Do you stand for the National Anthem?

[UCSMiami]

The US has failed black minoritys all throughout its history, yet you get mad because one man draws attention to it by kneeling during the anthem, and yet show zero compassion for his cause and his reasons.

You care more about the flag and the anthem than you do about the people of your own nation. That's shameful and you should be embarrassed OP.

When your nation fails you, repeatedly, why would you stand for it?

Ax1 - you made a point that statistically a black male is more likely to get shot by another black male than by a cop. You'd sure hope so. Police are there to protect others, not kill them.

People fail themselves. This has always been an individualistic society. Especially for adult males. As for the rest, your stuff is entirely subjective. All of which I disagree. Nation has no duty to its people beyond basic protection for the common good, not the individual good.

 

[ax1]

People fail themselves. This has always been an individualistic society. Especially for adult males. As for the rest, your stuff is entirely subjective. All of which I disagree. Nation has no duty to its people beyond basic protection for the common good, not the individual good.

Its supposed to be an individualistic society, I wish it was but its really a big government interventionist society...majority of people beg for it (conservatives, that mostly includes you too!) and now have it, and then they want more of it to solve the very problems it has caused.

I would love to restore the individualistic society concepts it originally was intended to be.

That being said I would prefer to take these issues with the police on a case by case basis rather than knocking all the police as a whole and saying any particular race is a victim as a whole. It just causes division between races and especially division between the police and the people, but thats what big bro government wants.

 

[UCSMiami]

Its supposed to be an individualistic society, I wish it was but its really a big government interventionist society...majority of people beg for it (conservatives, that mostly includes you too!) and now have it, and then they want more of it to solve the very problems it has caused.

I would love to restore the individualistic society concepts it originally was intended to be.

**** off. Do not tell me what I want unless I state so. I do not do that to you.

 

[ax1]

**** off. Do not tell me what I want unless I state so. I do not do that to you.

Huh? Are you having a bad day? Who is telling you what you want? This is a public forum and I speak only for myself. You have the right to tell me to **** off, but I say what I want when I want.

 

[dds]

I stand for the National Anthem, but I do it for the people that have fought and died for this country to help give us a choice/chance to be free.

 

[ax1]

**** off. Do not tell me what I want unless I state so. I do not do that to you.

When I said "conservatives, that mostly includes you too!" I wasnt talking about you specifically or taking a direct shot at you, it was a general blanket statement based on the policies they generally support and vote into power historically.

 

[Aleksandar37]

People fail themselves. This has always been an individualistic society. Especially for adult males. As for the rest, your stuff is entirely subjective. All of which I disagree. Nation has no duty to its people beyond basic protection for the common good, not the individual good.

Nation should stick to paying the utilities and stop deciding what the "common good" is.

 

[Jiigzz]

People fail themselves. This has always been an individualistic society. Especially for adult males. As for the rest, your stuff is entirely subjective. All of which I disagree. Nation has no duty to its people beyond basic protection for the common good, not the individual good.

In case you havent been following, the US has failed an entire population, not just one individual in that population. Tell me, for what common good are police protecting when they shoot at unarmed people? For what common good was that police women serving when she entered a black males home, shot and killed him because she thought it was her own home?

And people don't just fail themselves - in the case of many countries, the ostracizing of people of colour has caused a lot of the issues we have today. We fail populations and then cry about it if they rise up against it.

Where i live (NZ) the police and government have owned that they failed minorities in the past which lead to the development of gangs and cycles of violence and crime in neighbourhoods. They are working to fix it through specialised community units in communities outcast by the rest of society.

Sure, people are in part accountable for their own fates, but it's not hard to see why people of colour are cynical of police when they constantly shoot at unarmed black males, or of employers who don't hire someone based on race, etc. Society perpetuates the issues it causes by purposely being divisive.

If you think people of colour have caused these issues themselves, you are out of touch with reality and are part of the problem.

 

[ax1]

If you think people of colour have caused these issues themselves, you are out of touch with reality and are part of the problem.

