Dbol vs Deca

[Smont]

If you do go the adrol route...ive dosed 50, up to 100, mg prewo and the pumps were fukin nuts. Dunno if others can attest to this but damn it was too much coincidence to be any other factor.

100mg anadrol or 30mg superdrol pre workout, both of those about half to 3/4 of the way through my workout I will get pumps in weird little muscles that almost feel like I'm getting a charlie horse, last time I did it I was doing machine preacher curls and had to stop, it was so painful I started laughing hysterically like some kind of defense mechanism to ignore the pain. No exaggeration

 

[BBiceps]

If you do go the adrol route...ive dosed 50, up to 100, mg prewo and the pumps were fukin nuts. Dunno if others can attest to this but damn it was too much coincidence to be any other factor.

Does it matter when you dose it or pre workout is the best time?

When I used Sdrol I had an insane pump/cramp in places that I normally don’t get it, like quads, made it impossible to run, lol, I barely did a mile and the pumps was so bad in quads, calves and lower back I had to walk back. I dosed it all kinds of times but the pump/cramp did not go away.

 

[BBiceps]

100mg anadrol or 30mg superdrol pre workout, both of those about half to 3/4 of the way through my workout I will get pumps in weird little muscles that almost feel like I'm getting a charlie horse, last time I did it I was doing machine preacher curls and had to stop, it was so painful I started laughing hysterically like some kind of defense mechanism to ignore the pain. No exaggeration

I know what you mean, it sucks.

 

[Smont]

I feel like sd you can take literally pre workout, like 15-30min before the gym, anadrol I feel like you need to give it a little more time, like a hour or 2. That's just me tho

 

[Smont]

Does it matter when you dose it or pre workout is the best time?

When I used Sdrol I had an insane pump/cramp in places that I normally don’t get it, like quads, made it impossible to run, lol, I barely did a mile and the pumps was so bad in quads, calves and lower back I had to walk back. I dosed it all kinds of times but the pump/cramp did not go away.

I feel like it gives you those bad cramping pumps in your weaker muscles. Like doing biceps, it wasn't the bicep that cramped, it was a little muscle in my inner elbow area. Legs I get it in my shins, back is always lower back. All of wich are smaller weaker areas

 

[Smont]

The other day I was listening to a couple guys break down the protocols of some big name coaches. They were recommending taking anadrol in 1 dose before bed, dbol and SD the were saying take it pre workout. None of the coaches seemed to spread out there orals evenly through the day except for using small doses of anadrol on carb loading with each meal

 

[Nac]

Yeah according to my logs I was dosing adrol 30-60mins prewo.

If you find extreme pumps more of a hindrance to performance maybe don't risk dosing then. You can always trial it a few times, of course.

There's at least 2 schools of thought. One is, let the oilz provide the anabolic steady state for the protein synthesis and dose the orals for acute effects. So, getting the best of both worlds. The other is, obviously, spread the orals out to get closer to steady drug levels.

To me, you obviously go for the latter to minimize sides from larger acute doses. Or if you just don't care for prewo effects.

Personally I don't think either strategy is necessarily 'better' in terms of gainz.

 

[Smont]

Yeah according to my logs I was dosing adrol 30-60mins prewo.

If you find extreme pumps more of a hindrance to performance maybe don't risk dosing then. You can always trial it a few times, of course.

There's at least 2 schools of thought. One is, let the oilz provide the anabolic steady state for the protein synthesis and dose the orals for acute effects. So, getting the best of both worlds. The other is, obviously, spread the orals out to get closer to steady drug levels.

To me, you obviously go for the latter to minimize sides from larger acute doses. Or if you just don't care for prewo effects.

Personally I don't think either strategy is necessarily 'better' in terms of gainz.

I forgot who always says it but... Drugs work! There's not a massive difference in how you take them when it comes to gains

 

[bad rad]

I forgot who always says it but... Drugs work! There's not a massive difference in how you take them when it comes to gains

Multiple studies show that it's total androgen load that matters most. So shorter, high dose cycles are as effective as low dose, long cycles per the studies. Kinda like calories in, calories out is the biggest factor for diet.

 

[Smont]

Multiple studies show that it's total androgen load that matters most. So shorter, high dose cycles are as effective as low dose, long cycles per the studies. Kinda like calories in, calories out is the biggest factor for diet.

