youngandfree
Well-known member
They are still paying millions more in taxes than you are, even with a tax cut. I guess you could give more to a church to offset the child deduction that goes away.
Donald Trump running for president
- Thread starter LiftWithDonuts
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They are still paying millions more in taxes than you are, even with a tax cut. I guess you could give more to a church to offset the child deduction that goes away.
Misfit28
Well-known member
They are still paying millions more in taxes than you are, even with a tax cut. I guess you could give more to a church to offset the child deduction that goes away.
No thanks. I give to other causes. Besides I've only got one child, so it's not a huge benefit.
Churches get enough tax free money as it is. If we taxed churches, I'll bet we could make a pretty good dent in the deficit.
Of course they pay millions more, because they MAKE millions more. Any more logical fallacies?
And for the record, I actually don't mind paying taxes if it goes to help people instead of expanding the military and killing innocent people around the world. However, we all know this hasn't and won't be the way the money is spent.
thebigt
Legend
lol...I lived thru the 80's, and trust me I would MUCH, MUCH, rather be a working man in the 80's under reaganomics than a working man in the Obama years....
the reality is that things were much better under Reagan than Obama---you can argue this if you like, but I was there, lol!!!
Misfit28
Well-known member
I was a kid, and I remember my Dad working his ass off just to make it.
I was born in 1975, so I lived through them too!
Do you think maybe it was because of technological advancements, not Obama? Lol.
ax1
Legend
I don't think those manufacturing jobs that went to mexico, china and India was cause of technological advancements if I can come up with a easy example. Not all of that lays on Obama of course.
NAFTA has a lot to do with it, and without getting into whether or not I agree or don't agree with any of this I will say that we can't have our cake and eat it too. Americans in general love being able to get $5 t-shirts at Walmart but don't think about why they are so cheap. If American manufacturers make the same shirt here, our cost of living and cost of doing business inside the USA drives that price up. Now, that's not to say it needs to be driven up to $20. But certainly anyone who is demanding that all American companies bring all jobs back to the USA must also accept the consequence that their cost of goods will go up at least somewhat.
By the way, if your messages are paid for by the Russians then I want my cut. It's the new "AM tax".
thebigt
Legend
lol....I graduated high school in 1976.
it is true that fat cats and corporations benefited under reaganomics, but jobs were plentiful and inflation decreased by a considerable margin!!!
at least your dad had a job...the unemployment rate for people aged 18-29 years old is a whopping 12.7%- and wages for those that do have jobs are stagnant....I don't see how you can make a legitimate argument for obamanomics?
Misfit28
Well-known member
See, that's your main problem. YOU are the one who mentioned Obama.
You hate Obama so much that he is your catch all for everything you don't like.
I was saying that Trump is bringing back Reaganomics, and I don't think that's a good thing. You automatically went straight to Obama. No mention of Bush Sr., Clinton, George W. or anyone else besides Obama.
The only time I mentioned Obama was when I pointed out that the deficit under Reagan grew more as a percentage than Obama. And that was in response to you talking about jobs under Obama lol.
thebigt
Legend
jobs drive the economy, more American jobs is of benefit all of us. if there is more demand for jobs wages should go up.
i'm not sure how it works, but I bet a lot of middlemen are involved in imports-1st you have to have a negotiation team doing overseas contracts, which usually involve dealing with foreign governments, then you need a carrier to transport it into the usa, then you need to clear customs, then transport to distribution centers---each of these processes are going to eat away at profit.
I think lowering corporate taxes from 35 to 15% should be a huge incentive....i'm not claiming to be an expert but I think I have a general grasp of how things are done.
Misfit28
Well-known member
Should is the operative word. You forget about greed, though.
thebigt
Legend
nice attempt at diversion...of course I mentioned Obama, he has been president for the last 8 years....
I pointed out benefits that came with Reagans increase in the deficit, what benefits have come with obama's increase in the deficit?
thebigt
Legend
how do you explain jobs being sent overseas because of technical advances, lol.
Misfit28
Well-known member
The first point I can see, the second not so much.
I agree that there are abuses of government assistance, but I seriously doubt anyone has gotten rich off of it, lol.
Misfit28
Well-known member
I'm talking about elimination of jobs, not just "sending them overseas".
You think Obama was the only President under which jobs went overseas? If so, you're dreaming.
No one said those who abuse are getting rich off of it, but multiply many "small" abuses across the numbers of people doing it and that's a pretty big leak of government funds that could be utilized elsewhere instead of raising taxes for new programs.