Its really a case by case basis, people shouldnt just jump the gun and a blanket "race" issue just because a minority was involved....such as the guy who robbed the store who was shot people made a deal of here. He was a bully and thug and got himself into the situation with the officer in the first place. I dunno what was said between the confrontation with the officer, Im not the one who supports that he should have been shot, I strongly oppose that but these issues here should really be taken on a case by case basis. I have a hard time defending low life dirt robbing stores and bullying store clerks. If he complied with the officer for his crimes he would be alive today.

 

[Jiigzz]

Its really a case by case basis, people shouldnt just jump the gun and a blanket "race" issue just because a minority was involved....such as the guy who robbed the store who was shot people made a deal of here. He was a bully and thug and got himself into the situation with the officer in the first place. I dunno what was said between the confrontation with the officer, Im not the one who supports that he should have been shot, I strongly oppose that but these issues here should really be taken on a case by case basis. I have a hard time defending low life dirt robbing stores and bullying store clerks. If he complied with the officer for his crimes he would be alive today.

If all people are subject to the same treatment, then it is fine IMO. But it is when white people commit the same crimes (or no crimes at all in some cases) but dont get shot for it that i draw the line.

I mean, what crime was the man commiting when he was at home that warranted his death at the hands of a cop?

 

[Jiigzz]

To make it worse, the charge against unlawfully entering his home, shooting him in error and subsequently killing him was manslaughter.

Damn. How's that for injustice. That was cold blooded murder no matter how you paint it

 

[Aleksandar37]

If he complied with the officer for his crimes he would be alive today.

There have been enough instances now that make it clear this isn't a guarantee.

 

[rascal14]

To make it worse, the charge against unlawfully entering his home, shooting him in error and subsequently killing him was manslaughter.

Damn. How's that for injustice. That was cold blooded murder no matter how you paint it

It's a shame when everyone else in the world can see the issue, but those who are actually here in the US who can make a difference turn a blind eye to it.

 

[ax1]

If all people are subject to the same treatment, then it is fine IMO. But it is when white people commit the same crimes (or no crimes at all in some cases) but dont get shot for it that i draw the line.

I mean, what crime was the man commiting when he was at home that warranted his death at the hands of a cop?

It wasn’t the crime, it was his refusal after the crime to comply with law enforcement. I don’t support the shooting I think the cop used bad judgment in that case. I don’t view this as a racial incident, it’s something between a single choice of an officer and the suspect, the cop imo screwed up but that’s 100% on him. It’s a tough job cops make mistakes. It’s an unfortunate incident.

The kid would be alive if he just followed Chris Rock’s advice...srs. When cops approach me I man up and respect them no matter what, and I’ve had my own issues with them in my years.

 

[Jiigzz]

It wasn’t the crime, it was his refusal after the crime to comply with law enforcement. I don’t support the shooting I think the cop used bad judgment in that case. I don’t view this as a racial incident, it’s something between a single choice of an officer and the suspect, the cop imo screwed up but that’s 100% on him. It’s a tough job cops make mistakes. It’s an unfortunate incident.

The kid would be alive if he just followed Chris Rock’s advice...srs. When cops approach me I man up and respect them no matter what, and I’ve had my own issues with them in my years.

He didnt commit any crime...? Nor was he accused of any crime.

I think you're confusing what im talking about with another incident.

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She messed up big time by mistaking his apartment for her own, yet he paid his life for that mistake. She should not only lose her job because she clearly doesnt care at all about actually protecting anyone (he wasnt armed, and certainly wasnt dangerous and so did not require lethal force) but she should face murder charges. But no, she has been charged with manslaughter.

Thats an injustice.

 

[ax1]

He didnt commit any crime...? Nor was he accused of any crime.

I think you're confusing what im talking about with another incident.

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She messed up big time by mistaking his apartment for her own, yet he paid his life for that mistake. She should not only lose her job because she clearly doesnt care at all about actually protecting anyone (he wasnt armed, and certainly wasnt dangerous and so did not require lethal force) but she should face murder charges. But no, she has been charged with manslaughter.

Thats an injustice.

