Craze - The Peer-reviewed published proof

[kissdadookie]

Aegeline is non-enzymatically cleaved into cis/trans-cinnamic acid (phenylacrylic acid) and the octopamine derivative. No one knows how it is enzymatically metabolized in the liver.

Either of the substituents (or aegeline as a whole) could be hepatotoxic.

This is why toxicity studies should be run on new compounds before they are haphazardly introduced into the supplement market.

I would think that if it was hepatotoxic, we would have known by now seeing how there's been many people double dosing Versa-1 for awhile, some even triple dosing I think. TBH, my guess is that if anything, either not much of aegeline metabolizes or most of it metabolizes into the octopamine derivative because i didn't get much of anything from it. Or I could be a non-responder, who knows.

 

[Piston Honda]

any company using dendrobium should be ashamed of themselves...

Even if it comes back lab-tested free of ETH?

 

[lronFist]

I would think that if it was hepatotoxic, we would have known by now seeing how there's been many people double dosing Versa-1 for awhile, some even triple dosing I think. TBH, my guess is that if anything, either not much of aegeline metabolizes or most of it metabolizes into the octopamine derivative because i didn't get much of anything from it. Or I could be a non-responder, who knows.

It may or may not be aegeline that is causing the hepatotoxicity.

That said, people may metabolize the compound slower/ineffectively (i.e. those with aldehyde dehydrogenase deficiency) which may produce hepatotoxicity.

 

[kissdadookie]

It may or may not be aegeline that is causing the hepatotoxicity.

That said, people may metabolize the compound slower/ineffectively (i.e. those with aldehyde dehydrogenase deficiency) which may produce hepatotoxicity.

So it would appear that Synmr Industry distributes the raw for aegeline but the stuff has no CAS... hmmmmmmm.

 

[domore]

It may or may not be aegeline that is causing the hepatotoxicity.

That said, people may metabolize the compound slower/ineffectively (i.e. those with aldehyde dehydrogenase deficiency) which may produce hepatotoxicity.

Isn't aegeline in PES Enhanced, too?

 

[kissdadookie]

Isn't aegeline in PES Enhanced, too?

Yup, not sure why it's in there but Enhanced does indeed work, I wouldn't call the stuff anabolic though and thermo effects I would much sooner credit the yohimbine extract in there first and foremost.

 

[lronFist]

I would much sooner credit the yohimbine extract in there first and foremost.

As would I.

 

[jamesm11]

you are clearly missing the point of my statement. We have a patent on Cissus and pending on Aegeline, it means something.

Patent on Cissus has been pending since 2006, if it hasn't issued within 3-5 years then it's not getting issued. Unless USPLabs isn't the assignee or owner. In which case, what is the number?

The Aegeline one was submitted when? Because there's 4 prior arts that may prevent that too.

Patent pending means nothing. It means you paid either a provisional patent for cheap just to get an early file or a patent application and paid money. I can file a for a patent of my iPhone tomorrow and say "patent pending" but it means nothing because it will never issue.

 

[jimbuick]

Yup, not sure why it's in there but Enhanced does indeed work, I wouldn't call the stuff anabolic though and thermo effects I would much sooner credit the yohimbine extract in there first and foremost.

For the focus aspect that people were noticing with it.

 

[kissdadookie]

For the focus aspect that people were noticing with it.

For Enhanced? I would think that the choline and higenamine would be the stars for the great focus from the product.

 

[jimbuick]

For Enhanced? I would think that the choline and higenamine would be the stars for the great focus from the product.

No, people were noticing enhanced focus from Versa-1 so they added it to enhanced.

Along with the body composition benefits that testers noticed (which I can neither confirm nor deny that happening or not as I haven't used it yet).

 

[jamesm11]

No, people were noticing enhanced focus from Versa-1 so they added it to enhanced. Along with the body composition benefits that testers noticed (which I can neither confirm nor deny that happening or not as I haven't used it yet).

The concentration from versa-1 likely was the cdp-choline though

 

[jimbuick]

The concentration from versa-1 likely was the cdp-choline though

Maybe, maybe not.


