Donald Trump running for president

nostrum420

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What's the source on that 100%? I'm seeing 25%.
It was a bit tongue in cheek. The idea was that anyone who would do such a thing must be mentally ill, right?

Was that 25% consistent throughout political affiliation?
 
Aleksandar37

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It was a bit tongue in cheek. The idea was that anyone who would do such a thing must be mentally ill, right?

Was that 25% consistent throughout political affiliation?
I get it now :) I'm just curious to pull other studies and see what they came up with.

I think this use of mentally ill is more philosophical than actually medical. Yes, you would think that somebody would have to be mentally ill to do something like this, but then you have the example of military. Is everybody in the military who is willing to fire into a group of people or drop a bomb also mentally ill? I don't think so, but where is that line?

I haven't seen any study that looks at political affiliations. If I had to guess, these people are easily manipulated and latch onto whatever messages resonate with the already distorted views that they hold. Propaganda is just fuel at that point.
 
thebigt

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ok, then what did you mean?
I don't know about you but if I get shot my last dying words will probably not be to ask if the shooter was democrat or republican.
 
justhere4comm

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It’s ok. Odds are it was a Republican. If that makes you feel better...
 
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Aleksandar37

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I don't know about you but if I get shot my last dying words will probably not be to ask if the shooter was democrat or republican.
When did I say I would? When did I blame Republicans or Democrats for either of these recent attacks? I said that it would suck to die getting shot in a Walmart as that was relevant to the story since it just happened. You jump in with your softball example and are now walking it back as if that was just an arbitrary example. What's your point?
 
ax1

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Also, what percentage of the Pentagon/military do you think is "left wing?"
When it comes to this government/pentagon/military they all are in the same wing in my books.

No difference between Clinton, Bush, Obama and Dump wing, all belong to the same club and none of us are in it.
 
rob112

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I'll just leave this here:

View attachment 185443
Now you have data to figure out the percentage of people who disagree with you ideologically that have committed such acts. Then you can see how ridiculous it is to make it out like they are all evil.

Just for the hell of it you can figure out the same type of percentage risk for other groups and I’m sure it will lead to much more groups of people for you to hate. You can do different religions and races, by geographic location, or really anything.

The irony is this is the stupid **** racists do. They will take an unfavorable statistic of a group they don’t like and throw that number over the whole group. You might not be doing that based on race, but you are still doing that.

If you just want to say that in general in America alt right has been more dangerous than fringe left I will 100% agree. If you want to conflate those numbers to good people that are nothing like them you are an asshole. If. I am saying if.
 
thebigt

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When did I say I would? When did I blame Republicans or Democrats for either of these recent attacks? I said that it would suck to die getting shot in a Walmart as that was relevant to the story since it just happened. You jump in with your softball example and are now walking it back as if that was just an arbitrary example. What's your point?
the point is, if you get shot at Walmart or on softball field it's going to suck, rather or not a republican or democrat did the shooting.
 
nostrum420

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Now you have data to figure out the percentage of people who disagree with you ideologically that have committed such acts. Then you can see how ridiculous it is to make it out like they are all evil.

Just for the hell of it you can figure out the same type of percentage risk for other groups and I’m sure it will lead to much more groups of people for you to hate. You can do different religions and races, by geographic location, or really anything.

The irony is this is the stupid **** racists do. They will take an unfavorable statistic of a group they don’t like and throw that number over the whole group. You might not be doing that based on race, but you are still doing that.

If you just want to say that in general in America alt right has been more dangerous than fringe left I will 100% agree. If you want to conflate those numbers to good people that are nothing like them you are an asshole. If. I am saying if.
This reminds of when Cartman was "just asking questions" lol.

On the one hand it is wrong to assume something is certain about someone based on their ideology, on the other hand, it's reasonable for me to assume I'm more likely to be attacked by a Proud Boy than by a Jainist.

I think we need to look at the numbers on these things because in general the conversation goes as it has ITT. As a scientist it's maddening when there's a clear trend and people "disprove it" with one counter example. 1 snowy day doesn't disprove global warming and 1 Bernie Sanders supporter does not disprove a trend of violence on the right in general and especially amongst Trump supporters.
 
nostrum420

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If it makes me any less of an asshole, if there were a string of mass shootings and bombings and they all had Obama manifestos, I'd think it was reasonable to scrutinize that as well. If. I'm saying if. 😇
 
jimbuick

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It’s ok. Odds are it was a Republican. If that makes you feel better...
If you get shot in the US, overwhelming odds are it was gang-related violence. I'm not sure we have good data about political affiliation of inner-city gangs, but I sincerely doubt the majority of them are Republicans, in the unlikely event that they are registered voters at all.
 
rob112

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This reminds of when Cartman was "just asking questions" lol.

