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Confusing Symptoms/Side Effects

kenpoengineer said:
Electrolytes are the first thing doctor look at for heart issues -flutter. Several older family members had problems involving potassium and sodium imbalances due to medication.
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Gotcha. Apparently hyperkalemia can cause heart failure! And I’m on 2 potassium sparing drugs now. Just doesn’t seem like a good idea.

Any idea what problems specifically or symptoms they had?
 
Heart palpitations and flutter. Weakness and brain fog.
 
kenpoengineer said:
Heart palpitations and flutter. Weakness and brain fog.
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My brain is ok, but I’m a little tired physically and have lower body muscle cramps. Haven’t had the pins and needles in an hour or so, so I’m happy about that. I’m really stuck as to know what to do. Nervous about that “hard to breathe” thing happening again.

I’m just sure I don’t want to be on this beta blocker and the ARB at the same time.

On the positive side, the flutters and palpitations I’ve been dealing with for 10 months have not shown up at all today! Libido is coming back and vascularity as well. It’s crazy how sensitive to estrogen I am.
 
Got some flutters and palpitations eventually. BP was up to 140/76, but during a fun anxiety attack. Easy explanation. And below explains why I’m still having them.
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That was from 5 days ago. Now the question is what really prevented my e2 from climbing after 3 months no AI. My best guess is still apigenin since it was in the multi and it’s in lemon balm which I frequently used. But I don’t really know.

The more pressing matter is why my doctor hasn’t gotten back to me regarding this potential electrolyte problem. I’m debating on heading to urgent care or the ER after work, especially if the difficulty breathing thing happens again.
 
Newest labs.
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Had it drawn 1 day later than I should’ve so that test number looks good, in my opinion. That’s using 140mg test per week, 15mg DHEA.

Interesting to note, regular e2 test days 19 but sensitive e2 says 11 drawn within days of each other.
 
Pregnenolone is crashed - supplement with pregnenolone 25 mg every day.

ALT/AST is high. Your liver is being stressed. No alcohol or pain relievers.

Estradiol is a bit low still.

Blood donation is recommended in a month or so. MCHC being high is probably from past blood donation.

BUN is due to high protein diet.

DHEA can be increased by supplementing with more DHEA.
 
I’m throwing out another theory regarding what sent me to the ER and considered calling 911 tonight about.

Too much magnesium. I’ve only been taking magnesium this past week and it just happened again. Started to get breathing difficulties, freezing hands and legs to the point of shivering, heart racing, and spaced out. I took 1/4 tsp sea salt and it’s calming down slowly.

No more magnesium huh? I hope this theory is correct, because I’m really tired of this. What clued me into this was somehow ended up reading about hypocalcemia which I have several symptoms, including the pins and needles and lower body cramps that started this weekend. Should I consider supplementing a little calcium or just drink some milk to see if it balances out? Heart is still pounding and a bit out of it still, but warming back up and breathing is getting easier. Weird how salt stops it...

But, I could be wrong as well. I just know I won’t be using magnesium anymore.
 
Hope you get better man your going through a rough time. May I ask have you had a bad cut or a bite the past couple of months.
 
patrick25 said:
Hope you get better man your going through a rough time. May I ask have you had a bad cut or a bite the past couple of months.
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Cut my thumb with my knife pretty deep but got a tentanus shot a few hours after about 4 months ago. Are you thinking tetanus or something else?
 
Holy mackerel. I sure hope you figure this out.
 
Your symptoms to me look like a possible bacterial infection. There are a number of bacteria that can cause these symptoms. Staph. Tetanus etc. I know they gave you a shot for that but maybe blood work checking for things like that.
 
patrick25 said:
Your symptoms to me look like a possible bacterial infection. There are a number of bacteria that can cause these symptoms. Staph. Tetanus etc. I know they gave you a shot for that but maybe blood work checking for things like that.
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Maybe, but the symptoms do follow taking the magnesium and get better when taking sea salt. I’ll definitely keep it in mind and ask about it. If it was infection, I just don’t think I’d feel so normal around bed time and when I wake up, right? Then there’s definitely periods of the day without any symptoms and plenty of energy. Also, that dose of magnesium last night also made me feel totally out of it, like I had taken a drug.
I was tested for Lyme on this last lab work which I’m waiting on.
 