I certainly won't be the guy who definitively says anything about something they haven't tried. All I know is what the people who have used it have said, and my experiences with enhanced. So the inclusion of aegeline certainly doesn't hurt the formula as is.

 

[mw1]

No, people were noticing enhanced focus from Versa-1 so they added it to enhanced.

Along with the body composition benefits that testers noticed (which I can neither confirm nor deny that happening or not as I haven't used it yet).

I thought most didn't notice anything from Versa-1?

 

[jimbuick]

I thought most didn't notice anything from Versa-1?

Most of the beta testers on here did, and people have since. The non responders (if you want to call them that) just tend to be more outspoken with products.

 

[Quadzilla99]

I thought most didn't notice anything from Versa-1?

More people mentioned it here than any other single product by far

Invalid Link Removed

Of course the sponsored logs might beg to differ but it's hard to rip on something you got for free. Like for me If I get something free and it sucks I just don't review it personally. If I get a pm from a rep saying you promised a review I just say "bro you want me to go log in and give it a 2/10?" Usually they don't bother me after that

 

[jimbuick]

More people mentioned it here than any other single product by far

Invalid Link Removed

Of course the sponsored logs might beg to differ but it's hard to rip on something you got for free. Like for me If I get something free and it sucks I just don't review it personally. If I get a pm from a rep saying you promised a review I just say "bro you want me to go log in and give it a 2/10?" Usually they don't bother me after that

I'm aware.

I don't generally agree to log things I don't expect to like. But if I were to get a product under the premise that I would log and review it, I would review it no matter what I saw or didn't see.


Again, I won't be the guy that says it does or does not work. I haven't used it, I just know from the logs I've seen and the comments from the people who I believe to be reputable on this site (and from people I know personally that had good results with the IC release purchases.)

 

[De__eB]

So it would appear that Synmr Industry distributes the raw for aegeline but the stuff has no CAS... hmmmmmmm.

Lots of companies distribute the raw for aegle marmelos/aegeline, just because they were the #1 result when you googled it doesn't mean they're USPLabs distributor

It's CAS is 456-12-2

 

[Quadzilla99]

I'm aware.

I don't generally agree to log things I don't expect to like. But if I were to get a product under the premise that I would log and review it, I would review it no matter what I saw or didn't see.


Again, I won't be the guy that says it does or does not work. I haven't used it, I just know from the logs I've seen and the comments from the people who I believe to be reputable on this site (and from people I know personally that had good results with the IC release purchases.)

Out of curiosity do you have links to stuff you got for free and then panned

 

[Touey]

I have never see jim pan more then otherwise review, maybe he in all honest like result

 

[jimbuick]

Out of curiosity do you have links to stuff you got for free and then panned

No, but I can name them.


OG Paragon + Prodigy (8 weeks, 4 sponsored)
AN Free Test, N.O Uptake, IGF 2 (N.O Uptake + IGF 2 sponsored for 4 weeks, total run of the 3 was 8 with me buying everything else)
AN Uptake, Uncut, Drive, IGF 2 (4 weeks, sponsored everything but uncut)
G8, BCAA/SAA, MAX pump ( 4 weeks, sponsored everything but MP)

I know the last was called "Jim gets a month of R+R..." or something along those lines. The rest were early this year, I don't remember the thread titles.

 

[thebigt]

I have never see jim pan more then otherwise review, maybe he in all honest like result

jim has a really good rep...he can log pretty much what he wants, it's not hard to look at ing's and figure the supps that have a very good chance of being good.

 

[jimbuick]

, it's not hard to look at ing's and figure the supps that have a very good chance of being good.

Definitely this.

If it doesn't look good, it isn't worth applying to log.

 

[lronFist]

No, people were noticing enhanced focus from Versa-1 so they added it to enhanced.

Along with the body composition benefits that testers noticed (which I can neither confirm nor deny that happening or not as I haven't used it yet).

Any focus that was obtained from aegline was merely from placebo. It does not cross the blood brain barrier (intact or otherwise).

