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Donald Trump running for president

The problem is, people are saying that what we did was the best thing. Murdering babies is never the best option. And it was far from being a last resort.
 
HIT4ME said:
Ok, I see what you're saying now. Only it's a bit of a fantasy to think "we could have done nothing and it would have all turned out fine". That is kind of what got everyone in that mess to begin with.
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I did not mention "doing nothing". I mentioned the famine and blockade, also that Japan had no merits to attack the US without a fleet.

HIT4ME said:
I am all for economic sanctions to create change instead of guns - which is part of what I wrote earlier - but whether or not it was working is the question and was it working fast enough?
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Fast enough for what? A starving population and badly crippled economy, who was cut off from supplies by a blockade -and had no ally anymore would do WHAT?

HIT4ME said:
Clearly, the US leadership believed SOME action had to be taken and was willing to take the PR hit to avoid risking American lives.
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Mute point, no attack imminent, no fleet...remember?

HIT4ME said:
It's not like there was any upside to bombing the Japanese beyond ending a war - unless you want to say it was just payback for Pearl Harbor. Which, again, I guess that sends a message....a message the US no longer sends and should be.
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The reason, hm. Wanna know what I think? To see how the new weapon performs on a life target AND to end the conflict at the same time. Win-Win for some sick people.
Look up how sick a government can be to test stuff out, I bet you already know of some examples, if not, google.
 
The funny thing about this whole thread is that no matter how much we debate, no one is gonna sway anyone's opinions in here. It's just a big Charlie-Foxtrot.
 
Gutterpump said:
Btw, I'm a mix of Italian, German and Scottish, so I might be a lil intense that combo's gotta be worse than Irish
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Hahaha! The Italian in you is the hot blood, the German the cold calculator (eins-zwei-eins-zwei) and the Scottish the rebel who shows his ass to all opponents!
 
Gutterpump said:
The funny thing about this whole thread is that no matter how much we debate, no one is gonna sway anyone's opinions in here. It's just a big Charlie-Foxtrot.
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Don't think so, at least some readers may overthink their position.
Because saying: "There was ABSOLUTE no other way"is asinine and they may come to that conclusion.
 
Gutterpump said:
The funny thing about this whole thread is that no matter how much we debate, no one is gonna sway anyone's opinions in here. It's just a big Charlie-Foxtrot.
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I don't know if you will sway me to your side, but you and ax and HGP have given information that may change my opinion. It isn't just your way or mine...It is more fluid than that.

Although, gutterpump, your emotions and personal attacks weaken an argument that could be persuasive. :)
 
HIT4ME said:
I don't know if you will sway me to your side, but you and ax and HGP have given information that may change my opinion. It isn't just your way or mine...It is more fluid than that.

Although, gutterpump, your emotions and personal attacks weaken an argument that could be persuasive. :)
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I don't know if I'm trying to win people over as much as trying to abuse those with backwards thinking. Kind of a revenge mentality I suppose.
 
I would probably make a horrible police officer. Possibly a better soldier, although I have no patience for a$$holes. So I'm just someone who takes out my anger on people online.
 
But their thinking may not be backwards...just a different angle or based on different information, or slightly different values.

I don't want to hurt women and children, or even men for that matter...but sometimes shot goes wrong.
 
HIT4ME said:
I don't know if you will sway me to your side, but you and ax and HGP have given information that may change my opinion. It isn't just your way or mine...It is more fluid than that.

Although, gutterpump, your emotions and personal attacks weaken an argument that could be persuasive. :)
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A good discussion does not need a winner. It helps both sides to get more insight.
I once believed that no human went to the moon. The presented evidence for a hoax was compelling. It took me about a year to finally drop that belief.
 
HIT4ME said:
But their thinking may not be backwards...just a different angle or based on different information, or slightly different values.

I don't want to hurt women and children, or even men for that matter...but sometimes shot goes wrong.
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I like to think I stand for justice. Nuclear warfare is unjust. You simply can not become worse than your enemy in order to defeat them. The Nazis were far more powerful than the Japanese, and did not require dropping massive detonations wiping out Berlin and Munich, with horrible radioactive fallout to ensure the surviving populace died a slow horrible death. What we did was inexcusably evil.
 
HIT4ME said:
I don't know if you will sway me to your side, but you and ax and HGP have given information that may change my opinion. It isn't just your way or mine...It is more fluid than that.

