Cycles without testosterone

Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
To be clear, im always on some test. But I'm looking for guys experience, preferably some of the guys over 50 or even 60 who were bodybuilding back in the 70's and 80's.

Who has run some of the old school combos that didn't involve test or ai's

Dbol/deca
Dbol/primo
Dbol/winstrol

Maybe some stuff that didn't have dbol or test.

How were the gains and what did you feel like on cycle.

Please do not respond if your input is you need test. That's not the point nor is it true. We all know it's beneficial and we don't need to be reminded.

This is purely looking to hear about people's personal experience.

Some that one of my older friends have used are

Tbol only 6 on 4 off repeat
Dbol only "same"
Dbol/deca
Dbol/winny
Dbol/masteron

His era/circle of friends used dbol with pretty much everything.
 

PHOTOSnFIBERS

Member
Awards
1
  • First Up Vote
To be clear, im always on some test. But I'm looking for guys experience, preferably some of the guys over 50 or even 60 who were bodybuilding back in the 70's and 80's.
I don't know the answer but that raised an interesting question. Can our bodies convert something like Dbol to E2? My guess is no that it's too different a molecule. So would that mean you don't NEED an ai since suppression means low T, and if we don't have much T, we can't have much aromatization right?

So in theory, you could be greatly suppressed and not need an ai, and just use other compounds to stay anabolic, is that right?
 
Whisky

Whisky

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
  • Best Answer
Beast fitness radio did a q n a with mike Arnold recently and this question came up. There was some really interesting points made. One of which was the need for estrogen from somewhere. Obviously that can be from compounds convert or your could just literally take estrogen.

worth a listen if you get chance @Smont - was the second most recent if I recall right
 
PoSiTiVeFLoW

PoSiTiVeFLoW

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Beast fitness radio did a q n a with mike Arnold recently and this question came up. There was some really interesting points made. One of which was the need for estrogen from somewhere. Obviously that can be from compounds convert or your could just literally take estrogen.

worth a listen if you get chance @Smont - was the second most recent if I recall right
Yup and in plates for dates overview.. this is what RAD-140 us designed and in ore human primate trials.. does well, replaces testosterone, yet maintain Anabolic and neural support function of test..and not bind to prostate, be as androgenic, etc. Does suppress test, but if you are done having kids and are half way or full hypogonadism from roid use.. go RAD!

It also suffers from zero estrogen coversion issue, as would being in low T state.. Some see as anti gynobenefit, sure.. but long term we need it to avoid sore joints and other important stuff.

College level chem/bio course work, aside from body building experience.. is useful for the watch here with Derek -https://youtu.be/kTBAaXWWVmY
 
Last edited:
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
Yup and in plates for dates overview.. this is what RAD-140 us designed and in ore human primate trials.. does well, replaces testosterone, yet maintain Anabolic and neural support function of test..and not bind to prostate, be as androgenic, etc. Does suppress test, but if you are done having kids and are half way or full hypogonadism from roid use.. go RAD!

It also suffers from zero estrogen coversion issue, as would being in low T state.. Some see as anti gynobenefit, sure.. but long term we need it to avoid sore joints and other important stuff.

College level chem/bio course work, aside from body building experience.. is useful for the watch here with Derek -https://youtu.be/kTBAaXWWVmY
Not looking for sarm info or studies. I've seen mountains of that stuff. Im looking for people's first hand experience
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
Beast fitness radio did a q n a with mike Arnold recently and this question came up. There was some really interesting points made. One of which was the need for estrogen from somewhere. Obviously that can be from compounds convert or your could just literally take estrogen.

worth a listen if you get chance @Smont - was the second most recent if I recall right
I haven't seen a new episode of that podcast pop up on my podcast player in months but I will definitely check that out
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
I don't know the answer but that raised an interesting question. Can our bodies convert something like Dbol to E2? My guess is no that it's too different a molecule. So would that mean you don't NEED an ai since suppression means low T, and if we don't have much T, we can't have much aromatization right?

So in theory, you could be greatly suppressed and not need an ai, and just use other compounds to stay anabolic, is that right?
Well you would think so but dbol was and still is prescribed as trt in some parts of the world. So I gotta wonder what it does that makes it a trt option. Estrogen is very important for sexual function, testosterone and dht as well. But dbol does not convert to test. It does however convert do dht so the combo of dht and estrogen cover sexual function. You need a anabolic and estrogen to build muscle. That's why sarm only cycles will stop producing results and kill your sexdrive after a certain amount of time, no estrogen is left at some point. Sorry for rambling. I just woke up.