Yes we were thinking of two totally different cases. What you have was a specific incident that sounds unjust, its sad and I do think there is a general bias with the court systems and law enforcement, but I dont understand how this correlates to racist oppression across the US. Its an unfortunate incident, but to turn this into national racist oppression is just not right or fair to the police as a whole (not that there arent a bunch of bad terrible cops, there is and always will be with any huge police force.) Another topic but reading that article I dont get why people obsess with "black and brown residents’ concerns," that sounds so divisive. How about "people's concern's" about other "people's injustices" or something along those lines. Who cares what color people are born with, color or race doesnt define people, people only define themselves. "Black and Brown" people cant possibly have the same thought, opinions and ideals just because of their skin, and white people can feel just the same about issues as black, brown, green, purple or whatever.

 

[Aleksandar37]

Yes we were thinking of two totally different cases. What you have was a specific incident that sounds unjust, its sad and I do think there is a general bias with the court systems and law enforcement, but I dont understand how this correlates to racist oppression across the US. Its an unfortunate incident, but to turn this into national racist oppression is just not right or fair to the police as a whole (not that there arent a bunch of bad terrible cops, there is and always will be with any huge police force.) Another topic but reading that article I dont get why people obsess with "black and brown residents’ concerns," that sounds so divisive. How about "people's concern's" about other "people's injustices" or something along those lines. Who cares what color people are born with, color or race doesnt define people, people only define themselves. "Black and Brown" people cant possibly have the same thought, opinions and ideals just because of their skin, and white people can feel just the same about issues as black, brown, green, purple or whatever.

Are you joking with this? Every other thing that happens in this country, you're talking about conspiracies and whatnot. But bring up race and it's "people only define themselves"? lol

A person (cop or not) went into somebody else's home and killed them. The police showed up and let her wander the halls and took their sweet ass time to charge her with anything. That on top of the many black folks who have complied with police officers and still ended up dead, there is a definite pattern with cops and unarmed blacks getting shot to death. The oppression is that nothing is being done about it. Some cops got early retirement or maybe a sensitivity class, but what major things have been done to address the problem or solve it.

 

[Jiigzz]

Yeah, the entire thing was unjust. She wasn't charged with anything for 3 days and they even filed a search warrant for his place after the shooting to try make him a criminal after the fact (or that's how it seems).

The point being not being this instance, but if it were a member of your family, and a continual recurring theme for people of your race, when would you draw the line? Would you tolerate it? Would you make excuses about how it should be YOU that should be extra careful around police? Or would you stand up to it, recognising that what is happening is not ok and that somethingn needs to change?

That's what i feel was being done in this protest.

It's hard for us to understand what oppression is if we arent the ones being oppressed, but we can at least try.

 

[ax1]

Are you joking with this? Every other thing that happens in this country, you're talking about conspiracies and whatnot. But bring up race and it's "people only define themselves"? lol

A person (cop or not) went into somebody else's home and killed them. The police showed up and let her wander the halls and took their sweet ass time to charge her with anything. That on top of the many black folks who have complied with police officers and still ended up dead, there is a definite pattern with cops and unarmed blacks getting shot to death. The oppression is that nothing is being done about it. Some cops got early retirement or maybe a sensitivity class, but what major things have been done to address the problem or solve it.

Im on board with police and policy reform thats for sure, and especially the criminal justice system as some of these cases have been resolved with insulting sentencing. I wouldnt want to see this happen to anybody. If there is anything most oppressive its unfair due process, this gives the eye wink to police to abuse power.

 

[ax1]

Yeah, the entire thing was unjust. She wasn't charged with anything for 3 days and they even filed a search warrant for his place after the shooting to try make him a criminal after the fact (or that's how it seems).

The point being not being this instance, but if it were a member of your family, and a continual recurring theme for people of your race, when would you draw the line? Would you tolerate it? Would you make excuses about how it should be YOU that should be extra careful around police? Or would you stand up to it, recognising that what is happening is not ok and that somethingn needs to change?

That's what i feel was being done in this protest.

It's hard for us to understand what oppression is if we arent the ones being oppressed, but we can at least try.

