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Dextrose v. WMS: Which is better in terms of recovery pre, during, and post WO??

footster said:
hmm. I've just always used a premade creatine (SizeOn) so I've never really thought of WMS. However, for the summer and all you guys are talking about bloating..how long would that stay once you stopped? Advice? and do some not experience the bloating?
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It's usually caused by larger amounts of dextrose in during/post workout drinks... The bloat is temporary, lasting the rest of the day at most (for me).
 
I take the WMS and dextrose and bcaa's and creatine(sometimes premixed) And I have no bloating. I don't take the dextrose or the WMS for the "insulin spike". I do have to take a good leak about thirty minutes later though.
 
someone brought up a good point. They say WMS has no extra sugar and dex does. So carbs do break down into sugar correct? Or is there a difference between carbs and sugar..I know that sound obvious but if there is a simple answer?
 
My understanding is that the WMS get the creatine, bcaa's and dextrose into the muscles easier.
The dextrose is a simple sugar that feeds the muscles. The bcaa's are building blocks and creatine helps get water into the muscle.I could be totally wrong.
 
footster said:
someone brought up a good point. They say WMS has no extra sugar and dex does. So carbs do break down into sugar correct? Or is there a difference between carbs and sugar..I know that sound obvious but if there is a simple answer?
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Well, WMS is a complex(ish) carbohydrate, whereas dextrose is as simple as they come, a straight up sugar. Generally, sugars have a much quicker affect on the body's insulin levels.. Starches take longer to digest, and must be broken down into their sugary constituents before they really can impact the insulin response. The deal with WMS is that it is structured in such a way that it digests supa fast, so, many believe it can be used very similarly to dextrose intra/post workout.
 
smeton_yea said:
what is CHO?

Pro is protein right?

so you can take luecine without taking any other Bcaa's and get just about the same benefits?

Purple wrath is kick ass and I like the fact that there's no L-glut in it because L-glut is best absorped on an empty stomach at least 30 mins after or before a meal
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CHO is carbohydrate. Where did the idea come from that a starch is more quickly digested than glucose? As a monosaccharide and the physiologic "blood sugar", glucose is rapidly absorbed and utilized, causes a nice insulin spike that loads glucose and amino acids into the muscle and has been studied extensively. I can't find any scientific justification for waxy maize starch. Timing of intake seems to be at least as important as the type of carbohydrate postworkout.
 
Big BAMA said:
My understanding is that the WMS get the creatine, bcaa's and dextrose into the muscles easier.
The dextrose is a simple sugar that feeds the muscles. The bcaa's are building blocks and creatine helps get water into the muscle.I could be totally wrong.
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No, insulin gets the aminos and dextrose into the muscles. Dextrose is probably the best loader of water into muscles because as it is stored as glycogen, it draws water into the muscle.
 
jeezz..maybe ill just try WMS. But some people take pre or post workout. WHich is the best time? or does it depends whats in the mix?
 
footster said:
someone brought up a good point. They say WMS has no extra sugar and dex does. So carbs do break down into sugar correct? Or is there a difference between carbs and sugar..I know that sound obvious but if there is a simple answer?
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Its just a name game. People have an irrational fear of sugar so to avoid putting sugar on the label they put waxy maize starch instead. When it is broken down, waxy maize starch turns into "sugar". Sugars and starches as well as fiber are all carbohydrates.
 
sethroberts said:
No, insulin gets the aminos and dextrose into the muscles. Dextrose is probably the best loader of water into muscles because as it is stored as glycogen, it draws water into the muscle.
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All carbohydrates will store water when being stored as glycogen so dextrose can't be given the title for that (which is why a lot of endurance athletes carb up as well during their pre game stuff, for the added hydration benefits. Its something like for every 1 gram of glycogen your body stores 2.7 grams of water.)

sethroberts said:
Its just a name game. People have an irrational fear of sugar so to avoid putting sugar on the label they put waxy maize starch instead. When it is broken down, waxy maize starch turns into "sugar". Sugars and starches as well as fiber are all carbohydrates.
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Again all carbohydrates will be broken down into simple sugars in the body, WMS is not a simple sugar and is a chain. They wouldn't have to put "sugar" on the label either way.
 
OCCFan023 said:
All carbohydrates will store water when being stored as glycogen so dextrose can't be given the title for that (which is why a lot of endurance athletes carb up as well during their pre game stuff, for the added hydration benefits. Its something like for every 1 gram of glycogen your body stores 2.7 grams of water.)



Again all carbohydrates will be broken down into simple sugars in the body, WMS is not a simple sugar and is a chain. They wouldn't have to put "sugar" on the label either way.
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Dextrose is another name for glucose -- they are the same thing. No other sugar other than glucose is stored in the body as glycogen. That is, all sugar is first converted to glucose and then stored as glycogen. Glycogen is a chain of glucose molecules bound together.