Again tho I'd like to note here that I'm really just looking for personal experiences with these old-school methods
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
Yup and in plates for dates overview.. this is what RAD-140 us designed and in ore human primate trials.. does well, replaces testosterone, yet maintain Anabolic and neural support function of test..and not bind to prostate, be as androgenic, etc. Does suppress test, but if you are done having kids and are half way or full hypogonadism from roid use.. go RAD!

It also suffers from zero estrogen coversion issue, as would being in low T state.. Some see as anti gynobenefit, sure.. but long term we need it to avoid sore joints and other important stuff.

College level chem/bio course work, aside from body building experience.. is useful for the watch here with Derek -https://youtu.be/kTBAaXWWVmY
On a side note, have you seen the rad studies showing it well tolerated at 100mg a day. Most sarms are very effective at 30+ mg. The reason everyone thinks there weak is the use 5-20 mg of most these things. I would have no problem using rad at 50mg a day but it would cost a fortune. Rad is my favorite sarm even at 20-30mg. Your not going to get huge, you will get a little stronger, you feel awesome mentally and the addition of no estrogen and prostate protective possible I think it's a great add on to a trt protocol.
 
bad rad

bad rad

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I'm in my 40's and run a few no test cycles. The best ones have a testosterone derivative like EQ or D-bol. EQ and Winstrol is a nice slow gain or recomp cycle. I've done Deca/Primo for 8 weeks with great results too.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
I'm in my 40's and run a few no test cycles. The best ones have a testosterone derivative like EQ or D-bol. EQ and Winstrol is a nice slow gain or recomp cycle. I've done Deca/Primo for 8 weeks with great results too.
That's what I'm looking for! How do you feel on these cycle? Like twords the tail end. Libido and energy wise
 
bad rad

bad rad

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I felt fine but usually only cycle for 8-10 weeks when I do. The Deca/Primo was 200mg each and the other was 300mg EQ/150mg Winny.
 
bad rad

bad rad

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Well you would think so but dbol was and still is prescribed as trt in some parts of the world. So I gotta wonder what it does that makes it a trt option. Estrogen is very important for sexual function, testosterone and dht as well. But dbol does not convert to test. It does however convert do dht so the combo of dht and estrogen cover sexual function. You need a anabolic and estrogen to build muscle. That's why sarm only cycles will stop producing results and kill your sexdrive after a certain amount of time, no estrogen is left at some point. Sorry for rambling. I just woke up.

Again tho I'd like to note here that I'm really just looking for personal experiences with these old-school methods
D-bol was the second oral TRT compound created after methyltestosterone because it is less estrogenic. It will function in place of endogenous testosterone in the body. It converts to methyl-estrodiol so it hangs around a bit. D-bol is great at 15mgs daily.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
D-bol was the second oral TRT compound created after methyltestosterone because it is less estrogenic. It will function in place of endogenous testosterone in the body. It converts to methyl-estrodiol so it hangs around a bit. D-bol is great at 15mgs daily.
Yes, believe it or not it's still used in some places for trt.

If I attempted one of these type cycles it would be dbol with eq or primo
 
bad rad

bad rad

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I always try to mix base compounds when cycling since they tend to compliment each other. D-bol and Primo would be really interesting.
 
Last edited:
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
I always try to mix bases compounds when cycling since they tend to compliment each other. D-bol and Primo would be really interesting.
Supposedly it was the go to cycle for Arnold and Franco, what worries me is that I won't get real primo and end up with it being masteron. Now dbol and masteron doesn't sound like a terrible idea, I do know someone that's used it. But I would be pissed if I spent all that money on primo and got mast instead lol
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
I've heard guys say primo makes there hair fall out, you got masteron buddy
 
bad rad

bad rad

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Supposedly it was the go to cycle for Arnold and Franco, what worries me is that I won't get real primo and end up with it being masteron. Now dbol and masteron doesn't sound like a terrible idea, I do know someone that's used it. But I would be pissed if I spent all that money on primo and got mast instead lol
Add a little Deca and it makes a much better cycle. Doses are individually required but a few examples below.

