DC Guy's log

dcguy4u

New member
Hello All:
Evereybody has a log , I thought I will start one too. It will be much easier to track all the information. I have been lurking on these boards for a while now.
I am currently 32 years old and my main problem is ED and low libido. Up until I was 29 years old, ED/ low libido never crossed my mind. I have been having these problems for 3 years. I have been to Urologists , Endos and Shrinks and they tell me , its in my head. My Endo ordered some blood work in March 07 and here it is :

Total T : 372 ng/dL (241 - 827)

free T : 15.2 pg/mL (8.7 - 25.1 )

Estradiol: 20 pg/mL (0-53)

Thyroxine T4 free (direct): 1.37 ng/dL (.61 - 1.76)

TSH : 2.534 uIU/mL (0.350 - 5.500)
(TSH test done a week ago came out to 1.9 uIU/mL)


T3 : 107 ng/dL (85- 205)

LH : 3.6 mIU/mL (1.5 -9.3)

FSH : 2.3 (doc told me this over the phone , dont know the range)

Prolactin : 9.6 ng/mL (2.1 - 17.7)

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin. Serum (SHBG) : 21 nmol/L (13-71)

PSA : 0.6 ng/mL (0.0 - 4.0). this was done using bayer Chemiluminescence assay.


Cholestrol : 151 MG/DL (125 - 200)

Triglyceride : 144 mg/dl (< 150)

HDL Cholestrol : 33 mg/dl (> 39)

LDL Cholestrol , calculated: 89 mg/dl (0 - 100)

GFR Estimated > 60 ml/min/1.73m2 ( > or = 60 )

---------------------------------------------------------

After reading all of the posts here and on meso board. I decided to see Dr M in california in June 07. I sent him my blood work above and on top of that he ordered more blood work. That is below:

Folate, Serum : 17.8 ng/mL (>5.4)

Vitamin B12 , Serum : 495 pg/mL (200 - 1100)

Insulin, Serum : 6 uIU/mL ( < 17 uIU/mL)

DHEA - S : 335 mcg/dL (110 - 370)

Progesterone: 0.80 nh/mL (0.3 - 1.2) - is this high ?

Pregnenolone : < 10 ng/dL (10 - 200 ) - is this low ?

Cortisol (AM) : 10.9 ug/dL (4.0 - 22.0)

T4 , Total : 9.3 ug/dL (4.5 - 12.5)

T3, Total : 120 ng/dL (60 - 181)

T3, Free : 339 pg/dL (230 - 420)

T4, Free Non Dialysis : 1.38 ng/dL (0.8 - 1.8)

TSH : 1.7 uIU/mL (0.4 - 5.5)

GFR Estimated: > 60 mL/min/1.73m2 (> or = 60)

Vitamin A Retinol : 58 mcg/dL (38 - 98)

Hematalogy : (No. of things here but it says "Platelets appear adeqaute"). I can post if someone is interested in giving me opinion on this.

Chemistry : A lof of values here too. All in the range. I can post if someone is interested in giving me opinion on this.


--------

URINE

Iodine : 164 ug/L (42 - 350)


Based on the above values Dr. M said , I have adeqaute T and I dont need T now , may be later in life. He diagnosed me with adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism (notice I have had three TSH Tests in two months and my values were 2.5 , 1.9 and 1.7 ). I was prescribed the following:

HydroCortisone

Synthetic T4

DHEA

Vitamin B Complex

Vitamin A

Vitamin B12

Selenium


I have been on the above mentioned protocol for two months. I dont notice much change either way. My ED and libido are worst as ever. I am still continuing with the protocol.

