Cut calories or Cut carbs?
- Thread starter AaronJP1
- Start date
dirty321
New member
So is this saying that the fat burning properties of the Atkins diet are made up by the restriction of calories? If you are on the atkins diet yet you restrict your carb free calorie intake down to 1600 with a BMR or 2100 calories you aren't burning more fat off your body then just a calorie restricting diet down to 1600 calories? Its hard to understand the benefits of the Atkins diet when they say that it switches you into "fat burning mode"...I suppose its harder to restrict calories with the Atkins diet because the caloric density of the foods that you tend to eat on the Atkins diet are higher so restricting both is impossible. I suppose I have to try a calorie restriction diet in order to find out how my body reacts to both because I have successfully used the Atkins diet to loose weight in the past but I have never successfully completed a calorie restricting diet. Has anyone ever done this type of comparison with these 2 diets before?
owlicks
Member
That conclusion is moronic. Cutting calories is the only thing that will make a difference. In order to cut calories, you may have to cut carbs, as maintaining proper protein and fat intake is essential for preserving muscle while cutting. Cutting carbs, however, is not a necessary condition to losing fat, whereas cutting calories is.
CJ_Xfit89
Board Sponsor
strength and power athletes: ketogenic diet 5-10%
endurance and high aerobic athletes i.e cyclists and runners: low/moderate 20-30% carb
work out your BMR less 300 kcal for starters then go from there. Dont be agressive to early. Find your feet.
calories in and out matter but make em quality...stick to whole foods. better value and better end results. helps control insulin levels te least processed the food is i.e a shake compared to 1 oz of chicken breast boiled
endurance and high aerobic athletes i.e cyclists and runners: low/moderate 20-30% carb
work out your BMR less 300 kcal for starters then go from there. Dont be agressive to early. Find your feet.
calories in and out matter but make em quality...stick to whole foods. better value and better end results. helps control insulin levels te least processed the food is i.e a shake compared to 1 oz of chicken breast boiled
owlicks
Member
I agree with runner_79 for the most part. For me personally, my breakdown on lifting days is more or less 40% carbs/40% protein/20% fat -- and on non-lifting days it's about 25% carbs/50% protein/25% fat. As far as the actual numbers, on non-lifting days I take in ~2000 cal and under 150 carbs (the majority of them being complex as opposed to fructose), and on lifting days I take in ~2400 cal and 250 carbs.
CJ_Xfit89
Board Sponsor
owlicks said:
How we go about arriving at a set point of fat loss is individual...
You may be metabolically positioned to use more carbs and be efficient where as others may not be...
The more efficient you are at using carbs as energy and not converting to fat, the better you are off.
For the mainstream, mod to low carb is fine and that alone can be the deficit(lack of carbs) where are all others remain at n=1
owlicks
Member
I disagree. In fact, my carb intake on workout days is still too low. YOU WILL NOT GET FAT from carb intake, so long as you are below your maintenance calorie level. You will, however, have trouble putting on mass if complex carbs do not make up a significant portion of your diet at least on lifting days. To reiterate, CARB INTAKE ALONE WILL NOT MAKE YOU FAT, but if you are trying to cut, carbs are the first area you should look to cut in your dietary plan because you simply can't afford to sacrifice the fat or protein.
Torobestia
Well-known member
They can if you eat the wrong ones at the wrong time.
owlicks
Member
White potatoes are complex carbs, but they are higher on the glycemic index than sweet potatoes, therefore they will cause your blood sugar level to rise more rapidly than sweet potatoes. Read: white potatoes are more useful in a post-workout meal than at other times.
Please elaborate?
Teddy21
New member
Calories in Vs calories out is ultimately what it comes down to. What the calories consist of is important, however protein and fat should be the primary concerns and carbs make up the the rest of the calories. Sticking to the basic rules of cutting, i.e 1 to 1.5g of protein per pound of bw and .4g of fat per pound of bw and a calorific deficit, it makes sense that the carb intake will naturally be a lot lower.
Basically, count calories not carbs.
Basically, count calories not carbs.
Teddy21
New member
Didn't realize this had basically been said. :34: Basically, +1.
Lockxxheed
New member
Carbs is the best option imo, kick in ketosis, keep dietary fat up, protien will be easily taken in and you get shredded also as long as your fats high enough you'll start producing more test
AustrianOakJr
Member
^^^ This. Keeping carbs around workout times is the ideal place to put them, but beyond that.....it makes little difference. Type of carb....or placement of carbs. Stick to a solid, balanced diet of protein/carbs/fats......reduce calories and train. Simple as that.
