Debating on coming off Trt

[Codster951]

Are there any true supporting fact on Trt being unsafe? My wife hates the fact I’m on it and says I’m not going to be around long for my kids to grow up. I’m a 32 yr make with primary hypoG. What are your thoughts. I need to reassure her that this is safer than have low testosterone.

 

[Jm88888]

In for this discussion. Cause I’m considering the opposite.

 

[jdm23]

In for discussion. Same as Jm88888

 

[LiveToLift]

Are there any true supporting fact on Trt being unsafe? My wife hates the fact I’m on it and says I’m not going to be around long for my kids to grow up. I’m a 32 yr make with primary hypoG. What are your thoughts. I need to reassure her that this is safer than have low testosterone.

I'll tag along for some feedback on this. It's very difficult to judge this without more info on what you are doing as far as doctor prescribed and monthly testing. Along with what supports you are running but I would love to hear what some strong minds have to say on here.

 

[kenpoengineer]

There are tons of research supporting maintaining good testosterone levels. There are just as many explaining the health hazards of low testosterone.

 

[Codster951]

I originally came on Trt after I went to the docs for low T, he said it is primary HypoG but I still think it was induced from messing with pro hormones when I was younger and had no clue what I was doing. I suffered from horrible anxiety and depression. I still do from time to time. I have been on this protocol for about 4 years 100mg test cip and doc now has the test blender with anastrozal. I came off last year via clomid to have a child and was successful but my levels dropped right back off after I discontinued clomid. So I’m guessing my hpta axis cannot be reset.

 

[kenpoengineer]

Check out Dr S ally’s HPTA Restart.
https://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?7714-Dr-Scally-s-most-current-Restart-Protocol

 

[kisaj]

Are there any true supporting fact on Trt being unsafe? My wife hates the fact I’m on it and says I’m not going to be around long for my kids to grow up. I’m a 32 yr make with primary hypoG. What are your thoughts. I need to reassure her that this is safer than have low testosterone.

Can't blame her, there has been a lot of FUD surrounding testosterone for years and it's association with steroids. However, we have known for years now and education only increases, about the dangers of low testosterone and benefits of addressing this. There are obvious concerns with mismanagement of protocol and lifestyle choices that can be highlighted when on exogenous test, but this is present regardless. I would argue that people on TRT with a reputable doctor are actually safer than your average Joe because we actually get lab work, know when things are not in line and address it. This results in more awareness of our bodies, improved relationships with our doctor, and general health. So, I would present that angle and if needed, offer up reading material online to ease her mind.

Then go give her a hug because it's great that she is thinking bigger picture and wanting to make sure you are around for her and the kids.

 

[Power-Lift]

After training for 39 years w/ out ever touching a needle (Ive done some PH's) I jumped on TRT at age 50. (Last year). I honestly didnt feel that great on it.
(I did at first, but then the prostate thing acted up (swollen, hard to piss), anxiety kicked in big-time (all anabolics do that to me), hair shedding, the constant tests, monitoring, etc. I said to myself "for life, nah, not for me" (yet). I'll revisit in 9 years or so at age 60. I'm going to go back to do my 30 day cycles (Like Nano 1T w/ a small test dose (short 4 week cycle) then 4 week PCT (Clomid, Nolva, support stuff, hCG), then 4 weeks of health supps only to clean out, and go for my quarterly bloods for statins.

4 weeks of sides I can take, not 100% full time, not fun for me. some dont get any of those sides, I get hit hard by them. (everyone's different).
Ive been reading about short cycles (Nelson Montana, Bill Reynolds) and its just what I want to do for now. Good luck w/ whatever you choose, just wanted to share my recent experience.

 

[sammpedd88]

What Kisaj wrote is the gospel man! If you need to be on TRT then you’re doing more harm and risking more life threatening illnesses not being on it. Communicate with the wife too!

 

[trtdoc]

Research shows being on TRT does not increase the risk of sudden, premature death. Actually, it is the opposite. Individuals with Low T are at a increased risk for severe heart related issue.

