disabled & considering cycling over obstacles

[Nightwanderer]

Hey folks,
I was born with cerebral palsy (Wiki it) and I was thinking of working out heavily as well as starting a cycle as a way of possibly overcoming my disability.

As you can better imagine with the link provided, CP has caused me to have very little range of motion in my legs. To get a better mental picture, imagine the typical 90 degree angle your legs are when sitting in a chair. Now imagine only being able to extend them
two or three inches because: Not only has CP caused me to have tight, contracted hamstrings and tense muscles, but those hindered hamstrings therefore don't allow me the range of motion to exercise and stretch them to try to improve the situation.
Therefore with my limited movement I can do things like swim with my upper body doing most of the work, but I can't operate machines for things like leg presses, etc. Two things come to my mind with this:

1. Steroids aren't allowed in competition because they allow the body to build significant strength & mass, even with minimal exercise. (I am not saying I think you don't have to work for greatness while using them, if that needs clarifying)
Therefore, I could theoretically get my leg muscles to grow strong enough to where they can stress and stretch my hamstrings on their own at some point. Finally, strength enabling more flexibility, flexibility enabling more strength.

2. Would an activity like swimming be enough to initially induce the obvious results of a cycle, or would it be a waste of supplements? To use jump starting a dead car as an analogy, I'm trying to gague wether or not the initial jolt
will be enough to get things flowing on their own. I'm not expecting to swim while on cycle and end up looking like I've been lifting heavy, I just wonder if a cycle will produce ENOUGH results help me get to where I CAN lift at all.

Causes for concern based on my circumstances would be:
As a disabled person in a wheelchair, my body is far from perfect, but I am happy to say I have a head full of thick hair which I keep long and hope never to lose; my manhood works as well as any other normal guy's, and my libido
has always been very high. My girlfriend can't keep up, to be blunt, and she'd readily admit it. smile.gif Also, I do have the slouchy posture mentioned in the wiki, I've always had to think about it in order to sit up straight. Slouching makes your chest
look a bit droopy as it is. So to summarize, when nice hair and a high libido are two of your few good features from a physical of view, you'd mourn your losses all the more vs. your typical man. And due to the posture, you'd be more worried and self conscious regarding gyno.

Now, I'd like to intercept any questions regarding other treatment options before you post asking about them, to save us both time & effort as well as increase your understanding as to why I'm contemplating cycling.

Surgical lengthening of the hamstrings by way of a 'Z' cut: Insurance will not pay, cost is obscene. Will permanently scar me wether or not I can work my legs hard enough to not inadvertently heal back to how they were in time.

Botox: inject my legs and hips full of a paralyzing neurotoxin synthesized from the disease botulism in doses large enough to where I'd be risking permanent paralysis if the slightest miscalculations are made in dosage or location. I can't believe people shoot this stuff up to appease vanity! ''Cost between 400-600 USD based on estimated dosages per shot with approx. 3-6 shots needed per leg; followed by at least 6 weeks of paralysis, which would take what strength I DO have, thereby risking being to weak to ever work my way back to what strength I have now.'' according to a neurologist I asked.

Occupational/rehab therapy: Costs 100's of dollars per brief session, which insurance (Medicare) will not pay 'because they cannot forsee how much benefit it will do for me vs. what it will cost them per session, especially since i'm an adult, and wouldn't see as much results as a child would'
last time I attempted to seek therapy, from my would be therapist.

Note on financial assistance: I am not a child, terminally ill, a racial 'minority', or religiously affiliated (nor would I pretend to be solely for this purpose). Charities are out and disability related ones prioritize the aforementioned demographics. As a Medicare member I've obviously sought what gov't assistance I can.

So now that we have all of that cleared up I'd like to ask

Is there a minimum amount of time a person should train for before ever starting a cycle?