Torobestia
Well-known member
You're wrong, it can make a difference especially to those who are carb sensitive. Taking in either massive amounts of carbs or higher insulinogenic carbs at all times of the day will keep insulin high, promoting fat storage.
Yeah, exactly. It does matter. Taking in carbs peri-workout (pre, intra, post), and at breakfast if you wish(whatever time that may be for you) is most optimal.
I don't have qualms about the macro breakdown of a diet. Saying that when you take in carbs and what kinds is an idiotic statement. Half of america eats at maintenance or below but are as big as a truck.
Turnitup122
Member
Cut cals and carbs.
AustrianOakJr
Member
It seems like everyone on this forum is on this "insulin-fat-storage-dogma-thing". Meal timing is really a much lesser issue than people make it out to be. I do agree that the MOST OPTIMAL place to eat is an hour (give or take) before and an hour (give or take) after your workouts. Beyond that, whether you stack the rest of your carbs/calories at breakfast, lunch, or right before bed makes very little difference in your physique. The type of carbs you consume makes very little difference in body composition. The extremist will always argue something ridiculous like "what if someone eats pure honey all day long?" or something stupid like that. But bringing the discussion back to reality......it doesnt matter if you have white rice or brown, sweet potato or white, bread and pasta or oatmeal. Variety is the spice of life. And if you are a highly active person in a calorie deficit insulin control is not really worth worrying about.
Perhaps half of america is as big as a truck, but that is because they are eating ABOVE their maintenance calories. The term "maintenance" means the caloric intake required to maintain bodyweight. If half of America were eating below maintenance (ie. by defintition = losing weight) we would see a lot more skinny people walking around.
Torobestia
Well-known member
I can't tell if you're trying to have a discussion here or if you're having an argument for argument's sake. I was saying type of carbs and when you take them matter, and you're saying they do but that they don't? Fact is they do. And the difference between those food items you listed is too minimal, obviously, which is why I specified type of carb matters. I don't want someone thinking eating poptarts or a snickers with that chicken breast every few hours is ok so long as he keeps to his caloric needs. It's not. That carb choice is completely unhealthy, and this is not only backed with science but by the thousands upon thousands of poor attempts at cutting by those who maintain inconsistent diets. Thus my first point: carb choices matter.
Why timing? Exercise and fasting has an effect on insulin resistance, bringing it down. Sparing us the science, mostly because I've had too long of a day, the more sensitive you are to insulin, the more you drive nutrients into muscle cells and not adipose tissue. Which is again why eating that icecream right before bed, while it sounds like a good idea, probably isn't if you're trying to get shredded.
And your sig mentions you're a pro natural bodybuilder. So what is your own personal approach to your own diet if you're trying to cut to say 8, or 7, or 6% bf? Eating whatever, whenever?
Lastly, I love variety in my diet, so don't get me wrong there
But that is on a case by case basis. That's not the way it always is.
Torobestia
Well-known member
Basically
CJ_Xfit89
Board Sponsor
then when things start to plateau. you can use carbs to kick start the cutting phase too. Speed up metabolism and make for more hunger which will satisfy a carb 'craving' but then in turn can help make you look fuller and vascular...sorta like the Cyclic low carb stick...
AustrianOakJr
Member
It seems like I am getting into this discussion on a number of threads and people are thinking im freaking nuts or something. But I have simply been taught by other great professionals and have learned to ignore a lot of the bro-science dogma. My approach to dieting is that there are no foods off limits to me. I have set macro-nutrient targets I hit every day and if the food choice fits within those numbers I eat it. Do I eat snickers bars every day? No. But I do eat ice cream before bed just about every night. Well, its frozen yogurt, but whatever. I cover my micro-nutritional bases and get a good amount of fiber in my diet but I eat pretty much whatever I want. And I am naturally very endo morphic. I could be 10 lbs heavier by the end of the week if I wanted to be. I put on weight very fast if I am not diligently tracking my calorie intake. And I can assure you thats all it comes down to......counting and tracking. Insulin control is not even on my radar screen and I achieve low single digit BF percentages. As you lean out, insulin control is even less of an issue because you naturally become very insulin sensitive. And even if insulin should spike in a given meal....who the heck cares? You are in an overall deficit so therefore insulin falls when the carbs have been processed and now you are back into "fat burning mode". It all comes out in the end. We store fat, we burn it, we store, we burn.....all day long. Its the NET STORAGE that makes a difference in body composition.