----------------------------------------------------------
However I also decided to see Shippen. I am seing him soon:
He put me on clomid stimulation test for a week (50 mg clomid at bed time) and here are values :

DHEA - S : 241 mcg/dL (110 - 370)

T , Total : 612 ng/dL (241 - 827)

LH , Serum : 7.2 mIU / mL (1.5 - 9.3)

FSH , Serum : 4.6 mIU/mL (1.6 - 8.0)

Cortisol AM : 20.6 ug/dL (4.0 - 22.0)

Estradiol : 25 pg/mL

Vitamin D , 25 - Hydroxy, Total : 30 ng/mL (20 - 100 )

Vitamin D , 25-OH, D3 : 30 ng/mL

Vitamin D, 25-OH, D2 : < 4 ng/mL



I see that I am secondary and all . But notice that my Cortisol AM went up from 10 to 20 (I am on HC prescribed by Dr M) but my DHEA went down from 335 to 241, even though I have been on DHEA 25 mg ever since i have been on HC 10 mg in AM and PM. DHEA is not being absorbed in oral form ? I mentioned this to Dr M and he said , he hasn't seen in not being absorbed in oral form so I should be fine.


Off hand I see my pregenlone as also a problem. Experts please chime in . You feedback and help is appreciated.
 
dcguy4u said:
Hello All:
Evereybody has a log , I thought I will start one too. It will be much easier to track all the information. I have been lurking on these boards for a while now.
I am currently 32 years old and my main problem is ED and low libido. Up until I was 29 years old, ED/ low libido never crossed my mind. I have been having these problems for 3 years. I have been to Urologists , Endos and Shrinks and they tell me , its in my head. My Endo ordered some blood work in March 07 and here it is :

Total T : 372 ng/dL (241 - 827)

free T : 15.2 pg/mL (8.7 - 25.1 )

Estradiol: 20 pg/mL (0-53)

Thyroxine T4 free (direct): 1.37 ng/dL (.61 - 1.76)

TSH : 2.534 uIU/mL (0.350 - 5.500)
(TSH test done a week ago came out to 1.9 uIU/mL)


T3 : 107 ng/dL (85- 205)

LH : 3.6 mIU/mL (1.5 -9.3)

FSH : 2.3 (doc told me this over the phone , dont know the range)

Prolactin : 9.6 ng/mL (2.1 - 17.7)

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin. Serum (SHBG) : 21 nmol/L (13-71)

PSA : 0.6 ng/mL (0.0 - 4.0). this was done using bayer Chemiluminescence assay.


Cholestrol : 151 MG/DL (125 - 200)

Triglyceride : 144 mg/dl (< 150)

HDL Cholestrol : 33 mg/dl (> 39)

LDL Cholestrol , calculated: 89 mg/dl (0 - 100)

GFR Estimated > 60 ml/min/1.73m2 ( > or = 60 )

---------------------------------------------------------

After reading all of the posts here and on meso board. I decided to see Dr M in california in June 07. I sent him my blood work above and on top of that he ordered more blood work. That is below:

Folate, Serum : 17.8 ng/mL (>5.4)

Vitamin B12 , Serum : 495 pg/mL (200 - 1100)

Insulin, Serum : 6 uIU/mL ( < 17 uIU/mL)

DHEA - S : 335 mcg/dL (110 - 370)

Progesterone: 0.80 nh/mL (0.3 - 1.2) - is this high ?

Pregnenolone : < 10 ng/dL (10 - 200 ) - is this low ?

Cortisol (AM) : 10.9 ug/dL (4.0 - 22.0)

T4 , Total : 9.3 ug/dL (4.5 - 12.5)

T3, Total : 120 ng/dL (60 - 181)

T3, Free : 339 pg/dL (230 - 420)

T4, Free Non Dialysis : 1.38 ng/dL (0.8 - 1.8)

TSH : 1.7 uIU/mL (0.4 - 5.5)

GFR Estimated: > 60 mL/min/1.73m2 (> or = 60)

Vitamin A Retinol : 58 mcg/dL (38 - 98)

Hematalogy : (No. of things here but it says "Platelets appear adeqaute"). I can post if someone is interested in giving me opinion on this.

Chemistry : A lof of values here too. All in the range. I can post if someone is interested in giving me opinion on this.