I definitely do better on long cycles vs short cycles, I probably just do for the fact that it takes time to actually build muscle. But as far as dosing guidelines go it definitely doesn't matter for me if I spread things out or take them all at once. Injection frequency seems to help me about side effects but definitely not change my results in strength/size/progress ect. With orals it seems weather I take it all at once daily, or a larger dose 3-4x a week pre workout or smaller divided doses daily. They all seem to produce the same outcome

 

[Mathb33]

I definitely do better on long cycles vs short cycles, I probably just do for the fact that it takes time to actually build muscle. But as far as dosing guidelines go it definitely doesn't matter for me if I spread things out or take them all at once. Injection frequency seems to help me about side effects but definitely not change my results in strength/size/progress ect. With orals it seems weather I take it all at once daily, or a larger dose 3-4x a week pre workout or smaller divided doses daily. They all seem to produce the same outcome

It’s funny you talk about orals only 3-4 times a week.. I’ve been thinking about that after seeing MPMD talk about if he ever blasted again he would use orals only on workout days. We’ve been saying about how important blood concentration is and all that for 20+ And now everybody is just saying... but is it really important for orals that have small half life like dbol superdrol etc... say you’re working out 4-5 times a week and you take your doses split pre workout / post workout or something. I’m really tempted to try that and I’m sure it would be as good while avoiding some toxicity..

 

[Smont]

It’s funny you talk about orals only 3-4 times a week.. I’ve been thinking about that after seeing MPMD talk about if he ever blasted again he would use orals only on workout days. We’ve been saying about how important blood concentration is and all that for 20+ And now everybody is just saying... but is it really important for orals that have small half life like dbol superdrol etc... say you’re working out 4-5 times a week and you take your doses split pre workout / post workout or something. I’m really tempted to try that and I’m sure it would be as good while avoiding some toxicity..

I think it's a good way to limit toxicity or give time to "filter" it out between doses. You get the chemical signals during your workout and a increase in strength leading to more weight and more reps that should eventually equate to more growth. I'm sure having constantly steady levels would be slightly better for gains if we were using it extremely long times like injectables. But because we don't it almost seems better to strategically use them based on the need of the workout.

That wasn't mpmd idea either. He's gathered that from listening to a bunch of other ppl say that's how the do it.

 

[Smont]

There's also something to be said with timing orals specific with meals because even the food gets a response out of it.

 

[Mathb33]

There's also something to be said with timing orals specific with meals because even the food gets a response out of it.

Yeah that was my thought too about pre workout / post workout doses... just like food and insulin ... I’m sure the orals would be best used around training window. I might try that

 

[Smont]

I dont know anything for certain, it just seems to work good that way, you hear a lot of people doing it and the reason behind it makes sense. And it's simple to remember to take it at that time. Seems like a win across the board

 

[BBiceps]

What you guys thinking about dosing before bed? That seems to be good for recovery, right? It was someone on here, I forgot who it was, that dosed his orals pre bed on workout days only. I think it was the rep/owner of some company that sponsored that had DMZ/M-sten.

 

[Whisky]

What you guys thinking about dosing before bed? That seems to be good for recovery, right? It was someone on here, I forgot who it was, that dosed his orals pre bed on workout days only. I think it was the rep/owner of some company that sponsored that had DMZ/M-sten.

i do normally if I’m splitting doses but literally only because first thing and last thing is easiest for me to remember. I have stuff I year found at those times so for my blast I add whatever oral it is.

no science behind that timing, for me if someone said take it an hour before training for optimal results I’d forget most days and not taking it at all would be worse than taking at a less optimal time imo

 

[Smont]

What you guys thinking about dosing before bed? That seems to be good for recovery, right? It was someone on here, I forgot who it was, that dosed his orals pre bed on workout days only. I think it was the rep/owner of some company that sponsored that had DMZ/M-sten.

I think the reason behind the anadrol before bed was just to avoid digestive distress, don't think there's any more to it, but I could be wrong

 

[Mathb33]

What you guys thinking about dosing before bed? That seems to be good for recovery, right? It was someone on here, I forgot who it was, that dosed his orals pre bed on workout days only. I think it was the rep/owner of some company that sponsored that had DMZ/M-sten.