Lockxxheed
New member
AaronJP1 said:
If it works for you go for it, you have to experiment it took me a 6 months of tweaking to find out what I needed. If that doesn't hit the spot for you try reading up on the anabolic diet 2.0
CJ_Xfit89
Board Sponsor
Here is my experience.
I Am a low carber. Beloved in wholegrains. Had them post w/o for brekky. Kept burping.
My lower stomach looked bloated.
Dropped all grains.
Lower bloat gone but I have some sucutaneous fat there. I also dropped 2kg from 77.3 to 75kg. I now eat yams and sweet potato instead and hold the weight.
No bloat, feel much better and best of all,
NO BURPING
I Am a low carber. Beloved in wholegrains. Had them post w/o for brekky. Kept burping.
My lower stomach looked bloated.
Dropped all grains.
Lower bloat gone but I have some sucutaneous fat there. I also dropped 2kg from 77.3 to 75kg. I now eat yams and sweet potato instead and hold the weight.
No bloat, feel much better and best of all,
NO BURPING
AustrianOakJr
Member
Sounds like you are a bit intolerant to gluten perhaps? I have a similar reaction to potatoe skins. Man, does it make for some serious gas issues! LOL. I peel the potatoes and im fine.
Glad I don't have this problem. I'm running late for work. So it's some chick fil a for breakfast. Have not had garbage all week and I usually wait until Saturday or Sunday but not today....
Beauty about chic-fil-a is that they list all their nutrition in a pretty handy format.....and you can actually eat pretty well there. When I go there, ill get the grilled sammich, a small potato wedge, and a diet coke and come out with a pretty balanced meal macro-wise.
AustrianOakJr
Member
Yeah. I ate a bacon biscuit and some hasbrowns and a sweet tea. I think I'll be alright.
Well, your meal was 21g of protein/ 92g of carbs, and 42g of fat. You ate my entire day's worth of fat in one sitting.
He he!
CJ_Xfit89
Board Sponsor
AustrianOakJr said:Well, your meal was 21g of protein/ 92g of carbs, and 42g of fat. You ate my entire day's worth of fat in one sitting.
Not a lot of fat... Honest question, do you find it hard to get aroused and be sexually active with such a lowish fat intake?
Curious. What fat sources do you get your fat from?
AustrianOakJr
Member
Fat intake is closely tied to testosterone and other hormone production. Heck, cholesterol is a main building block. But I find 40-50g of fat is enough to support me hormonally. I wont take it lower than 40 unless I am REALLLY pushing for the last pound or so. The biggest factor effecting my libido is bodyfat level. Libido takes a dive when I get lean.....if im above 9-10% BF, I am like a 16 yr old kid......I drop below 7-8% BF, i start to lose my interest and by the time I am stage-lean its all but completely gone. I dont care how high your fat intake is, if you are eating below maintenance at 4-5% BF, you will crash hormonally.
AustrianOakJr
Member
I need about 80g of fat a day.
Thx for the calculation
Thats the beauty of the chic-fil-a. They have that fancy online calculator and you just plug in your meal. Makes it too easy.
Highest I usually get with fat is 65g a day in full blown off season.
Torobestia
Well-known member
I think this is a very fair point. You're right, that happens, so if you're at that point in body composition you can probably be more relaxed.
I think overall it's important to emphasize carb timing to people, as there are a lot of people with different body types and lifestyles coming here checking for advice on how to drop weight. And carb timing will aid in achieving great results no less than 95% of the supplements one might buy.
As an aside, I know what you mean about being an endo. When I began bodybuilding I thought bulking meant not keeping track of what you eat, loosely speaking. Plus, I had this GDA supplement I received for free and I actually trusted that it would allow me to push the boundaries even more. So after a while I decided to bulk, and, well, long story short I put on about 30lbs in 3 weeks. It was not fun undoing that mess haha. (P.S. no, this was not from eating a McD's every day as I don't like to eat trash personally).
AaronJP1
Board Sponsor
One thing I learn is to try and stay around a good weight or to stay "lean" or how ever you want to be year round.
Here's the deal. No fun trying to add 30lbs just as well it's no fun trying to lose 30lbs. People trying to swell up to 230 from 200 then go back down & then back up. In my opinion unless you're a pro cleanly add weight if thats what you're after; may take longer but it's quality we are after.
There is no instant gratification in this sport.
Here's the deal. No fun trying to add 30lbs just as well it's no fun trying to lose 30lbs. People trying to swell up to 230 from 200 then go back down & then back up. In my opinion unless you're a pro cleanly add weight if thats what you're after; may take longer but it's quality we are after.
There is no instant gratification in this sport.