--------

URINE

Iodine : 164 ug/L (42 - 350)


Based on the above values Dr. M said , I have adeqaute T and I dont need T now , may be later in life. He diagnosed me with adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism (notice I have had three TSH Tests in two months and my values were 2.5 , 1.9 and 1.7 ). I was prescribed the following:

HydroCortisone

Synthetic T4

DHEA

Vitamin B Complex

Vitamin A

Vitamin B12

Selenium


I have been on the above mentioned protocol for two months. I dont notice much change either way. My ED and libido are worst as ever. I am still continuing with the protocol.

----------------------------------------------------------
However I also decided to see Shippen. I am seing him soon:
He put me on clomid stimulation test for a week (50 mg clomid at bed time) and here are values :

DHEA - S : 241 mcg/dL (110 - 370)

T , Total : 612 ng/dL (241 - 827)

LH , Serum : 7.2 mIU / mL (1.5 - 9.3)

FSH , Serum : 4.6 mIU/mL (1.6 - 8.0)

Cortisol AM : 20.6 ug/dL (4.0 - 22.0)

Estradiol : 25 pg/mL

Vitamin D , 25 - Hydroxy, Total : 30 ng/mL (20 - 100 )

Vitamin D , 25-OH, D3 : 30 ng/mL

Vitamin D, 25-OH, D2 : < 4 ng/mL



I see that I am secondary and all . But notice that my Cortisol AM went up from 10 to 20 (I am on HC prescribed by Dr M) but my DHEA went down from 335 to 241, even though I have been on DHEA 25 mg ever since i have been on HC 10 mg in AM and PM. DHEA is not being absorbed in oral form ? I mentioned this to Dr M and he said , he hasn't seen in not being absorbed in oral form so I should be fine.


Off hand I see my pregenlone as also a problem. Experts please chime in . You feedback and help is appreciated.
Click to expand...

Exactly, get script for compounded pregnenolone cream,
100mg/1gram, use 1gram/day.
PM me for good price.
-----------------------------------------------
I do not see much value in Clomid stimulation.
If it shows hope he will put you on just HCG,
that again my work or not.
Instead of Clomid I would go for HCG right away.
If it does not work, HCG+T shots.
-----------------------------------------------
Synthetic T4;----
This is on premise that your body can convert T4 --> t3
Often that does not work.
Direct Armour Thyroid provides both T4 & T3, also T1 & T2
With T3, Free : 339 pg/dL (230 - 420)
you have a room for 2.5 -3 grains of Armour, (learn ins and outs of how to increase Armour's dose, slooow).
-----------------------------------------------
(SHBG) : 21 nmol/L (13-71) just about right
Prolactin : 9.6 ng/mL (2.1 - 17.7) may want to re-look when others are fixed, dr Shippen likes it at 3
DHEA - S : 335 mcg/dL (110 - 370) revisit this after you have used pegnenolone cream for a while, you want it close to 600
Cholestrol : 151 MG/DL (125 - 200) find a way to get it to 180, steaks, eggs, fish oil,
You want FreeT~250
on dr Shippen chart.
With your SHBG level that mean you need
TT~875
do not poo-poo too long with clomid and hcg experiments, and when they end and you need T, do not experiment further with transdremals. They like to do that, I wasted too much time on this to like it.
Go fot Depo_T
and on shots do not start on basic 100mg/week.
Unless your SHBG changes, at this time you will need
120mg/week, use E3D schedule.
Then blood test in 2 moths, adjust dose.
-------------------------------------------------------
When blood testing I recomend my list, post #44
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html

If you do
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
from my blood test list, most likely you do not need to refer to chart on post #41
jusr go by results of this test. It is the best I know of, the (LC/MS/MS) in the name is important.
---------------------------------------------------------
I think you do not test for Cortisol while on HC
DHEA pills did not worked for me, wait until after pregnenolone cream, if you still need DHEA, add it as a cream from same place that did the preg cream.
 