By the way, all carbohydrates will not necessarily be broken down into simple sugars in the body. Most fibers (for example cellulose) can not be broken down by the body. But of course, you knew that
If they put dextrose in their product they would have to list it as sugar on the label -- WMS is listed under carbohydrates but not as sugar -- or at least it should be listed under carbohydrates.

By the way, not all carbohydrates are broken down into simple sugars in the body. Fiber (cellulose for example) is not broken down by the body. But of course, you knew that.
 
sethroberts said:
Dextrose is another name for glucose -- they are the same thing. No other sugar other than glucose is stored in the body as glycogen. That is, all sugar is first converted to glucose and then stored as glycogen. Glycogen is a chain of glucose molecules bound together.


By the way, all carbohydrates will not necessarily be broken down into simple sugars in the body. Most fibers (for example cellulose) can not be broken down by the body. But of course, you knew that
If they put dextrose in their product they would have to list it as sugar on the label -- WMS is listed under carbohydrates but not as sugar -- or at least it should be listed under carbohydrates.

By the way, not all carbohydrates are broken down into simple sugars in the body. Fiber (cellulose for example) is not broken down by the body. But of course, you knew that.
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Wow man chill out, people get so defensive (and yes I did know that fiber is not broken down by the body and was referring to general use carbs pre/intra/post.)

Furthermore are you talking about the nutritional profile of WMS or the actual label (the previous post made it sound like you were talking about a promotional selling standpoint.) Also what list are you talking about s a labeled carb or sugar? Again promotional selling stand points?

edit: I don't understand why you think that WMS (i.e carb slam) would need to list it as a sugar on the nutritional label if you weren't talking about the actual label.
 
sethroberts said:
Its just a name game. People have an irrational fear of sugar so to avoid putting sugar on the label they put waxy maize starch instead. When it is broken down, waxy maize starch turns into "sugar". Sugars and starches as well as fiber are all carbohydrates.[/QUOTE

But don't all Body builders say stay away from sugars...they make you weaker and sh#t. Maybe there is more too it.
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OCCFan023 said:
Wow man chill out, people get so defensive (and yes I did know that fiber is not broken down by the body and was referring to general use carbs pre/intra/post.)

Furthermore are you talking about the nutritional profile of WMS or the actual label (the previous post made it sound like you were talking about a promotional selling standpoint.) Also what list are you talking about s a labeled carb or sugar? Again promotional selling stand points?
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Your previous post sounded a little testy to me so I responded in kind. On a label, there should be a section for carbohydrates and under carbohydrates should be a listing for sugars and one for dietary fiber. All carbs are listed under carbohydrates, sugars are listed under sugars and fiber under fiber. WMS should be listed under carbohydrates.

There is little evidence for waxy maize starch doing anything special is the point I was getting at. The most critical factors for postworkout seem to be quantity of carbohydrate ingested and the timing of ingestion.

By the way, I wasn't bashing your product in particular -- there are plenty of them out there with WMS. Nothing bad really but just more marketing than substance.
 
bodybuilders don't "stay away from sugars", its just that they don't knock back 2 twinkies with every meal either. Plain sugar has its place in the right amounts, just like anything else.
 
sethroberts said:
Your previous post sounded a little testy to me so I responded in kind. On a label, there should be a section for carbohydrates and under carbohydrates should be a listing for sugars and one for dietary fiber. All carbs are listed under carbohydrates, sugars are listed under sugars and fiber under fiber. WMS should be listed under carbohydrates.

There is little evidence for waxy maize starch doing anything special is the point I was getting at. The most critical factors for postworkout seem to be quantity of carbohydrate ingested and the timing of ingestion.

By the way, I wasn't bashing your product in particular -- there are plenty of them out there with WMS. Nothing bad really but just more marketing than substance.
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Believe me man I wasn't being testy so apologies if you took it that way (I just like discussing different view points. Also I don't have any products so its just an example ~ also which that I don't use.)

Also I am familiar with the carbohydrate label lol. So your saying a separate section under general carbohydrates labeled as WMS?

I couldn't agree with you more on the marketing of WMS and lack of scientific evidence for any increase in recovery over dex/malto/other various carb sources. I personally just use low gi complex carbs from whole foods pre/post and in the future will use dex intra with some P-Slin to see its recovery benefits.