Deca/Dbol/Masteron
Tren/EQ/Anavar, Winny, M-sten, Superdrol, etc
Deca/Dbol/Primo
Tren/Dbol/DHB

Another old school option is keeping test below 200mg weekly and using higher dosed anabolics.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
Add a little Deca and it makes a much better cycle. Doses are individually required but a few examples below.

Deca/Dbol/Masteron
Tren/EQ/Anavar, Winny, M-sten, Superdrol, etc
Deca/Dbol/Primo
Tren/Dbol/DHB

Another old school option is keeping test below 200mg weekly and using higher dosed anabolics.
I'm sure there's many doable options. I'm kinda just doing this thread for entertainment. Just interested in some off the path things ppl have tried
 
bad rad

bad rad

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I've done Deca/Tren/Masteron too. I liked it and didn't have sides I couldn't handle. I think it was 400mg Deca and 175mg Tren/Mast combined.
 

PHOTOSnFIBERS

Member
Awards
1
  • First Up Vote
Well you would think so but dbol was and still is prescribed as trt in some parts of the world. So I gotta wonder what it does that makes it a trt option. Estrogen is very important for sexual function, testosterone and dht as well. But dbol does not convert to test. It does however convert do dht so the combo of dht and estrogen cover sexual function. You need a anabolic and estrogen to build muscle. That's why sarm only cycles will stop producing results and kill your sexdrive after a certain amount of time, no estrogen is left at some point. Sorry for rambling. I just woke up.

Again tho I'd like to note here that I'm really just looking for personal experiences with these old-school methods
Not rambling at all and you just made complete sense. With my first cycle, my T and E2 were so low that explains why all my gains went bye bye so fast. I actually noticed a bit of strength drop the last week on cycle, i plateaued at 335 for 3 weeks in a row but the last week was a grinder, i was definitely weaker.

So does one of the compounds u listed have a slight E2 conversion? That would make sense in order to keep some in the system while T is shut down.
 

PHOTOSnFIBERS

Member
Awards
1
  • First Up Vote
Yup and in plates for dates overview.. this is what RAD-140 us designed and in ore human primate trials.. does well, replaces testosterone, yet maintain Anabolic and neural support function of test..and not bind to prostate, be as androgenic, etc. Does suppress test, but if you are done having kids and are half way or full hypogonadism from roid use.. go RAD!

It also suffers from zero estrogen coversion issue, as would being in low T state.. Some see as anti gynobenefit, sure.. but long term we need it to avoid sore joints and other important stuff.

College level chem/bio course work, aside from body building experience.. is useful for the watch here with Derek -https://youtu.be/kTBAaXWWVmY
Hmm so i have a question if you know the answer. Since our bodies are always trying to find homeostasis by converting extra T into DHT and E2, would taking a compound like rad140 cause our body to convert more T into E2? If a person was on TRT already, they obviously won't get shut down from the sarm, but taking rad140 would up the overall anabolic state of the body.

Would the body still respond with more E2 conversion even if the rad140 itself doesn't aromatize? This was a theory i had for a while but hadn't done any looking till now.
 
Last edited:
PoSiTiVeFLoW

PoSiTiVeFLoW

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Hmm so i have a question if you know the answer. Since our bodies are always trying to find homeostasis by converting extra T into DHT and E2, would taking a compound like rad140 cause our body to convert more T into E2? If a person was on TRT already, they obviously won't get shut down from the sarm, but taking rad140 would up the overall anabolic state of the body.

Would the body still respond with more E2 conversion even if the rad140 itself doesn't aromatize? This was a theory i had for a while but hadn't done any looking till now.
Note, my training is in materials chemistry, not endocrinologist nor biology. I know enough for myself, however... I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night and think I understand your question. If RAD selective binds to receptors does it cause higher levels of e2, in those without hypogonadism that have healthy test levels of are on TRT.. and therefore more e2 spillover?

I don't think so, I tested RAD before while subject was on TRT and don't remember e-levels going too high.. and RAD did suppress my own T levels, on an early cycle somewhat.. so it's selective action still had that feedback loop. But my cycles were a bit addict like, too fast my first 2-3 years (not enough rest, bridge cycles became always on) so YMMV.

but would have to check my blood work, logs.. from back when if I had it.
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Like @Whisky said, Alex Kikel talked about his recent prep. Before moving into the blast he was cruising on like 1g Masteron and some estradiol tablets. Then he added NPP and Primo, and getting closer to the show dropped NPP for Anadrol and bumped Primo if I recall correctly. I replayed the segment like 3 times on my walk because it was very novel to me.