Also, it depends on genetics and lifestyle. I do not recommend coming off TRT, you will regret.. all patients do.

 

[Power-Lift]

I do not recommend coming off TRT, you will regret.. all patients do.

Again, Im probably a rare case, so I think the work "all" is incorrect in my situation. I came off and feel WAY better than when on.
Night and day. Glad I did for now, I will re-visit down the line when older... Its a powerful drug/hormone, and I'm sure there may be others out there like me where it may not agree with their physiology.

 

[sammpedd88]

Again, Im probably a rare case, so I think the work "all" is incorrect in my situation. I came off and feel WAY better than when on.
Night and day. Glad I did for now, I will re-visit down the line when older... Its a powerful drug/hormone, and I'm sure there may be others out there like me where it may not agree with their physiology.

Just curious but could you provide details of your TRT situation and how you were able to come off?

 

[Jcc7220]

I was reading that someone ran hcg while on TRT to keep there testicles functioning In case they ever wanted to come off. How would that work I thought running hcg for to long shuts down signals to make the testicle function.

 

[sammpedd88]

I was reading that someone ran hcg while on TRT to keep there testicles functioning In case they ever wanted to come off. How would that work I thought running hcg for to long shuts down signals to make the testicle function.

There are some that run HCG for the reason you mentioned. That way if they wanted to have kids, it would liken the chance they could get their wife pregnant. Most guys don’t run HCG, with the exception I just listed, due to HCG sometimes makes it hard to dial in your E2. With that being said, there’s some guys on here, Kenpoengineer in specific, that is now being treated through Entourage for TRT. They include HCG in their protocol and Kenpo said he hasn’t had a problem. I’ve contemplated adding HCG but it’s expensive around here and I don’t think my insurance pays for it. $75 a month out of pocket and personally I don’t think it’s worth it at this point. To my knowledge HCG will not shutdown your natural function since it signals LH receptors to produce.

 

[kenpoengineer]

There are some that run HCG for the reason you mentioned. That way if they wanted to have kids, it would liken the chance they could get their wife pregnant. Most guys don’t run HCG, with the exception I just listed, due to HCG sometimes makes it hard to dial in your E2. With that being said, there’s some guys on here, Kenpoengineer in specific, that is now being treated through Entourage for TRT. They include HCG in their protocol and Kenpo said he hasn’t had a problem. I’ve contemplated adding HCG but it’s expensive around here and I don’t think my insurance pays for it. $75 a month out of pocket and personally I don’t think it’s worth it at this point. To my knowledge HCG will not shutdown your natural function since it signals LH receptors to produce.

Correct. I’ve added HCG at 250 IU every 3.5 day since September 2017. I’m 57 and not interested in keeping up fertility but more interested in HCG’s ability to “backfill” other hormones. Here is a good summary of HCG:
https://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?8260-Human-Chorionic-Gonadotropin-–-By-Gene-Devine

 

[Jcc7220]

I think the problem is it shuts down or damages your body ability to signal your LH receptors to produce.
That’s why I was wondering how they would run it.

 

[kenpoengineer]

I think the problem is it shuts down or damages your body ability to signal your LH receptors to produce.
That’s why I was wondering how they would run it.

As a TRT user your natural testosterone production is already completely shut down.

 

[Jcc7220]

As a TRT user your natural testosterone production is already completely shut down.

So as someone that doesn’t need TRT or for someone that does but wants to remain fertile. In theory? All they have to do is run a low dose of HCG while on a cycle or TRT and there balls will never shut down.
Why don’t people do that instead of starting at the end of a cycle for pct?
What if they ran a heavy cycle like say with trenbolone would it still be effective?

