $1600 a month. That's almost $19,000 a year and we rarely see doctors. And when we do, it's a $114 office visit for my kids pediatrician, a $142 office visit for my wife and I at our primary care physician, and if by some chance we need to go see a specialist it's easily a $200+ office visit. X-ray? $350. The list goes on...

You can explain to me about the insurance "repricing" and all of that stuff all you want, but at the end of the day if you call any one of my doctors and ask what their self-pay prices are, it's roughly the same price that I end up paying them after my insurance "discount". It's crazy.
 
Ari Gold said:
And therein lies the problem. In my market, Florida Blue (BCBS) is the only carrier in the marketplace. My premiums for a family of 4 on an HMO all deductible plan with a $14,400 deductible costs me almost $1600 a month. That's almost $19,000 a year and we rarely see doctors. And when we do, it's a $114 office visit for my kids pediatrician, a $142 office visit for my wife and I at our primary care physician, and if by some chance we need to go see a specialist it's easily a $200+ office visit. X-ray? $350. The list goes on...

You can explain to me about the insurance "repricing" and all of that stuff all you want, but at the end of the day if you call any one of my doctors and ask what their self-pay prices are, it's roughly the same price that I end up paying them after my insurance "discount". It's crazy.
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But the insurance company handles a lot of the processes for you such as sending you the bill for the 100% co-pays making it a much more admirable and friendly consumer experience. You pay for quality services, it's worth it :)
 
ax1 said:
But the insurance company handles a lot of the processes for you such as sending you the bill for the 100% co-pays making it a much more admirable and friendly consumer experience. You pay for quality services, it's worth it :)
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Totally worth it! I enjoy it almost as much as my annual colonoscopy (which, ironically enough - the insurance company bills me for, so it's almost like getting TWICE the enjoyment in just ONE office visit!).
 
youngandfree said:
I told you what her situation was. She went from a 30 hr/week part time position, that Obamacare decreed was a full time position requiring insurance, to 20 hrs /week.

"Some"employers were cutting hours, but not a huge amount.

Sure technically 10 hrs/week isn't a "huge amount", but it was 1/3 of her income. At HCA, based in Tennessee, they did the same to many of their part time employees in non clinical positions. Everyone in registration was in the same boat. They even hired more people to cover the spread of hours they cut from existing employees. Which is supported by the fact that many of the jobs "created" under Obama were government jobs or part time jobs.

How is it not caused by it? The HCA employs thousands of part time employees that weren't provided wit insurance. The new Obamacare mandate says as of today, you have to provide it. So they cut hours below that threshold and reclassified the positions.

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This is the hospital system I'm referring to, it's called HCA.
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Did you know that most western nations have affordable healthcare? What Obama tried to do was implement a similar system to bring down the cost of health care and you guys hated him for it. Sure it was a mess, but he had to make policy amendments when your congress or whatever denied his first attempts to put it into play.

When it comes to a lot of things, the US falls behind and does not look after its people. You guys pay ALOT for even the most basic of health care.

Then what is funny is that you blame Obama again when your wifes WORKPLACE cuts her hours to avoid the added cost of having her. They do that to make more money for themselves but yet you blame Obama for it all.

Blame those who made him compromise on obamacare and screw you all over. Every other western country has affordable healthcare.
 
ax1 said:
Anyways these are things that can be reformed without eliminating welfare as a whole if I were to compromise.
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I think reform on a lot of government programs is exactly what is needed, and was kind of my point behind my whole original post. I'm not against welfare at all and think that we really should take care of our own - as long as they're willing and able to take care of themselves. Once we create a system where it's so easy to get the handouts and no checks and balances to make sure there's no abuse there is bound to be a certain element of abuse.

This is true for most any government example you can think of. Because I know it will get brought up again, I'll use the military as an example. Once a military contract is awarded, it's rarely re-checked or RFP'd out to other contractors in the grand scheme of things. And the contractors know it, so what do they do? Keep raising their prices and the government keeps paying them.. Again, theft is theft no matter how large or small the dollar amount.
 