He prefaced it saying he never noticed more gains above 300mg test for himself, just sides. It just comes down to what works for you.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
Hmm so i have a question if you know the answer. Since our bodies are always trying to find homeostasis by converting extra T into DHT and E2, would taking a compound like rad140 cause our body to convert more T into E2? If a person was on TRT already, they obviously won't get shut down from the sarm, but taking rad140 would up the overall anabolic state of the body.

Would the body still respond with more E2 conversion even if the rad140 itself doesn't aromatize? This was a theory i had for a while but hadn't done any looking till now.
Taking rad will supress your testosterone and eventually you won't be producing any estrogen or dht either. I feel like the only way rad would work for trt is if you took it with exogenous estrogen
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
Like @Whisky said, Alex Kikel talked about his recent prep. Before moving into the blast he was cruising on like 1g Masteron and some estradiol tablets. Then he added NPP and Primo, and getting closer to the show dropped NPP for Anadrol and bumped Primo if I recall correctly. I replayed the segment like 3 times on my walk because it was very novel to me.

He prefaced it saying he never noticed more gains above 300mg test for himself, just sides. It just comes down to what works for you.
Yeah I still haven't got a chance to listen to that yet, that guy always looks like **** on stage but he has a enormous amount of good information in his podcasts, especially the ones with Mike Arnold. Alex seems like a sponge for information. Constantly looking to soak up something new.

I hope he brings it all together cus I would like to see him do good in a couple shows.
 

PHOTOSnFIBERS

Member
Awards
1
  • First Up Vote
Taking rad will supress your testosterone and eventually you won't be producing any estrogen or dht either. I feel like the only way rad would work for trt is if you took it with exogenous estrogen
I may not have been clear. For example im on TRT now, taking 300mg T cyp once a week. So rad can't suppress that which comes from a needle, but will it cause my body to convert more cyp into E2? If rad140 increases my body's overall anabolic state, is that the catalyst for increased E2 conversion?

I guess im asking what the mechanism is that our bodies know to convert more E2? Does more E2 conversion only happen if the exogenous compounds are able to convert, or does our body sense the sum total of anabolic agents and convert whatever it can to find homeostasis?
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
I'm not 100% sure but I remember reading that most sarms, rad include are a good add on to trt because they can help keep estrogen in check and possibly eliminate the need for anti estrogen.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
I'm not 100% sure but I remember reading that most sarms, rad include are a good add on to trt because they can help keep estrogen in check and possibly eliminate the need for anti estrogen.
Aside from prostate and other reasons too
 

PHOTOSnFIBERS

Member
Awards
1
  • First Up Vote
I'm not 100% sure but I remember reading that most sarms, rad include are a good add on to trt because they can help keep estrogen in check and possibly eliminate the need for anti estrogen.
Ok that's good to hear. I just started rad140 about a week ago, been on TRT for not quite a year now, this is the first time i have tried them together so it will be a learning experience. My last bloods were done this last March. My T was 1400, E2 was slightly high at 59. I had been taking 1mg of arimidex to that point, after this last bloods my doc doubled that to 2mg so my E2 should be on point now and indeed i haven't felt anything indicative of high E2.

I should be doing 3mo of the rad140 this time so i will be paying attention to how i feel.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
Ok that's good to hear. I just started rad140 about a week ago, been on TRT for not quite a year now, this is the first time i have tried them together so it will be a learning experience. My last bloods were done this last March. My T was 1400, E2 was slightly high at 59. I had been taking 1mg of arimidex to that point, after this last bloods my doc doubled that to 2mg so my E2 should be on point now and indeed i haven't felt anything indicative of high E2.