JanSz said:
Exactly, get script for compounded pregnenolone cream,
100mg/1gram, use 1gram/day.
PM me for good price.
-----------------------------------------------
I do not see much value in Clomid stimulation.
If it shows hope he will put you on just HCG,
that again my work or not.
Instead of Clomid I would go for HCG right away.
If it does not work, HCG+T shots.
-----------------------------------------------
Synthetic T4;----
This is on premise that your body can convert T4 --> t3
Often that does not work.
Direct Armour Thyroid provides both T4 & T3, also T1 & T2
With T3, Free : 339 pg/dL (230 - 420)
you have a room for 2.5 -3 grains of Armour, (learn ins and outs of how to increase Armour's dose, slooow).
-----------------------------------------------
(SHBG) : 21 nmol/L (13-71) just about right
Prolactin : 9.6 ng/mL (2.1 - 17.7) may want to re-look when others are fixed, dr Shippen likes it at 3
DHEA - S : 335 mcg/dL (110 - 370) revisit this after you have used pegnenolone cream for a while, you want it close to 600
Cholestrol : 151 MG/DL (125 - 200) find a way to get it to 180, steaks, eggs, fish oil,
You want FreeT~250
on dr Shippen chart.
With your SHBG level that mean you need
TT~875
do not poo-poo too long with clomid and hcg experiments, and when they end and you need T, do not experiment further with transdremals. They like to do that, I wasted too much time on this to like it.
Go fot Depo_T
and on shots do not start on basic 100mg/week.
Unless your SHBG changes, at this time you will need
120mg/week, use E3D schedule.
Then blood test in 2 moths, adjust dose.
-------------------------------------------------------
When blood testing I recomend my list, post #44
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html

If you do
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
from my blood test list, most likely you do not need to refer to chart on post #41
jusr go by results of this test. It is the best I know of, the (LC/MS/MS) in the name is important.
---------------------------------------------------------
I think you do not test for Cortisol while on HC
DHEA pills did not worked for me, wait until after pregnenolone cream, if you still need DHEA, add it as a cream from same place that did the preg cream.
Click to expand...

JansZ,
Do you actually think I am hypothyroid ? I mean I have no symptoms of hypothyroidism. Dr M diagnosed be based on some physical exam that I didn't really understand. He said my eyebrows are thin (I have actually very thick dark eye brows). When I mentioned my eyebrows are thick , he said they are thin on outside. I have been looking at eyebrows of ppl ever since. 90% of the people have thin eyebrows on the outside. Neverthless I asked him why synthtic T4 and why not armor. He told me that armor in my case can create T3 Vs T4 imbalance.

You know I don't even feel fatigued / brain fogged or anything. Just plain ED with low libido. I don't know I may be hypothyroid but I have no classic symptom.


On other note:
Shippen's protocol is HCG only in cases of secondary . He does that first and then it that doesnt work he goes on to T + HCG. I have to let him make a call , right ?

Pls advice.
 
dcguy4u said:
JansZ,
Do you actually think I am hypothyroid ? I mean I have no symptoms of hypothyroidism. Dr M diagnosed be based on some physical exam that I didn't really understand. He said my eyebrows are thin (I have actually very thick dark eye brows). When I mentioned my eyebrows are thick , he said they are thin on outside. I have been looking at eyebrows of ppl ever since. 90% of the people have thin eyebrows on the outside. Neverthless I asked him why synthtic T4 and why not armor. He told me that armor in my case can create T3 Vs T4 imbalance.

You know I don't even feel fatigued / brain fogged or anything. Just plain ED with low libido. I don't know I may be hypothyroid but I have no classic symptom.


On other note:
Shippen's protocol is HCG only in cases of secondary . He does that first and then it that doesnt work he goes on to T + HCG. I have to let him make a call , right ?

Pls advice.
Click to expand...

