Dancing with 'tropins: BodyWizard's GH experiment

[EEmain]

BW.. Hex must be kicking in. I sleep well but last night was something else.
Fell out at about 10:15pm awoke at 6am as usual but I never once woke up and can`t remember any dreams at all (this is unusual) also feel like I slept for days:yawn: pumps have been really good last 2 WO`s. Taking in lots of complex carbs, mostly oats 2-4 cups per day(breakfast SHAKE: 2 cups oats 1-scoop whey 1 scoop MPI) and 2 cups on PWO.


Going to go to night time dosing after 2 off days...

 

[BodyWizard]

Sleep has been really good for me so far, though Ecto has brought no dreams to me (for which Hex is somewhat notorious). I'm starting to lose the bags under my eyes (and my hair is *definitely* filling back in :head: :woohoo: )

And though I've heard this can't happen, hair & beard are growing in darker....

 

[BodyWizard]

Fourth Week

Weight: 199 Waist: 40“ BF: 17.2%

As mentioned at the end of last week, I seem to have undergone a significant shift. I am apparently UNDER 200# now - maybe as low as 185 (yes, that would be TOO big a shift in one week), but probably no higher than 199.

The reason for the variation: my scale fluctuates wildly while I’m on it, and it can be extremely tricky trying to the display to steady down with my weight balanced on the platform; so I did an experiment. I weighed myself as usual, and got ~199; then I weighed myself while holding 2 20# dumbbells, then subtracted 40#...and got 185!

My thinking was that the extra weights would help stabilise the platform & make it easier to distribute my weight evenly. Bogus?

Anyway, the Pollock 3-site fold method shows 17.2% BF - that’s apparently 1.8% for the week (damn!) Translated into fat-mass poundage, that suggests 4.75# of fat lost this week (using 199 as my ending weight).

----------------------------------------------------------

Dose #16 12/25 PM
I am sleeping HARD & HEAVY these days: always been a sound sleeper, but times 10 now.

Dose #17 12/26 PM
appetite remains subdued, though I still get bursts of extreme appetite.

Dose #18 12/27 PM
Trimmed nails again - they seem stiffer in addition to growing faster. Still brittle?
Fingers still pain-free in movement, but I’m definitely noticing they’re more painful to pressure (they weren’t before). Whole body just aches today, knees & ‘waist’ especially - I need a massage!

Dose #19 12/28 PM
Almost to the end of the Ectotropin - excited to begin the Hexatropin
Still sleeping HARD - waking up groggy, too - not getting enough sleep, I imagine; very difficult getting to bed by 10 with the girl home.

The only joints I’m having movement pain from are my knees, and they hurt more than they did a month ago; the rest of my body pains seem to be myofascial - broad shallow areas that complain greatly when they’re stretched (the yoga so far is no help in *keeping* areas stretched out & pain-free...v.peculiar)

This weekend ought to put the whole anti-depression item in the spotlight; after 10 days having wife & daughter back in the house, daughter is today going to her mother’s for New Year’s (and the next 10 days), and ”wife“ goes to spend the weekend at the beach. Since I don’t remember ever having a date for New Year’s Eve, this should be no big deal, but this year it seems a bit more insulting than in past years (she usually spends New Year’s at the beach, either by herself or w/ one of her girlfriends). If it weren’‘t for my determination to let daughter get her first year in college under her belt with no major family upheavals, I’d be doing SOMETHING this weekend besides getting drunk & watching TV by myself. Actually, I have no idea what I’m going to do.

Dose #20 12/29 PM

Day 28 - 12/30
Joints feel much better today - no idea why, but I don’t mind!

On the depression front, I had a bad few minutes this morning, but all-in-all I’m remarkably well, considering.

I’m going ahead & posting this, with a wrap-up on the Ectotropin phase to follow this weekend.

 

[ryano]

I feel you on the New Years thing.

Im spending New Years eve and new years working a double.

Thbbt!! No date and no booze!!

So if you need someone to keep you company I will probably have this site up.

 

[carib102]

Yep me too on the New Years work front. Will probably have this site up on and off from 3pm Sat. until 7am Sunday.

 

[ryano]

Why is my sister on your avatar?:blink:

 

[carib102]

Guess I just have good taste...
Hey...maybe you can introduce us, that would be awesome!

 

[EEmain]

Glad to hear that my friend! I think your going to like the Hex :thumbsup:


I defintely feel the Hex now! Up from 244lbs to 255lbs. That is from a carb depleted state to loaded not lean mass if anyone thinks that is what I am saying.

I don`t remember the dreams from last night but they were there and vivid. Sleeping like a rock. Over all feeling of well being.