For a first timer, is Epistane as a stand alone a good choice for someone who wants to take a balanced mass vs. definition approach? I WANT definition, but NEED noticeable strength & at least some mass

If so: Epistane is advertised as being fairly low on the risk scale for gyno, but am I more prone to possible hair loss or libido loss vs. other options?
I have a related post cycle therapy question which I've posted here in the PCT section as 'all-in-one'

EDIT: if anyone within a 2hr drive of Jupiter, FL knows of an open minded doctor who will have an honest and candid conversation with me on the issue, I'd love to get some contacts in order to get qualified
advice & medical supervision should I take this route.

 

[diminuendo]

Good post. It looks like you have thought things out pretty carefully. Just a couple of things. What is your exercise history? Have you noticed a benefit from stretching. I have trained with two guys with CP in the past. My cousin, who is wicked strong, and a guy in my early jiu-jitsu days. Both have been a huge motivating force for me, and remind me that the only insurmountable limitations we have are in our heads not our bodies.

 

[Nightwanderer]

Good post. It looks like you have thought things out pretty carefully. Just a couple of things. What is your exercise history? Have you noticed a benefit from stretching. I have trained with two guys with CP in the past. My cousin, who is wicked strong, and a guy in my early jiu-jitsu days. Both have been a huge motivating force for me, and remind me that the only insurmountable limitations we have are in our heads not our bodies.

As far as exercise history, I've been working out sporadically
ever since my early 20's, usually 2-3 month periods of very intense
upper body lifting and swimming for cardio, while I'm well motivated,
but I typically get bored because of my limitations and end up stopping for weeks, sometimes months. Then I see how my body has become avg. looking or slightly worse and I can't stand it so
I get back into at least decent shape. It's this sort of casual attitude I've always had that made me ask if there's a recommended minimum amount of training time one should have
before ever considering a cycle.
Although, since I'd be doing it
for what boils down to medicinal purposes, and it might provide me with ability I'venever been able to have in the first place, I believe a boost in discipline and motivation would come naturally. Imagine only being able to bench press an inch, because your arms were locked at the elbow all your life; and then rather suddenly getting a little wiggle room due to a strength boost that allows you to eventually 'brute force' the rest of the way to the top over time! You'd probably be so ecstatic you'd never want to stop lifting a day in your life (if it weren't for over training, that is).

I could benefit from stretching, but I'd need the help of a therapist to get it done right. It's a firm but gentle pulling from behind the ankle with one hand while another hand pushes down just above my knee. It's simple in writing but in application you'd have to be trained to know how much pressure is too much or too little, what changes to look for, etc. A non professional could
do more harm than good, and I can't get anyone to pay for the therapy that I can't afford.

P.S. I took japanese ju jitsu briefly back when I was 18 and brasilian jiu-jitsu (a gracie affiliated school) a couple of years
ago for about a year and loved it, grappling is bad-ass and I wish
I had the leg function needed for an effective guard position or I
would never have stopped training! Although I would have switched schools because it was $100 mo. for 2 90 minute sessions a week. I tried aikido for a year and my sensei let me come every day of the week, twice a day if I wanted for $60 a month. There's people who teach solely for money and people who teach for life, love, or art's sake.

 

[Aggravated]

A long time family friend of mine has the same thing and he is a beast! I know that he has had a few corrective surgeries, but his legs do not build up nearly as fast as his upper body. Do not let your disability hold you back man, you are capable of anything you put your mind to and he is proof of that. I wish you the best of luck in your journeys!

 

[Nightwanderer]

Do not let your disability hold you back man, you are capable of anything you put your mind to and he is proof of that. I wish you the best of luck in your journeys!

Yeah,
money for the gym/supplements and solid medical advice are the only things really holding me back at this point, hehe. Wish I could find a way to get someone to sort of act as a benefactor in that capacity.

 

[crader]

You could contact TheUnlikelyToad from here. He has the same thing I believe and he has awesome progress.

 

[warbird01]

I apologize if I'm mistaken but I'm pretty sure unlikelytoad has cp. You should contact him, I'm sure he could help you a lot.

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

I'm not quite sure where to begin with this, but I will surely attempt to help. If you have specific questions please ask.

