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Do veterans tend to favor Dbol over nandrolone?

YamahaC76

Member
I ask because I am considering DBOL for putting on size this upcoming winter/new year. Figured id ask now and get it out of the way. I like nandralones strength, however I did notice overall some sides, some pros and then some cons. Kind of wanted to try something new but know DBOL puts on a ton of water and maybe some solid weight but unsure if this is the real case. Would probably consider a 6 week run in the beginning in addition to Test, maybe a lower dose this time around. I did 500mg this time. I'm open to a third compound as well. Maybe GH. Avoiding Tren and Masteron, EQ as well. Main goals are just to put on quality size.
 
Not a veteran, but used Dbol a few times and loved it, I'd say it is about 65% water/glyco and 35% are keepable gains, still prety good. And for quality size EQ is one of the best things. Just my opinion and experience, hope this helps
 
Orals put weight on fast. What’s fast, never lasts. However, most of us do it anyways because this is a hobby that demands patience and we are never satisfied with what we can have next year vs next month. So, my answer is, why not just keep it old school and kick off 10 weeks of an oil(or more) with an oral, and pray you can keep a lot of it with disciplined eating to support the newfound weight?
 
I’m running both starting September. With both you may still have a fighting chance of having alot of that weight still on you 6 months down the road.
 
Orals are probably sometimes stronger than injectibles but youre talking nandrolones now.. Dbol is a weight gainer sure but why would anyone want water that will go away 100% after cycle?

There are many orals with much higher muscle building potency
 
Dbol is better. You'll hold excessive water depending on your diet, not the drug. Keep the test low-ish, and enjoy the dbol benefits. Personally I'd run eq with it, but you really need a good dose to see results. 600-800mgs of eq per week, 40mgs of dbol per day for first five weeks. You'll notice the eq allows you to hold and extend the gains from the dbol as it finally kicks in. Eq will also combat loss of appetite from the dbol. Run the test and eq for 15 weeks, you'll put some serious size on. Bare in mind that whatever you keep will depend on how effective a pct is-in my experience - 90% of ppl fail to recover from using gear, and would be better simply cruising on 300mgs of test enanthate per week for ten weeks in between cycles.
 
Brenwad said:
Dbol is better. You'll hold excessive water depending on your diet, not the drug. Keep the test low-ish, and enjoy the dbol benefits. Personally I'd run eq with it, but you really need a good dose to see results. 600-800mgs of eq per week, 40mgs of dbol per day for first five weeks. You'll notice the eq allows you to hold and extend the gains from the dbol as it finally kicks in. Eq will also combat loss of appetite from the dbol. Run the test and eq for 15 weeks, you'll put some serious size on. Bare in mind that whatever you keep will depend on how effective a pct is-in my experience - 90% of ppl fail to recover from using gear, and would be better simply cruising on 300mgs of test enanthate per week for ten weeks in between cycles.
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How is a steroid with lower myotropic effect better for size? Only thing you'd gain more on dbol is water.
 
Brenwad said:
Dbol is better. You'll hold excessive water depending on your diet, not the drug. Keep the test low-ish, and enjoy the dbol benefits. Personally I'd run eq with it, but you really need a good dose to see results. 600-800mgs of eq per week, 40mgs of dbol per day for first five weeks. You'll notice the eq allows you to hold and extend the gains from the dbol as it finally kicks in. Eq will also combat loss of appetite from the dbol. Run the test and eq for 15 weeks, you'll put some serious size on. Bare in mind that whatever you keep will depend on how effective a pct is-in my experience - 90% of ppl fail to recover from using gear, and would be better simply cruising on 300mgs of test enanthate per week for ten weeks in between cycles.
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Where did you get that 90% figure?
 
Chados said:
Orals are probably sometimes stronger than injectibles but youre talking nandrolones now.. Dbol is a weight gainer sure but why would anyone want water that will go away 100% after cycle?

There are many orals with much higher muscle building potency
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Now we are getting somewhere. Dbol and Tbol are the orals that seem the most user friendly at the moment. However I took tbol for 6 weeks and added NPP after I was done, and NPP seemed much better by a long shot. However I hated EOD injections with NPP on top of a Test E ester trying to balance it out. Could NPP be done E3 day like test...since it's half life is 4 days?