Ended up going to ER again with difficulty breathing but of course they found nothing wrong. This was after eating breakfast (no magnesium today), and after discharge ate dinner and again, “bronchospasm or Laryngospasm.” Those diagnoses I’m putting together after reading a bunch but it is definitely correlated with eating. Guess I should start the Prilosec and see if it helps that?

Magnesium and electrolyte levels were normal, so I was wrong about that. GERD can cause Laryngospasm. But bisoprolol can cause bronchospasm so I really need to stop taking that. That could also be accounting for the pins and needles and leg cramps.

I pick up my 30 day heart monitor tomorrow, and afterwards I’m going to donate. My hemoglobin is now 18.7! Hematocrit is still 50 though, oddly.

Also starting to wonder if I just do not tolerate Dessicated thyroid meds and need to switch back to synthroid. My pulse and blood pressure go up about an hour after I take it (I think, still piecing together) and calms down 12 hours later. My doctor doesn’t think that’s the problem because I haven’t had issues since the switch that we’re different from before. But, I’m not taking any supplements for anxiety anymore, particularly lemon balm which can treat hyperthyroidism. Other symptoms that may pertain to this are sweaty hands, flushing of hands and face, and of course anxiety and nervousness.
 
Food allergy of some sort? Is someone in the house making food for you that might be trying some new ingredients? Ice tainted with bacteria?
 
patrick25 said:
Have you ever done a DNA health test.
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No, like a mthfr test or something?

kenpoengineer said:
Food allergy of some sort? Is someone in the house making food for you that might be trying some new ingredients? Ice tainted with bacteria?
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Well, I make all the food in our home and our diets are pretty consistent. The bacteria thought is interesting though.

I just asked my doctor about switching back to synthroid at least for now to see if that effects the blood pressure and flushing.

Can’t donate today. Red Cross is closed again due to weather. Definitely will tomorrow.
 
Update: Doctor agreed and said switch back to levothyroxine (Synthroid). She also gave me a script for Clonidine to switch to instead of bisoprolol. Thank God (seriously).

My current palpitations situation is absolutely by the clock. Starts an hour or 2 after waking and I have it until about 6 pm and worsens when I eat. I’ve also noticed that my pulse and blood pressure are extremely “reactive” to activity, whether it just be standing up or walking around or whatever. Pulse will jump 30 points. When I’m walking on the treadmill for my warm up at the gym, my pulse will be 120. Has to be thyroid related right? Along with the flushing and randomly warm moist hands. Praying for a miracle here. I’m so tired of all this.
 
Thats one thing that is frustrating with doctors they test for one thing at a time and now you have major bills that will come from that. I recently went to the gp all he did was talk about college football. Then says I'll send you to a specialist. Thanks
 
patrick25 said:
Thats one thing that is frustrating with doctors they test for one thing at a time and now you have major bills that will come from that. I recently went to the gp all he did was talk about college football. Then says I'll send you to a specialist. Thanks
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With all the junk I have going on, I don’t mind seeing a bunch of specialists.

I’m donating blood right now. Hemoglobin up to 19! I’m hoping this takes away the shortness of breath and dizziness and brings down my blood pressure.

Today is day 1 on synthroid, and still took 1.25mg bisoprolol because I was told not to change 2 things at one time. I already feel a significant difference. I don’t feel all wound up and actually feel a little relaxed.
 
kenpoengineer said:
Hematocrit drops about 3 % per donated unit of whole blood.
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With a hemoglobin of 19 and a hematocrit of 50, think I need to try to get a prescription phlebotomy ASAP?

Obviously reducing my testosterone dose and even switching to levothyroxine because I know the dose that works, as I’ve read too much thyroid hormone can increase hemoglobin as well. Just don’t know if I should try to get more blood out before the balance takes effect.
 
GreenMachineX said:
With a hemoglobin of 19 and a hematocrit of 50, think I need to try to get a prescription phlebotomy ASAP?

Obviously reducing my testosterone dose and even switching to levothyroxine because I know the dose that works, as I’ve read too much thyroid hormone can increase hemoglobin as well. Just don’t know if I should try to get more blood out before the balance takes effect.
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No. In fact, 50 really is not that high. One blood donation should be all you need right now. Here is a handy TRT management table:
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kenpoengineer said:
No. In fact, 50 really is not that high. One blood donation should be all you need right now. Here is a handy TRT management table:
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No, but I definitely feel better. Can breathe better and hands and face aren’t red anymore. I’ll wait until my next doctor appointment in 2 weeks and see where I’m at.
 
