does god exist

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bigironkiller said:
also, do you take everything in the bible as literal??? if you dont, somewhere you had to make a choice as to how to percieve it, or someone told you.
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literal? I take it in context with the preceding and following scripture. I've found that the bible is most often misquoted when small sections of the Word as a whole are taken out and analyzed apart from the rest of it.
 
I have no problem with either religion or atheism. It's all gravy to me. What I do have a problem with is ignorant, intolerant bitterness and hatred, no matter where it happens to spring up from.
 
ozarkaBRAND said:
How can the choice matter? If there is no God and no great scheme of things then our choices are completely irrelevant and hold no significance.
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I beg to differ. the choice does not matter if given by god. If god is omnipotent, and omnipresent, then it knows the choices you will make before you realize you have a choice. Therefore making it not a choice at all, you are just a pawn in the plan.

however, if there is no god, then the choice is truly yours, and you can hopefully used what you have learned throughout your life to help in the choice
 
Ozarka, sorry you got sucked in to all this. The things of God arre foolishness to those who are perishing.
 
Reaper329 said:
nabisco, by the same token then what created god?

the first creation argument doesnt work well
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Something, somewhere had to exist first. Whatever that thing is, that created the rest of existence is what I was referring to. And I did not present my above post as irrefutable evidence. I only offered my opinion as someone who is in between the issue.
 
Ribo68 said:
Ozarka, sorry you got sucked in to all this. The things of God arre foolishness to those who are perishing.
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The idea that God, the all forgiving, is going to cast me down because I don't follow the correct scripture or go to the right place of worship on Sunday is unfathomable to me. If I am an overall good person, but don't follow a prescribed scripture, why do you think that God (whichever one you prescribe to) would cast me down to hell?

And why people feel the need to tell other's that because they don't have the "right" belief that they are going to perish in a terrible afterlife and go to "Hell" is still beyond me. Why is it necessary to judge others for their beliefs?
 
Nabisco said:
Something, somewhere had to exist first. Whatever that thing is, that created the rest of existence is what I was referring to. And I did not present my above post as irrefutable evidence. I only offered my opinion as someone who is in between the issue.
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I know that you were not trying to state it was 100% true, so please no offense.

However, your first statement is an assumption more than anything else, and is not backed up by anything
 
Nabisco said:
The idea that God, the all forgiving, is going to cast me down because I don't follow the correct scripture or go to the right place of worship on Sunday is unfathomable to me. If I am an overall good person, but don't follow a prescribed scripture, why do you think that God (whichever one you prescribe to) would cast me down to hell?

And why people feel the need to tell other's that because they don't have the "right" belief that they are going to perish in a terrible afterlife and go to "Hell" is still beyond me. Why is it necessary to judge others for their beliefs?
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very well said

for "all loving" theists to place someone in hell based on belief is hypocriscy and sad
 
Nabisco said:
The idea that God, the all forgiving, is going to cast me down because I don't follow the correct scripture or go to the right place of worship on Sunday is unfathomable to me. If I am an overall good person, but don't follow a prescribed scripture, why do you think that God (whichever one you prescribe to) would cast me down to hell?

And why people feel the need to tell other's that because they don't have the "right" belief that they are going to perish in a terrible afterlife and go to "Hell" is still beyond me. Why is it necessary to judge others for their beliefs?
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Well, the deal is, one must believe in God, and believe that His Son did in fact come to earth, led a perfect life, and was tortured and murdered in our place. Without recognition of this and a true belief in this, we (being imperfect, no matter how good of people we think we are) are without God's grace and will be punished with hell.
 
Reaper329 said:
I know that you were not trying to state it was 100% true, so please no offense.

However, your first statement is an assumption more than anything else, and is not backed up by anything
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Agreed, however, as a "scientist" the majority of theories require assumptions to attempt to prove them out. So it is an assumption plain and simple, but I'm ok with that. :cheers:
 
ozarkaBRAND said:
Well, the deal is, one must believe in God, and believe that His Son did in fact come to earth, led a perfect life, and was tortured and murdered in our place. Without recognition of this and a true belief in this, we (being imperfect, no matter how good of people we think we are) are without God's grace and will be punished with hell.
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I understand the argument based on the Bible and I respect your view. I, however, do not believe that God is quite that spiteful. I believe there is a God, but I question religion itself because it was written/developed by human (and therefore fallible/imperfect) hands. I feel that by living a good life, although imperfect as it will always be, will not result in my imprisonment in Hell until the end of time. But, like I said, that is just my personal belief and I respect others who disagree.
 
