Do you need to cycle M-Test?
- Thread starter Shiznown
- Start date
ucheoma
Active member
Shiznown Honestly, I don't think any natty test booster is going to give you your desired levels of test increases but I'm happy to be proven wrong
Sacrifice, whatever else is going on in your life, the results could be better particularly after taking a 't booster'. Free T is very low. 34 is too young for your free t to be dropping through the floor. If anything this once again emphasises the point Ive been making that t boosters have negligible if any value/contribution vis a vis other factors and in the grander scheme of things. I bet you were feeling 'alpha' though while on mTest?
Joking aside I'm currently on mtest so am a little concerned although I realise everyone's circs differ. Definitely not what I was expecting to see even for a dyed in the wool sceptic like me
Sacrifice, whatever else is going on in your life, the results could be better particularly after taking a 't booster'. Free T is very low. 34 is too young for your free t to be dropping through the floor. If anything this once again emphasises the point Ive been making that t boosters have negligible if any value/contribution vis a vis other factors and in the grander scheme of things. I bet you were feeling 'alpha' though while on mTest?
Joking aside I'm currently on mtest so am a little concerned although I realise everyone's circs differ. Definitely not what I was expecting to see even for a dyed in the wool sceptic like me
Shiznown
Active member
Okay, well right now after looking at prices and all that stuff, I think Viron MIGHT be the way to go for now considering I have almost a full bottle of Ashwagandha and it'll cut done cost. Quick question though, do some companies have faulty boron in their products? I'm not implying any of the supplements mentioned here would, but I stopped taking boron because I started getting pain in my testicles. The thing is, I was taking boron for 3-4 months before that but using another brand and din't really have issues other than my face getting hot but I think that was a blood pressure issue(too much coffee, stress, ect.)
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Pricing on different supplements varies by the retailer. From a quick search, I found that M-Test is actually less expensive than Viron on the retailer sites that I checked. Viron usually sells for 39.99 and M-Test usually sells for 29.99 to 34.99. If you choose to stack Viron with Ashwaganda, I think you will be pleased with it though as long as you have a good quality Ashwaganda and take an effective dose of it. I say that because the feedback on M-Test is very good and it itself has the Eurycoma and Boron Citrate that you would get from Viron and KSM-66 Ashwaganda in it + other ingredients like PrimaVie, and more.
I hate to give generic answers about companies in this industry because there are legitimate companies that use GMP facilities all the way down to people that are capping things themselves and selling them, so I will say that there should never be an issue with 'faulty' Boron from any legitimate company that uses a reputable and GMP approved contract manufacturing facility. Boron isn't an overly expensive ingredient that anyone would have any reason to want to try to skimp on. But there could also be other factors like what else was or could have been in the products you were using.
Shiznown
Active member
I do remember that the form of boron was different the second time around. I'm not sure if different forms of boron effect people differently.
MindMuscleRep
Board Sponsor
if it is a test booster and not an actual prohormone or AAS derivative i see zero reason to cycle it off.
Nac
Well-known member
All the reasons given itt so far are not convincing?
Ricky10
Well-known member
One of them would be the stinging nettle extract that acts as an anti-androgen which works against everything else in the formula.
mw1
Sponsor
How so?
Ricky10
Well-known member
#1 It reduces conversion of test into DHT = bad news but that is just the beginning. Brundel could answer more questions about the detriments of stinging nettle extracts as he has done a lot of research. I can't get into it all again as it is far too exhausting as some people just don't want to accept the truth. So I defer...
ucheoma
Active member
4 wks on m test and certainly havent noticed anything from it. Now im the first to say subjective assessments ate dubious but i would very much doubt theres anything potent enough in m test to warrant cycling. In fact id wager money this isnt going to boost t levels beyond a 100pts. I asked about thr extraction of the lj and fadogia and got deafening silence. Read into that what you will.All ive felt is lethargy. I think these products which include ash and l dopa are great if you like feeling like a zombie l
Ricky10
Well-known member
Your instincts serve you well...:13:
mw1
Sponsor
sns8778
Board Sponsor
This post seems like it was made pretty much with the intention to be argumentative. There is room on the market for both Brundel's product and ours and I have never took the approach of trying to pick a fight or insult his. I'm sure he could make some type of an argument against Stinging Nettle, just as someone with the agenda to do so could make an argument against most things.