Although, gutterpump, your emotions and personal attacks weaken an argument that could be persuasive. :)
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These wars have hidden agendas imo inlcuding WWII. After US declared economic warfare on Japan they told their soldiers to have a good nights sleep and not worry about anything, including the calls that were warning the US that the Japanese were on their way.

You can look into how Prescott Bush financed Hitler and the Nazi's through US banking ever AFTER they declared war on Germany.

Many banks bought out many newspapers in order to propagandize American people to go into war. Here is a old newspaper clip that shows how JP Morgan Chase bought out 25 newspapers to brainwash the public which were bought about to attention by congress. Invalid Link Removed

Prescott Bush (who was George Bush's grandfather) was the financial architect of the Nazism. He even wanted to stage a coup by assassinating Roosevelt and installing a Nazi dictatorship too which was uncovered after a whistle-blower spoke up. Prescott continued to be Senator of Connecticut for years after. Thats power.

Prescott was involved with US Banking. Now Chase had the Nazi's biggest bank account during WWII even months after Pearl Harbor and they siezed millions in Jewish bank accounts which they had to repay after the war.

There is much much more but I should keep this post short.

"Let us not forget the bankers who financed the great war. If anyone had the cream of the profits it was the bankers."

Major General Smedley Butler - The most decorated man in American military history.
 
hairygrandpa said:
A good discussion does not need a winner. It helps both sides to get more insight.
I once believed that no human went to the moon. The presented evidence for a hoax was compelling. It took me about a year to finally drop that belief.
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I can't wait till we land on Europa and drill through the surface
 
More from the most decorated man in US Military history.

Prior to WWII

Yes, all over, nations are camping in their arms. The mad dogs of Europe are on the loose. In the Orient the maneuvering is more adroit. Back in 1904, when Russia and Japan fought, we kicked out our old friends the Russians and backed Japan. Then our very generous international bankers were financing Japan. Now the trend is to poison us against the Japanese. What does the "open door" policy to China mean to us? Our trade with China is about $90,000,000 a year. Or the Philippine Islands? We have spent about $600,000,000 in the Philippines in thirty-five years and we (our bankers and industrialists and speculators) have private investments there of less than $200,000,000.

Then, to save that China trade of about $90,000,000, or to protect these private investments of less than $200,000,000 in the Philippines, we would be all stirred up to hate Japan and go to war -- a war that might well cost us tens of billions of dollars, hundreds of thousands of lives of Americans, and many more hundreds of thousands of physically maimed and mentally unbalanced men.

Of course, for this loss, there would be a compensating profit -- fortunes would be made. Millions and billions of dollars would be piled up. By a few. Munitions makers. Bankers. Ship builders. Manufacturers. Meat packers. Speculators. They would fare well.

Yes, they are getting ready for another war. Why shouldn't they? It pays high dividends.

But what does it profit the men who are killed? What does it profit their mothers and sisters, their wives and their sweethearts? What does it profit their children?

What does it profit anyone except the very few to whom war means huge profits?

Yes, and what does it profit the nation?


-Major General Smedley Butler
 
ax1 said:
Especially after he just apologized with Japan, it seems inappropriate.
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You keep saying this, but my understanding was that there was no apology. He did visit Japan because this was a historic event, but stated before that there would be no apology. I can find plenty of sites like Fox who claim he apologized or that he was on an "apology tour" which again is the media's term, but I can't find where he actually apologized. Am I missing something?
 
Aleksandar37 said:
You keep saying this, but my understanding was that there was no apology. He did visit Japan because this was a historic event, but stated before that there would be no apology. I can find plenty of sites like Fox who claim he apologized or that he was on an "apology tour" which again is the media's term, but I can't find where he actually apologized. Am I missing something?
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Ok Ill take your word for it you look like you did your homework more than me. I am wrong so wont bring that up again :)

He hugged a Japanese thats what I know, not sure what was said but I dont have a problem with that.
 
Can anyone answer me this? If nondiscriminant weapons like cluster bombs and horrific chemical weapons can be banned worldwide, why not nukes? They kill nondiscriminantly and the fallout is worse than any chemical weapons attack.
 
Gutterpump said:
Can anyone answer me this? If nondiscriminant weapons like cluster bombs and horrific chemical weapons can be banned worldwide, why not nukes? They kill nondiscriminantly and the fallout is worse than any chemical weapons attack.
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That was a part of the Geneva convention to ban its use in war.