On the one hand it is wrong to assume something is certain about someone based on their ideology, on the other hand, it's reasonable for me to assume I'm more likely to be attacked by a Proud Boy than by a Jainist.

I think we need to look at the numbers on these things because in general the conversation goes as it has ITT. As a scientist it's maddening when there's a clear trend and people "disprove it" with one counter example. 1 snowy day doesn't disprove global warming and 1 Bernie Sanders supporter does not disprove a trend of violence on the right in general and especially amongst Trump supporters.
If we are doing that you should look up the ideology of the Ohio shooter.
 
rob112

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If it makes me any less of an asshole, if there were a string of mass shootings and bombings and they all had Obama manifestos, I'd think it was reasonable to scrutinize that as well. If. I'm saying if.
Ohio shooter said he would vote Warren and was a socialist.

Difference between me and you is I don’t blame democrats or Warren.

How can you say inflammatory language directly causes violence while spewing inflammatory language against 50 million plus people?
 
justhere4comm

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Mitch fancies himself the grim reaper...
The difference is, no Democrat leadership is promoting hate speech to backwoods morons to act out their violent fantasies like the Republicans and TRUMP.

185459
 
thebigt

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Mitch fancies himself the grim reaper...
The difference is, no Democrat leadership is promoting hate speech to backwoods morons to act out their violent fantasies like the Republicans and TRUMP.

View attachment 185459
are you calling republicans backwoods morons?

some would consider that hate speech!!!
 
nostrum420

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Ohio shooter said he would vote Warren and was a socialist.

Difference between me and you is I don’t blame democrats or Warren.

How can you say inflammatory language directly causes violence while spewing inflammatory language against 50 million plus people?
If it becomes a trend I think it would completely reasonable to have a discussion about Warren's rhetoric and if she was being especially incendiary she bears some responsibility for that.

I'm not against the 50 million people, I'm concerned that their leadership is engaged in stochastic terrorism.

If there ends up being a slew of mass murderers who invoke me in their manifestos, I will absolutely accept some amount of responsibility for it.
 
ax1

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If it makes me any less of an asshole, if there were a string of mass shootings and bombings and they all had Obama manifestos, I'd think it was reasonable to scrutinize that as well. If. I'm saying if. 😇
I think it would be ok to point that out, but it would be wrong to assume all or most Obama supporters are potential terrorists just as Dump supporters are accused of being by a few others. Although 100% of them deserve roll eyes from me, lol.
 
rob112

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If it becomes a trend I think it would completely reasonable to have a discussion about Warren's rhetoric and if she was being especially incendiary she bears some responsibility for that.

I'm not against the 50 million people, I'm concerned that their leadership is engaged in stochastic terrorism.

If there ends up being a slew of mass murderers who invoke me in their manifestos, I will absolutely accept some amount of responsibility for it.
Well you shouldn’t if you are against murder...I usually just blame the murderer. I’m old school I guess.
 
ax1

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Ohio shooter said he would vote Warren and was a socialist.

Difference between me and you is I don’t blame democrats or Warren.

How can you say inflammatory language directly causes violence while spewing inflammatory language against 50 million plus people?
I remember that video (I cant find it anymore, google is censoring the internet) of the KKK Grand Wizard prior to the last election when he endorsed and supported Hitlery. Of course nobody was saying she attracts right extremists. Speaking of right extremists terrorists, the Bush's voted for Hitlery.
 
ax1

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If it becomes a trend I think it would completely reasonable to have a discussion about Warren's rhetoric and if she was being especially incendiary she bears some responsibility for that.

I'm not against the 50 million people, I'm concerned that their leadership is engaged in stochastic terrorism.

If there ends up being a slew of mass murderers who invoke me in their manifestos, I will absolutely accept some amount of responsibility for it.
I do believe this has been boiling up during the Obama years who also personally completely lost me (I voted for him in 08) and Dump has done a shitty job unifying the country but only continuing to contribute to it whether intent or not.
 
ax1

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Ohio shooter said he would vote Warren and was a socialist.

Difference between me and you is I don’t blame democrats or Warren.

How can you say inflammatory language directly causes violence while spewing inflammatory language against 50 million plus people?
I just found out about that and I first heard it only from you then searched it. Damn.