Rock solid hardness all the time... almost like a constant pump. WO today was outstanding(chest-tris-delts) not more strength but lots of energy.

Also I am running the Beta ACT along with the Hex. And 1 RBXT at bedtime.

 

[BigVrunga]

I can't wait to try this stuff! Anyone have an idea how UK's PGH-T would compare to IBE's Hexatropin?

BV

 

[carib102]

Can't really say much about Hex because I haven't tried it (yet). I have been using the PGH-T for about a month now and from what I am reading it sounds as if Hex is more potent. More expensive too. I have noticed the improved sleep as well as an ability to eat more without gaining fat on PGH-t and as I would expect from an HGH booster the effects seem to be coming on a bit stronger as I go into my 2nd month. In fact, even though I haven't been to the gym in over a week (intentional) and have been relaxed in my eating (not all intentional...damn choc. chip cookies) my weight and BF% are staying consistent. 3200 kcal/day at 182lbs and no fat gain :wtf: Definitely an improvement and one I like. Kinda like being in my 20's again Overall I think at $100 for 3 months this is something I will continue using.

 

[BodyWizard]

I can't wait to try this stuff! Anyone have an idea how UK's PGH-T would compare to IBE's Hexatropin?

I don't.

 

[BodyWizard]

ryano, that's some sister you got there -
makes me feel like going ho-ho-ho!

 

[ryano]

Thats it im calling Chuck.

You guys are in some serious **** noW:saw:

 

[ryano]

Body wiz can you give me a basic rundown of ecto, hex and for what reasons you are running them.

I have been on IBE's site more than a few times. But Im curious as to why you are running them and what benefits you hope to gain.:burger:

 

[BodyWizard]

Ectotropin is GHRP-6 in a d-lysate form that is supposed to antagonise ghrelin receptors in the stomach; the intended effect of this is a reduction in appetite. Hexarelin OTOH is a dose of straight-up GHRP-6 identical to Ectotropin's dose (100mcg) AND an equal amount of hexarelin, which is a so-called super-analog of GHRP-6.

I keep saying hexarelin is interesting stuff - here's why:
- it increases the amount of GH released;
- it increases the frequency of GH release;
- it may affect GH release long-term (ie, well after hexarelin is stopped).

Hexarelin is supposed to be a much stronger stimulant of GH than GHRP-6 itself (seen in several papers). The potency of the d-lys-3 in Ectotropin relative to GHRP-6 is unknown to me.

I bought a box of Ectotropin in early November, because my research into hormones led me to learn about GH & IGF-1. I was intrigued by the new GHS; the d-lys-3 seemed like an interesting twist. As I continued researching, I ran across more and more that pointed to hexarelin as being much more interesting (to me) (see above).

Beyond that, I get real specific in the first few posts in the thread.

 

[ryano]

Ok I think I am grasping a little of this.

What do you mean by d-lysate form?

And no flamming guys I let you talk smack on my sis.

 

[BodyWizard]

not enough of a chemist to give a precide & rigorous answer, but the d-lysate-3 form is a structural modification of the GHRP-6; the 'd-' indicates a right-handed chemical structure; 'lysate' is the contents of a cell that has been broken down, and the '3' is probably a position in the peptide. Basically, is a description of the modification.

This is the delivered active in Ectotropin, arguably less the target of research than either of the actives in Hexatropin. That's why there's not tons of info around on it.

Is this helping?
(can't help noticing you haven't changed your avatar since you got hacked...)

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

 

[BodyWizard]

Month 1 Wrap-up - Ectotropin

Here at the end of one month on Ectotropin, it’s almost hard to remember exactly how I felt at the beginning. Everything was a struggle, I felt sluggish and stupid, and things had felt pretty bleak for awhile.

Today, I’m losing some fat, while I’m not pain-free by any means, I’m substantially more comfortable than I’ve been in a long time, and my energy level (& activity) is much higher. Normal activities are much less effort, my stress level is way down (even with the holidays & the home situation), my attitude is much more positive. Most importantly (in some ways) my body feels more like a unified whole than a collection of parts.

I know I’ve said things like this over the last month: they remain true, and have intensified, improved, deepened and other vague adjectives. Nothing euphoric, or even particularly physical. I guess the closest I can get is to say I feel rested.

Almost silly, isn’t it - I’m not giddy, grumpy, picked-on, pissed-off or glorious - I’m just ready to go; not amped, not pumped, not cranked - just engaged. I’m probably much easier to be around now than I was a month ago. I’ve been noticeably hornier, too.

I feel like I’m on the right track: if the Hexatropin adds nothing to the equation beyond what I’ve been getting from the Ectotropin, I think it’s still worthwhile for me. Anything beyond this would be very nice.


