youngandfree
Well-known member
You insinuated we declared war sole for financial gain.
Second, who says WW2 is largely to blame for today's conflicts?
Donald Trump running for president
- Thread starter LiftWithDonuts
- Start date
You insinuated we declared war sole for financial gain.
Second, who says WW2 is largely to blame for today's conflicts?
ax1
Legend
Lock em all up they all suck.
youngandfree
Well-known member
Invalid Link Removed
Like this guy does. I worked on his Internet when he opened. What's cheaper? Direct access to a primary care Dr for $75/ month, or some stupid Obamacare plan for hundreds of dollars per month, and still have to pay $25 to see the primary care Dr for basic illnes?
ax1
Legend
Thats what you buy insurance for, it will be more widely available and affordable in a free market system and taking "health care" out of insurance which has absolutely nothing to do with the concept of insurance. If you dont want to buy yourself insurance thats the choice an individual chooses to take. And who is to say if you go for help you cant find it?
Jiigzz
Legend
That was a joke lol. But you still became a superpower off the back of it.
when the US and Russians entered an alliance AFTER Hitler betrayed stalin and the war was subsequently won. Whole nations were divided.
Germany was split. Korea was split. Etc etc.
youngandfree
Well-known member
Says the guy in a country that doesn't have much of a military, and doesn't have two nuclear capable countries that have proclaimed their desire to attack and destroy us.
ax1
Legend
I just want to make sure you dont think Im not flexible, Im all for compromising and having some type of programs on a state level (not fed) to help those in needs and supporting clinics for them, etc....Im not too into leaving people out in the cold.
I looked it up yesterday by the way, in 2015 we spent 600 billion dollars on defense spending, and on a 20 trillion dollar deficit its time to end the roman empire before it implodes. Bring our troops home and shut down those hundreds of bases around the globe, its time to end this once and for all.
Misfit28
Well-known member
Yeah, and if it weren't for our past actions they probably wouldn't hate us so much. Obama included.
youngandfree
Well-known member
We won the war and kicked their asses, the way a war should be fought. Our ingenuity and advancement in technology helped that in the military arena. Then we rebuilt what we destroyed during the course of the war. You make it out like the only thing America has contributed to the world is a war machine. I'm pretty sure Edison, Tesla, and Alexander Graham Bell were from the US, and those three guys paved the way for advancement all over the world.
Jiigzz
Legend
Now why do you think they want to destroy you? Vs. why they don't care much about destroying other nations?
Think about that one and get back to me with a better response.
NZ doesn't need much of a military because *shock* we don't go causing trouble like you do LOL
This is where I was going in one of my earlier posts about the individual mandate. I'll more than likely drop out of an Obamacare compliant plan and into a non-compliant catastrophic plan that will help pay in the event of an emergency - hospitilizaton type stuff. For all of my other healthcare related needs it is FAR cheaper for me to pay the doctors directly IF I need to go to them than paying the $1,600 monthly AND ~$100+ when I go see them. A catastrophic non-compliant plan for my family is roughly $300/month so I save $1,300 a month. Granted, the doctor payments I make if I see them are not applied towards any deductible on the catastrophic plan. It may not make sense for some people, but it sure does for my family.
I still need to research if the individual mandate really got executive ordered out of the law.
ax1
Legend
ax1
Legend
It was thinking this although I would check what the current laws are before making decisions.
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
Misfit28
Well-known member
Holy crap that is expensive! I can see why you are not a fan!
I pay less than $325 for family health (full plan), flex spending account, dental and vision combined through my job.
ax1
Legend
Not to make fun of you, but I believe NZ's government would be as much interventionists as the USA or close....but.....
Seriously, its such as tiny country with a low population, I really would have to strategically think over if NZ's military can even take out NYPD. NY's national guard alone without a doubt can wipe NZ.
Again this one is not a shot at your country, I love NZ.
youngandfree
Well-known member
We've been dealing with radical Muslims since the first Barbary war in 1801, as the United States.
Invalid Link Removed
youngandfree
Well-known member
See if there are any local docs doing private memberships like the one I posted earlier.
Misfit28
Well-known member
That sounds like an excellent idea for his situation! Holy crap, I'm still shocked by that price.