Anavar of course, but definitely seems like a cutter on the consensus. Would consider 4iu of GH as well for a bulking cycle...though iv'e been interested in running that just in general.
 
YamahaC76 said:
Now we are getting somewhere. Dbol and Tbol are the orals that seem the most user friendly at the moment. However I took tbol for 6 weeks and added NPP after I was done, and NPP seemed much better by a long shot. However I hated EOD injections with NPP on top of a Test E ester trying to balance it out. Could NPP be done E3 day like test...since it's half life is 4 days?

Anavar of course, but definitely seems like a cutter on the consensus. Would consider 4iu of GH as well for a bulking cycle...though iv'e been interested in running that just in general.
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Yeah you could e3 I don't think it would matter that much. Some people inject test e once every week and some twice.

Dbol is definitely stronger than Tbol and you can bloat nicely with it if you're ripped and badly if you're not making you look chubby. At the end it will go away after cycle.

Anavar is alright just too expensive here for me and winstrol absolutely destroys it. Var can hold water inside the muscles which is quite nice and gives the effect of adrol or sdrol to a lower degree and this can also affect strength positively. No steroid directly burns fat though.

Gh isnt that amazing by itself but added to an aas cycle it gives that extra kick. It can take a while for the Gh to work at its best.
 
YamahaC76 said:
Now we are getting somewhere. Dbol and Tbol are the orals that seem the most user friendly at the moment. However I took tbol for 6 weeks and added NPP after I was done, and NPP seemed much better by a long shot. However I hated EOD injections with NPP on top of a Test E ester trying to balance it out. Could NPP be done E3 day like test...since it's half life is 4 days?

Anavar of course, but definitely seems like a cutter on the consensus. Would consider 4iu of GH as well for a bulking cycle...though iv'e been interested in running that just in general.
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If you hate frequent injections, maybe use a different ester. I realize just how different deconate and phenyl-prop are when it comes to deca. But I don’t like going longer than 2 days on short esters unless running a MWF pinning schedule. Sides become prevalent when I do that. Maybe get to the root of not wanting to pin, I hated it until I realized the hip girdle and upper glutes. 90% painless and I actually look forward to pinning. Test is honestly the only long ester I ever run. Ain’t nobody got time to wait 3-5 weeks for gear to kick in!
 
Chados said:
Yeah you could e3 I don't think it would matter that much. Some people inject test e once every week and some twice.

Dbol is definitely stronger than Tbol and you can bloat nicely with it if you're ripped and badly if you're not making you look chubby. At the end it will go away after cycle.

Anavar is alright just too expensive here for me and winstrol absolutely destroys it. Var can hold water inside the muscles which is quite nice and gives the effect of adrol or sdrol to a lower degree and this can also affect strength positively. No steroid directly burns fat though.

Gh isnt that amazing by itself but added to an aas cycle it gives that extra kick. It can take a while for the Gh to work at its best.
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It’s the nutrient partitioning that makes some steroids better at “burning fat” (which of course they don’t do) and also increased muscle mass will always increase caloric demand. Those 2 things and I burn 5x fat faster than not on anything. Once I’m over 250-260 on strong aas, I can drop calories to 3500 and I’m losing a pound every other day. It’s nuts.

And I know Anavar is great, but I’m Winnie all day long. Does plenty for me and is dirty a$$ cheap.
 
Matthersby said:
It’s the nutrient partitioning that makes some steroids better at “burning fat” (which of course they don’t do) and also increased muscle mass will always increase caloric demand. Those 2 things and I burn 5x fat faster than not on anything. Once I’m over 250-260 on strong aas, I can drop calories to 3500 and I’m losing a pound every other day. It’s nuts.

And I know Anavar is great, but I’m Winnie all day long. Does plenty for me and is dirty a$$ cheap.
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All steroids do have some type of nutrient partioning but tren is one that just makes a huge difference during bulk cause you can eat much more and not gain fat.