If you don't have a dog in this fight, which you declare you don't, then now is a good time to bow out.

 

[jimbuick]

Any focus that was obtained from aegline was merely from placebo. It does not cross the blood brain barrier (intact or otherwise).

If you don't have a dog in this fight, which you declare you don't, then now is a good time to bow out.

I have no reason to bow out of anything, why are you so abrasive? I've literally done nothing to you, nor have I ever even had online interactions with you.

Maybe so, I read the link to your blog where you talk about it (assuming HTP is yours, which I think it is but don't know for sure). I've said multiple times that I have yet to use Versa-1, but I do know what the people I've seen have noticed from it.

Honestly, who gives a crap if all it is is placebo? If you aren't getting a certain result without it, and then you take it and have that result, why does it matter what mechanisms lead to it?

 

[Touey]

I have no reason to bow out of anything, why are you so abrasive? I've literally done nothing to you, nor have I ever even had online interactions with you.

Maybe so, I read the link to your blog where you talk about it (assuming HTP is yours, which I think it is but don't know for sure). I've said multiple times that I have yet to use Versa-1, but I do know what the people I've seen have noticed from it.

Honestly, who gives a crap if all it is is placebo? If you aren't getting a certain result without it, and then you take it and have that result, why does it matter what mechanisms lead to it?

lol I like that post jim..plus trying all kind of new supplement is a fun time!! Let us not forget.

 

[lronFist]

I have no reason to bow out of anything, why are you so abrasive? I've literally done nothing to you, nor have I ever even had online interactions with you.

Maybe so, I read the link to your blog where you talk about it (assuming HTP is yours, which I think it is but don't know for sure). I've said multiple times that I have yet to use Versa-1, but I do know what the people I've seen have noticed from it.

Honestly, who gives a crap if all it is is placebo? If you aren't getting a certain result without it, and then you take it and have that result, why does it matter what mechanisms lead to it?

I have a hard time believing you aren't being compensated by USPlabs.

 

[thebigt]

I have no reason to bow out of anything, why are you so abrasive? I've literally done nothing to you, nor have I ever even had online interactions with you.

Maybe so, I read the link to your blog where you talk about it (assuming HTP is yours, which I think it is but don't know for sure). I've said multiple times that I have yet to use Versa-1, but I do know what the people I've seen have noticed from it.

Honestly, who gives a crap if all it is is placebo? If you aren't getting a certain result without it, and then you take it and have that result, why does it matter what mechanisms lead to it?

lol...i don't need a degree in aerodynamics to know how airplane's fly....just that they do!!!

 

[T-Bone]

Honestly, who gives a crap if all it is is placebo? If you aren't getting a certain result without it, and then you take it and have that result, why does it matter what mechanisms lead to it?

I agree with you here Jimbo!. So many times I see people cry "Placebo! Placebo!"...What is the difference right?. For me, I'd rather be ignorant and continue getting my placebo gains rather than stop taking something because some online "Guru" says it doesn't work.

 

[jimbuick]

I have a hard time believing you aren't being compensated by USPlabs.

Lolz.


I remember when USPLabs reps talked about how the only reason the supps might work could be because of placebo too.

 

[thebigt]

I have a hard time believing you aren't being compensated by USPlabs.

belief is not based on fact....

 

[lronFist]

belief is not based on fact....

Brilliant. You got me.

 

[lronFist]

Lolz.


I remember when USPLabs reps talked about how the only reason the supps might work could be because of placebo too.

Huh? What does this mean?

 

[jimbuick]

lol...i don't need a degree in aerodynamics to know how airplane's fly....just that they do!!!

Exactly.

I feel like I've heard you talk about this before on here, yes?

I agree with you here Jimbo!. So many times I see people cry "Placebo! Placebo!"...What is the difference right?. For me, I'd rather be ignorant and continue getting my placebo gains rather than stop taking something because some online "Guru" says it doesn't work.

And I know I've heard it from you lol!

As long as the results keep coming I don't care how it happened.

belief is not based on fact....

Right? I wish somebody would give me free stuff to share my opinion.

