Dmz and msten stack suggestions or opinions wanted.

[Spartan lean]

I have seen lots of talk about Dmz vs Msten but how about a combo cycle. Is it worth it to stack them and if so what dosages would be best for lean size gains? Epiandro can be thrown in the mix to help with lethargy. I know a test base would be best for any cycle but that's not an option now.
My thoughts are
20mg msten
30 mg Dmz
600 to 1000mg epiandro
These will be VL products.

Dmz and msten are pretty toxic so lower doses maybe better. I am open for ideas.. I might try a single msten run first just to see how I react/respond to it.

I am not looking to have someone layout a full plan. I am just interested in people's opinions especially if they have ran a combo like this or have ideas.
Looking primarily to gain some keepable mass and increase strength during cycle and then get ready to cut next year.
Will be in a calorie surplus.
Age is mid 40s.
6' 197lb
Consistent training over last 10 years, a lot of it has been conditioning work but switched over to more bodybuilding last 2 years. The conditioning had me in great shape but found it difficult to keep muscle mass up so I switched gears.
Diet in check most of the time.
Usually anywhere from 15to 22% bf depending on cardio and time of year.
I have done 2 epiandro and 1 andro cycles and 1 solo Dmz cycle 30mg ramped to 45mg.
Gained more mass and felt better on Dmz than the combo andro cycle (less lethergy).

On cycle support would be basic otc combo products that include tudca, nac and bp support. I imagine a bit extra tudca would be helpfull. Suggestions are welcome

Would use a pretty standard pct protocol with nolva and otc test booster. Possibly a natty anabolic like Vector during pct also because I have a bottle. Input is welcome.

Would have an AI available through the whole thing as well but not to sure about what one. I could most definitely use advice on that. Better safe than sorry....

Thanks in advance to anybody that gets involved in this thread.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

I’ve ran both dmz and msten, but both never stacked them together. Personally think it’s a bit overkill, but others may disagree. I think msten by itself, or maybe with a test base, would be the better option because it would allow you to see how you respond to it solo. Msten was better than dmz imo. Neither compound should aromatize, but if you wanted to keep an ai on hand, I’d probably go with aromasin.

 

[Old Witch]

I’ve ran both dmz and msten, but both never stacked them together. Personally think it’s a bit overkill, but others may disagree. I think msten by itself, or maybe with a test base, would be the better option because it would allow you to see how you respond to it solo. Msten was better than dmz imo. Neither compound should aromatize, but if you wanted to keep an ai on hand, I’d probably go with aromasin.

Blackstone seemed to think stacking them 1:1 was a good idea. Super DMZ 2.0

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Blackstone seemed to think stacking them 1:1 was a good idea. Super DMZ 2.0

Never really liked how companies made them in stacks like that. I think just offering the two compounds separately would be better. Maybe sometime in the future I’ll run them together to see if it really is that much better.

 

[Spartan lean]

I didnt realize Super DMZ 2.0 was that combo. That was before my time getting into this.

 

[Old Witch]

Never really liked how companies made them in stacks like that. I think just offering the two compounds separately would be better. Maybe sometime in the future I’ll run them together to see if it really is that much better.

It's a 1+1=3 type synergy for sure.... Go for it.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

It's a 1+1=3 type synergy for sure.... Go for it.

I never really believed the whole “synergy” thing about the dmz+msten stack, but I guess I won’t know till I try it

 

[Old Witch]

I never really believed the whole “synergy” thing about the dmz+msten stack, but I guess I won’t know till I try it

Well, with 20mg of each, you'd likely get better results than 60mg of either with the relative sides of only 20mg of whichever is worst for your body. Or thereabouts.

 

[Spartan lean]

I think I will run it like listed above and see how it goes.
What do you guys think would be good dosages for tudca and nac?

 

[AnabolicGuru]

I think I will run it like listed above and see how it goes.
What do you guys think would be good dosages for tudca and nac?

1000mg tudca with cel cycle assist. No need to buy nac separately since cycle assist has it in it, plus a bunch of other ingredients for other aspects.

 

[Spartan lean]

Thanks Guru.
That's what I was thinking or running. Read nothing but good things about cel cycle assist and I have some tudca from VL.

 

[adammorrow36]

Thanks Guru.
That's what I was thinking or running. Read nothing but good things about cel cycle assist and I have some tudca from VL.

Man i ran a combo od 10 mg msten 15 dmz and cant remember how much alpha 1 i cudny domore than a week of it cus the lethargy and lack of apetite was so bad

 

[Matthersby]

It’s better than PB and J. They stack flawlessly. I was lean and strong AF.
20/20 for 30 days. You will love it.
Only thing that may trump it would be SD/M1T 10/10