Nabisco said:
Agreed, however, as a "scientist" the majority of theories require assumptions to attempt to prove them out. So it is an assumption plain and simple, but I'm ok with that. :cheers:
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fair enough, I see what you mean, not my point however, but I do see where you are coming from
 
Nabisco said:
I understand the argument based on the Bible and I respect your view. I, however, do not believe that God is quite that spiteful. I believe there is a God, but I question religion itself because it was written/developed by human (and therefore fallible/imperfect) hands. I feel that by living a good life, although imperfect as it will always be, will not result in my imprisonment in Hell until the end of time. But, like I said, that is just my personal belief and I respect others who disagree.
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Here is something that we do agree on. I cannot imagine a perfect entity sending someone to eternal damnation even though they led their lives as best they can
 
Last post, I swear!

Thought you'd like this. It's a quote from Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugged. It's fiction and her protagonist says this:

Do not say that you're afraid to trust your mind because you know so little. Are you safer in surrendering to mystics and discarding the little you do know? Live and act within the limit of your knowledge and keep expanding it to the limit of your life. Redeem your mind from the hock-shops of authority. Accept the fact that you are not omniscient, but playing a zombie will not give you omniscience-that your mind is fallible but becoming mindless will not make you infallible-that an error made on your own is safer than ten truths accepted on faith, because the first leaves you the means to correct it, but the second destroys your capacity to distinguish truth from error.
 
I'm a non believer. I grew up catholic and made conformation and all of that. I was forced into religion by my mother. I did what i wanted whether it was good or bad and if it was bad i was just go do my penance and that was it I'm sin free.

I moved to Korea for a year and saw there culture and there beliefs and realized how much the catholic religion and basically all religions are just brain washing you. scarring you to have morals. Like ozarka said if he found out god didn't exist he would be different.

As for myself i stopped believing that there was a god and my morals actually changed in a good way. I think before i do things because of the way it may effect others. I do good because i want to not because i have to or i"ll go to hell. That's all nonsense and fairy tale stories to me.

I do believe in energy positive and negative. If you do bad things all the time bad things will happen if your a good person and do good things then good things will happen. There is always a positive to a negative. I don't do good things so good things happen to me i do good things because that is who I am. I like to help people.

I do believe that when we die our energy does go somewhere else maybe you can be human again maybe your something else. Everything has energy so when we die our energy will be used elsewhere. I hope my energy gets reincarnated back into a human life form.
 
bigironkiller said:
i played part in another thread about religion and steroids, which got to far off topic, so im starting another thread here. im asking who here believes in god.....i am an open atheist and just want to have an open discussion where you dont have to hold back or be respectful....... say what you want please. one sybolism i used in the other thread was to compare children believing in santa clause to adults believing in god. to be more clear, if children were told that not believing in santa was a sin and would lead to there eternal damnation such as with religion,as adults we would belive in both santa and religion. also, do we really need god to be godd and moral??? no. being human, what nature designed is why we have the capacity to be good or bad. and i think if you look back thru the centuries people have diluted the bible more and more. it was once acceptable to kill heratics/non-believrs, but people have moved past that. reason it seems is still making slow progress to be priority over religion.

tell me im an idiot or whatever, i just want to have a discussion and see what people on this board are like.:cheers:
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You need to get on your knees and ask for forgiveness. This thread is uncalled for. I'm not gonna read anymore of this thread because it is sickining!.
 
It's not that I don't care, however as grown adults everyone has the choice to make their own decision. I've found that religion, God, and politics are topics best left alone.



Steroids on the other hand are still fine though.
 
T-Bone said:
You need to get on your knees and ask for forgiveness. This thread is uncalled for. I'm not gonna read anymore of this thread because it is sickining!.
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Are you serious? Just curious? If you are I am sorry that you were offended, but could you tell me what offended you?
 
T-Bone said:
You need to get on your knees and ask for forgiveness. This thread is uncalled for. I'm not gonna read anymore of this thread because it is sickining!.
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Dude..Ill use this quote again in all seriousness."Dont take life too seriously as no1 makes it out alive"
 
to each his own, if u believe then believe, if u don't then don't, simple as that!

:thumbsup:
 
Nabisco said:
I understand the argument based on the Bible and I respect your view. I, however, do not believe that God is quite that spiteful. I believe there is a God, but I question religion itself because it was written/developed by human (and therefore fallible/imperfect) hands. I feel that by living a good life, although imperfect as it will always be, will not result in my imprisonment in Hell until the end of time. But, like I said, that is just my personal belief and I respect others who disagree.
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Even without looking at Christianity as it has been shaped by human interpretation, it is easy to infer from scripture that belief in God, and Christ, is the only way to avoid hell. The bible is not very straight forward sometimes, but when it comes to this, it's crystal clear.
 
ozarkaBRAND said:
Well, the deal is, one must believe in God, and believe that His Son did in fact come to earth, led a perfect life, and was tortured and murdered in our place. Without recognition of this and a true belief in this, we (being imperfect, no matter how good of people we think we are) are without God's grace and will be punished with hell.
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another religios nut job statement. those who dont belive arnt worth ****. we can all see what kind of person you are. all is good though because i expected this kind of dialouge in this thread, only shows the ignorance of the person saying such things.
 