 

[lronFist]

I agree with you here Jimbo!. So many times I see people cry "Placebo! Placebo!"...What is the difference right?. For me, I'd rather be ignorant and continue getting my placebo gains rather than stop taking something because some online "Guru" says it doesn't work.

Oh, is that how SNS products work? Good to know.

 

[jimbuick]

Huh? What does this mean?

Just that I've never, ever, seen any company rep say this about one of the products they represent.

Honestly, who gives a crap if all it is is placebo? If you aren't getting a certain result without it, and then you take it and have that result, why does it matter what mechanisms lead to it?

 

[T-Bone]

Oh, is that how SNS products work? Good to know.

Seriously now?

 

[jimbuick]

Oh, is that how SNS products work? Good to know.

Like this kind of thing.

Why is that called for?

 

[lronFist]

Just that I've never, ever, seen any company rep say this about one of the products they represent.

Well I think T-Bone is saying that SNS work by placebo, so there ya go!

 

[jimbuick]

Well I think T-Bone is saying that SNS work by placebo, so there ya go!

No, you don't.


You're obviously just trying to stir **** up.

 

[lronFist]

No, you don't.


You're obviously just trying to stir **** up.

Would I be far off if I said you road the short bus to school?

 

[Bryancap77]

Well I think T-Bone is saying that SNS work by placebo, so there ya go!

That's not what it sounded like to me....

Anywho, any new updates on the craze situation??

 

[Touey]

Would I be far off if I said you road the short bus to school?

lol what is that meaning

 

[lronFist]

Lets think about this logically.

A company (USPlabs) introduces a product containing two ingredients (aegeline, CDP-choline).

One of those ingredients has a known set of expectations (CDP-choline), whereas the other is a complete question mark (aegeline) [i.e. no human studies whatsoever].

The people that categorize the response of the whole product (i.e. "focus) to the unknown variable (aegeline), while minimizing the possibility that the results could be solely due to the known response, are idiots. You fall into this category.

 

[lronFist]

That's not what it sounded like to me....

Anywho, any new updates on the craze situation??

Sorry man. The only thing I can think now is that SNS products are designed to prey on mentally weak people with placebo.

 

[jamesm11]

Sorry man. The only thing I can think now is that SNS products are designed to prey on mentally weak people with placebo.

You say something intelligent in your previous post and then this. Not sure what products by SNS you are attacking but most have a lot of science backing them. They're the same things you can usually buy in bulk from other places.

 

[thebigt]

Sorry man. The only thing I can think now is that SNS products are designed to prey on mentally weak people with placebo.

you do know that SNS is a sponsor of this forum, right?

 

[lronFist]

you do know that SNS is a sponsor of this forum, right?

Oh god. what have I done?

 

[lronFist]

You say something intelligent in your previous post and then this. Not sure what products by SNS you are attacking but most have a lot of science backing them. They're the same things you can usually buy in bulk from other places.

I'm just giving T-Bone **** based off his asinine comment above.

derp

 

[jimbuick]

Would I be far off if I said you road the short bus to school?

Really?

lol what is that meaning

He is trying to imply that I am mentally handicapped.

Lets think about this logically.

A company (USPlabs) introduces a product containing two ingredients (aegeline, CDP-choline).

One of those ingredients has a known set of expectations (CDP-choline), whereas the other is a complete question mark (aegeline) [i.e. no human studies whatsoever].

The people that categorize the response of the whole product (i.e. "focus) to the unknown variable (aegeline), while minimizing the possibility that the results could be solely due to the known response, are idiots. You fall into this category.

I never once said that.

I stated what people who have used it said about it (the product itself) and named a few reasons, based upon those statements, that it may have been used in another product.

You say something intelligent in your previous post and then this. Not sure what products by SNS you are attacking but most have a lot of science backing them. They're the same things you can usually buy in bulk from other places.

As I stated previously, he's just trying to stir **** up.

you do know that SNS is a sponsor of this forum, right?

Why does that matter?

He looks like just another guy with nothing better to do than cause issues on an internet forum.

Who has he helped with any of his comments ITT? No one?