creatine?
- Thread starter shiggy504
- Start date
R1balla
Board Sponsor
no need to load. 3-5g is ideal. time doesnt really matter. its all about saturation. if i am taking a pre workout that has creatine, i just stick to that. if im taking a creatine free pre workout, i take mine post workout. non training days i take it with breakfast first thing in the morning.
mikeg313
Well-known member
I've always taken my creatine with my protein about 30-45 min before and then again the same combo after my workout. It's about ten (5grams a shake) grams on lift days and 5 on rest days. I'm prolly pissing out most of that 10 grams on lift days but its cheap and why not make sure you got plenty going to where ya need it? Maybe it's just me but u think its important to have it in you during workout and after for recovery .
R1balla
Board Sponsor
well, this is one way to get kidney issues...
mikeg313
Well-known member
5-10grams a day is fine and won't give you kidney issues. Just make sure you drink at least a gallon of water a day minumum. If anything you'll piss away alil cash spent. Some supp companies even recommend 10grsms on the bottle.
3clipseGT
On my grind
10 grams of creatine will give kidney issues? Havnt heard that before.
mikeg313
Well-known member
Lmao.
chris223
Active member
As has already been stated, this is a fallacy. Ten grams of creatine a day will not give kidney issues.
chris223
Active member
Ha!
mikeg313
Well-known member
I like to mainline or snort it so I'm not worried.
farmtireguy
Well-known member
I mix mine with sterile water and inject in my right testicle.
Mack411
Well-known member
Loading is not necessary!
Piston Honda
Well-known member
Agreed! Consistency is key rather than megadoses.
Adizzle1
Board Sponsor
I wouldnt bother with a loading phase, i would take 2-4 grams a day or even just on workout days. By the end of the first month you should be in full saturation. Maintain that dose for about 3 months and then take a break off. This would be my best recommendation.
PowerMax will also provide you with a full dose of creatine, there are some pre workouts that will do this for you so you can kill two birds with 1 stone. Something to think about.
PowerMax will also provide you with a full dose of creatine, there are some pre workouts that will do this for you so you can kill two birds with 1 stone. Something to think about.
Mack411
Well-known member
There is no need to cycle creatine,that would only be by personal preference.
mikeg313
Well-known member
This is crap. 2-4 grams a day and cycle it? Don't think so. There's no point in cycling creatine. No point in a loading phase. 5-10grams plain ol monohydrate a day is good. On lifting days split your daily dose pre and post workout so your muscles benefit during and for recovery. Drink plenty of water. A retard with a fork full of creatine couldn't hurt himself , don't make it harder then it has to be.
R1balla
Board Sponsor
whats your logic on taking more than 5g's?
mikeg313
Well-known member
Absorbtion. Your most likely pissing out most of it drinking that much water so why not make sure your getting enough in. It can't hurt it can only help. What's your logic?
R1balla
Board Sponsor
that 5g is plenty and you are wasting money on the other 5g you consume.
mikeg313
Well-known member
That's not logic that's an opinion. Ive gotten better results from years of dosing my creatine this way. Lifts and recovery.
R1balla
Board Sponsor
then good for you. in the past ive dosed it at 5,10,and 15g / day for 12 weeks each and didnt notice any difference.
mikeg313
Well-known member
No need to get sarcastic , your the one asking the questions
Adizzle1
Board Sponsor
There is speculation that long term creatine use can effect creatine transporter and cause down regulation after 12 week mark, however with low doses 2-4g/day this may not be an issue. I would personally cycle it like i would with anything but thats more of a personal option.
2-4 grams of Creatine Monohydrate taken 4-6 times a week is enough to maintain full creatine saturation, this has been shown and is not an opinion. Taking 5-10 grams would be unnecessary.
mikeg313
Well-known member
This has been shown not an opinion but you started by saying there has been speculation on this? Speculation sounds like more of an opinion rather then scientific data or even personal experience which is all I was offering.
Mack411
Well-known member
Exactly,it is just that,speculation.There are current studies showing there is no need for creatine to be cycled and at points I have used it for years at a 3-5g dose with with no break.I do tend to cycle everything I use now at some point or another.
Adizzle1
Board Sponsor
well i do believe there was a study showing down regulation by about 25% after 12 weeks. However as you said they're are other studies so i decided to use the word speculation.
I too have taken creatine straight for long periods of time with no noticeable drop off but again i would choose to cycle most things i take anyway.
I think were on the same page just stating things slightly different.
Adizzle1
Board Sponsor
My comment to you was more in reference to you recommending 5-10g, where as 2-4g would be sufficient and 5-10g would likley be a waste.
mikeg313
Well-known member
My recommendation was merely to assure significant absorption aside from the fact it's written on the bottle as a recommended daily dose. My tub of mono cost ten bucks and lasts me almost 3 months the way I use it. A teaspoon is 5grams and it comes with a teaspoon scoop. I toss one in my pre and post shakes and it works better for me then when I just take 5grams post workout. If its overkill then my waste is barely a dent in the coin purse. I could play around and try to lower it and see but its not gonna hurt me as is so why bother. I piss a couple cents down the drain then . I prolly waste a couple grams of protein since I don't level out my scoops either and intake more then "they" say can be absorbed at once. I do what works for me and I get results. As cheap and safe as it is I don't think there's any harm in it as long as its used with proper caution(water intake mainly). Unless scientific data is provided to right one of us and disprove the other then its all speculation. Your experience works for you and mine for mine
R1balla
Board Sponsor
Invalid Link Removed cycling is a personal preference option. Many individuals cycle creatine, using for 2-3 months before taking a month or so off. Others do not cycle it and use it all the time - I am one of those people, and the only time I have off creatine is if I have run out of my creatine/product containing creatine and are waiting on another.