T-Bone said:
You need to get on your knees and ask for forgiveness. This thread is uncalled for. I'm not going read anymore of this thread because it is sickining!.
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once they run out of things to say, they throw your supposed eternal damnation in your face. he couldnt even say anything instructivce. one of the above posters was right, that religion brain washes you. constructed by men who want power.
 
from what ive read so far it seems the non-believers or what have you, have been the most respectful of other belifs than those you believe in god. i wonder where their morals are when the imply our eternal damnation. isnt one of gods rules to love thy neighbor???maybe im just interpreting that wrong(not).
 
b unit said:
does anyone here know what is the definition of agnostic?
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a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

here ya go
 
bigironkiller said:
another religios nut job statement. those who dont belive arnt worth ****. we can all see what kind of person you are. all is good though because i expected this kind of dialouge in this thread, only shows the ignorance of the person saying such things.
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How does this make me a nut job? I'm simply laying out what the bible clearly states. Never once suggested my own superiority, or any non-believers worthlessness. Contrary to your belief, I'm not that "kind of person."
 
gotta say folks, I am disappointed with the turn in this thread. this is a discussion not a finger point session nor a casting into damnation session.



<ok rant over>
 
bigironkiller said:
from what ive read so far it seems the non-believers or what have you, have been the most respectful of other belifs than those you believe in god. i wonder where their morals are when the imply our eternal damnation. isnt one of gods rules to love thy neighbor???maybe im just interpreting that wrong(not).
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You can't make a thread tells everyone to be honest without holding anything back, respectful or not, and then call people out because their answers weren't respectful. That's complete bs.
 
ozarkaBRAND said:
Even without looking at Christianity as it has been shaped by human interpretation, it is easy to infer from scripture that belief in God, and Christ, is the only way to avoid hell. The bible is not very straight forward sometimes, but when it comes to this, it's crystal clear.
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the only thing I will say to this is look during the reign of Constantine at events such as the council of nicea (325 C.E.) and hippo (393 C.E.) for the formation of scripture, whih might make you second guess your thoughts. keep in mind that much of what was "accepted" as sripture was thrown out as apocrypha due to it not painting jesus in the correct light
 
I believe I am an agnostic Athiest then, because all my life I told myself I am an Athiest(which believes theres no god), which I can see from certain points kind of Hypocritical to go against people who want to believe. After reading the agnostic point of view(that there is no adequate or knowability of a god every existing, and therefore should not be believed or accepted). I really find that passage most defining of myself, because I dont believe that something should be believed upon faith. This thread is probably one of the most controversial ones on the board right now. You can see my standpoint on this subject but I really enjoy listening to the other sides perspectives.
 
Reaper329 said:
the only thing I will say to this is look during the reign of Constantine at events such as the council of nicea (325 C.E.) and hippo (393 C.E.) for the formation of scripture, whih might make you second guess your thoughts. keep in mind that much of what was "accepted" as sripture was thrown out as apocrypha due to it not painting jesus in the correct light
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I've actually got a copy of the apocrypha, haven't looked into it much though, I believe I def should.

Of all things though, what would these people (leaders, etc...) have to gain by saying that people need Jesus? Also, if they did just slip it in, it's pretty unlikely that they could've been thorough enough for it to fit seamlessly in with the rest of the scriptures, even the old testament. It just doesn't make sense that this particular scriptural inference would've been tampered with.
 
from Merriam-Webster

agnostic



Main Entry: 1ag·nos·tic
Pronunciation: \ag-ˈnäs-tik, əg-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek agnōstos unknown, unknowable, from a- + gnōstos known, from gignōskein to know — more at know
Date: 1869
1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
2: a person unwilling to commit to an opinion about something <political agnostics>
— ag·nos·ti·cism \-tə-ˌsi-zəm\ noun

Ive seen too many of these threads and too many people who DONT believe in God fighting to prove the existance of nothing!?:hammer:

I myself am a believer that Christ is God in the flesh. He died for our sins and we can obtain that gift of salvation by simply accepting a relationship with Him and asking forgiveness (while we're still alive.)Cause once the curtain falls ;this part of the eternal scheme of things is over and theres no changing positions.

Like I said thats my belief and nobody will sway me.just as the athiests (not agnostics since agnostics can only state that they dont know for sure) will hold their ground.Just because we dont agree doesnt mean that we need to have a pissing contest..So this thread is for contraversy only .