Misfit28
Well-known member
Look at the budget and see how small the budget is for TANF/Food stamps and AFDC. It's miniscule compared to the military.
Maybe you should look at it like this, if we didn't spend so much on military expansion, we might be able to devote more resources to education and help people get trained for jobs.
thebigt
Legend
actually I am more concerned with stemming the flow than playing the blame game, merely pointing out that obamanomics did zilch to solve the problem, at least trump is making an attempt to improve the situation.
Misfit28
Well-known member
Making an attempt is the operative phrase. He hasn't done jack yet
thebigt
Legend
Making an attempt is the operative phrase. He hasn't done jack yet
lol...he's done more in 3 months than Obama did in 8 years.....how many business's have left the usa since trump has been in office?
You're putting words into my mouth. I never said anything about the military budget. I only made a very specific example of leaky funds into a broken system that I have witnessed first hand. Comparing that to a military budget is like saying it's ok for someone to be stealing printer supplies from the copy room at the office because "Have you seen what those executives are stealing upstairs? Thousands of dollars!" Pointing out a larger example of poor spending does not negate the smaller offense from still being a problem.
ax1
Legend
Its not to do with getting rich off it, but rather there is no incentive to work 40 hours a week when the government can just hand it to you, give your food stamps, health care and even pay off your rent for you. At this point, usually people will just chill in their situation or find work off the books at a restaurant or casual labor for extra cash.
Misfit28
Well-known member
Misfit28
Well-known member
My point is the small portion of the overall budget that the programs you are taking about take up. It's not as much money as you think.
hairygrandpa
Legend
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Jiigzz
Legend
Hes undone more in 3 months than obama had in 8 years.
Overseas, your countries image has been tarnished, and people are literally hoping you guys impeach trump ASAP. We are on the brink of WW3 because Trump is careless with his words and actions.
Those guys wont care, they have bunkers for days. You on the other hand..
youngandfree
Well-known member
That's because they all get their info from CNN.
justhere4comm
Banned
Trump's First 100 Days
- Mexico isn't paying for the wall
- Hillary isn't going to jail
- No Muslim Ban (shut down twice)
- No repeal or replace for Obamacare
- No tax reform... (Tax CUT in the works... 1 page double spaced piece of paper with...)
- 30 day plan to destroy ISIS a bust
- Bombed Syria "Just like Hillary wanted."
- Mexico isn't paying for the wall
- Hillary isn't going to jail
- No Muslim Ban (shut down twice)
- No repeal or replace for Obamacare
- No tax reform... (Tax CUT in the works... 1 page double spaced piece of paper with...)
- 30 day plan to destroy ISIS a bust
- Bombed Syria "Just like Hillary wanted."
ax1
Legend
**fixed**
ax1
Legend
You forgot the big one, China, if you like your currency you can keep your currency, just give my lil baby girl a patent approval
ax1
Legend
Where were all those people during the Obama regime? Obama crapped on our Constitution, murdered and slaughtered countless men, women and children even in what once was peaceful and sovereign nations and destroyed the lives of 10s of millions of people around the globe while big banks and corporations topped their bank accounts. Then the empowerment of terrorism and creating a man made refugee crisis causing instability in certain places in europe.....I can go on and on but need to keep this post very short lol.
Anyways not to defend Dumps foreign policy, Im strongly against his foreign policy, but I see mostly hypocrisy from most Dump critics.
youngandfree
Well-known member
Do we need to rehash all the full time jobs that were lost as a result of the employee mandate in Obamacare? Obamacare said companies with 50 or more full time or full time equivalent employees, those working 30 hours or more, are required to provide insurance. My wife's 30 hr/week part time job at a major hospital turned into a 20 hr/week PRN job.
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Misfit28
Well-known member
Do we need to look back and see what happened under presidents other than Obama?
Did you not read my statement?
Outsourcing and offshoring began LONG before Obama.
You keep bringing up your wife's job. If she works at a private hospital, blame them not Obamacare.
Also, what are her qualifications? If she's an LPN, maybe she should consider getting an RN/BSN at least.
Misfit28
Well-known member
And you get your news from up Trump's azz, apparently.
And my point was that no matter how small of a portion it is, theft and abuse still should not be tolerated. Fix this across all aspects of government spending (including the military budget that you're so excited about) and we've got a well oiled machine again. I heard an interesting thing on the radio yesterday which proves why this is so important. Someone said "We shouldn't have to 'pay for' any of the programs (he was talking about how we'll pay for the tax cuts if i remember correctly) that the government proposes. The government should learn to do more with less money. The American people don't have the option of magically getting more money from their employer just because the government taxed them more, so vice versa, the government should not be able to magically get more money from the taxpayers to fund more projects."