Jiigzz said:
Did you know that most western nations have affordable healthcare? What Obama tried to do was implement a similar system to bring down the cost of health care and you guys hated him for it. Sure it was a mess, but he had to make policy amendments when your congress or whatever denied his first attempts to put it into play.

When it comes to a lot of things, the US falls behind and does not look after its people. You guys pay ALOT for even the most basic of health care.

Then what is funny is that you blame Obama again when your wifes WORKPLACE cuts her hours to avoid the added cost of having her. They do that to make more money for themselves but yet you blame Obama for it all.

Blame those who made him compromise on obamacare and screw you all over. Every other western country has affordable healthcare.
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And whats the income tax rate for those "Western nations" with "affordable" health care?

Obomo tried to fill the bank accounts of his lobbiests, to think he was trying to give "affordable" health care is a joke.He is nothing but the Fraudster in Chief.

We pay alot of money for health care and its all due to government intervention starting with managed care under Nixon in the '70s when they schemed together to increase the industries profits and stocks. Before that it was fairly easy to get good cheap health care.

Its all about who finances the government, follow the money and you will not want these people implementing policies here.
 
Jiigzz said:
Did you know that most western nations have affordable healthcare? What Obama tried to do was implement a similar system to bring down the cost of health care and you guys hated him for it. Sure it was a mess, but he had to make policy amendments when your congress or whatever denied his first attempts to put it into play.

When it comes to a lot of things, the US falls behind and does not look after its people. You guys pay ALOT for even the most basic of health care.

Then what is funny is that you blame Obama again when your wifes WORKPLACE cuts her hours to avoid the added cost of having her. They do that to make more money for themselves but yet you blame Obama for it all.

Blame those who made him compromise on obamacare and screw you all over. Every other western country has affordable healthcare.
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Exactly.
 
Jiigzz said:
Blame those who made him compromise on obamacare and screw you all over. Every other western country has affordable healthcare.
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Is it affordable when all those authoritarian governments steal that money against their will from their income and you have to pay for it even if you dont want to use it and no way to opt out if they want to finance their own alternative means?
 
Ari Gold said:
I think reform on a lot of government programs is exactly what is needed, and was kind of my point behind my whole original post. I'm not against welfare at all and think that we really should take care of our own - as long as they're willing and able to take care of themselves. Once we create a system where it's so easy to get the handouts and no checks and balances to make sure there's no abuse there is bound to be a certain element of abuse.

This is true for most any government example you can think of. Because I know it will get brought up again, I'll use the military as an example. Once a military contract is awarded, it's rarely re-checked or RFP'd out to other contractors in the grand scheme of things. And the contractors know it, so what do they do? Keep raising their prices and the government keeps paying them.. Again, theft is theft no matter how large or small the dollar amount.
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Totally agreed!
 
Jiigzz said:
Blame those who made him compromise on obamacare and screw you all over.
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How about blame Gruber, Obozo's right hand man, consultant and chief architect of Obozocare...ROFLLLL!!!! People are sooo naive, until they cant afford what they thought they were going to get for free.

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Jiigzz said:
Did you know that most western nations have affordable healthcare? What Obama tried to do was implement a similar system to bring down the cost of health care and you guys hated him for it. Sure it was a mess, but he had to make policy amendments when your congress or whatever denied his first attempts to put it into play.

When it comes to a lot of things, the US falls behind and does not look after its people. You guys pay ALOT for even the most basic of health care.

Then what is funny is that you blame Obama again when your wifes WORKPLACE cuts her hours to avoid the added cost of having her. They do that to make more money for themselves but yet you blame Obama for it all.

Blame those who made him compromise on obamacare and screw you all over. Every other western country has affordable healthcare.
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Again, 94% of all new jobs created under Obama were part time or independent contractor type jobs, because companies didn't want to pay the Obamacare tax.

The problem is the theory that government can force people to change actions by threat of penalty, or tax. Look at the ciggarette tax in NY. They thought if we make a pack of cigarettes cost $10, people will stop smoking. Did it? Nope. The "loosey" cigarette black market grew. Ask Eric Gardner. How about raising the taxes on companies. What has happened the last 2 terms. Companies started moving corporate offices overseas. The government didn't get additional revenue from those tax rates, they lost revenue because companies changed how they operate.
 