Yeah Winnie all day for me. Thing is you really don't need 50mg of Winnie, maybe of var but Winnie is sooo much stronger per mg. If you have abs I don't think you would be too disappointed even with 20 for 6 weeks. I once back in the days did a test Winnie cycle on a bulk at 40mg and I gained 20lbs and got shredded
 
Chados said:
All steroids do have some type of nutrient partioning but tren is one that just makes a huge difference during bulk cause you can eat much more and not gain fat.

Yeah Winnie all day for me. Thing is you really don't need 50mg of Winnie, maybe of var but Winnie is sooo much stronger per mg. If you have abs I don't think you would be too disappointed even with 20 for 6 weeks. I once back in the days did a test Winnie cycle on a bulk at 40mg and I gained 20lbs and got shredded
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This is what I noticed when I added NPP in. To be honest my diet was not dialed in, and I would 100% change that this next time around. I was eating high calorie/high protein dirty food and was not putting on fat so I was having a blast. I went from 154lb lanky to 168lb re-comped during this cycle, and am certain if my diet was clean calories at a healthy surplus I'd be hovering on a much higher weight. My training was about 70% what it should have been too. I had the worst flu iv'e ever had 8 weeks in which started a 2 week break to get better, and some days I just didn't push my hardest.

I did however notice managing sides went from non existent (adex once a week on test, maybe twice) to just out of control after NPP. Not really sure what happened but I had to do ralox and nolvadex for about 2 weeks to calm the gyno down. It really went from 0-100 in this respect. I used some prami, but I honestly thought the sides off .1mg of prami was worse than anything else. Sleepy sometimes, insomnia on other times. ridiculous compound. I assume caber is well worth the trouble of finding if it means avoiding prami.

That said, issue with pinning is I actually nicked a vein in my shoulder where I was the most confident pinning, and experienced an uncontrollable cough for 3 minutes, hot flashes, and boy I thought I was dying. This was with a test and NPP inject. So, its more of a confidence of "doing it right". never had an issue with glute injections and my gear is clean, tried, and true. Also I'm unsure how "much/bad" scar tissue accumulates from constant 25g/23g injects...what do TRT doctors have their patients do? It's one of those things where I'm unsure the actual repercussions of such large needles.
 
I think scar tissue is something that people are over worrying about just like oral liver damage.. Truth is most people try to tell you everything can damage you beyond belief on forums. It's Internet rumours or people being afraid of others doing something they don't dare to do.

Steroids comes with risks don't get me wrong but there are certain areas where people over exaggerate things. Another thing is that one steroid is so toxic that they won't use it, yet they take a mild steroid and dose it so high that it easily will surpass the stronger steroid at low dose.

Caber is the way to go 100% and you should switch areas to inject but don't think that you'll end up with some crazy scar tissue from one cycle. Your cycle seems to have gone pretty nicely and don't focus on weight focus on the mirror.. One cycle is not gonna make anyone a monster regardless what they take as long as they weren't already pretty jacked to begin with, oh and you don't want fat and water so don't over eat
 
Im no veteran but my opinion...

I dont look at this question as an oral (dbol) vs an injectable, because both options can have distinct purposes.

Actually, I guess I might qualify as a veteran cos one of the things that becomes plainly obvious if you hang around forums long enough is the realisation that whilst generalisations can be helpful ("dbol tends to bloat...dbol is a feel-good steron...etc"), ultimately personal experience with a compound can contradict them (I feel like utter arse on dbol...I get no sides whatsoever with NPP...etc).

I like to use generalisations to help construct cycles/blasts, but Id rarely use them to dictate what Im going to trial (the mantra "never run two 19nors!!" was completely unhelpful and unapplicable to me, I love stacking them).
 
Nac said:
Im no veteran but my opinion...

I dont look at this question as an oral (dbol) vs an injectable, because both options can have distinct purposes.

Actually, I guess I might qualify as a veteran cos one of the things that becomes plainly obvious if you hang around forums long enough is the realisation that whilst generalisations can be helpful ("dbol tends to bloat...dbol is a feel-good steron...etc"), ultimately personal experience with a compound can contradict them (I feel like utter arse on dbol...I get no sides whatsoever with NPP...etc).