I personally don't think steroids are your answer. Especially not at this stage in tha game... You want to talk about getting bored? Try using the same 10 pieces of equipment over and over and over again for 8 years because you have no other training options. It's determination, mental toughness, and inner passion that allows you to succeed. I understand that you may not be as fortunate as me, but that sounds more like a quick fix if I ever saw one. I guarentee you if that's indeed your mentality, you may as well reconsider other interests.

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

I could theoretically get my leg muscles to grow strong enough to where they can stress and stretch my hamstrings on their own at some point. Finally, strength enabling more flexibility, flexibility enabling more strength.

Yes, it's possible as it has occurred with me to a certain extent. Whether it's in tha realm of possiblity for you I cannot say, as I'm not sure how tightly wound or degree of spasticity you possess. Regardless, steroid use does not magically give you a greater range of motion from tha onset. You still have to build up those muscles just like anyone else. This will take a great deal of time and effort naturally. Ultimately it can be done under your own diligence at a pace you set (not just cycling times) without tha addition of possible health risks.

 

[Nightwanderer]

Yes, it's possible as it has occurred with me to a certain extent. Whether it's in tha realm of possiblity for you I cannot say, as I'm not sure how tightly wound or degree of spasticity you possess. Regardless, steroid use does not magically give you a greater range of motion from tha onset. You still have to build up those muscles just like anyone else. This will take a great deal of time and effort naturally. Ultimately it can be done under your own diligence at a pace you set (not just cycling times) without tha addition of possible health risks.

Right, I hope I'm not giving people the impression that I view steroids as muscles in a bottle, lol. I'm just saying that I -think- that the initially accelerated muscle growth would give me in the least, an amount of strength to stress my hamstrings beyond what my muscles can naturally attain on their own. So, even when substantial gains fade post cycle, I'm still left with a time window where my hamstrings will have been stressed with force
that the additional rapid increase in mass will have given me, and with diligence I can capitalize on. My frame of mind is this, at least when it comes to drugs and injections: I can be injected with botox and risk wasting away to a worse condition,
or I can inject something that encourages anabolic growth, and with responsble dosing and post cycle therapy, have less risk of further debilitation. Medical pros and cons aside, I also think putting on some serious muscle mass and feeling strong while on cycle would beat the hell out of being paralyzed and feeling horrible about it while under the effects of the botox.

I only wish more doctors were knowledgeable and forthcoming on the issue.

Edit: lol and yeah I really feel you on the boredom thing with the equipment, there's only so many exercises per muscle group that can be done.

 

[ImJ2x]

I know very little about CP, but I tend to agree with Toad -- I don't think steroids are the answer. I can tell you that they do weird, uncomfortable things to your muscles -- spasms, bad cramps, etc. That's probably the last thing you want.
It seems to me you'd be a lot better off finding someone who can help you with your stretching. At least in my humble opinion.
Anyway, I do wish you well. And in many ways, you're stronger than any of us "bros" here. Good luck, man.

 

[Nightwanderer]

I must say,
I'm pleasantly suprised to see people discourage me from making any hasty decisions in regards to anabolics, I just wish that mentality would manifest itself more often when all the 21-23 year olds start asking around. Just wanted to give a quick thanks to all those who have been patient with me as i learn, answering my questions and providing informational resources, etc. this community deserves a solid reputation. I've learned a ton
about this particular facet of the bodybuilding community so far in my relatively short time here so far. One look at my post count and you can see what I'm up to when not either training, eating, or nagging the gf for quality time. Although, roughly 100 of those were for the 3ad lotto entries, lol.

 

[ImJ2x]

I'd encourage you to keep up the training, eating, and gf stuff for now. And if you really get curious about "augmenting" your genetics (and we all do -- this can be a very addictive hobby, lol), start with the "non-hormonals," before even considering steroids. There's a ton of them to research, with some very nice options.