If you are considering creatine cycling, be aware that your muscle creatine threshold levels return to baseline after three weeks of ceasing creatine usage.
Once your muscle creatine threshold has been reached, 2-3 grams of Invalid Link Removed daily is enough to keep them saturated. You will often see ~5 grams of creatine a day recommended - this is well over the necessary creatine required to maintain saturation and more than this is definitely not needed.
Once your body has reached its muscle creatine threshold (between 150-160 mmol/kg/dw for everyone), then using more than 3-5g of creatine daily is not going to saturate them any further, so there's no point in using more than that."
Reference
If you are considering creatine cycling, be aware that your muscle creatine threshold levels return to baseline after three weeks of ceasing creatine usage.
Once your muscle creatine threshold has been reached, 2-3 grams of Invalid Link Removed daily is enough to keep them saturated. You will often see ~5 grams of creatine a day recommended - this is well over the necessary creatine required to maintain saturation and more than this is definitely not needed.
Once your body has reached its muscle creatine threshold (between 150-160 mmol/kg/dw for everyone), then using more than 3-5g of creatine daily is not going to saturate them any further, so there's no point in using more than that."
Reference
- Burke, L., Cort, M., Cox, G., Crawford, R., Desbrow, B., Farthing, L., Minehan, M., Shaw, N. & Warnes, O. (2006). Supplements and sports foods. In L. Burke & V. Deakin. (Eds.). Clinical sports nutrition (3rd ed.). (p. 485-579). NSW, Australia: McGraw Hill.
R1balla
Board Sponsor
farmtireguy
Well-known member
Just take it in the am
mikeg313
Well-known member
I should have asked whats your motivation since you seem inclined to be one of those toss it in your face smartass types .
R1balla
Board Sponsor
not at all. just posting the facts about creatine and you asked me a question which i was replying to.
mikeg313
Well-known member
Then I retract my question. Lol. So they say in that that 2-3 grams is what you can absorb in muscle tissue but does that take into account what you lose through digestion? Because if you ingest 2-3 grams of creatine it stands to reason that you don't absorb a percentage of that don't ya think?
R1balla
Board Sponsor
Ill have to find my studies i have somewhere around here in order to answer that. but if im not mistaken, they stated that once you reach full saturation, about 2-4g of so per day will keep you saturated and anything else above that limit is useless.
mikeg313
Well-known member
Have any of these studies been done in labs by real scientists/doctors? I didn't see any PHDs next to any of those names. I know alot of the supplements we take have never really had many if any actual professional scientific documentation/studies/etc. done. Alot of dosage amounts on many supps seem merely speculation as the dosages are " recommended" amounts not prescribed amounts for results. Kinda seems like recommendation alot of the time is a base or safe( from a liability standpoint) amount the user has to work from to test what's effective on themselves.
Another thought is with supplements such as creatine doesn't weight and muscle size half a factor in determining dosage amount? I would think a 220lb guy vs. a guy that weighs 150 with roughly same height and bf% would have different absorption rates and tolerances considering the size difference.
Another thought is with supplements such as creatine doesn't weight and muscle size half a factor in determining dosage amount? I would think a 220lb guy vs. a guy that weighs 150 with roughly same height and bf% would have different absorption rates and tolerances considering the size difference.
R1balla
Board Sponsor
again, i have to find somewhere on this forum or on PHF where i posted the studies done by real doctors. Rosie also has a few. ill message her on facebook and see if she can link me.
mikeg313
Well-known member
I was just adding some more food for thought with the whole size/weight thing. In theory that sounds sensible, it would be interesting to know for sure .
chris223
Active member
The studies cited show that muscle creatine saturation can be maintained with as little as two to four grams a day; that is the amount needed to maintain maximal muscle saturation, NOT the maximum amount that can be absorbed. Moreover, studies exist showing that muscle creatine saturation can be achieved in 28 days with as little as three grams a day. All that said, there is little reason to halve your five-gram scoop given the low cost of creatine, and even if perceived benefit from dosing five grams twice a day is placebo, it is nonetheless a benefit. Again, given the low cost, there is no reason not to do it if you feel it improves your results. Also, ten grams a day of creatine will not bloat you more than five grams, assuming creatine does indeed bloat you at all, since the idea that creatine causes bloat is largely horse****. As far as supplements being researched or not, creatine has been researched to death. If someone cites a study done on creatine, it's probably legit because there are thousands of them out there. Lastly, if I recall correctly (and I think I do), the study showing down-regulation of creatine transporters with long-term use also showed that the down-regulation did not negatively effect muscle creatine stores with continued supplementation.
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