I should be doing 3mo of the rad140 this time so i will be paying attention to how i feel.
I would not be trying to lower my estrogen at that number if my test was 1400, I would be lowering my testosterone dose slightly so I was in the normal range for test and that would lower your estrogen to match. The normal range for estrogen kinda changes when your above normal range for testosterone. Although different doctors will have different opinions on that. If I'm on 500mg of test and my estrogen is around 100 I feel awesome. If test was 800 and estrogen was that high I would not
 

PHOTOSnFIBERS

Member
Awards
1
  • First Up Vote
I would not be trying to lower my estrogen at that number if my test was 1400, I would be lowering my testosterone dose slightly so I was in the normal range for test and that would lower your estrogen to match. The normal range for estrogen kinda changes when your above normal range for testosterone. Although different doctors will have different opinions on that. If I'm on 500mg of test and my estrogen is around 100 I feel awesome. If test was 800 and estrogen was that high I would not
Hmm well i should be getting my next bloods in a few mo. Im curious as to what my E2 will be at after the 2nd mg of AI.
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Yeah I still haven't got a chance to listen to that yet, that guy always looks like **** on stage but he has a enormous amount of good information in his podcasts, especially the ones with Mike Arnold. Alex seems like a sponge for information. Constantly looking to soak up something new.

I hope he brings it all together cus I would like to see him do good in a couple shows.
I don’t think he’s gotten on stage in a long time. This recent prep his gallbladder or something blew up actually a few weeks out and he had to have emergency surgery to remove it. But prior to that he said he’d added over 30lbs of stage weight in the last year.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
I don’t think he’s gotten on stage in a long time. This recent prep his gallbladder or something blew up actually a few weeks out and he had to have emergency surgery to remove it. But prior to that he said he’d added over 30lbs of stage weight in the last year.
I don't even remember the last time he competed. I've just seen his show pics from 2 or 3 shows. It definitely was a while ago. And the gallbladder explains the month or 2 with no podcast earlier this year. Now that you say that I think I heard another podcast where they talked about him being in the hospital
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
The beast fitness radio podcast is probably my favorite podcast
 
xR1pp3Rx

xR1pp3Rx

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
ive ran that dbol/ primo combo. it was exciting to me cause it was the first time I went to mehico and came home with gear. later though I did lots of Designer cycles with no test as well. all things being equal, for me the best feeling runs ive ever had were with trestolone either solo or stacked with test. literally give no faulks about test in or out of a cycle. to me its silly to think test has to be in a steroid cycle when all the gear is basically some synthetic form of test. (obviously there is more to it but you can get my point). all steroids latch onto the same receptors. you can enjoy them with or without test.
 
Whisky

Whisky

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
  • Best Answer
Yeah likewise. The q n A’s give a good range of response to questions rather than a ‘it has to be this exact way’ it’s more of a ‘these are the variables and ways to address them and how that might change person to person etc
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
Yeah likewise. The q n A’s give a good range of response to questions rather than a ‘it has to be this exact way’ it’s more of a ‘these are the variables and ways to address them and how that might change person to person etc
Ya, I love when a answer to a question starts with it depends and they start going down the worm hole. There's no 1 right way to do something and I love to hear answers that don't say you need or you have to.

That's one of my problems with this forum. Everyone immediately spits out the same regurgitated information over and over again, I can't count how many times I see someone giving a outline or advise on a cycle that sounds like the same old cookie cutter. Then a month later they have a thread about starting there first cycle. No1 wants advise that you read about and never tried yourself. I want real life feedback and experience first and your studies can come after that.

Il stop ranting now, but ya good podcast lol
 
xR1pp3Rx

xR1pp3Rx

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
How did the dbol/primo cycle work out
worked out just like a lot of the rest of them, as in i got stronger and a lil bigger. its been 25 yrs.. couldnt tell you the logistics tbh.
 
StarScream66

StarScream66

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
To be clear, im always on some test. But I'm looking for guys experience, preferably some of the guys over 50 or even 60 who were bodybuilding back in the 70's and 80's.

Who has run some of the old school combos that didn't involve test or ai's

Dbol/deca
Dbol/primo
Dbol/winstrol

Maybe some stuff that didn't have dbol or test.

How were the gains and what did you feel like on cycle.

Please do not respond if your input is you need test. That's not the point nor is it true. We all know it's beneficial and we don't need to be reminded.

This is purely looking to hear about people's personal experience.

Some that one of my older friends have used are

Tbol only 6 on 4 off repeat
Dbol only "same"
Dbol/deca
Dbol/winny
Dbol/masteron

His era/circle of friends used dbol with pretty much everything.
I would highly recommend against using two methylated compounds like Dbol and Winstrol together. That's a very liver toxic compound.

Am I under the presumption you want to do an oral only cycle? You could take methyl-test with an AI and have just test conversion without any of the estrogen. Just a thought.