I think as mentionned above the only real benefits of taking it before bed time is just to avoid some of the possible sides.. lethargy, feeling nauseous etc. If anything after all we know now, I would want the peak of my orals during workout / after especially. Just as good is more efficient post workout, I guess it would make sense for orals too since their half life is so short.Tbh I don’t think there’s much of a difference when you take it during the day.

 

[Smont]

I think as mentionned above the only real benefits of taking it before bed time is just to avoid some of the possible sides.. lethargy, feeling nauseous etc. If anything after all we know now, I would want the peak of my orals during workout / after especially. Just as good is more efficient post workout, I guess it would make sense for orals too since their half life is so short.Tbh I don’t think there’s much of a difference when you take it during the day.

I would think taking it pre workout you will still have the majority of it in your system post workout. So between pre,intra and post workout nutrition and the workout itself your leaching everything out of that oral.

No science here, just the direction my train of thought is going.

On a separate note with orals pre workout....
I also came across this being talked about last night. Sd or dbol pre workout for things that involve more need for power and strength.

Anadrol and to a lesser degree tbol and anavar for workouts that require higher volume and more of a mind muscle connection

Tbol and winny for things that involve more athletic stuff.


If you really think about the half lives and what the drugs are used for outside of bodybuilding it kinda all makes sense

 

[Smont]

I start threads every once in a while trying to get people going on topics like these to bounce ideas around and share personal experience more then what the studies say and they always fail. Either someone takes the question out of context and sends it a different direction or I get little to no responses.

Here you make a thread about dbol vs. deca and we get a nice conversation about timing orals and making uses out of them for specific or special situations ect.

Im gonna start a thread on baking pies and hopefully someone will turn it into a conversation on igf-1 pathways

 

[BBiceps]

It is interesting to talk about different dosing schedules and like someone already said, it seems like it doesn’t matter much for results in the end.

I was trying to dose Sdrol in all kind of ways to get away from the pump/cramps and did pre bed for awhile but the results and the cramping seemed to be the same, I haven’t really felt a major boost in dosing pre workout either so I will most likely dose first thing in morning or pre bed when I start with the Adrol.

Like @Smont said I think it could be an idea to dose pre cheat or pre high carb meals, I done it before I “think” I got less bloat the next day but that’s just “bro science”.

Thanks for your guys input!

 

[Smont]

On a somewhat relevant note, on the drugs n stuff podcast with Scot McNally and Dave crossland they were talking about the importance of steady levels and what not for injectables, but when it came to tren e, Dave said he found less side effects in doing your whole dose 1x per week. Didn't go too deep into any reasoning but that was definitely the first time I heard that before

 

[Hyde]

It is interesting to talk about different dosing schedules and like someone already said, it seems like it doesn’t matter much for results in the end.

I was trying to dose Sdrol in all kind of ways to get away from the pump/cramps and did pre bed for awhile but the results and the cramping seemed to be the same, I haven’t really felt a major boost in dosing pre workout either so I will most likely dose first thing in morning or pre bed when I start with the Adrol.

Like @Smont said I think it could be an idea to dose pre cheat or pre high carb meals, I done it before I “think” I got less bloat the next day but that’s just “bro science”.

Thanks for your guys input!

I have often used strong orals like M1T immediately postWO in a growth phase because I found they didn’t really change my strength dosing preWO but the blood pressure spike actually inhibited my training heavily. And Ameen made the point it should cause less heart hypertrophy.

Last cycle I took my orals preWO (Var, Mithras, Trendione) on my 3 training days and pre-bed on off days. Noticed much less appetite impact vs spreading them out or taking them earlier in the day. Sometimes the Tren would disrupt sleep if I took it too early though; I had to wait until I was in bed to dose and go right to sleep.

Berberine pre cheat will help prevent some starch absorption.

On a somewhat relevant note, on the drugs n stuff podcast with Scot McNally and Dave crossland they were talking about the importance of steady levels and what not for injectables, but when it came to tren e, Dave said he found less side effects in doing your whole dose 1x per week. Didn't go too deep into any reasoning but that was definitely the first time I heard that before

Scott McNally seems like a really nice guy, but his advice seems really uneducated. I mean it’s just all broscience to the truest degree. Test is best and all that crap - testosterone is the most primitive father steroid we use. It does what it does well but it’s not specific to any job. Just blasting more and more test is like using a sledgehammer for any purpose instead of a finer tool. He always seems like he’s learning during the interview, while trying to present it as education.