Here are a few things to think about in regards to Stinging Nettle being in the product:
1. Stinging Nettle is, and has been in many popular and well liked natural testosterone boosters for a long time. It isn't like Competitive Edge Labs is the first or only product to include it.
2. It isn't like it is included for no reason. Think about it - it would be dumb for CEL to spend the money on an ingredient and include it in a formula if there isn't a reason for it.
3. As to the comment you made about some people not wanting to accept the truth, the truth is there is plenty of supporting research that shows the premise for using Stinging Nettle for natural test boosting purposes.
First, I would like to say that I'm sorry to hear that you feel lethargic. That is definitely opposite of most of the feedback on M-Test where people report feeling more of a feel good energy and being more motivated. It seems like you alluded to in your post though that maybe you have a very sensitive response to either the Ashwaganda, Mucuna, or combination of the two.
In regards to your comment though about products like this that include those ingredients being great if people want to feel like a zombie, I think that is a vast over generalization because that isn't what most people report on M-Test, KSM-66, or other natural test boosters with KSM-66 in them. KSM-66 is a very popular and well loved ingredient and has a lot of good data on it.
As for the comment about how much a product like this can booster testosterone, I think it is a fair assessment to say that the amount that M-Test and all other natural testosterone boosters will boost a persons testosterone levels depends on a variety of factors. Natural test boosters are meant to be just that - natural test boosters. They aren't SARMs, they aren't prohormones, they are natural test boosters. As to the comment of you doubt that they would boost levels past 100 points, I think that M-Test is one of, if not the, most comprehensive natural test booster on the market and there is plenty of data on some of the active ingredients that you can look at, especially the branded ones. And in general, think of the statement came off diminishing even a 100 point increase - it was said as if that would be nothing, but think about it - some people on HRT for legit purposes whose doctors monitor their ranges are on it to see results in the couple hundred point range so I don't think its fair to diminish even 100 points like it would be nothing.
As for asking for an extraction and not getting an answer, I know you haven't asked me, but if you had, you probably wouldn't have liked the answer but you would have gotten a truthful one and that is that M-Test is a fully disclosed, non-proprietary blended formula in which the dosages of all of the active ingredients are listed and contains multiple licensed, patented ingredients at their researched dosages. For certain ingredients like Fadogia and LJ, the exact standardizations are not listed for competitive purposes. The formula itself is complete enough that M-Test would still be one of, if not the most comprehensive natural test booster on the market even without them in there. If CEL was going to use an inferior form, there would not be any need to even bother including them or would have included them in a proprietary blend like some companies do. In some cases, it is simply a business decision to not give out certain details for competitive reasons.
^^^ two supporting notes:
1. Brundel was mentioned by another poster - on his Virion product, from the supplement facts and write up that I just looked up, it doesn't show that he lists the standardization of the Eurycoma in his product and I see no problem with that. If he feels the need to keep that information private for competitive reasons, I for one would never criticize him for that. As a matter of fact, back when he was catching a lot of crap for doing the same thing with his epicatechin in the past, I understood it then and even defended him on it. My point being is that I am not making that statement just because it is a CEL product. The reason is what it is; I am just providing supporting evidence that it isn't just CEL by any means that does so.
2. I am not aware of any company that identifies the standardization of their Fadogia right off hand. (There may be one, just not one that I am aware of right off hand).
Actually this prouuct is detrimental to Viron is ore like it.
I can definitely see where it comes off like that. I can't speak for Brundel. His detrimental comments towards Stinging Nettle may truly be his opinion or it may be that he said it for competitive purposes. Regardless of his reasons or intentions, there is plenty of data supporting it and there have been many brilliant minds over the years supporting the ingredient, using it personally, and using it in their companies products and most importantly, tons of good feedback on it. I even remember seeing a poll some time last year that really surprised me in that it got voted one of people's favorite natural test boosting ingredients. I myself think its a great ingredient but it surprised even me that it was that popular.
ucheoma
Active member
Thanks for your comprehensive response.