Weight: 197 waist: 40 BF: 18.2

7# in weight
39.372 - 35.854 = 3.5 lbs

if I were guessing, I’d guess the other 3.5# was water.

The impact of ET on my appetite was generally stimulating, though it slacked off considerably after the first 2 weeks. Overall, the effect on appetite was probably a wash, in that I was hungrier, but more indifferent about satisfying it. I had no real trouble keeping my calories well below maintenance, even with the holiday festivities (I won’t pretend I ate clean these last 2 weeks, but I was far from pigging out...kinda nice,actually).

I feel like I’m just getting started: glad I planned for the long run. Ultimately, I ran the ET to prime the pumps, to get GH response going so the HT could hit the ground running, so to speak. I definitely got my money’s worth. YMMV.

Any questions?

 

[BodyWizard]

Milestones

The effect of ET on my GH levels can’t be reasonably estimated, but I did name some markers I’d be tracking:

hair color and thickness
Hair is definitely growing faster, plainly getting thicker in the bald spot on top;
hair & beard seem to be getting darker; no comment from others so far, but it’s really only noticeable if you look at the top of my head fairly often - wish I’d been able to arrange photos, as it really is undeniable. Nothing grand, but actually happening.

skin tone and texture
no observable changes in skin or complexion, but there’ve been a couple of odd things:

burned fingers
one morning last week, while making coffee, I accidentally poured boiling water over the thumb & fingers of my left hand, straight out of the kettle, fresh off the boil. I felt it, and it was hot, of course, but it didn’t really hurt. It also didn’t burn me. Didn’t even turn red. A couple of hours later, after breakfast & all, it occurred to me that I probably ought to put something on it, so I rubbed in some aloe, but I really don’t think it was necessary. By that night, I’d forgotten it completely.

scalp bumps
like a lot of old guys, I get **** growing on my head, kind of mini-melanomas, only benign (mostly). Every now and then I go to the dermatologist, & she burns some off & leaves others. Annoying, really...still, it’s been 6 months or so, and I had been noticing the bumps under my fingers & thinking it was time to go back for another round when I started ET. This morning, I was rubbing my head, kind of absently checking for bumps, when I realised I didn’t have any. There’s nothing up there (bump-wise). Except more hair.

floaters & general visual reactivity & acuity
hard to judge, but the floaters haven’t been much of an annoyance lately; I’ll have to start tracking their occurrence, rather than their absence, now. I notice nothing on the other.

changes in perceived tinnitus
since beginning ET, I have occasionally noted the ABSENCE of the tone; I’ve also noticed that I no longer *always* hear the exact same tone.

changes in quality & degree of joint pain
joint pain as a product of movement is reduced to a very low point
joint pain as a product of injury or deterioration is reduced
pain around the joints as a product of applied pressure is much increased.

speed of growth (nails, hair)
before ET, I trimmed hair, beard & nails every 2 weeks or so;
after 1 month of ET, I trim every 6-8 days

miles walked - only 10 or so, formally, but close to 25 overall: I plead holidays

miles run - none so far

times for distances - none so far

 

[SJA]

Hey BW....do you ever get vertigo?

 

[ryano]

Sounds like everything is moving along well and thanks for your insight on the tropins.

When do you plan on using the Oratropin?

Also not nitpicking / just being lazy but.. Maybe putting what day or week you are into your experiment would be good?

I thought ringing sensation(tinnitus) you were talking about was interesting.

I was an audio engineer(studio only) for about 8 years and still have some ringing in my ears around the 2,000khz range. It has been about a year and a half since I have been in front of some monitors for any extended period of time and the ringing is not as loud. But from what I have always been told any hearing loss or damage is permanent. I wonder if the ringing is effect of the hairs breaking in the inner ear and or some other mechanism.

Anyhoo, sounds like this stuff is def raising those GH levels. I wonder if the hair coming in is a long term gain.

I like your description of your body feeling like a whole instead of a collection of parts. Im only 32 right now but I relate to your statement.

Sounds like your walking alot. What is the diet like? Are you keeping things around or below maintence. Eating clean and frequently etc...

Ok I will shut up now

 

[BodyWizard]

Hey BW....do you ever get vertigo?

not in a strict sense: never had the whirling, which-way-is-up sensation that causes folks to keel over. That said, I have had instances where I've lost my balance (and have even fallen once or twice) in the last 15 years; since I started taking the 'Tropins, I've not had any balance issues.

Truth is, I've had blood-pressure-related dizziness on standing for 40 years off+on, but none in the last several years. however, vertigo is different. either way, I've had no episodes of any kind in recent months (although my daughter & my wife's cat managed to trip me up in the hall last month - not my fault, damn' kids gangin' up on me like that!)