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Speaking of more people getting "healthcare" thanks to Obamacare. Why has the mortality rate INCREASED, even when removing all other outside factors, such as drug use, according to CDC?
 
Just to convolute my own post a little bit more... that all being said, it will cost more money for the government to fill new positions to actually perform the checks and balances in all of these departments, which all has to be funded somehow. The question then becomes - do the savings saved from closing leaks more than make up for the salaries and benefits paid to those who are doing the checks and balances? In this case, your military analogy comes into play. If you save a million dollars on one military contract, that pays for a lot of auditors. Catching a few people stealing from the public welfare system doesn't save enough money to make it worthwhile. Lump them all together into some centralized auditing department though and the overall savings could be enormous.
 
ax1 said:
And whats the income tax rate for those "Western nations" with "affordable" health care?

Obomo tried to fill the bank accounts of his lobbiests, to think he was trying to give "affordable" health care is a joke.He is nothing but the Fraudster in Chief.

We pay alot of money for health care and its all due to government intervention starting with managed care under Nixon in the '70s when they schemed together to increase the industries profits and stocks. Before that it was fairly easy to get good cheap health care.

Its all about who finances the government, follow the money and you will not want these people implementing policies here.
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Your healthcare still sucks and noone has a better plan. You guys are so hateful of Obama that you'd believe ANY negative press around him - whether it was logical or not.

I juat read a city in the US stopped a solar farm because they thought it would take away all the sun rays. Seriously. you guys need help

Our median tax bracket is ~20% for earners around 52k. But our minimum wage is ~17.
 
youngandfree said:
Again, 94% of all new jobs created under Obama were part time or independent contractor type jobs, because companies didn't want to pay the Obamacare tax.

The problem is the theory that government can force people to change actions by threat of penalty, or tax. Look at the ciggarette tax in NY. They thought if we make a pack of cigarettes cost $10, people will stop smoking. Did it? Nope. The "loosey" cigarette black market grew. Ask Eric Gardner. How about raising the taxes on companies. What has happened the last 2 terms. Companies started moving corporate offices overseas. The government didn't get additional revenue from those tax rates, they lost revenue because companies changed how they operate.
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We have a cigarette tax here and its cut smoking rates dramatically. We plan to be the first smokefree nation. Packs here are nearly $20 for cheap variants.

ill look into the rest because thats interesting if true
 
Jiigzz said:
Your healthcare still sucks and noone has a better plan. You guys are so hateful of Obama that you'd believe ANY negative press around him - whether it was logical or not.

I juat read a city in the US stopped a solar farm because they thought it would take away all the sun rays. Seriously. you guys need help

Our median tax bracket is ~20% for earners around 52k. But our minimum wage is ~17.
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We have incredibly good health care here, its high quality with very low waiting times. These accusations are insane. I had to have my hip looked at, and other than needing to pay 100% co-pay for my visits, MRI all my care was GREAT! The only thing that sucked was the fact that Obamacare forced me against my will to waste alot of money on insurance I didnt want in the first place.

Obama is a mass murdering genocidalist blood drooling war mongering terrorist piece of shyt. Lock him up.
 
ax1 said:
Is it affordable when all those authoritarian governments steal that money against their will from their income and you have to pay for it even if you dont want to use it and no way to opt out if they want to finance their own alternative means?
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I still blame those that made obama deviate so much from his orginal plan. He had to, because the other party refused to work with him. I blame them
 
ax1 said:
We have incredibly good health care here, its high quality with very low waiting times. These accusations are insane. I had to have my hip looked at, and other than needing to pay 100% co-pay for my visits, MRI all my care was GREAT! The only thing that sucked was the fact that Obamacare forced me against my will to waste alot of money on insurance I didnt want in the first place.

Obama is a mass murdering genocidalist blood drooling war mongering terrorist piece of shyt. Lock him up.
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Poor choice of words sorry, meant the cost of health care sucks.

Obama is no worse than bush, trump or any other president that has been in office since I have been born.