If you didnt have such faith in your product you wouldnt have put out such a fulsome response and yes, i did over generalise in my reference to feeling like a zombie. Everyone is different. Perhaps the issue is companies hype customer expectations and the caveats and nuancing only come into play when there is less favourable feedback.
With regards to whether natty t boosters do increase test to any significant degree o think the emerging consensus is they dont. You refer to studies on ingredients evidencing test boosting results. The fact is the supp market is replete with fake and underdosed supps. Just because a supp boosted test in a study does not mean regardless of manufacfurer the same will hold in the real world which is why i always look for bloodwork based on the actual product not the ingtedient per se. Someone posted bloodwork before and after using mtest which tbh wasnt great
Now this is a n=1 and as you say a host of other factors come into play regrading test although to read the marketing you wouldnt think this. My point is this raises a flag for me and it would be nice to see some hard real-life data. Heck maybe i should have run a baseline myself. Btw no decent TRT herapist would be content with a 100 pt increase. This is within the bounds of normal daily/intra daily fluctuation.
Regarding the extraction i only asked because sns/cel have a great reputation for full disclosure and open labels. Its not full disclosure if you choose to withold what some of the ingredients have been extracted for but i respect this is your prerogative
If you didnt have such faith in your product you wouldnt have put out such a fulsome response and yes, i did over generalise in my reference to feeling like a zombie. Everyone is different. Perhaps the issue is companies hype customer expectations and the caveats and nuancing only come into play when there is less favourable feedback.
With regards to whether natty t boosters do increase test to any significant degree o think the emerging consensus is they dont. You refer to studies on ingredients evidencing test boosting results. The fact is the supp market is replete with fake and underdosed supps. Just because a supp boosted test in a study does not mean regardless of manufacfurer the same will hold in the real world which is why i always look for bloodwork based on the actual product not the ingtedient per se. Someone posted bloodwork before and after using mtest which tbh wasnt great
Now this is a n=1 and as you say a host of other factors come into play regrading test although to read the marketing you wouldnt think this. My point is this raises a flag for me and it would be nice to see some hard real-life data. Heck maybe i should have run a baseline myself. Btw no decent TRT herapist would be content with a 100 pt increase. This is within the bounds of normal daily/intra daily fluctuation.
Regarding the extraction i only asked because sns/cel have a great reputation for full disclosure and open labels. Its not full disclosure if you choose to withold what some of the ingredients have been extracted for but i respect this is your prerogative
ws65
Member
And no one would claim that M-Test or ANY natty test booster could or would replace TRT. Natty test boosters do exactly what they advertise...they help the body maximize it's own test production by using various herbs and chemicals that are naturally occurring. Doing one's own research will always show that. Now if someone goes to a shop or orders online without researching what you are throwing down your neck I can see how they might think it will be like taking AAS/PH/SARM by looking at the advertising...we all know that a natty test booster can't and won't boost test like TRT. I can understand "hiding" the % of extract on certain things, however, if two products have the same stuff, so what.
ws65
Member
I would not classify those as the same, however, I see where SNS is coming from on this too. I do agree with you, it would be great to see what the extracts are exactly, but then you run into people "stealing" your formula. I will say this, at least they list each ingredient and how much is in it which is a lot better than the proprietary BS we see. Heck, I could claim CEL stole my formula, lol, because I already was taking all of that save the stinging nettle and fadogia. Heck, K1ng's Blood is the same way for me...everything in it I already took separately. So I see the merits from both sides of the argument and I don't think we will ever see a solution to this, unless the government makes supp companies display EXACTLY what is in their formulas (standardized extracts, fully disclosed labels, etc).
thebigt
Legend
I ran m-test for 8 weeks[2 bottles]...after taking a little more than 6 weeks off I am very eager to run it again....this time stacked with bulbine!!!