I agree with your post 100% here, I just dont get the black oppression here, we are all oppressed, all races are by authority both here domestically and especially global US policy all around the world in particular the Middle East are oppressed. I just feel the upper powers are successfully making this about race and dividing us. If people make this about we the people vs them Id be far more on board joining their movement. In the meantime they can join mine which is non-racial based, supports the liberties for everyone equally and support policies that would benefit them tremendously as it would put the authority in the position of fear rather than the other way around.

"People" getting shot and the post investigation/result as was in your specific story you posted is completely unacceptable. Also, if any cop was found guilty to be racial profiling they need to be perma banned from government position for life, that counts for all races and religion and if the courts turn a blind eye they need to be peed on, and Ill be the first to volunteer.

 

[Aleksandar37]

Im on board with police and policy reform thats for sure, and especially the criminal justice system as some of these cases have been resolved with insulting sentencing. I wouldnt want to see this happen to anybody. If there is anything most oppressive its unfair due process, this gives the eye wink to police to abuse power.

Agreed. I'm on board with not every single one automatically being based on racism, but the other extreme of none of them isn't true either.

 

[Jiigzz]

I agree with your post 100% here, I just dont get the black oppression here, we are all oppressed, all races are by authority both here domestically and especially global US policy all around the world in particular the Middle East are oppressed. I just feel the upper powers are successfully making this about race and dividing us. If people make this about we the people vs them Id be far more on board joining their movement. In the meantime they can join mine which is non-racial based, supports the liberties for everyone equally and support policies that would benefit them tremendously as it would put the authority in the position of fear rather than the other way around.

"People" getting shot and the post investigation/result as was in your specific story you posted is completely unacceptable. Also, if any cop was found guilty to be racial profiling they need to be perma banned from government position for life, that counts for all races and religion and if the courts turn a blind eye they need to be peed on, and Ill be the first to volunteer.

I can see your point here for sure. I do agree that the media seems to love to divide the nation in whites and blacks everytime there is an encounter between the two, but its examples like the one above that, even though they might not be racially fueled, it's not exactly helping the situation by the way it's being handled.

Sure, it could literally be that she is usually a good cop and so they dont want to lose her to an unfortunate 'accident', and i do use the term 'accident' loosely here, but by the same token, there needs to be fair process which doesnt seem to be occuring.

There are already trust issues between the public and the police and when you have a situation like this one, it does nothing but fuel thay distrust. Not only was yet another black man killed at the hands of the police, but the police are actively trying to run a smear campaign and protect this cop.

She should have lost her badge or at the very least, stood down, without pay pending a murder investigation.

She wasnt on duty. Se wasnt responding to a call. She wasnt responding to a disturbance. She entered someone elses home without permission and killed him. Cop or not, that is murder.

Maybe it wasnt a racist thing, but it doesn't exactly paint a good picture when you read the story.

 

[ax1]

I can see your point here for sure. I do agree that the media seems to love to divide the nation in whites and blacks everytime there is an encounter between the two, but its examples like the one above that, even though they might not be racially fueled, it's not exactly helping the situation by the way it's being handled.

Sure, it could literally be that she is usually a good cop and so they dont want to lose her to an unfortunate 'accident', and i do use the term 'accident' loosely here, but by the same token, there needs to be fair process which doesnt seem to be occuring.

There are already trust issues between the public and the police and when you have a situation like this one, it does nothing but fuel thay distrust. Not only was yet another black man killed at the hands of the police, but the police are actively trying to run a smear campaign and protect this cop.

She should have lost her badge or at the very least, stood down, without pay pending a murder investigation.

She wasnt on duty. Se wasnt responding to a call. She wasnt responding to a disturbance. She entered someone elses home without permission and killed him. Cop or not, that is murder.

Maybe it wasnt a racist thing, but it doesn't exactly paint a good picture when you read the story.

"Usually good" isnt good enough, being a public servant you need to be good 100% of the time when it comes to the lives of other people. Even if accident, that shows lack of poor judgement and poor judgment should equal find another job (of couse Id want the slammer if found with intent.) The entire department should be held responsible and relieved of their public duties at this point including the courts they work in.