You guys became a superpower off the back of war. Was roosevelt aware of this and declared war on japan and germany for financial gain??? Stay tuned for the next episode of geroegsoros.com

Fun fact: world war two is largely to blame for the conflicts today
 
youngandfree said:
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Speaking of more people getting "healthcare" thanks to Obamacare. Why has the mortality rate INCREASED, even when removing all other outside factors, such as drug use, according to CDC?
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I'll need to dig in a bit more, but couldn't that possibly be due to people who were sick before they got insurance?
 
Jiigzz said:
Poor choice of words sorry, meant the cost of health care sucks.

Obama is no worse than bush, trump or any other president that has been in office since I have been born.

You guys became a superpower off the back of war. Was roosevelt aware of this and declared war on japan and germany for financial gain??? Stay tuned for the next episode of geroegsoros.com
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Yeah we really actually liked Hitler and didn't care he massacred 6 million jews.
 
Jiigzz said:
I still blame those that made obama deviate so much from his orginal plan. He had to, because the other party refused to work with him. I blame them
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Curious (I really can't remember and honestly I'm just being lazy and don't want to Google) - what was the original plan that you think would have worked better? I really think there's a happy medium on fixing Obamacare rather than repealing it. It's a decent concept, just poorly implemented in a lot of aspects. Am I unhappy with the cost of my plan for the services I receive out of it? Absolutely. But I'm not against the notion that there is a solution out there that lowers my cost yet still provides some assistance for those that need it.
 
Jiigzz said:
Our median tax bracket is ~20% for earners around 52k. But our minimum wage is ~17.
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Its really easy to manage a small country that hardly has anybody living there (about half the people in NYC alone in NZ) and no out of control open borders with illegal immigrants flooding in straining your resources and tax payer funded programs isnt it?
 
youngandfree said:
Yeah we really actually liked Hitler and didn't care he massacred 6 million jews.
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Shows your WW2 knowledge. You didnt enter the war off the back of what was happening in Europe. But thanks for trying
 
ax1 said:
Its really easy to manage a small country that hardly has anybody living there (about half the people in NYC alone in NZ) and no out of control open borders with illegal immigrants flooding in straining your resources and tax payer funded programs isnt it?
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You say this as your defence in every aspect. This isnt just NZ. This is every other western country on the planet. Stop using your 'open' borders and population as an excuse.

You guys simply invest in the wrong areas
 
Jiigzz said:
Poor choice of words sorry, meant the cost of health care sucks.

Obama is no worse than bush, trump or any other president that has been in office since I have been born.

You guys became a superpower off the back of war. Was roosevelt aware of this and declared war on japan and germany for financial gain??? Stay tuned for the next episode of geroegsoros.com

Fun fact: world war two is largely to blame for the conflicts today
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Hey, I hate Bush and I didnt vote for Dump, and Dump is slowly making me take a big dump. Rosevelt declared war on Japan before we were ever attacked.

What America needs to cut down on costs is to eliminate what rose it which is government intervention.

You should be able to go to the doctor and pay him cash directly for your treatements. Insurance should have nothing to do with managing health care in any way, its an optionalproduct you purchase and it will be very low cost once you take health care out of insurance. Insurance is just supposed to measure risk and put a cost on that, and people can choose what they want.

Its not really complicated to dramatically bring costs down here, I do agree its expensive but the last thing we need is this government being involved.
 
Jiigzz said:
You say this as your defence in every aspect. This isnt just NZ. This is every other western country on the planet. Stop using your 'open' borders and population as an excuse.

You guys simply invest in the wrong areas
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Those nations can do whatever they want, I want no part of it.
 
ax1 said:
Hey, I hate Bush and I didnt vote for Dump, and Dump is slowly making me take a big dump.

What America needs to cut down on costs is to eliminate what rose it which is government intervention. Rosevelt declared war on Japan before we were ever attacked.

You should be able to go to the doctor and pay him cash directly for your treatements. Insurance should have nothing to do with managing health care in any way, its an optionalproduct you purchase and it will be very low cost once you take health care out of insurance. Insurance is just supposed to measure risk and put a cost on that, and people can choose what they want.

Its not really complicated to dramatically bring costs down here, I do agree its expensive but the last thing we need is this government being involved.
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Until you experience a catastrophic illness or event.
 
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