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

I'd encourage you to keep up the training, eating, and gf stuff for now. And if you really get curious about "augmenting" your genetics (and we all do -- this can be a very addictive hobby, lol), start with the "non-hormonals," before even considering steroids. There's a ton of them to research, with some very nice options.

x2

This is a big part of why I've never used anabolics. Moreover, what Nightwanderer wants to do is just theory at this point. Although it appears practical, it boils down to building enough muscle in specific bodyparts. This could be obtained without AAS use IF within Nightwanderer's realm of possibility.

Again, I only speak this through my own experience and adversity. I've put on 30+ pounds of lbm over an 8 year time frame. With all that muscle, actual range of motion has changed very little.

 

[ReaperX]

Just wondering, but since CP has a tendency to limit range of motion to a certain extent, does this mean that additional reps/sets are needed to get the adequate muscle stimulation needed ?

 

[futurepilot]

Have you tried deep tissue massage?

It would be interesting to see if you could do some intense sessions on your hams while supplementing with a good anabolic.

I would normally say no superdrol to a newb but if you know what your doing, and your willing to put the effort into trying this full throttle, it the most powerful thing out there, on this side ofthe law.

If you tried deep tissue massage as many times a week as you could afford, in addition to your other exercises, like swimming, ill bet you could definitly loosen up your legs. Massage envy is only 20 a half hour, i dont know if they have those by you, its a chain by me, and with the addition of AAS your muscles would heal immediatly from all that stimulation.

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

Just wondering, but since CP has a tendency to limit range of motion to a certain extent, does this mean that additional reps/sets are needed to get the adequate muscle stimulation needed ?

For me, yes.

You've heard tha old phase "Use it or lose it"... that pretty much applys here. What doesn't get used (mostly through daily life) atrophys very quickly. It's a constant uphill battle with bodyparts that are slower to respond due to weak neuro-electrical firing.

 

[Nightwanderer]

x2

...Moreover, what Nightwanderer wants to do is just theory at this point. Although it appears practical, it boils down to building enough muscle in specific bodyparts. ....I've put on 30+ pounds of lbm over an 8 year time frame. With all that muscle, actual range of motion has changed very little.

Provocative idea though, no? Unfortunate to see your own results with the mass vs. motion, do you think then that it's more of a direct result of neurological issues then rather than a self perpetuating side effect?

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

Provocative idea though, no? Unfortunate to see your own results with the mass vs. motion, do you think then that it's more of a direct result of neurological issues then rather than a self perpetuating side effect?

What additional benefit I've received has been greater flexibility (mobility) and a reduction in overall spasticity. To this there has been SOME changes in range of motion but nothing drastically significant. I see most of it as neurological, however part of it is physical too. For instance, I believe my muscle inserts are a bit smaller on my left side. I also have a shorter left leg, clubbed foot and unequal distribution of bodyweight. This throws my balance off quite a bit.

I view workouts out as a form of physical therapy. It's tha constant repetitive motions that has helped condition my muscle to become more relaxed, less taunt and simulated what it feels like to fire a muscle with a weak response. It has allowed me to have better control over my body via mind and muscle connection.

 

[ReaperX]

I utilize partial reps coupled with very high volume to make progressive gains in my training.

Typically this is 1/2-3/4 rep range of motion. It is based off Arnold's principle of having constant tension of the muscle.

I switch back and forth with this type of training and TUT. These are the 2 training methods I've had best results with.

Everything like DC, 5x5, and whatever else is out there has never really worked for me.

My lower body (legs) I have tremendously good genetics and I really only squat heavy for 4 sets and that's it. Also calf raises (i switch up the exercises).

I stopped doing hamstring curls, seated curls, and leg presses. There's no point anymore.

My upperbody though is extremely challenging to bring up, probably because I have less fast twitch fibers in them, so my theory is to completely stimulate them with excess volume, dropsets, and failure. This has given me the best results naturally, as I do not use drugs/steroids/etc.

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

High volume works well for me too. But what's high volume for me might be average for someone else. Typically I try for 16 sets for large bodyparts and 8 for small throughout a given week. Every 4-6 weeks I reduce either reps, sets or weight and add in additional off days for 2 weeks and crank up my volume again.