Just for the record, for as long as I can remember, my sense of balance has been excellent, and i've been surefooted on virtually any terrain in virtually any weather.

When do you plan on using the Oratropin?

Haven't decided: lame, I know - I've had the stuff long enough!
The main thrust of this experiment, beyond seeing how much of my health and fitness I can re-create, is to see if the GHRP-6 family can retore my GH levels long-term; I'm just not sure where in that the OT would best serve.

Also not nitpicking / just being lazy but.. Maybe putting what day or week you are into your experiment would be good?

I've been doing that, I thought: in addition to regular posts & responses, I've been posting a weekly log of dosing schedule & effects - each one is labeled with the week.

For current purposes, I'm at the end of Week 5, and the end of my first week of Hexatropin. Posting the log for this past week sometime in the next 24.

If I'm NOT flagging where I am in the process well enough, maybe others will chime & straighten me out....

I thought ringing sensation(tinnitus) you were talking about was interesting.

It has been about a year and a half since I have been in front of some monitors for any extended period of time and the ringing is not as loud. But from what I have always been told any hearing loss or damage is permanent. I wonder if the ringing is effect of the hairs breaking in the inner ear and or some other mechanism.

I've always been told tinnitus is irreversible; that plus the fact that I've been noticing mine more & more over the last few months made it something I could track for changes fairly easily.

The fact that I've noticed ANY variation strikes me as (at least vaguely) positive. But, we'll see how it all turns out.

I wonder if the hair coming in is a long term gain.

I sure as hell hope it is!! Of all the things that have conspired to make me feel old, having my hair go thin-to-nonexistent has been a biggie.

Sounds like your walking alot. What is the diet like? Are you keeping things around or below maintence. Eating clean and frequently etc...

not walking as much as I want, but like everything else, walking takes time. Diet is unexceptional: not terribly clean, but little-to-no fast or frozen food; I mostly buy & cook real food: chicken & fish are my main protein, followed by whey, beef and lamb (in that order - virtually no pork at all, BTW); veggies are what I can get fresh at Whole Foods or the local road-side stands (in-season, that is); no cream sauces & like that, mostly use mint, peppers & citrus for seasoning.

Indulgences are few & far between (NO BINGING!)

Calories can fluctuate between 2300 - 2700, with maintenance @ 3500

Ok I will shut up now

Dude, I appreciate your questions & comments, okay?

 

[SJA]

I was asking about vertigo due to the tinnitus. It's pretty common to have bouts of vertigo when you have tinnitus.....I know it all to well.....Get up at night to piss and all of a sudden something hits you in the head and gives you a large lump on your head...half asleep you're thinking "I'm going to get ass raped by the night stalker" but then you notice it was the wall and that you have the bed spins but can't remember drinking a fifth of tequila......then it hits you....oh yeah......vertigo :frustrate

 

[Beelzebub]

sounds like a personal problem, lol.

 

[BodyWizard]

I like your description of your body feeling like a whole instead of a collection of parts. Im only 32 right now but I relate to your statement.

I actually associate this pretty directly with the hidden infection that eventually had me bed-ridden for so long, rather than with age. I think any prolonged convalescence would have a comparable effect on anyone. Given the long-term deterioration I experienced, my eventual loss of conditioning was catastrophic; just so, it's possible for any athlete to be bed-ridden long enough to experience similar de-conditioning.

So I see it as a by-product, a secondary effect of infirmity, which I firmly believe need not accompany aging. Whether age, in and of itself, has been a limiting factor in my recovery, I've been unable to determine - just one of the questions that has preceded the current effort.

So, ryano, what experiences of yours help you connect w/ that description?

 

[BodyWizard]

I was asking about vertigo due to the tinnitus. It's pretty common to have bouts of vertigo when you have tinnitus.....I know it all to well.....Get up at night to piss and all of a sudden something hits you in the head and gives you a large lump on your head...half asleep you're thinking "I'm going to get ass raped by the night stalker" but then you notice it was the wall and that you have the bed spins but can't remember drinking a fifth of tequila......then it hits you....oh yeah......vertigo :frustrate

Damn, dude, that's *GOTTA* suck!

Yeah, I was pretty sure I'd know it if I'd had vertigo, and that's very different from my experience. Had the bed spin, def - but I always had a pretty good idea of why at the time. Have you found any treatment or corrective action for that?


Yet I gotta say I am NOT crazy about heights (being on top of tall buildings, mostly - no longer terrified by them, however), so who knows?