Misfit28
Well-known member
The First Barbary war had nothing to do with religion. It was also a financial reason. Read into it beyond Wikipedia
In fact, check out Article 11. It's interesting that Jefferson flat out states,"as the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion, -as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
"Musselmen" refers to Muslims.
Invalid Link Removed
And no, Thomas Jefferson did not declare war on Islam. In fact, the pasha of Tripoli declared war for non-payment of tribute.
youngandfree
Well-known member
The First Barbary war had nothing to do with religion. It was also a financial reason. Read into it beyond Wikipedia
In fact, check out Article 11. It's interesting that Jefferson flat out states,"as the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion, -as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
"Musselmen" refers to Muslims.
Invalid Link Removed
Were the barbary pirates muslim, and did they target Christian nations? Of course the peace treaty has a bunch of niceties in it, its called we won, straighten up and we will play nice in the future.
Jiigzz
Legend
For those who like a bit of history.
World War Two saw the Axis nations take large amounts of land. Land that after the war, would have to be 'returned' to the previous owners or divided between victor countries.
Japan held large masses of land in Asia both before the war and during the war during its conquests. That includes China (second sino-Japanese war that 'merged' with the pacific theatre of war after japan attacked pearl harbour), Guam, East Timor, Malaysia etc but also Vietnam & Korea (important for future conflicts).
Vietnam (at the time under French rule) was invaded by Japanese forces, which were 'allowed' to be stationed there as France had been defeated by Germany. Toward the end of the war, the Japanese overthrew French rule out of fear (once the Japanese realised they were losing too much ground in the pacific and their mainland would soon be invaded). Ho Chi Minh rose up to reclaim Vietnam, and the French established forces to fight back which led to the first Indochina war and subsequently the second Indochina war (or "Vietnam War").
At the same time, Japan held territory in Korea from 1910 until the conclusion of World War Two, after which the Soviets claimed the North and the US the South.
It is no secret that World War Two led directly into the Cold War because of the Allied victory across ALOT of territory that was ripe for the taking. The USSR started claiming land in the east, and the US led a global containment program to limit the USSR influence. A lot of the minor conflicts between world war 2 and now (there have been hundreds) have been influenced by the Soviets and US involvement due to their desire to ensure the other does not gain too much traction.
Then enter the Iraqi and conflicts in Afghanistan and Syria - all of which have ties to the Cold War which resulted directly from World War Twos end.
World War Two saw the Axis nations take large amounts of land. Land that after the war, would have to be 'returned' to the previous owners or divided between victor countries.
Japan held large masses of land in Asia both before the war and during the war during its conquests. That includes China (second sino-Japanese war that 'merged' with the pacific theatre of war after japan attacked pearl harbour), Guam, East Timor, Malaysia etc but also Vietnam & Korea (important for future conflicts).
Vietnam (at the time under French rule) was invaded by Japanese forces, which were 'allowed' to be stationed there as France had been defeated by Germany. Toward the end of the war, the Japanese overthrew French rule out of fear (once the Japanese realised they were losing too much ground in the pacific and their mainland would soon be invaded). Ho Chi Minh rose up to reclaim Vietnam, and the French established forces to fight back which led to the first Indochina war and subsequently the second Indochina war (or "Vietnam War").
At the same time, Japan held territory in Korea from 1910 until the conclusion of World War Two, after which the Soviets claimed the North and the US the South.
It is no secret that World War Two led directly into the Cold War because of the Allied victory across ALOT of territory that was ripe for the taking. The USSR started claiming land in the east, and the US led a global containment program to limit the USSR influence. A lot of the minor conflicts between world war 2 and now (there have been hundreds) have been influenced by the Soviets and US involvement due to their desire to ensure the other does not gain too much traction.
Then enter the Iraqi and conflicts in Afghanistan and Syria - all of which have ties to the Cold War which resulted directly from World War Twos end.
Yeah, the individual plans and the group plans are really significantly different after Obamacare rolled out. Lots of people with jobs that include benefits really don't realize what individuals are paying these days. Before Obamacare, this plan cost me $475'ish a month. Now it's $1,600 for the same exact plan. I don't really care if a Democrat or a Republican fixed it, I just want (need) it fixed. Paying the premium each month is going to give me a heart attack..and if I survive that heart attack, I'll have another heart attack when I get the hospital bill from the first heart attack.