I like to use generalisations to help construct cycles/blasts, but Id rarely use them to dictate what Im going to trial (the mantra "never run two 19nors!!" was completely unhelpful and unapplicable to me, I love stacking them).
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Yeah stacking then low isn't gonna be harsher than high tren. Most important thing is always dosage
 
I think overall my relationship with nandralone is love/hate. I wasn't 100% in love with it's mood vs only test, but the joint, tendon, and strength benefits seem to be an all-in-one. I could get the strength from a different compound...like dbol. But for the other 2 benefits, I don't really think another AAS can mimic these. Oh yeah, I should note I play a variety of instruments in a professional scene, so the tendon relief is absolutely priceless.

That's why I'm considering a Test E 500 12 weeks. Dbol 40mg 4 weeks, and NPP 300mg for 8 weeks. Mk677 or just 4iu of GH by itself is also an option. GH just intrigues me. Same as Dbol, I want to at least try it. If somebody has a better recommendation on numbers here or compounds ill take it. I've considered just regular Deca-nandralone, but the NPP ester was more appealing. More or less I respond textbook to everything I took.

The diet this time around will definitely be much better in every way. My cycle since I'm in PCT made me realize just how FAR you get with diet, and how much you can fall short as a result. I 100% understand why diet is stressed by veterans.
 
I prefer NPP to deca, but I tend to get the best sustained strength gains from deca (like, 12 wks+) than any other single compound.
 
Nac said:
I prefer NPP to deca, but I tend to get the best sustained strength gains from deca (like, 12 wks+) than any other single compound.
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If you could elaborate on the preference, id love it. Feel free not to shy away from details either. I know most users at least have experience with deca, however I went with NPP since it was mid cycle and couldn't afford another 4 weeks wait period on a saturation haha.
 
YamahaC76 said:
If you could elaborate on the preference, id love it. Feel free not to shy away from details either. I know most users at least have experience with deca, however I went with NPP since it was mid cycle and couldn't afford another 4 weeks wait period on a saturation haha.
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Yeah, thats one reason I prefer NPP: I generally prefer shorter blasts. You can run deca for 6-8wks (frontload) but at that point Id just use NPP/nandCyp instead, myself.

I find NPP/cyp a much "cleaner" compound, in just about all respects (superior feelz, minimal impact on BP, good lean gainz, good strength increase, seems to pair better with masteron and other AAS). But, I find I plateau on it around 6-8wks. Next run with deca I will stack nandrolone Cyp for first 6wks as a frontload.
 
YamahaC76 said:
I think overall my relationship with nandralone is love/hate. I wasn't 100% in love with it's mood vs only test, but the joint, tendon, and strength benefits seem to be an all-in-one. I could get the strength from a different compound...like dbol. But for the other 2 benefits, I don't really think another AAS can mimic these. Oh yeah, I should note I play a variety of instruments in a professional scene, so the tendon relief is absolutely priceless.

That's why I'm considering a Test E 500 12 weeks. Dbol 40mg 4 weeks, and NPP 300mg for 8 weeks. Mk677 or just 4iu of GH by itself is also an option. GH just intrigues me. Same as Dbol, I want to at least try it. If somebody has a better recommendation on numbers here or compounds ill take it. I've considered just regular Deca-nandralone, but the NPP ester was more appealing. More or less I respond textbook to everything I took.

The diet this time around will definitely be much better in every way. My cycle since I'm in PCT made me realize just how FAR you get with diet, and how much you can fall short as a result. I 100% understand why diet is stressed by veterans.
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Mk677 is quite nice but it takes forever for it to work.. I think you should keep deca higher than test or equal. Say 2-400 test and 4-600 deca. If you really want to clean the cycle up check out primo or winstrol
 
Nandrolone cyp interests me but going through the pain of finding another source that carries it is another adventure I'm not eager to start lol. I may delve into it though. Is nandrolone cyp clearly better than Deca? It would be twice a week Injects, however I am assuming the peak time is the same as the test at that point. With a longer ester like this I would probably go 16 weeks in all honesty. How are prolactin issues across the board concerning NPP/NanCyp/Deca ?