Also, anadrol is the most heavily used POWER drug in POWERlifting, because it has greater neurological impact. Var next, especially for women. They are better power drugs than Dbol. Dbol is just a great feel good drug; if you feel like a testy gorilla that confidence will help you lift more. But don’t discount the more subtle effects of the others as less than in effect.

 

[Smont]

I have often used strong orals like M1T immediately postWO in a growth phase because I found they didn’t really change my strength dosing preWO but the blood pressure spike actually inhibited my training heavily. And Ameen made the point it should cause less heart hypertrophy.

Last cycle I took my orals preWO (Var, Mithras, Trendione) on my 3 training days and pre-bed on off days. Noticed much less appetite impact vs spreading them out or taking them earlier in the day. Sometimes the Tren would disrupt sleep if I took it too early though; I had to wait until I was in bed to dose and go right to sleep.

Berberine pre cheat will help prevent some starch absorption.



Scott McNally seems like a really nice guy, but his advice seems really uneducated. I mean it’s just all broscience to the truest degree. Test is best and all that crap - testosterone is the most primitive father steroid we use. It does what it does well but it’s not specific to any job. Just blasting more and more test is like using a sledgehammer for any purpose instead of a finer tool. He always seems like he’s learning during the interview, while trying to present it as education.

Also, anadrol is the most heavily used POWER drug in POWERlifting, because it has greater neurological impact. Var next, especially for women. They are better power drugs than Dbol. Dbol is just a great feel good drug; if you feel like a testy gorilla that confidence will help you lift more. But don’t discount the more subtle effects of the others as less than in effect.

None of the things I talked about were Scott McNally advice, the thing with the tren just happened to be on the podcast he was hosting.

The stuff about the orals I believe was something from Boston loyd, Baue something who is a coach and someone else on a separate podcast

 

[Smont]

I do agree with Scott being a bad source of cycle advice, everything he says is textbook advice from like 15 years ago

 

[Hyde]

None of the things I talked about were Scott McNally advice, the thing with the tren just happened to be on the podcast he was hosting.

The stuff about the orals I believe was something from Boston loyd, Baue something who is a coach and someone else on a separate podcast

I really love those podcasts with Bostin & Bleau. Very enjoyable content & guys, and lots of real practical experience with tons of clients. Once I found them I have tried to listen to most of them.

But speaking practically from experience and talking to others, Anadrol & Anavar are first draft oral choices in power sports. Also terrific bodybuilding drugs of course, because they are just great all around. But I didn’t want anyone to discount them for acute training usage on a whim.

I mean Chad Nichols having his guys use Anadrol before bed to help avoid appetite issues makes sense to me (same reason I was taking mine before bed), but that’s not to say Dan Bell is making suboptimal choices by using that during a world record squat either. It’s the right choice for both scenarios.

 

[Smont]

I really love those podcasts with Bostin & Bleau. Very enjoyable content & guys, and lots of real practical experience with tons of clients. Once I found them I have tried to listen to most of them.

But speaking practically from experience and talking to others, Anadrol & Anavar are first draft oral choices in power sports. Also terrific bodybuilding drugs of course, because they are just great all around. But I didn’t want anyone to discount them for acute training usage on a whim.

I mean Chad Nichols having his guys use Anadrol before bed to help avoid appetite issues makes sense to me (same reason I was taking mine before bed), but that’s not to say Dan Bell is making suboptimal choices by using that during a world record squat either. It’s the right choice for both scenarios.

I've recently found that too, I've Ben trying to go back and watch them all, I catch one or 2 clips from those guys every day. I was never a fan of the Leo longevity guy but since he brought them in I'm loving it

 

[Hyde]

I've recently found that too, I've Ben trying to go back and watch them all, I catch one or 2 clips from those guys every day. I was never a fan of the Leo longevity guy but since he brought them in I'm loving it

Exact same. Not always factual, lots of bropinion, but enjoyable banter nonetheless with some interesting nuggets.

 

[BBiceps]

Ok, so I decided to go with the Anadrol, it’ll be another 2 weeks before I can start but I think I’ll dose first thing in the morning first to see how I feel and then dose before bed.