There are, but that doesn't really solve the problem of the mandate of having to pay for my health insurance plan otherwise I get penalized on my taxes. I'm going to go read those links that were posted a few posts ago and try to figure out if that mandate is gone for this year.
But do you want to hear something else that makes it even funnier? It's cheaper for me to not have insurance and just pay the penalty for not having it then having it at all. I just have a big problem with being taxed because I don't have something that I don't want to have.
Jiigzz
Legend
So this shows how much of you know about what Obama intended for Obamacare orginally:
Here was his original proposal:
The above quote, IMO, demonstrates American stupidity. Americans denying subsidized healthcare because "dat dere big bad government". Lawd. On top of an American city stopping Solar Farms out of fear of sucking up all the sunlight, this is beyond ridiculous. But wait, it gets better.
Again, part of the original plan:
And further:
How it would have affected budgets:
Yet again, the idiocy of the people created issues that didn't exist:
And then came the problems - not from Obama, but your house of representatives:
Obama originally intended that only those who wanted it would get it, and provided LOTS of options for those who didn't. That was overridden by the House of Representatives and ultimately F'd up.
So no, I don't blame Obama for what it ended up becoming - I blame those who altered it because they hated Obama.
Here was his original proposal:
The above quote, IMO, demonstrates American stupidity. Americans denying subsidized healthcare because "dat dere big bad government". Lawd. On top of an American city stopping Solar Farms out of fear of sucking up all the sunlight, this is beyond ridiculous. But wait, it gets better.
Again, part of the original plan:
And further:
How it would have affected budgets:
Yet again, the idiocy of the people created issues that didn't exist:
And then came the problems - not from Obama, but your house of representatives:
Obama originally intended that only those who wanted it would get it, and provided LOTS of options for those who didn't. That was overridden by the House of Representatives and ultimately F'd up.
So no, I don't blame Obama for what it ended up becoming - I blame those who altered it because they hated Obama.
While this looks mostly correct, I would beg to differ that they altered it because they "hated Obama". Lobbyists had a lot to do with this, as did the question of where the heck all of this magic subsidy money was going to come from that the government is giving people on ACA plans. Requiring individuals to buy insurance kept a pool of healthy people paying into the insurance companies to offset many of the expenses the insurance companies paid out as claims to unhealthy policy holders.
This is the mass generalized equivalent to typical older medically underwritten plans. If you had health issues, you were grouped into a riskier, more expensive cost because the insurance company needed to cover their expenses. Now, since there's no underwriting and everyone is grouped equally (age wise only), someone's got to cover the costs. So younger healthier people pay more.
I won't get into a debate of the fact that insurance companies are filthy rich, and CEOs are taking home record salaries since ACA.
ax1
Legend
Im worried about radical corporate big banker Republicrats and Demicans, they are far worse and a bigger threat to our freedoms and liberties than bearded people hiding in caves, lol
I wish I could say that was a satire article, but sadly this really did happen. Not our country's finest hour.
Misfit28
Well-known member
Lmao, indeed!
ax1
Legend
It was a big government corporate fascist ponzi scheme cluterfuq from the very beginning day 1 before a single change was made trying to increase the solutions with the very problems that created it which is government managed care.
youngandfree
Well-known member
The House and Senate were both controlled by democrats by the way.
Thanks for reminding us of his BS campaign promises. Remember "if you like your plan, if you like your doc, you can keep them"? How about its going to save $2500 for each family. Keep in mind, the entire plan was designed by Gruber, and passed entirely by democrats, in the middle of the night over christmas. Because they had to sway one more vote, by granting the only private school loans to banks in Nebraska, to get his vote. Corn husker kickback ring a bell?
Jiigzz
Legend
I'll do more reading
Please throw links my way - i'm curious to know more. Try and keep the links 'neutral' as much as possible if you provide any. Read too many things on Quora from Obamabunnies, but I want something a little more unbiased toward him
Misfit28
Well-known member
Speaking of BS campaign promises, how about all the stuff Trump just can't seem to get done in his first 100 days like he promised?
So I think by now everyone here knows that I'm not a fan of Obamacare in its current state. However, I will give you a real live example of this particular piece of the campaign promise.