 

[SJA]

There is no corrective treatment for it currently. The worst thing about it is that you don't know when it will hit. I just put on a motion sickness patch and after a few days....it goes away. I'm pretty sure I have Menierre's disease. Anti histamines help as well....but they knock me on my ass. I suppose that is a good excuse to run an albuterol cycle....so that I have to take and anti histamine every night

 

[EEmain]

There is no corrective treatment for it currently. The worst thing about it is that you don't know when it will hit. I just put on a motion sickness patch and after a few days....it goes away. I'm pretty sure I have Menierre's disease. Anti histamines help as well....but they knock me on my ass. I suppose that is a good excuse to run an albuterol cycle....so that I have to take and anti histamine every night

Have you ever been checked out by an ENT Doc? I used to get mild dizziness and pressure. Flonase and Allergy meds would help. Then one day at work I came up out of the tunnel at 17th street and WHAM! Got really dizzy almost to the point of passing out.
Here I am squatting against a building thinking I am having a heart attack and will die. Took a couple minutes to get my senses. It was a Fri. afternoon so I wasn`t going to the Emergency from work:run: Anyhow called my Doc and he sends me to an ENT. He finds a low grade infection in my ... I think he called it the rear lateral sinus... draining into my ear and putting pressure on it causing the dizziness. Wound up having surgery to clear all the sinus cavities. But thats a different story:blink: Having to do with internasal ingestion of powdery substances.

 

[SJA]

I've been there and they didn't figure much out. As a kid, I had many severe ear infections, had the tubes in, tonsils/adenoids gutted out. As I got older, the pain subsided, but I still had infections. I remember going in many times for a physical and the doc was like "do you feel OK?" when I said yes they would be amazed because I always had a severe ear infections. They are finding that people who have a lot of scarring from infections are susceptible to Menierre's Disease. Not much you can do at this point other than find something to curb it. Maybe one day when the nanobots are available, they can go fix the problem. I've come up with some of my own plans which seem to have kept the vertigo down to just once or twice a year. So that is at least better.

OK....enough about my dizzy ass....lets give BW his thread back before B comes in and bans my ass :run: :run:

 

[Grunt76]

Snorting some colloidal silver will ensure that your sinuses are infection-free. How that saves your ears isn't 100% sure, but it might be worth the time & money.

 

[SJA]

I've been snorting that stuff for quite sometime now just for that reason. It seems to help with ears only if you snort it like a coke addict. It also seemingly removed my habit of getting bronchitis everytime I got sick.

I have a whole arsenal of herbs which boost my immune system and I think that all of them together have brought me from getting sick several times per year to not being sick for 2 years straight. I've had little colds come one but they usually are gone in a day. I was always the guy who could just walk past a sick person and get sick...then I said F it and hit the books on my own.

 

[BigVrunga]

Snorting some colloidal silver will ensure that your sinuses are infection-free. How that saves your ears isn't 100% sure, but it might be worth the time & money.

There was a lady on Ripley's Believe it or Not that used collodial silver to fight colds and her body freaked out on it. Her skin turned silver.

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9612/31/silver.supplements/

 

[ryano]

I actually associate this pretty directly with the hidden infection that eventually had me bed-ridden for so long, rather than with age. I think any prolonged convalescence would have a comparable effect on anyone. Given the long-term deterioration I experienced, my eventual loss of conditioning was catastrophic; just so, it's possible for any athlete to be bed-ridden long enough to experience similar de-conditioning.

So I see it as a by-product, a secondary effect of infirmity, which I firmly believe need not accompany aging. Whether age, in and of itself, has been a limiting factor in my recovery, I've been unable to determine - just one of the questions that has preceded the current effort.

So, ryano, what experiences of yours help you connect w/ that description?

Your description felt complete and not just a collection of words.

As far as connection...While I haven't had any major issues that would keep me bed ridden for any extended period of time but I spent alot of time at the studio/work, I worked very long hours sitting on my ass behind a bunch of computers, speakers and a recording console. Diet was poor, proper studio etiquette dictates that the client purchase meals for the engineer/producer. This usually consisted of take out that was eaten as fast as possible while working behind the console because of time/money issues. Sleep was poor. Typical session lasted 12 to 14 hrs. Lots of setting up or tearing down or documentation. Often I slept at work because I had another session in the morning. Getting to sleep was problem as well. Try and listen to one of your least favorite songs in the whole world for 10 to 12 hrs straight but wait...blast it really loud because your client is loaded and wants to blow out your ears. Then lay down and close your eyes. All these things compounded upon themselves until I was 70 to 80 pds overweight, with a poor self image, no girlfriend or social life. I then started having panic attacks... and heart palpitations. Freaked the hell out of me till I figured out was going on. I quite doing the studio work about a year and a half ago. Since then I have been working out somewhat consistently and eating healthy. Everything has improved ten fold. I have more time to spend with family and friends, and Now I am looking to go back to school and study nursing. But other than that I am just dealing with the usual stuff that a guy in his thirties starts to experience. Old injuries from school wich use to be a minor annoyance become more of a nuisance. In my case it would be a minor back injury and a shoulder I disclocated when I was younger. Not sleeping as well as I used to. I plan on having a sleep study done soon. I believe I might be a candidate for sleep apnea. Seems to run in the family.