 

[kenpoengineer]

This may help you:
https://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?435-The-Use-of-HCG-to-Prevent-Reverse-Testicular-Shrinkage-and-Preserve-Fertility

 

[Jcc7220]

This may help you:
https://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?435-The-Use-of-HCG-to-Prevent-Reverse-Testicular-Shrinkage-and-Preserve-Fertility

Excellent, thank you

 

[LMuscle]

After training for 39 years w/ out ever touching a needle (Ive done some PH's) I jumped on TRT at age 50. (Last year). I honestly didnt feel that great on it.
(I did at first, but then the prostate thing acted up (swollen, hard to piss), anxiety kicked in big-time (all anabolics do that to me), hair shedding, the constant tests, monitoring, etc. I said to myself "for life, nah, not for me" (yet). I'll revisit in 9 years or so at age 60. I'm going to go back to do my 30 day cycles (Like Nano 1T w/ a small test dose (short 4 week cycle) then 4 week PCT (Clomid, Nolva, support stuff, hCG), then 4 weeks of health supps only to clean out, and go for my quarterly bloods for statins.

4 weeks of sides I can take, not 100% full time, not fun for me. some dont get any of those sides, I get hit hard by them. (everyone's different).
Ive been reading about short cycles (Nelson Montana, Bill Reynolds) and its just what I want to do for now. Good luck w/ whatever you choose, just wanted to share my recent experience.

What do you think caused the anxiety? High estradiol?

 

[Jcc7220]

I may be wrong in your case just trying to help, (Food for thought) but from personal experience with depression and anxiety,

You get so used to feeling *crappy* *Down* *Low Libido*, (whatever word you want to use) that becomes normal, almost comfortable. Now you go on TRT or anti depressants and you start to feel better but your feeling better actually is an uncomfortable place to be and can cause a different anxiety that your not used to feeling, this new anxiety or form of anxiety is out of your comfort zone. So you associate the anxiety from the medication but in turn there are deeper underlining issues.

 

[John Smeton]

hows your lab results look?

 

[LMuscle]

I may be wrong in your case just trying to help, (Food for thought) but from personal experience with depression and anxiety,

You get so used to feeling *crappy* *Down* *Low Libido*, (whatever word you want to use) that becomes normal, almost comfortable. Now you go on TRT or anti depressants and you start to feel better but your feeling better actually is an uncomfortable place to be and can cause a different anxiety that your not used to feeling, this new anxiety or form of anxiety is out of your comfort zone. So you associate the anxiety from the medication but in turn there are deeper underlining issues.

I had terrible anxiety after starting TRT, even though e2 checked out around 20

 

[bruno.camilo]

i am on trt for many years i am 33 y'old. I guess 4 years now, and yes, i have anxiety as well. Dunno why that happens, i guess endogenous test causes this. It is not the same test as the one made by ours balls. I use Clonazepan(Rivotril), and some low dosed anti depressent and low dosed anastrozol. But even so i fell anxiety. But i just cant let test go. I am addicted to it muscles properties and gaining.

Its complicated as everything in life, one day we are all gonna die, so, i chose the endogenous test path for life. But i am no 100% happy, the worst side is depression and anxiety.

 

[trtdoc]

Well said, Bruno- sometimes you just have to weight the benefits vs the negatives. Many times the benefits far outweigh the negs!

Hang in there brother!

Dr B

 

[Georgiepecker]

Can't blame her, there has been a lot of FUD surrounding testosterone for years and it's association with steroids. However, we have known for years now and education only increases, about the dangers of low testosterone and benefits of addressing this. There are obvious concerns with mismanagement of protocol and lifestyle choices that can be highlighted when on exogenous test, but this is present regardless. I would argue that people on TRT with a reputable doctor are actually safer than your average Joe because we actually get lab work, know when things are not in line and address it. This results in more awareness of our bodies, improved relationships with our doctor, and general health. So, I would present that angle and if needed, offer up reading material online to ease her mind.

Then go give her a hug because it's great that she is thinking bigger picture and wanting to make sure you are around for her and the kids.

Too bad her info is pretty much wrong though lol

 

[hairygrandpa]

i am on trt for many years i am 33 y'old. I guess 4 years now, and yes, i have anxiety as well. Dunno why that happens, i guess endogenous test causes this. It is not the same test as the one made by ours balls. I use Clonazepan(Rivotril), and some low dosed anti depressent and low dosed anastrozol. But even so i fell anxiety. But i just cant let test go. I am addicted to it muscles properties and gaining.