That said, if my cycle was using the above compounds, which oral would compliment the above. Contestants are Dbol, Tbol, and Var. Wouldn't mind getting big and hard at the same time on the cycle, so Var would be nice? Tbol always gave me a positive head rush, and that was enjoyable. Dbol would cause water retention, and so would a longer ester nandrolone correct? Too much bloat?
 
YamahaC76 said:
Nandrolone cyp interests me but going through the pain of finding another source that carries it is another adventure I'm not eager to start lol. I may delve into it though. Is nandrolone cyp clearly better than Deca? It would be twice a week Injects, however I am assuming the peak time is the same as the test at that point. With a longer ester like this I would probably go 16 weeks in all honesty. How are prolactin issues across the board concerning NPP/NanCyp/Deca ?

That said, if my cycle was using the above compounds, which oral would compliment the above. Contestants are Dbol, Tbol, and Var. Wouldn't mind getting big and hard at the same time on the cycle, so Var would be nice? Tbol always gave me a positive head rush, and that was enjoyable. Dbol would cause water retention, and so would a longer ester nandrolone correct? Too much bloat?
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I don't even need caber I think. Depends how sensitive you are and dosage. Var does nothing for size and deca and NPP are the same. Some people claims less bloat on NPP which makes sense cause of the short ester. Long ester is more anabolic but also harder to recover from so its really not much of a difference in the end
 
You also mentioned mk takes forever to work. I honestly have been using it in 3 months on, 3 months off sort of deal, but I really am over the stuff...What about GH? more noticeable right away? Does your pituitary stay suppressed after cycling gh?
 
YamahaC76 said:
You also mentioned mk takes forever to work. I honestly have been using it in 3 months on, 3 months off sort of deal, but I really am over the stuff...What about GH? more noticeable right away? Does your pituitary stay suppressed after cycling gh?
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I think mk is faster but weaker so you can't compare it to gh. Mk just makes your body produce more gh is like testosteron injection. Suppression shouldn't be long. Mk need to be ran longer than 3 months I believe, a year maybe to actually produce muscle to full effect
 
Youre just gonna have to experiment and trial stuff for yourself man. What makes generalisations difficult (dbol bloats) and constants unreliable (I had a good experience with var, doesnt mean I always will) is not only interpersonal differences but the context of our own individual use; ie Ive had no sides with sdrol this run, plenty of gains, but next time things may be quite different for any number of reasons.

Im not suggesting the world is totally random but...just to try stuff. Be reasonable and rational, but try stuff for yourself. Dont pidgeon-hole a compound based on my, theirs, or even your own previous experience. Youve hopefully got years running gear, the idea of always having to construct and run the "perfect" cycle as if its your only shot tends to lead to disappointment or frustration.
 
Chados said:
I don't even need caber I think. Depends how sensitive you are and dosage. Var does nothing for size and deca and NPP are the same. Some people claims less bloat on NPP which makes sense cause of the short ester. Long ester is more anabolic but also harder to recover from so its really not much of a difference in the end
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If I could go back to my early 30s again, there’s not a chance in hell I would run a compound like deca or EQ, simply because you’re talking about needing to shut yourself down for 3-4 months plus recovery to get their results. Pre-TRT, I would’ve like to have ran 8 week cycles, that’s it.... TRT is great, but I’d love to have least made it to my mid 40s without needing to be on it.

Totally agree though on longer esters. Or even cruise doses when able to cruise. Fast gains are ridiculously hard to keep.
 
Chados said:
I don't even need caber I think. Depends how sensitive you are and dosage. Var does nothing for size and deca and NPP are the same. Some people claims less bloat on NPP which makes sense cause of the short ester. Long ester is more anabolic but also harder to recover from so its really not much of a difference in the end
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If I could go back to my early 30s again, there’s not a chance in hell I would run a compound like deca or EQ, simply because you’re talking about needing to shut yourself down for 3-4 months plus recovery to get their results. Pre-TRT, I would’ve like to have ran 8 week cycles, that’s it.... TRT is great, but I’d love to have least made it to my mid 40s without needing to be on it.