So to each his own.
 
ozarkaBRAND said:
I've actually got a copy of the apocrypha, haven't looked into it much though, I believe I def should.

Of all things though, what would these people (leaders, etc...) have to gain by saying that people need Jesus? Also, if they did just slip it in, it's pretty unlikely that they could've been thorough enough for it to fit seamlessly in with the rest of the scriptures, even the old testament. It just doesn't make sense that this particular scriptural inference would've been tampered with.
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I think it is an interesting argument. The church at the time was very corrupt as we already know, and making this reference to the need for Jesus certainly would have kept "business booming". Look at the history of the religious leaders of the church, from the popes (Julius II is a personal favorite) to the bishops and you will see that corruption was not new.

I would certainly recommend you read it, just for informational purposes
 
bigironkiller said:
a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

here ya go
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10/10

here are some questions that i've never heard answered properly, i have an agnostic belief btw.

When the bible was written, wasn't the common belief held by all including the catholic church that the earth was flat?

why is there no mention of dinosaurs in the bible?

if adam and eve were the first humans on this earth and they had children, their children in turn had to mate with each other to increase the population, is this incest?

if god is so perfect, then why did he create a world and it's people so imperfect?

if god created everything and god is perfect, who created the devil?

where does evil come from if god created everything?

if any believers are offended by any of my questions then i apologise and mean no disrespect, they are only questions afterall. I think that people who believe in god and the bible and have a better life for it, then i'm more than happy with it. It's the one's that hurt and kill in the name of any god that i don't have any time for!
 
b unit said:
10/10

here are some questions that i've never heard answered properly, i have an agnostic belief btw.

When the bible was written, wasn't the common belief held by all including the catholic church that the earth was flat?

why is there no mention of dinosaurs in the bible?

if adam and eve were the first humans on this earth and they had children, their children in turn had to mate with each other to increase the population, is this incest?

if god is so perfect, then why did he create a world and it's people so imperfect?

if god created everything and god is perfect, who created the devil?

where does evil come from if god created everything?

if any believers are offended by any of my questions then i apologise and mean no disrespect, they are only questions afterall.
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take a look at early greek history and you will see that they new the earth was round. the collasel (spelling?) statue of constantine (roman) held an orb to show this.

not sure about the dinosaur question

incest runs rampant through history and early history as well. Egyptians were huge believers in it as it kept the blood lines pure. Many European royal families took part in it as well. :fool2:

the rest will be answered by theists as free will

I am a non theists btw
 
cheers oz, i'd rep u but it won't let me, i have to spread it around first. respect :thumbsup:
 
ozarkaBRAND said:
You can't make a thread tells everyone to be honest without holding anything back, respectful or not, and then call people out because their answers weren't respectful. That's complete bs.
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i dont care that your being disrespectful thats exactly what i said to do. i was just pointing out the fact that the religious ones were saying the most negative things.
 
seems aslo in the last page or so, there is less and less discussion on aspects of god, and more bashing just plain saying im right your wrong. ozarka said everything he does he does for god and his avoiding of sin. for example: if he is nice to his girlfriend is he doing it for god or to make her happy. i would assume the latter, but from what hes said i dont know
 
ozarkaBRAND said:
Well, the deal is, one must believe in God, and believe that His Son did in fact come to earth, led a perfect life, and was tortured and murdered in our place. Without recognition of this and a true belief in this, we (being imperfect, no matter how good of people we think we are) are without God's grace and will be punished with hell.
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by the way heres where you stated your superiority.
 
1st: you said one must believe in god
2nd: without god recognition we are punished in hell

by you believing in god and believing the above points(which i took from your post) even a good person will go to hell if he doesnt believe. it is not a direct claim to superiorty, but it hints at that fact.
 
People would always believe in Hell and in a God who would send them there, as long as they believe that God is like man-ruthless, self-serving, unforgiving, and vengeful.
In days past, most people could not imagine a God who might rise above all of that. So they accepted the teaching of many churches to "fear the terrible vengeance of the Lord."
It was as if people couldn't trust themselves to be good, to act appropriately, on their own, for their own built-in reasons. So they had to create a religion that taught the doctrine of an angry, retributive God in order to keep themselves in line.
 
You cannot stand the thought of a God who loves no one in a way which is more special than any other, and so you create fiction about a God who only loves certain people for certain reasons. And you call these fictions "religion." For any thought that God loves one more than another is false--and any ritual which asks you to make the same statement is not a sacrament, but a sacrilege.
People will "make" God say whatever you need God to say in order to continue limiting each other, hurting each other, and killing each other in God's name.
People have invoked God's name, and waved God's flag, and carried crosses on your battlefields for centuries, all as proof that God love one people more than another, and would ask you to kill to prove it.
Yet, I tell you this; God's love is unlimited and unconditional.
 
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