Its complicated as everything in life, one day we are all gonna die, so, i chose the endogenous test path for life. But i am no 100% happy, the worst side is depression and anxiety.

Have you tried 25mg/d of proviron with your TRT? For me it made a big difference, feeling less anxious and more energetic.

 

[The Matrix]

Sorry you are going through this, in this case was presented to me, i would not throw more drugs at to .I would run an Organic Acid Test through Great Plains along with Dutch complete hormone profile along with blood work that can be ordered on line. There are many underlying pathologies to anxiety which is often a simple of deeper cause. Doctors are specialist not generalist who look at the 30,000 ft view to see how the dots are all connected. Treat the symptoms not the cause typical what is seen..

 

[bruno.camilo]

Have you tried 25mg/d of proviron with your TRT? For me it made a big difference, feeling less anxious and more energetic.

I am taking 5mg cialis ed. Dunno if it is the same effect as proviron.

 

[sammpedd88]

I am taking 5mg cialis ed. Dunno if it is the same effect as proviron.

Why would proviron and Cialis have the same effects? They’re two different classes of drugs?

 

[hairygrandpa]

I am taking 5mg cialis ed. Dunno if it is the same effect as proviron.

Please google Proviron and anxiety. Also note that apparently a low dose Proviron (25mg) could cause more anxiety, meanwhile a higher dose (50mg-100mg) could make it go away. There are a lot of studies on DHT (Proviron) on mental effects, please google it!

 

[bruno.camilo]

Why would proviron and Cialis have the same effects? They’re two different classes of drugs?

Ye actually i heard many times about proviron but i never researched it. Fact is that cialis is helping me on libido but not on anxiety.

 

[sammpedd88]

Ye actually i heard many times about proviron but i never researched it. Fact is that cialis is helping me on libido but not on anxiety.

Why would you think Cialis would help with anxiety? Proviron is an anabolic and can cause anxiety. Also Cialis is not for libido. It helps with erections only. There’s nothing in Cialis that boosts libido. You’re probably experiencing a placebo effect.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Why would you think Cialis would help with anxiety? Proviron is an anabolic and can cause anxiety. Also Cialis is not for libido. It helps with erections only. There’s nothing in Cialis that boosts libido. You’re probably experiencing a placebo effect.

Please, google DHT and anxiety. Proviron could make a hell of a difference for sufferers of anxiety -and the anabolic properties are almost zero.
Only because FDA puts the label "anabolic" on it, doesn't mean sh1t.

 

[sammpedd88]

Please, google DHT and anxiety. Proviron could make a hell of a difference for sufferers of anxiety -and the anabolic properties are almost zero.
Only because FDA puts the label "anabolic" on it, doesn't mean sh1t.

Your other post just said Proviron could cause anxiety at small doses. That’s the point I was making.

 

[sammpedd88]

Please google Proviron and anxiety. Also note that apparently a low dose Proviron (25mg) could cause more anxiety, meanwhile a higher dose (50mg-100mg) could make it go away. There are a lot of studies on DHT (Proviron) on mental effects, please google it![/QUOTE

 

[sammpedd88]

Please google Proviron and anxiety. Also note that apparently a low dose Proviron (25mg) could cause more anxiety, meanwhile a higher dose (50mg-100mg) could make it go away. There are a lot of studies on DHT (Proviron) on mental effects, please google it![/QUOTE

Disregard this post

 

[bruno.camilo]

Ye, actually Cialis help me with libido and erection. Viagra helps me only with erection. Dont think it is placebo, go figure.

As proviron i am still researching, but Rivotril(clonazepan) is helping big time with anxiety.

thx to all.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Your other post just said Proviron could cause anxiety at small doses. That’s the point I was making.

Ye, actually Cialis help me with libido and erection. Viagra helps me only with erection. Dont think it is placebo, go figure.

As proviron i am still researching, but Rivotril(clonazepan) is helping big time with anxiety.

thx to all.