Totally agree though on longer esters. Or even cruise doses when able to cruise. Fast gains are ridiculously hard to keep.
 
Matthersby said:
If I could go back to my early 30s again, there’s not a chance in hell I would run a compound like deca or EQ, simply because you’re talking about needing to shut yourself down for 3-4 months plus recovery to get their results. Pre-TRT, I would’ve like to have ran 8 week cycles, that’s it.... TRT is great, but I’d love to have least made it to my mid 40s without needing to be on it.

Totally agree though on longer esters. Or even cruise doses when able to cruise. Fast gains are ridiculously hard to keep.
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Yeah I guess that's what it comes down to.. The thing is that since we gain so much less on a shorter cycle in terms of weight maybe we end up losing the same percentage just that it's not as bad when we've been gaining twice as much. Deca should in theory produce more gains than NPP considering the time it lasts in your system.

I wish I could cruise on primo but it's too expensive here
 
Yeah, I made another thread related to TRT. I knew going into this I had to be ready and I actually wonder just how shut down I am. In all honesty iv'e considered my own TRT at 250 a week. Iv'e been off for a few weeks at this point, but am starting to drop weight. And iv'e been on for quite awhile and I'm starting to kind of realize why I stayed on cycle so long to begin with. It was less about the gains, more about the mental.

I had previously had a pretty bad hormonal balance for me. Just bad peaks and valleys of being okay, and then just losing it. While on cycle, I just had everything under control. This is why I considered cruising, I just did better.

With that said, is typical deca really that much more detrimental than NPP. I ran NPP for 10 weeks.
 
YamahaC76 said:
Yeah, I made another thread related to TRT. I knew going into this I had to be ready and I actually wonder just how shut down I am. In all honesty iv'e considered my own TRT at 250 a week. Iv'e been off for a few weeks at this point, but am starting to drop weight. And iv'e been on for quite awhile and I'm starting to kind of realize why I stayed on cycle so long to begin with. It was less about the gains, more about the mental.

I had previously had a pretty bad hormonal balance for me. Just bad peaks and valleys of being okay, and then just losing it. While on cycle, I just had everything under control. This is why I considered cruising, I just did better.

With that said, is typical deca really that much more detrimental than NPP. I ran NPP for 10 weeks.
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Nah its the same thing really. In theory a long ester would build more but shut you down more considering it stays longer in your system.
 
YamahaC76 said:
I ask because I am considering DBOL for putting on size this upcoming winter/new year. Figured id ask now and get it out of the way. I like nandralones strength, however I did notice overall some sides, some pros and then some cons. Kind of wanted to try something new but know DBOL puts on a ton of water and maybe some solid weight but unsure if this is the real case. Would probably consider a 6 week run in the beginning in addition to Test, maybe a lower dose this time around. I did 500mg this time. I'm open to a third compound as well. Maybe GH. Avoiding Tren and Masteron, EQ as well. Main goals are just to put on quality size.
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Lol I thought you meant mil vets
 
Chados said:
Yeah you could e3 I don't think it would matter that much. Some people inject test e once every week and some twice.

Dbol is definitely stronger than Tbol and you can bloat nicely with it if you're ripped and badly if you're not making you look chubby. At the end it will go away after cycle.

Anavar is alright just too expensive here for me and winstrol absolutely destroys it. Var can hold water inside the muscles which is quite nice and gives the effect of adrol or sdrol to a lower degree and this can also affect strength positively. No steroid directly burns fat though.

Gh isnt that amazing by itself but added to an aas cycle it gives that extra kick. It can take a while for the Gh to work at its best.
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Great info here
 
Deca makes me feel like complete trash, but the strength is overwhelming. Using deca all my weights jump up at least 20lbs off the bat.

The bulk and size is insane on deca for me as well. I believe its a better bulker and strength compound than dbol.