(not my own work below)
– Described himself as a “leftist”
– Tweeted “I want socialism”.
– Tweeted “Warren I’d happily vote for”.
– Retweeted Bernie Sanders numerous times.
– Retweeted Antifa accounts numerous times.
– Tweeted “kill every fascist”.
– Tweeted “burn the world to the ground to start the new one”.
– Repeatedly tweeted “hail Satan”.
– Expressed praise and sympathy for the Antifa terrorist who attempted to firebomb an ICE facility, calling him a “martyr”.
– Used Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s “concentration camp” rhetoric.
– Tweeted “vote blue for gods sake”.
– Wore a patch that said “Against All Gods”.
– Expressed support for the “punch a Nazi” meme.
– Retweeted Right Wing Watch’s Jared Holt.
– Advocated for gun control.
 
nostrum420

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Well you shouldn’t if you are against murder...I usually just blame the murderer. I’m old school I guess.
If prosecutors followed this logic so fervently they'd never put away mob bosses because they're not actually the ones carrying out the murders.
 
rob112

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If prosecutors followed this logic so fervently they'd never put away mob bosses because they're not actually the ones carrying out the murders.
Mob bosses actual call and demand murder from the people under them. If warren, Bernie, trump, etc called for murder then I would put some blame on them. Charles Manson used other people to kill in an attempt to start a race war in the name of the Beatles. Charles called for it so he is guilty too. The Beatles have nothing to do with it, so they are without blame.

I am having trouble telling if you are being snarky, or really do not know the difference. I can point you in the direction of some great true crime podcasts if you need a better understanding of what mob bosses do.
 
rob112

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I just found out about that and I first heard it only from you then searched it. Damn.

(not my own work below)
– Described himself as a “leftist”
– Tweeted “I want socialism”.
– Tweeted “Warren I’d happily vote for”.
– Retweeted Bernie Sanders numerous times.
– Retweeted Antifa accounts numerous times.
– Tweeted “kill every fascist”.
– Tweeted “burn the world to the ground to start the new one”.
– Repeatedly tweeted “hail Satan”.
– Expressed praise and sympathy for the Antifa terrorist who attempted to firebomb an ICE facility, calling him a “martyr”.
– Used Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s “concentration camp” rhetoric.
– Tweeted “vote blue for gods sake”.
– Wore a patch that said “Against All Gods”.
– Expressed support for the “punch a Nazi” meme.
– Retweeted Right Wing Watch’s Jared Holt.
– Advocated for gun control.
Yet I get told the media is not biased. It’s a joke.

Again even though he was left wing I do not blame left wingers. That is irresponsible.
 

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This reminds of when Cartman was "just asking questions" lol.

On the one hand it is wrong to assume something is certain about someone based on their ideology, on the other hand, it's reasonable for me to assume I'm more likely to be attacked by a Proud Boy than by a Jainist.

I think we need to look at the numbers on these things because in general the conversation goes as it has ITT. As a scientist it's maddening when there's a clear trend and people "disprove it" with one counter example. 1 snowy day doesn't disprove global warming and 1 Bernie Sanders supporter does not disprove a trend of violence on the right in general and especially amongst Trump supporters.

 
nostrum420

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Mob bosses actual call and demand murder from the people under them. If warren, Bernie, trump, etc called for murder then I would put some blame on them. Charles Manson used other people to kill in an attempt to start a race war in the name of the Beatles. Charles called for it so he is guilty too. The Beatles have nothing to do with it, so they are without blame.

I am having trouble telling if you are being snarky, or really do not know the difference. I can point you in the direction of some great true crime podcasts if you need a better understanding of what mob bosses do.
I've actually read a bit about it and in general the boss doesn't actually say "go kill Vinny" they say something like "Man that Vinny guy is a jerk, I wish he'd go back to where he came from." Then when Vinny turns up dead, the boss is OK even if the grunt gets caught.
 
rob112

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^ this is one guys opinion and it even says most republicans are not racist
Fixed it for you.

Also, in your made up mob scenario the mob bosses intention is murder. He is carefully calling for murder.

When have I ever said I am okay with someone who intentionally wants to kill people? Seriously it doesn’t make sense to me how that has anything to do with the conversation. I just am not for taking a horrific event and putting it on people that have nothing to do with it. Somehow that bothers you.

To top it off you completely have a different standard for other people who have done similar who are loosely(I guess) related to the other party.

I feel like people are taking their political parties like the new religions.
 
rob112

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There is nothing to gain from taking any tragedy as a tool of division. We all mourn together. We all feel bad. We all want these things to stop. Most people are good people. We may have different ideas on how to stop this, but we all are against the murder of innocent people.

To act any other way is dishonest. I won’t try to change any more minds on this.
 
Aleksandar37

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Yet I get told the media is not biased. It’s a joke.

Again even though he was left wing I do not blame left wingers. That is irresponsible.
How does this disprove media bias? CNN had an entire article on their front page yesterday with the headline "Dayton shooter appeared to tweet extreme left views and had an abiding interest in violence".

Most major media channels are biased. I'm just curious how this would be an example against that.
 
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nostrum420

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Fixed it for you.

Also, in your made up mob scenario the mob bosses intention is murder. He is carefully calling for murder.