Dbol does convert to estrogen. I recommend using something like SAN Estrodex on cycle as it can prevent conversion to e2.

If you're interested, here is a fascinating read about the history of Dbol and it was taken off the market for use in the USA at all legally by the FDA.


Here's a good steroid profile read on Dbol as well.


To answer your original question, I'm not sure how many old school bbers from the 70s/80s still hang out here and come to forums much. There days of bbing are long over with, although you can find some forums somewhere with old war stories. But yeah, those are the kinds of cycles they ran.

I don't know the answer but that raised an interesting question. Can our bodies convert something like Dbol to E2? My guess is no that it's too different a molecule. So would that mean you don't NEED an ai since suppression means low T, and if we don't have much T, we can't have much aromatization right?

So in theory, you could be greatly suppressed and not need an ai, and just use other compounds to stay anabolic, is that right?
Yes, Dbol converts to estrogen but not by much. However, since the original compound is methylated, it converts to methyl-estrogen, a much more potent form of estrogen, and that accounts for a lot of the bloat you see in Dbol. Dbol is essentially methylated boldenone (EQ).

@Whisky

I deleted the podcast and resebscribed and like 15 new episodes showed up
What podcast is this? Can you share a link?
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
I would highly recommend against using two methylated compounds like Dbol and Winstrol together. That's a very liver toxic compound.

Am I under the presumption you want to do an oral only cycle? You could take methyl-test with an AI and have just test conversion without any of the estrogen. Just a thought.

Dbol does convert to estrogen. I recommend using something like SAN Estrodex on cycle as it can prevent conversion to e2.

If you're interested, here is a fascinating read about the history of Dbol and it was taken off the market for use in the USA at all legally by the FDA.


Here's a good steroid profile read on Dbol as well.


To answer your original question, I'm not sure how many old school bbers from the 70s/80s still hang out here and come to forums much. There days of bbing are long over with, although you can find some forums somewhere with old war stories. But yeah, those are the kinds of cycles they ran.



Yes, Dbol converts to estrogen but not by much. However, since the original compound is methylated, it converts to methyl-estrogen, a much more potent form of estrogen, and that accounts for a lot of the bloat you see in Dbol. Dbol is essentially methylated boldenone (EQ).



What podcast is this? Can you share a link?
No I don't want to do a oral only cycle. I'm just looking for people's personal experience with oddball cycles that go against the grain. Just interested to hear what ppl have done. As far as liver toxicity. It's greatly exaggerated and does not worry me. I've had bloods on multiple cycles and I'm never really out of range from orals. But that's not what this thread is about.

If you download any podcast player to your phone, just search beast fitness radio. There's like 500 episodes lol
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
worked out just like a lot of the rest of them, as in i got stronger and a lil bigger. its been 25 yrs.. couldnt tell you the logistics tbh.
You know what. The deeper I get into cycling, the more I realize that the outcome is usually the same. Some things obviously are suited better for purpose of a cycle, but the outcome is always similar.

I pick a cycle, if I'm eating enough and working hard I get a little bigger and stronger. If I'm eating less I get a little leaner and my strength stays about the same. If I eat too much I get strong and fat
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
Most the guys I know who take a gram or less on cycle have the same outcomes. The guys I know who take 1.5+ grams and completely live the bodybuilding lifestyle look like bodybuilders. And the guys who take a lot and eat normal and just "work out" don't look anything like what they take.
 
xR1pp3Rx

xR1pp3Rx

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
duchaine used to say that a gram a week was the magic relm.. anything more was not additive. I agree with u. the guys using 2-3 grams of gear/peps/insulin ect are todays monsters.. I think mostly because there is very little pharma grade goods doing the work these days. in the 80's and 90's the bbers didn't use UGLs with the exception of duchaines old kronies outfit.. cant remember the name.. was like gentek or something. It was one of the few that was around back then. it was also good stuff. todays stuff is unpure Chinese crap typically.
 
xR1pp3Rx

xR1pp3Rx

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
that kind of forces a guys hand today.. you probably need 2 grams to get one real gram
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
that kind of forces a guys hand today.. you probably need 2 grams to get one real gram
I know what you mean. 5-10 years ago I had mostly pharma test, vet grade eq, the prohormones even were better. I got great results on 500 test 500eq, a look now that I can't achieve with 750 test 750 eq of the home brew stuff I was using. Who knows how much actual mg is in that.
 

Similar threads


Top