Yes he is your dr but your the one that has to live with your self every day so thats a choice you should have, but give it a chance not 3-4 months though..
 
dcguy4u said:
JansZ,
Do you actually think I am hypothyroid ? YESI mean I have no symptoms of hypothyroidism. Dr M diagnosed be based on some physical exam that I didn't really understand. He said my eyebrows are thin (I have actually very thick dark eye brows). When I mentioned my eyebrows are thick , he said they are thin on outside. I have been looking at eyebrows of ppl ever since. 90% of the people have thin eyebrows on the outside. Neverthless I asked him why synthtic T4 and why not armor. He told me that armor in my case can create T3 Vs T4 imbalance.

You know I don't even feel fatigued / brain fogged or anything. Just plain ED with low libido. I don't know I may be hypothyroid but I have no classic symptom.


On other note:
Shippen's protocol is HCG only in cases of secondary . He does that first and then it that doesnt work he goes on to T + HCG. I have to let him make a call , right
Pls advice.? I have given you my advice and reasoning, it is up to you if you want to listen to that advice, your life.
Click to expand...

hhhhhhhhhhhh
 
Dr. Shippen had me tested for Vitamin D ? Anybody knows what is the significance ? I found some material on Vitamin D and hyperparathyroidism. Dont know how hyperparathyroidism affects sexual function. Any body knows ?
 
dcguy4u said:
Dr. Shippen had me tested for Vitamin D ? Anybody knows what is the significance ? I found some material on Vitamin D and hyperparathyroidism. Dont know how hyperparathyroidism affects sexual function. Any body knows ?
Click to expand...

Vtiamin D increaes LH and also can improve thyuroid, adrenal function. Think of it this way when your a kid weren't you hornier in the summer time and why did the romans practice in the nude and where one of the most successful empire. Sunlight heals called helio therapy.
 
Ok So I saw Dr Shippen today and according to him :

1. I am not hypthyroid.

2. I don't have adrenal fatigue.

3. My T is low but not low enough to give me problems that I am having with erections and libido.

Dr M on other hand diagnosed me with hypothyroidism and adrenal fatigue.

wtf ?? Who do I believe ?

I have been put in clomid 3 times a week 15 mg for six weeks , if that doesn't work then it's HCG for me.
 
your definetly hypothyroid...subclinical but hypo. usually (but not always) this means that you also have adrenal issues, thus teh NORMAL values on TSH.

Your T is low because your thyroid/adrenals are an issue and you dont have any vitamin D...which is a grand daddy precursor to all hormones.

Why your vite D (and anyone's) is low I am still researching. But definetly take some vitamin d and try to get direct sunlight everyday.

You might also have some digestion issues, thus the low vit d. THis often occurs with adrenal issues?

WHy the visit to BOTH Dr. M and Dr. Shippen? Why dont you just trust the first and follow what he says.
 
Scottyo said:
your definetly hypothyroid...subclinical but hypo. usually (but not always) this means that you also have adrenal issues, thus teh NORMAL values on TSH.

Your T is low because your thyroid/adrenals are an issue and you dont have any vitamin D...which is a grand daddy precursor to all hormones.

Do you have studies/resources that point to this ? I have been looking for something on this .

Why your vite D (and anyone's) is low I am still researching. But definetly take some vitamin d and try to get direct sunlight everyday.

You might also have some digestion issues, thus the low vit d. THis often occurs with adrenal issues?

In my 32 years of life I have not known what its like to have a digestion issue. Never ever I was constipated , for not even once. My bowels move like a charm.

WHy the visit to BOTH Dr. M and Dr. Shippen? Why dont you just trust the first and follow what he says.
I have been on Dr M's protocol for three months , I haven't noticed any thing significant.
Click to expand...

see above
 
hardasnails1973 said:
Vtiamin D increaes LH and also can improve thyuroid, adrenal function. Think of it this way when your a kid weren't you hornier in the summer time and why did the romans practice in the nude and where one of the most successful empire. Sunlight heals called helio therapy.
Click to expand...

This is all absolutely true.

Vit D is the biggie. Its the big boy bad azz of the vitamin world.
 
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