Easy ~ you never heard of the 5 Twinkie post w/o strategy for insane mass gains? You've been missing out :D

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EasyEJL said:
bodybuilders don't "stay away from sugars", its just that they don't knock back 2 twinkies with every meal either. Plain sugar has its place in the right amounts, just like anything else.
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true. I understand there are certain needs from sugars. I guess with everyone going back and forth and what should be labeled what, if a carb breaks down to sugar which is stored as glycogen...then why is there a carb label and a sugar label?
 
footster said:
true. I understand there are certain needs from sugars. I guess with everyone going back and forth and what should be labeled what, if a carb breaks down to sugar which is stored as glycogen...then why is there a carb label and a sugar label?
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Because they have very different structures. Also, with time of insulin release/digestion they are very different.
 
and so then if "sugar is first converted to glucose and then stored as glycogen. Glycogen is a chain of glucose molecules bound together" then I thought carbs are broken down into sugars. My heads spinning for some reason, im sorry

carbs>sugar>glucose>glycogen

sugar>glucose>glycogen

this is what im not understand with carbs.
 
footster said:
and so then if "sugar is first converted to glucose and then stored as glycogen. Glycogen is a chain of glucose molecules bound together" then I thought carbs are broken down into sugars. My heads spinning for some reason, im sorry

carbs>sugar>glucose>glycogen

sugar>glucose>glycogen

this is what im not understand with carbs.
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To clarify, you're confused by the fact that carbs are broken down, only to be built up again into glycogen, and sugar is converted to something even more simple, only to be built up and stored again?

If that's what you're not understanding, then I can def. understand.. Assuming that's what it is, I hope this helps:

Carbohydrates/Starches are plants' main method of sugar storage (similar to our own glycogen storage), so before we can lodge sugar into our own muscle from carbs, it must be built into something that our body can work with, in this case, that is glycogen.
 
Carb label is the total amount of carbs and then is broken down into what makes up that total Carb amount (Sugar, Fiber, etc, because like O said they have different molecular construction)
 
its about the speed of those chemical interactions. sugar will all go into bloodstream as glucose at once, and spike insulin. complex carbs have to get converted to glucose, which doesn't happen all at once. 30g of oats takes time to be converted to glucose, so you are getting a stream of it over the span of an hour or more. 30g of sugar goes all into bloodstream at once as glucose in minutes.
 
ozarkaBRAND said:
To clarify, you're confused by the fact that carbs are broken down, only to be built up again into glycogen, and sugar is converted to something even more simple, only to be built up and stored again?

If that's what you're not understanding, then I can def. understand.. Assuming that's what it is, I hope this helps:

Carbohydrates/Starches are plants' main method of sugar storage (similar to our own glycogen storage), so before we can lodge sugar into our own muscle from carbs, it must be built into something that our body can work with, in this case, that is glycogen.
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kinda starting to get it dude, thanks for the patience. Everyone else as well. I just didnt get the seperation if carbs and sugar break down to the same thing. B/c Ive seen 30g of carbs but 0g of sugars. but now i understand how..i think lol.
 
wait just thought of something as i had a little glass of CranGrape juice. It has 35 grmas of carbs and 35 grams of sugar..isnts that the same of 1/2 and 1/2 of doing WMS and DEX? or am i way off? simple and complex sugar right?
 
no, thats all sugar. the carbs # includes the sugar # as part of it. so if it was 35g carbs and 17g sugars then...
 
I like to eat fruit. Ill usually eat it if I'm taking more calories. If Im cutting I might take it postraining and maybe other times.

postraining right now I use honey and fruit or honey and dextose.(of course with protein powder or amino's or both)
 
smeton_yea said:
I like to eat fruit. Ill usually eat it if I'm taking more calories. If Im cutting I might take it postraining and maybe other times.

postraining right now I use honey and fruit or honey and dextose.(of course with protein powder or amino's or both)
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During cutting I eat well over 6 fruit servings a day. I cut the best when eating natural and whole foods...always have.
 
Base you choice on stomach bloating

Many of you keep saying there is not much difference from WMS and Dextrose other than less bloating.
Isn't less bloating a major reason to go with WMS and forget about the extra cost?
What other choices are there for fast acting carbs that do not cause the dreaded bloating?
Of course cost is always a big factor but I for one do not need to feel like my intestines are going to explode, especially if I have just worked out so I can be nice and pumped for a night out on the town.
 
Retrobeast said:
Many of you keep saying there is not much difference from WMS and Dextrose other than less bloating.
Isn't less bloating a major reason to go with WMS and forget about the extra cost?
What other choices are there for fast acting carbs that do not cause the dreaded bloating?
Of course cost is always a big factor but I for one do not need to feel like my intestines are going to explode, especially if I have just worked out so I can be nice and pumped for a night out on the town.
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Take some Acidophilus...you'll be fine ;)
 
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