It just occured to me as to why I was attracted to this thread in the first place.

It wasnt to gain insight on the tropins. Although the idea of permanently altering GH or IGF levels intrigues me now. Or because I think you are a stand up guy. But the reasons why you were doing this. The standout for me was your daughter and grand children.

I have a father who is 54 and is going through alot of health problems. His liver is pretty much shot from a good part of his life abusing alcohol and ignoring ongoing health problems. As a result his health is declining. He does not drink as much anymore but his alcoholism is still an issue for him and he still refuses to seek help despite his acknowledgement of his condition and addiction. Like you he should have another 25 to 40 years of active health ahead of him. As a result he has lost alot of his independence and my Sister and I try to help out as much as we can. Wich we are both more than glad to do.

I know there are things in life that happen that cannot be helped and his situation is different than yours; but now that I have three nephews and because of my situation with my father; I have come to realize how important it is for us parent figures to take care of ourselves. We cannot keep ourselves from growing older but we can at least try and do it gracefully and play the best hand with the cards we are dealt.

 

[ryano]

I've been doing that, I thought: in addition to regular posts & responses, I've been posting a weekly log of dosing schedule & effects - each one is labeled with the week.

You have...As usual I have not been paying attention. I post at work between calls.

I sure as hell hope it is!! Of all the things that have conspired to make me feel old, having my hair go thin-to-nonexistent has been a biggie.

Me too my hair line is starting to creep back a little.

Dude, I appreciate your questions & comments, okay?

okay

 

[SJA]

There was a lady on Ripley's Believe it or Not that used collodial silver to fight colds and her body freaked out on it. Her skin turned silver.

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9612/31/silver.supplements/

This is argyria....we already put this to rest in another thread somewhere. Most cases are either very old or where people tried to make their own CS and did not succeed. If you have too large of a partical size, it is easy to OD on it. True colloidal silver is very small particle size and therefore impossible to OD on. The other thing is that people drink this like tap water.....which I do not.

 

[BodyWizard]

Week 5 of 30 - Hexatropin begins

Weight: 197 Waist: 40“ BF: 18.2 Log Week 5

I’m not sure I want to continue doing weekly updates like I have been - doing it this way, the news is always stale...not good.

Dose 1 12/31 PM
A note on oral-absorption: It is my experience that rubbing that stuff around in the mouth generates so much saliva that swallowing becomes an issue. Given everything I’ve been able to learn about such technologies,

Dose 2 01/01 PM
Dose 3 01/02 PM
Dose 4 01/03 PM
Dose 5 01/04 PM

The swollen gums are back (not too drastic, though they are bleeding). I’m beginning to wonder if it’s a reaction to the matrix.
Hope it’s not a problem - will have the dentist look at it in the next week or so.

Main differences so far from ET: sleeping even more soundly, and needing even more sleep. no notable effect of the appetite, which is still under control (& requiring little effort). Hair growth in previously bare scalp areas has become undeniable. It doesn’t look great, but I’ll worry about that later. The more I think about it, the more I think that the legendary lethargy may simply our bodies re-asserting their need for more sleep. I remember in my teens & 20s I slept long and hard - I might stay up late, but I slept like the dead for 10-13 hours. Is this really any different?

The sense of my body as a functional whole continues to sharpen and increase; this is the best news for me, as it means the de-conditioning is being undone, and things ARE knitting back together again better and tighter.

The weight shift I’ve been tracking may have reversed itself: I look and feel as big around now as I ever have, and I think my waist’s gone back up some.

Dose 6 01/07 PM
things are subtly different - pretty much too subtle to really distinguish, but I can tell I’m not taking Ecto any longer...no impact on appetite, so far; perhaps I’m not swallowing enough of it (if some of the intended action is gastric)...really very little to report.

Have been feeling like Moby Dick this week: feel bloated & huge....

So here are some current stats:

Weight: 193 Waist: 39” BF: 21.3

so my weight is down, my bodyfat is up, and my waist is smaller...???

the belly fold is the one that’s skewing this: it has been in the mid-30sfpr 4 weeks - today, 44mm. the others have stabilised @ 9mm. I’d be very surprised to be losing lean mass & gaining fat: my sense is that my sub-cu layer is thinning, but I don’t know what’s going on w/ VAT.