Dbol for me gives good pumps, feel amazing, get thicker from water and stronger but get wayyy to bloated from water weight.

That's why I love/hate dbol. Feel great, but the water weight...

Adrol blows dbol out of the water for strength and mass,

But to answer OP, If you can handle the deca sides, then deca. Nothing beats old school deca for strength and size. Doesn't make me bloated like dbol. I think the water is mostly in the muscles with deca
 
Chados said:
Yeah I guess that's what it comes down to.. The thing is that since we gain so much less on a shorter cycle in terms of weight maybe we end up losing the same percentage just that it's not as bad when we've been gaining twice as much. Deca should in theory produce more gains than NPP considering the time it lasts in your system.

I wish I could cruise on primo but it's too expensive here
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Why cruise on primo?
Just curious.

I've crushed low dose primo for its immune benefits(never get sick) and also if ran long enough it totally changes your physique
 
Bintherduntht said:
Why cruise on primo?
Just curious.

I've crushed low dose primo for its immune benefits(never get sick) and also if ran long enough it totally changes your physique
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Well obviously with test involved.. Just because it's one of the safest steroids out there and it gives some nice gains gradually. It's like a mild tren with pretty much no sides. Of course tren blows primo out of the water but during a cut primo is actually more efficient to retain muscle.
 
Chados said:
Well obviously with test involved.. Just because it's one of the safest steroids out there and it gives some nice gains gradually. It's like a mild tren with pretty much no sides. Of course tren blows primo out of the water but during a cut primo is actually more efficient to retain muscle.
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Agreed...
I’ve found via labs that you can stay on a drug that, if ran at blast or cycle doses, would start trashing your lipids, blood pressure, etc etc, BUT can be ran safely at cruise doses for 5 months. And I will definitely claim that cruises yield more long term gains always. Ya, I’m not going to go into the gym and jump from 315x5 to 335x6 from one workout to the next, like on a crazy heavily dosed blast. But the gains in strength and muscle are legitimately maintainable on cruises.
If I’ve learned anything experimenting with aas for 10+ years, the slower and drier you get gains, the more likely you are to keep 90%+ of them. 20lbs in 4 weeks will end up being 5lbs 6 months later. 20 pounds over 5 months and you can keep all of it at 6 months.
 
So I see here people say longer esters make you more suppressed...Im not sure the reasoning behind this, because I could see your body detecting the androgens and shutting you off, but that's if its in the system period. If Deca is saturated into a cycle and NPP comes in, its the same level of situation, but the NPP clears faster. Where I'm going with this, is if you are still running a test E ester, you need to wait 2 weeks for it to clear anyway. So if you dropped deca a month prior to ending the test and stopped NPP almost 2 weeks prior as well, doesn't everything clear at the same time if you just take everything half life into consideration?
 
YamahaC76 said:
So I see here people say longer esters make you more suppressed...Im not sure the reasoning behind this, because I could see your body detecting the androgens and shutting you off, but that's if its in the system period. If Deca is saturated into a cycle and NPP comes in, its the same level of situation, but the NPP clears faster. Where I'm going with this, is if you are still running a test E ester, you need to wait 2 weeks for it to clear anyway. So if you dropped deca a month prior to ending the test and stopped NPP almost 2 weeks prior as well, doesn't everything clear at the same time if you just take everything half life into consideration?
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I guess, but you can't really run a long ester for a short amount of time
 