I think and Im guessing the nuclear option used a loophole since a chemical reaction involves by rearranging electrons and nuclear reaction involves changing the nucleus within or something like that so it doesnt qualify as a chemical weapon.

I dunno, I guess like roids, change an atom around in superdrol and all the sudden its not on the banned list, lol
 
ax1 said:
That was a part of the Geneva convention to ban its use in war.

I think and Im guessing the nuclear option used a loophole since a chemical reaction involves by rearranging electrons and nuclear reaction involves changing the nucleus within or something like that so it doesnt qualify as a chemical weapon.

I dunno, I guess like roids, change an atom around in superdrol and all the sudden its not on the banned list, lol
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But can't the Geneva convention be modified then?

They keep changing these steroid laws lol
 
Gutterpump said:
But can't the Geneva convention be modified then?

They keep changing these steroid laws lol
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The US government has no regards for the Geneva Convention anyways so you can change it to whatever you want, they dont care. Think Agent Orange in Vietnam as a primary example which still effects people today.
 
Gutterpump said:
But can't the Geneva convention be modified then?

They keep changing these steroid laws lol
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But yeah if it was me I would add in radiation weapons, both the bomb and using waste in regular ammo as they did in the Iraq war which effects both Iraqi's and our own troops.
 
ax1 said:
The US government has no regards for the Geneva Convention anyways so you can change it to whatever you want, they dont care. Think Agent Orange in Vietnam as a primary example which still effects people today.
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Another example of war crimes committed by the great America. Perhaps it was necessary though, some in here would argue
 
ax1 said:
But yeah if it was me I would add in radiation weapons, both the bomb and using waste in regular ammo as they did in the Iraq war which effects both Iraqi's and our own troops.
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Yeah that was disgusting. Who is here to police the 'world police'?
 
Gutterpump said:
Yeah that was disgusting. Who is here to police the 'world police'?
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The concept of the "world police" being the US is now gone. Our military takes orders from the UN and its supersedes congressional powers. Military will still seek war powers from Congress for the UN only for ceremonial purposes, but they have no say.

This is why Lybia was destroyed with the backing of US forces. Congress was told to F'off by Robert Gates and said the UN told us to do it.
 
So Rose McGowan is offended by the XMen: Apocalypse billboard. Apparently a fake god choking a blue mutant promotes violence towards women????????
 
ax1 said:
The concept of the "world police" being the US is now gone. Our military takes orders from the UN and its supersedes congressional powers. Military will still seek war powers from Congress for the UN only for ceremonial purposes, but they have no say.

This is why Lybia was destroyed with the backing of US forces. Congress was told to F'off by Robert Gates and said the UN told us to do it.
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Haven't we gone against the UN several times in recent history? I know NATO has.
 
Gutterpump said:
Haven't we gone against the UN several times in recent history? I know NATO has.
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Actually your right, I often mix the two. Robert Gates remained firm to congress that they have no call to over-ride the commitments to NATO. It wasnt the UN.
 
Speaking of fascist regimes and other ways of thinking, has anyone here been watching Wayward Pines? So freakin good. It even has the mad scientist from Hydra in it.
 
hairygrandpa said:
You have the temper of my ex-wife, LOL
Please, personal attacks are in no way useful to share opinions or to make others revise their beliefs.
If you search the net about the "justified- or not", nuke discussion, you will find that apparently half of Americans are in favor.
That would make 50% of US population nazis.
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That's all trolls know how to do.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
You keep saying this, but my understanding was that there was no apology. He did visit Japan because this was a historic event, but stated before that there would be no apology. I can find plenty of sites like Fox who claim he apologized or that he was on an "apology tour" which again is the media's term, but I can't find where he actually apologized. Am I missing something?
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Obama got a Nobel peace price. Could anyone explain to me why?
 
RIP Mohammad Ali, truly the best ever! Wish I had at least 1% of the passion he had. Sad day in sports.
 
jswain34 said:
Hey you leave Captain America out of this. He cant be gay and a Nazi too.
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Alas, that's what Marvel appears to be doing :(

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Friend of mine who's been reading the current story is telling me not to worry, it's part of a larger story, but it's still wrong
 
Goooo... Trump!!!
 
Gutterpump said:
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I hope you see through this man. Kim Jong-Un especially is way more afraid of Trump being in control than Hillary.
 
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