Does VAT ever get re-deposited as sub-cu? Stupid idea, but shortly after stopping my MP log, I noticed a somewhat sudden decrease in VAT and an equally sudden increase in sub-cutaneous fat, wondered if there’s been any work on links between SAT & VAT - ratios, deposition rates, something. Anything along those lines, or am I getting feverish?


Snyway, time to post this puppy...

 

[Grunt76]

Yes VAT can be redeposited as sub-Q. hGH is very mighty at promoting an even distribution of bodyfat. Look for stable-to-increasing measurement of the other folds and diminishing measurement of the abdominal fold including important loss of VAT. And of course an overall reduced bf%.

A few logs that I have read post up the news gradually in the same post which gets edited so that it reads as one post per week. Works nice. Reading with much interest BTW as undoubtedly many others also.

 

[BodyWizard]

Yes VAT can be redeposited as sub-Q. hGH is very mighty at promoting an even distribution of bodyfat. Look for stable-to-increasing measurement of the other folds and diminishing measurement of the abdominal fold including important loss of VAT. And of course an overall reduced bf%.

Thanks for that! I suppose I'll see the " 'real' results" all-at-once as BF levels get low/evenly distributed; still, it's one less thing to get crazy over. So these recent numbers show me losing 11# in the last 5 weeks, which is pretty solid - at this rate I'll be quite lean in another 2-3 months

A few logs that I have read post up the news gradually in the same post which gets edited so that it reads as one post per week.

I've been thinking of something like that; I haven't been thrilled, personally, by logs formatted that way; I'll work on it - thanks for the suggestion!

Reading with much interest BTW as undoubtedly many others also.

very much appreciate your participation :thumbsup:
your experience and observations are valuable and welcome!

 

[diamonddave]

A strange thing:
My gums have swollen, becoming darker red than normal, and puffy / tender to the touch. This has happened only in certain areas, not uniformly.

Has ANYONE who has used ANY of the tropins experienced anything like this? I'd be VERY interested to know what this is about!

I have the exact same problem when using ET. I ran a month between Thanksgiving and Christmas and had inflamed areas on my gums (mainly in the back around my molars) that came and went and moved around. Brushing caused the areas to bleed. Well, I stopped ET for a week or so around the holidays and everything cleared up quickly. I started another kit 4 or 5 days ago and it flared up again. I definitely think that the carrier affects some people in this way.

dd

 

[Beowulf]

BW, as much as I think it is good to track progress in as many ways as possible, I wouldn't focus too much on the bf calipers. I find them nearly impossible to use consistently and accurately. I suggest you prioritize appearance more than anything else.

 

[motiv8er]

I agree with the fictional old guy for sure. The ole' mirror test is by far the most tell.

 

[cage]

damn!!!! way to go IBE . Man have i been on the wrong board. Thank god for finding this.lol:jaw:

 

[BodyWizard]

Week 6 of 30

Have manually recalculated my BMR & arrived at 1828; have seen 1.55 used as a modifier for moderate activity; is a 50% increase in kcals accounted for by moderate activity?

ANyway, following that formula would give me maintenance cals of 2833 - considerably less than the 3600 I’d been using. If I reduce that by 20%, that gives me 2266 for a cutting target (okay, 2000-2300), and 3400 for a bulking target. (no, I’m not bulking: it’s just nice to know the spread).

Dose 7 12/08
Dose 8 01/09
Off 01/10
Off 01/11
Dose 9 01/12
Dose 10 01/13
Off 01/14
Off 01/15

that’s a little TOO staggered for me - think I’ll run 3,1/2,1 for the next few weeks.

Precious little to say this week - partly schedule overload, partly the countdown to Daughter going back to school, partly just being so damn angry w/ “Wife”....

Weight: 195 lbs Waist: 40.5“ BF: 19%

Still feeling bloated & huge, even though the BF is down again (and the waist is back up!)...sometimes this **** just drives me crazy.

Hair & nail still growing - at this rate, you won’t be able to see my scalp in another 6 weeks.
Energy still good, still sleeping like a rock. No dreams; kinda sorry about that: I generally don’t dream, & haven’t for decades. Was looking forward to a rousing skull-movie now & then.

My appetite’s kicking up - trying to learn to like feeling hungry...let you know how it goes!

 

[EEmain]

Good to see you keeping it going.

I have gone to EOD dosing of the Hex right before bed. No change from other dosing. Also dropped the ACT because of a very small sore lump about 1/2" away from the right nip.
I don`t think it`s the ACT so nobody jump to conculsions. 3 months out from a SD/4AD/1AD/E...LMG cycle.

Muscles feel full all the time. Don`t feel bloated just SWOLE. Haven`t noticed the hair thing but mine is kept short. But the nails I see and my facial hair, up from 2x a week shave to 3.