I think the big factor, and this is just my opinion is that the most important color is green. I notice most of these problems arent necessarily "black" communities (whatever that means?) but rampant poor communities where poverty leads to higher crime rates, higher crime rates lead to higher police activity, and lack of green also equates to the inability to acquire quality legal protections and to afford bail so many other people here benefit from while in due process. Alot of poor people end up behind bars while awaiting full trial and sometimes this takes well over a year, there is no "corrections" being done here in this process for small time criminals and those who arent guilty of anything.

If this is a topic of interest for you, you should look into Robert Moses Invalid Link Removed , he is a freaking engineering genius and is responsible for so many incredible infrastructure projects here in NYC (I live north of that, was just there in Manhattan yesterday picking up the new iPhone, the city is always incredible.)

There is a series included on Amazon Prime called "American Experience: New York" by Ric Burns (2003.) I think it was episode 6 "City of Tomorow) that showed how Robert Moses created the projects to throw non-whites in and he went to extremes to specifically build street bridges that were so low city buses couldn't pass through so the minorities were stuck in these areas with limited access to get back into the city for jobs and stuff. Its really sick.

Anyways, what Robert Moses and his version of NYC did end being the role model city to push minorities out from mainstream populations that many other cities around had followed. Im sure this has still effects to this day as I know first hand welfare/poor societies have the potential to be generational.

Anyways back to my point, the color of importance is green and only green.

 

[Jiigzz]

"Usually good" isnt good enough, being a public servant you need to be good 100% of the time when it comes to the lives of other people. Even if accident, that shows lack of poor judgement and poor judgment should equal find another job (of couse Id want the slammer if found with intent.) The entire department should be held responsible and relieved of their public duties at this point including the courts they work in.

I think the big factor, and this is just my opinion is that the most important color is green. I notice most of these problems arent necessarily "black" communities (whatever that means?) but rampant poor communities where poverty leads to higher crime rates, higher crime rates lead to higher police activity, and lack of green also equates to the inability to acquire quality legal protections and to afford bail so many other people here benefit from while in due process. Alot of poor people end up behind bars while awaiting full trial and sometimes this takes well over a year, there is no "corrections" being done here in this process for small time criminals and those who arent guilty of anything.

If this is a topic of interest for you, you should look into Robert Moses Invalid Link Removed , he is a freaking engineering genius and is responsible for so many incredible infrastructure projects here in NYC (I live north of that, was just there in Manhattan yesterday picking up the new iPhone, the city is always incredible.)

There is a series included on Amazon Prime called "American Experience: New York" by Ric Burns (2003.) I think it was episode 6 "City of Tomorow) that showed how Robert Moses created the projects to throw non-whites in and he went to extremes to specifically build street bridges that were so low city buses couldn't pass through so the minorities were stuck in these areas with limited access to get back into the city for jobs and stuff. Its really sick.

Anyways, what Robert Moses and his version of NYC did end being the role model city to push minorities out from mainstream populations that many other cities around had followed. Im sure this has still effects to this day as I know first hand welfare/poor societies have the potential to be generational.

Anyways back to my point, the color of importance is green and only green.

Well said Ax. I will definitely look those things up!

 

[Aleksandar37]

Checking that series out as well. Thanks for mentioning it. Ric Burns documentaries are usually pretty great.

 

[ax1]

Checking that series out as well. Thanks for mentioning it. Ric Burns documentaries are usually pretty great.

That entire NYC series is absolutely incredible, I mean really really incredible.....except I would have preferred the final episode about 9/11 been produced by Alex Jones ROFL!!!!

 

[Aleksandar37]

That entire NYC series is absolutely incredible, I mean really really incredible.....except I would have preferred the final episode about 9/11 been produced by Alex Jones ROFL!!!!

At least they both agree THAT it happened, just not HOW it happened.

 

[Aleksandar37]

Looks like the Dallas cop finally got fired. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the trial as I still think there is a lot we don't know yet.