I suffered from panic attacks years ago. The only thing doctors prescribe are benzos -and I swore I would never use them, because they put you in a zombie-like state. After going on TRT, my panic attacks vanished, especially when E2 is controlled (A rise in E2 triggers it for me).
When using Proviron on TRT, it acts in part as an AI and frees testosterone. For me the ideal combination, hence my recommendation.
As we all respond differently to any hormonal changes, the proviron dosage has to be established first. Hair loss and prostata swelling are sides of DHT, so smaller doses are better IF they work for anxiety (but could even trigger anxiety).
Another reason why I recommend that OP tries Proviron is: It enhances libido. I saw he is on cialis AND viagra -meaning he has ED. ED in this case may be triggered by sudden hormonal fluctuations, like E2 too low for a few days -then E2 too high for a few days. Proviron could even out those fluctuations and no PDE5 inhibitor would be needed anymore.

 

[sammpedd88]

I suffered from panic attacks years ago. The only thing doctors prescribe are benzos -and I swore I would never use them, because they put you in a zombie-like state. After going on TRT, my panic attacks vanished, especially when E2 is controlled (A rise in E2 triggers it for me).
When using Proviron on TRT, it acts in part as an AI and frees testosterone. For me the ideal combination, hence my recommendation.
As we all respond differently to any hormonal changes, the proviron dosage has to be established first. Hair loss and prostata swelling are sides of DHT, so smaller doses are better IF they work for anxiety (but could even trigger anxiety).
Another reason why I recommend that OP tries Proviron is: It enhances libido. I saw he is on cialis AND viagra -meaning he has ED. ED in this case may be triggered by sudden hormonal fluctuations, like E2 too low for a few days -then E2 too high for a few days. Proviron could even out those fluctuations and no PDE5 inhibitor would be needed anymore.

Glad you got off the benzos. Drs over prescribe those and pain meds. Some do good with low doses but most, like you said, get the zombie like state.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Glad you got off the benzos. Drs over prescribe those and pain meds. Some do good with low doses but most, like you said, get the zombie like state.

For men with anxiety issues, who do not want to jump on TRT, I would suggest to lower estrogen with a low dose (once weekly) AI.
Docs are overlooking that high estrogen/and-or low testosterone could be a cause.

 

[hanslifts]

I suffered from panic attacks years ago. The only thing doctors prescribe are benzos -and I swore I would never use them, because they put you in a zombie-like state. After going on TRT, my panic attacks vanished, especially when E2 is controlled (A rise in E2 triggers it for me).
When using Proviron on TRT, it acts in part as an AI and frees testosterone. For me the ideal combination, hence my recommendation.
As we all respond differently to any hormonal changes, the proviron dosage has to be established first. Hair loss and prostata swelling are sides of DHT, so smaller doses are better IF they work for anxiety (but could even trigger anxiety).
Another reason why I recommend that OP tries Proviron is: It enhances libido. I saw he is on cialis AND viagra -meaning he has ED. ED in this case may be triggered by sudden hormonal fluctuations, like E2 too low for a few days -then E2 too high for a few days. Proviron could even out those fluctuations and no PDE5 inhibitor would be needed anymore.

Can you get Proviron legally in the USA with a prescription?

 

[unitas27]

Can you get Proviron legally in the USA with a prescription?

Nope. It's not prescribed in the United States.

 

[hanslifts]

Nope. It's not prescribed in the United States.

Cool. Thanks. So underground is the only way?

 

[hairygrandpa]

Can you get Proviron legally in the USA with a prescription?

Cool. Thanks. So underground is the only way?

I live in a Bananaland, no idea how Proviron is handled in US. Its basically oral Masterone.

 

[hanslifts]

I live in a Bananaland, no idea how Proviron is handled in US. Its basically oral Masterone.

So do you get Proviron easily in Bananaland? By the way, I ****ing love bananas.

 

[hairygrandpa]

So do you get Proviron easily in Bananaland? By the way, I ****ing love bananas.

At any pharmacy. The truth is, you get anything easy here, women, drugs, STD's .

 

[hanslifts]

At any pharmacy. The truth is, you get anything easy here, women, drugs, STD's .

Lol!