Yes, I know this is a colossal undertaking and has been talked about for many years - this isn't a particular President's fault. Wasteful government spending on programs that may be good in premise but fail miserably in practice are prevalent and have been for as long as I can remember.
I think you're trying to make this a partisan accusation, saying that I'm OK with military spending but not OK with public welfare spending. I'm not saying that at all. I'm not OK with ALL wasteful spending, no matter what the program is.
Misfit28
Well-known member
And correlation does not equal causation.
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"Some"employers were cutting hours, but not a huge amount. I have no idea about your wife's situation. Were others with the exact same job also cut?
Misfit28
Well-known member
No, I'm not making a partisan accusation. I'm just looking at what you said with regards to the myth of people making more money than full time employment off of government subsidies.
ax1
Legend
I dont think anybody said that here at least, the point is it takes out the incentives to actually work since in many cases they arent get rich either so why bother when you get a free check for life.
youngandfree
Well-known member
I told you what her situation was. She went from a 30 hr/week part time position, that Obamacare decreed was a full time position requiring insurance, to 20 hrs /week.
"Some"employers were cutting hours, but not a huge amount.
Sure technically 10 hrs/week isn't a "huge amount", but it was 1/3 of her income. At HCA, based in Tennessee, they did the same to many of their part time employees in non clinical positions. Everyone in registration was in the same boat. They even hired more people to cover the spread of hours they cut from existing employees. Which is supported by the fact that many of the jobs "created" under Obama were government jobs or part time jobs.
How is it not caused by it? The HCA employs thousands of part time employees that weren't provided wit insurance. The new Obamacare mandate says as of today, you have to provide it. So they cut hours below that threshold and reclassified the positions.
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This is the hospital system I'm referring to, it's called HCA.
I also never said full time employment.
Misfit28
Well-known member
Yep, as I suspected. A for profit hospital.
And you're surprised? HCA is all about the bottom line.
As I said before correlation does not equal causation. Look at the other economic conditions during the time you are talking about.
I'm not saying it couldn't be because of it, but there are probably other factors, which you fail to account for.
And as usual, screw all the people that it helped, right? Some people who were never able to get insurance before got coverage. God forbid.
Misfit28
Well-known member
Then what exactly does this:
mean?
If you didn't mean full time, perhaps you should have clarified.
Misfit28
Well-known member
So you think I live in Tennessee (Nashville specifically) and don't know what HCA is?
I know who HCA is, and they are known for cutting corners on everything to make a profit.
So I'm not surprised that happened to your wife. At all.
youngandfree
Well-known member
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Look at how many registrar jobs are PRN
Look at how many registrar jobs are PRN
Misfit28
Well-known member
I see.
Looks like HCA is the one to be angry at for picking profits over people IMO.
Also, no offense to your wife but that doesn't seem to be a highly skilled position. It's easy to see why they are not hiring as many, due to the use of more technology in hospitals.
youngandfree
Well-known member
Then what would they be? And screw all the people that had good jobs just to give some people insurance. That argument goes both ways.
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94% of jobs created were part time or independent contractor jobs with no benefits, like employer provided insurance.
youngandfree
Well-known member
They hired more people in her office, after they cut her hours. There are thousands of low skill employees at HCA or any hospital system in similar positions. Many companies did the same things, in order to lower their Obamacare mandate.
Perhaps. Work, in general, means performing a service in exchange for something of value. I am mostly talking about hourly, part time jobs. I have a good friend in particular who owns a small business and has trouble finding reliable part time help doing various labor tasks because many of the people who call him want cash under the table so it's not reported anywhere as income and they're asking top dollar hourly wages for it. There's zero incentive from a company standpoint to pay someone above average hourly wages and not be able to deduct that payment as an expense on their corporate taxes.
And for the record, yes, several of the people he's tried working with are on public assistance.
I think it's fairly common knowledge that someone with a full time job (presumably with benefits) is not going to quit that job to go on welfare. I'm talking hourly jobs that don't require any form of higher education.
Misfit28
Well-known member
Many? How many?
youngandfree
Well-known member
Invalid Link Removed
If you don't like Zero Hedge.
Why would so many companies change how they employ people, in order to avoid their burden under obamacare, if it wasn't about obamacare?
If you don't like Zero Hedge.
Why would so many companies change how they employ people, in order to avoid their burden under obamacare, if it wasn't about obamacare?