Not tracking body fat, just know I am fat:twisted: Down 2 lbs from my previous posted weight. No strength gains so to speak of just the normal slow increases. Sleep is Fantabulous... that`s right like a rock and fantasy show all night!

 

[BodyWizard]

it's my gut that feels bloated, not my muscles :frustrate:

My hair's short, too - it's the big bald patch from forehead to crown that's filling up (wish I could figure out how to take pics of the top of my head by myself - they don't turn out)! I run a beard, and it's getting fuller, and I swear it's getting darker (could be wishful thinking, but I don't know...

Really apologise for the delay getting this posted - no mas!

Great to hear it's going well for you!
Again you guys with the dreams! :hammer:

 

[BryanFury]

Keep it up man, great job. I've been using the same products for somewhat the same reasons. Never give in. Better to try and find something that works rather than quit. Best wishes with all of this. If you ever want to run over anything, or just shoot the breaze, drop me a line on AIM. Its in my profile.

 

[BodyWizard]

Thanks, Bryan - I've wondered where you've been, having read your story some time ago. Good to know you're still around: care to give an update on your situation?

 

[BryanFury]

Still grinding away at it. Kind of stopped the updates for various reasons. Im doing well. Keeping up on new studies, the NAC dosing (note, get it capped the powder gets OLD) gh and ghrp. I'm well ahead of the curve as for my situation, so I'm thankful for that. I give credit for that to the gym, the internet giving access to any info I could ask for, and all of the people on this board.

So yeah. Thanks for asking though, I don't want to derail your thread at all. Forget I'm here, back to the shadows. :ninjavanish:

 

[BodyWizard]

Week 7 / 30 - Hexatropin #1

Dose 11 01/16
Something out of the ordinary: a *thing* in my goo.

Not at all sure what kind of *thing*: almost felt like meat between my teeth, but very pale & plain & featureless to the eye; I wanted to get a good look at it, but I couldn’t find a magnifying glass, and it was gone this morning (at least, I couldn’t find it).

Hexatropin & Ectotropin behave totally differently in the mouth: where ET would adhere & resist swallowing, HT is the opposite - it doesn’t seem to cling to the mucosa much at all. Since the instructions for HT specify swishing it around and then swallowing it, I have to wonder how it acts: seems like a substantial portion ends up in the stomach.

Dose 12 01/17
off 01/18
Dose 13 01/19
Dose 14 01/21 *AM*

Dose 15 will be tonight, before bed, so that’s effectively another day skipped.
For the rest of this kit, the break will be 3/off/3/off - and that will bring me to the new box next Sunday.

Apologies for the log getting a bit irregular - I’ve been putting in a lot more time at work, and the contents of my plate have changed: Daughter is back off to college, “wife” is visiting her parents in DC, and I’m struggling with depression again. I call it depression, anyway: perhaps more accurately, it’s part bitter self-hatred, part shock at realising how fucked up I’ve been these last 30 years, and part helplessness - a feeling of being strapped to the front of a runaway train & only capable of making the eventual train-wreck much worse.

I try not to think about any of that: I get up, I stretch & do PT, go to work where I must be calm, smooth, gracious & highly efficient, come home, eat, lift, run errands, work around the house, eat, stretch, try to be effective without blowing my stack, stay in touch as best I can with what family I still have, clean up & go to bed.

I don’t know what I would do without the AM brotherhood: I’ve been alone for so much of my life, despite my best efforts - it’s good to be able to talk to someone.

Much of what I’m going through right now is reaction to having my daughter leave. When she’s around, it’s just like having a family, a real life: we talk & laugh & do things together, go places, eat together, I feel connected & alive. When she goes, the light inside me goes with her. What’s left is pretty dark and cold and empty.

So, I try to think as little as possible, so I don’t kindle the rage inside - I used to think about “safe” subjects, but there are no safe subjects anymore: I just keep getting up in the morning, make what contributions I can, and try to stay calm enough to get to sleep at a reasonable hour.

So how about some good news?
Weight: 200# Waist: 38.5“ BF: 18.7%
Recent round of aches & pains is gone (winter moved out for a while)
Hair continues to grow in thicker & darker (subtle, not dramatic) - nails are thicker & less brittle.
Continued ‘neuromuscular integration’ / reconditioning - walking across a parking lot yesterday, I was struck by how I was moving: as a whole animal, and at a gait that would have felt forced and difficult 6 months ago, but now felt easy & natural.
Gums have been normal all week :woohoo:

As always, thanks to all for keeping tabs & checking in - really means a lot!

 

[BodyWizard]

thanks for the link on that book, IBE - I'll be checking that out!