The first year that ACA was launched, insurance companies were a disaster and no one knew their heads from their asses. Insurance companies sent out plan cancellation notices to people because they WANTED to get people like me out of their old, cheaper plans and into the ACA plans. It was not directly Obama's fault that some people's plans were canceled or doctors left the networks that their plans covered. The carriers chose to end certain plans and some doctors decided to exit out of accepting certain plans. The law, in my opinion, was not written to prevent this from happening and it should have been since it was a charter point of his campaign promises.
In my particular case, the first year that ACA came out - Blue Cross canceled the plan that I had and told me that I needed to roll into an ACA plan (and conveniently offered me their "recommended (expensive) choice" that they would automatically roll me into if I didn't get back to them and tell them otherwise). It was only after significant backlash that first year that they decided to keep my old plan around for a bit longer which bought me a little more time. But like all other good things, that came to an end later and here we are today.
ax1
Legend
This is exactly the reason people opposed it. You hate EVERYTHING the government intervenes in. You say its to do with freedom, but my government is involved in healthcare and guess where we sit in relation to the US in freedom polls
Ahhh freedom, that would be a great idea!
Speaking of BS campaign promises, how about all the stuff Trump just can't seem to get done in his first 100 days like he promised?
It's the same as all of the stuff that Hillary promised she would get done in office. It happens every election - they promise the people the world and then don't deliver half of it, and change their mind on most of the other half. All politicians are scumbags in this respect. People just don't learn from past mistakes, unfortunately. No matter the party affiliation.
Misfit28
Well-known member
You are definitely right about that!
I mostly just sit back and laugh when I see CNN attacking Trump and Fox News kissing his ass. It's irony at its' finest. For the past 8 years, it's been CNN kissing Obama's ass and Fox News attacking him. Everything in politics comes full circle. The full truth usually lies somewhere on either side of dead center.
ax1
Legend
I'm in the phone so I can only post short now with no links but I remember one of the architects Ezikiel Emmanuel (Roms brother) stating Obamacare was designed to collapse from the beginning in order to take the next phase of a complete government takeover.
youngandfree
Well-known member
They cancelled them because of the requirements in the law that said all the plans must be "equal to or better than the Obama exchange plans". The minimums on those plans covered EVERYTHING. As a male do you need prenatal care coverage, as an example. The insurance companies were forced to provide "a minimum coverage", and that's why they started cancelling them, because the didn't meet the obamacaw standard. Which is why many of the plans' rates inarrated dramatically. Ultimately, it was designed from the get go to implode, and force people to beg the government for single payer insurance. The dems thought there's no way they were going to lose control of Washington, and never planned on Obamacare going this far. The thought we'd be talking about complete government run healthcare by now.
Aleksandar37
Well-known member
Beat me to it. Watch out because he'll blame Obama for the nazi thing lol
That gets a bit conspiracy theory, but I'm always open to seeing the links whenever you can post them. I'm not going to say I believe in conspiracy theory every time I see it, but there's been cases I've looked at where it was very suspect. I've heard this theory before as well (designed to implode, by the time it does there will be so many people using it that we'd be forced to have the government come to the rescue and "save" health insurance by moving to single payer).
Other times, conspiracy theory gets to be a bit wild & crazy.
Nah. Everyone knows that the Nazi's were Bush's fault.
ax1
Legend
I dunno he said it himself I saw the interview.
youngandfree
Well-known member
Invalid Link Removed
Just look at the economics of the plan and how they've played out. Not the bumper sticker platitudes of it. They tried to hoodwink states into taking the "newly insured", which were enrolled in Medicaid, and taking the free federalone for the first couple years. But then the feds pull out of the funding and the states are left holding the bag. Luckily the Virginia GA didn't fall for it. Yet the Dems in the state house keep pushing for "expanding Medicaid, the feds are paying for it." This year our state has a budget shortfall, and our Constitution says there must be a balanced budget. Just think if our medicaid costs would have been higher because we took the fed's bait.
Do a bit of research on California's MediCAL program. It's one of the (many) reasons that state is broke despite taxing the ever loving crap out of its' residents.
It seems to stem from this 2014 article he wrote: Invalid Link Removed
And now that he's an advisor to the current administration on the repeal/replace/overhaul/whatever they're trying to do, he was interviewed by Fox News. I can certainly see it playing out like you outlined, though it remains to be seen if it makes it that far. The carriers appear to just be exiting the ACA marketplace rather than imploding - but time will certainly tell.