YamahaC76 said:
So I see here people say longer esters make you more suppressed...Im not sure the reasoning behind this, because I could see your body detecting the androgens and shutting you off, but that's if its in the system period. If Deca is saturated into a cycle and NPP comes in, its the same level of situation, but the NPP clears faster. Where I'm going with this, is if you are still running a test E ester, you need to wait 2 weeks for it to clear anyway. So if you dropped deca a month prior to ending the test and stopped NPP almost 2 weeks prior as well, doesn't everything clear at the same time if you just take everything half life into consideration?
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Consider this:
I take 20mg OxyContin today. I enjoy it, so I take it all this week daily. And then I run out next Monday. I don’t notice anything.
Now say I have a years worth at 20mg a day.
Two things happen..
1. Within a month or two,20mg isn’t doing what it did for me at the beginning.
2. I am going to notice when I run out. In fact it’ll be 3-4 weeks before I’m sleeping through the night and don’t have cold sweats and chills.
Saturation and shutdown.
Saturation: I’ll need more to produce the same effects I initially achieved.
Shutdown: the longer I’m giving my body something it typically produces on its own, the longer and harder it will be until it’s producing it adequately on its own again.
In fact, it’s proven the longer you are using exogenous substances, the less likely you are to ever regain even close to 100% of function. Here is an absurd made-up unscientific fictitious chart:
4 week cycle with pct: 98% function achieved 2 months post cycle
8 week cycle with pct: 92% function achieved 2 months post cycle
16 week cycle at 35 years old with 6 week pct: 75% function achieved 3 months post cycle.
For me, once I ran a 14 week test cycle with Dbol on the front end and SD on the back end, with hcg and 6 week nolva/clomid pct with 3 day hcg blast. 6 months later I was around 45% natural testosterone levels that I was prior to the cycle. All with lab confirmation. At 37 years old. Never once broke 350 natty test again.
 
Matthersby said:
Agreed...
I’ve found via labs that you can stay on a drug that, if ran at blast or cycle doses, would start trashing your lipids, blood pressure, etc etc, BUT can be ran safely at cruise doses for 5 months. And I will definitely claim that cruises yield more long term gains always. Ya, I’m not going to go into the gym and jump from 315x5 to 335x6 from one workout to the next, like on a crazy heavily dosed blast. But the gains in strength and muscle are legitimately maintainable on cruises.
If I’ve learned anything experimenting with aas for 10+ years, the slower and drier you get gains, the more likely you are to keep 90%+ of them. 20lbs in 4 weeks will end up being 5lbs 6 months later. 20 pounds over 5 months and you can keep all of it at 6 months.
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This is why I love primo. Dry, no sides, can be ran forever with steady gains.
 
Alright, so my next question is regarding NPP and Turinabol. Since I'm not really fat, and can see some abs, I'm probably still 15-16% bf. I still want to put on more muscle weight of course. When it comes down to it, steroids don't burn fat. And I know some tend to shine more on a cut or bulk, but in the end they all put muscle on different ways.

I'm just trying to gauge why one would go with an oral that either deca, tren, or masteron couldn't do, EQ included. I could see running Var in place of masteron though, since it's a DHT and that can be detrimental to the hairline. However I know plenty of Kats that run the Test,Tren,Mast combo. It's a winner for sure. Tbol was definitely fun to use, I can say that much. NPP mentally though loses some points. If I could run anything in place of it, id love a recommendation. Combos are fine.

I'll dip into being a bit redundant here but can NPP be done every 3rd day or is it just kind of a waste. Not a complete waste of course but it's Half life is 4 days. I saw Chados say that's fine, but nobody else chimed in haha.
 
I’ll be redundant too. I don’t like it, MWF at least. More effects, smaller depot, less yo-yo of levels, less sides..
 
YamahaC76 said:
Alright, so my next question is regarding NPP and Turinabol. Since I'm not really fat, and can see some abs, I'm probably still 15-16% bf. I still want to put on more muscle weight of course. When it comes down to it, steroids don't burn fat. And I know some tend to shine more on a cut or bulk, but in the end they all put muscle on different ways.

I'm just trying to gauge why one would go with an oral that either deca, tren, or masteron couldn't do, EQ included. I could see running Var in place of masteron though, since it's a DHT and that can be detrimental to the hairline. However I know plenty of Kats that run the Test,Tren,Mast combo. It's a winner for sure. Tbol was definitely fun to use, I can say that much. NPP mentally though loses some points. If I could run anything in place of it, id love a recommendation. Combos are fine.

I'll dip into being a bit redundant here but can NPP be done every 3rd day or is it just kind of a waste. Not a complete waste of course but it's Half life is 4 days. I saw Chados say that's fine, but nobody else chimed in haha.
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It's not optimal buy its not like you wouldn't get gains that way
 
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