When have I ever said I am okay with someone who intentionally wants to kill people? Seriously it doesn’t make sense to me how that has anything to do with the conversation. I just am not for taking a horrific event and putting it on people that have nothing to do with it. Somehow that bothers you.

To top it off you completely have a different standard for other people who have done similar who are loosely(I guess) related to the other party.

I feel like people are taking their political parties like the new religions.
My point is even if Trump is not doing it intentionally and I'm not sure that he's not but I'll extend the benefit of the doubt, he's making those same careful calls for violence. Once is a mistake, twice is a coincidence, at this point it's not unreasonable to point out the pattern.

I've stated, like the author of the opinion piece has, that I don't think 50 million people are racist terrorists. I do think there's a trend and typically when it gets discussed counter examples are brought up as they should be but then there's this "both sides" conclusion and it ends there. The numbers don't bear that out. If saying that makes me an asshole then I'm an asshole, that's fine, I probably am and I've been called worse.

I'm not bothered at all. I enjoy debate. If this is upsetting you, I'm happy to drop it.

I'm not quite sure what you meant about applying different standards.
 
nostrum420

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I don't care enough to continue this exercis

How does this disprove media bias? CNN had an entire article on their front page yesterday with the headline "Dayton shooter appeared to tweet extreme left views and had an abiding interest in violence".

Most major media channels are biased. I'm just curious how this would be an example against that.
I think he was trying to say the idea that the media is not bias is a joke.
 
Aleksandar37

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I think he was trying to say the idea that the media is not bias is a joke.
No, I understand that. But he said it in response to the list of facts on the Dayton shooter. CNN is extremely biased against the right and still ran an article outlining how the Dayton shooter was a far left nutjob.
 
thebigt

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I believe in personal responsibility...if a drunk driver harms my loved ones I am going to want justice for him/her-if he is a member of the Methodist church i'm not going to blame Methodist's for his/her actions.

@jimbuick brought up a good point, most murders by gun is gang related and they mostly kill other gang members...if you are not involved in gang activity your chances are better to be randomly killed by a drunk driver than by a gun.

from memory I believe the statistics are over half of gun deaths are from suicide.
 
ax1

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I feel like people are taking their political parties like the new religions.
Thats what they want and have psychops unleashed on the masses. They created 2 cults thinking each side has a Jesus to save them and then they get shoved deep up the bunghole then repeat process, Demicans and Republicans have their $10k drunk dinners together and slap high fives and all their voters are paying for it and re-voting to continue to pay for it.
 
ax1

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I believe in personal responsibility...if a drunk driver harms my loved ones I am going to want justice for him/her-if he is a member of the Methodist church i'm not going to blame Methodist's for his/her actions.

@jimbuick brought up a good point, most murders by gun is gang related and they mostly kill other gang members...if you are not involved in gang activity your chances are better to be randomly killed by a drunk driver than by a gun.

from memory I believe the statistics are over half of gun deaths are from suicide.
I was just thinking that before I reached your less sentance, lol which is higher? Of course anti-gun people include all of them in the same stats and also ignore the fact it is almost impossible statistically in this country to die from a gunshot. And most of these mass shooting oppressed innocent people have no means of self defense either from the scary gun control that was created and/or the already hardcore enforced gun control laws that strip good people the right to carry a strap. Really sad.
 
justhere4comm

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Who's voting for Trump in 2020?
 
justhere4comm

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What do you all suppose our government would look like if every politician had to work on a per diem?
I'd love to see that ****.
 
ax1

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What do you all suppose our government would look like if every politician had to work on a per diem?
I'd love to see that ****.
I would just love to abolish the party system from running on top of that.
 
justhere4comm

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Americans on average are too stupid to have more than two choices. It would more than likely entangle the systems of government already entrenched in branches and make it impossible to get anything done.

On the other hand. Dictatorships have their benefits.
Nothing for the middle or lower class to worry about. They have no say, so trudge onward towards 'retirement' and death.
// End of simulation.
 

primolift00

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Fixed it for you.

Also, in your made up mob scenario the mob bosses intention is murder. He is carefully calling for murder.

When have I ever said I am okay with someone who intentionally wants to kill people? Seriously it doesn’t make sense to me how that has anything to do with the conversation. I just am not for taking a horrific event and putting it on people that have nothing to do with it. Somehow that bothers you.

To top it off you completely have a different standard for other people who have done similar who are loosely(I guess) related to the other party.

I feel like people are taking their political parties like the new religions.
nostrum, is it fair to say that you are suggesting that hateful, racist rhetoric has been a contributing factor to the trend of violence that has been noted above in this thread? Rob is your position that this rhetoric has played no role and those providing this rhetoric deserve no blame? if that is not your position, it is hard to follow what you are saying. Also I don’t think nostrum ever made the claim that you have stated above
 

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