Oh wow just read this whole thread. Sorry you’re going through this. I have weird symptoms all the time too I just kind of deal with it now. What you’re going through sounds very very exhausting but you will figure it out. Looks like the thyroid med switch is making a big difference already
 
Something fun to add to the equation.
I’ve developed a “fear” of what my BP might be and subsequently my BP jumps way too high.

This morning, after sitting calmly for 5 minutes, as soon as I started the BP machine, my palpitations started and I had trouble controlling my breathing and my BP was 154/82. I gave it another 5 minutes of really concentrating on “belly breathing” and prayer, and my BP was 131/82, and the palpitations were very minor if at all present and felt relaxed.

How much of my BP spikes over the past 2 weeks could be straight up anxiety? This was all before the 25mg losartan and 1.25mg bisoprolol has a chance to kick in. I know I’ve developed “health anxiety” as I’ve heard it coined.

Anyone have any thoughts on how long it should take the Nature-Throid to be completely out of my system and be only left with Synthroid? Today is day 2 Synthroid.

Edit: and just now BP at 127/79. No palpitations during and felt relaxed. BP meds may be starting to work now though.
 
BlockBuilder said:
Oh wow just read this whole thread. Sorry you’re going through this. I have weird symptoms all the time too I just kind of deal with it now. What you’re going through sounds very very exhausting but you will figure it out. Looks like the thyroid med switch is making a big difference already
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Yeah, I believe it is making a difference. But, at the same time, I don’t know how much of all of this is psychosomatic or placebo. I know not all of it, but the BP spikes might be.
 
Further developments:

I’m starting to think the breathing difficulties (asthma type feeling), pins and needles, lower body muscle cramps, this strange sensation on my skin (for example, Beard feels extra prickly) is actually elevated histamine.

My theory is when I had that overmethylation nightmare, I stopped all supplements including multivitamins and have completely reversed to undermethylation/high histamine. The symptoms have been worse after eating lots of protein (steak/pork) that’s been leftover in fridge.

I’m introducing a new multivitamin (Thorne 2 a day) at a dose that only provides 100% Methyl-folate RDA so as to not overmethylate again, in addition to a couple grams vitamin C a day, but that’s all for now. Oh, and at least a cup of peppermint tea a day. I had one last night and was passing out in 30 minutes lol.
 
Another update:
Symptoms are improving, still have transient anxiety but very manageable. Peppermint tea knocks out the high histamine symptoms such as difficulty breathing, itchiness and skin prickliness, and even clears some brain fog. Today is the first day I’ve taken a full dose of my multi so hopefully I don’t trigger another overmethylated state, but I do have niacin at the ready if I do. Definitely feeling better overall than the past few weeks, but still have 1 very concerning symptom...tingling hands and legs/feet.

It started a week after I had stopped all supplements, and around when the difficulty breathing started, and 2 days after I started the bisoprolol. The day it started was also a few hours after beginning my shoulder rehab and thoracic spine mobility work. Nothing I haven’t done before (except 1 upper body exercise which easily explains why the feeling is only in the right arm now as I’ve stretched back out the left). But I don’t know what to do about my lower body. Kneeling down triggers it for hours, and when it was really bad a few days ago, just driving in the truck triggered pins and needles in my lower legs and feet.

I’m pretty sure it’s due to the stretching exercises, but I don’t know why all of a sudden now it’s a problem. But, it could also be part of the methylation stuff because I have noticed it’s not present when I’m in an overmethylated state. I’m really hoping it’s not a side effect of bisoprolol, but that wouldn’t make sense either because I was prescribed that for years at a much stronger dose until I tapered off a few months ago. I do plan to stop it again soon.

I have an appointment with my chiro on Friday for this.
 
I went through something like this two years ago.

I would get heart palpitations on the clock, feel light headed and unbalanced when walking.
The pins and needle feelings on my legs and lips would kick in usually before a panic attack.

At first doctors thought it was Thyroid related since my labs came back with a elevated TSH(5.1). So I was placed on T4 which only added to my strange symptoms, switched to Natureroid and ended chasing lab ranges for a full year. I was almost certain that I needed to have my TSH levels under 1.0 as read online.

About 6 months ago I switched jobs and had to get a new doctor. So I was taken off the thyroid meds, As he felt I didn’t have a thyroid issue. Slowly but surely my symptoms weren’t as severe, no more shallow/out of breath or nervousness. Took labs 2 months after stopping T3/T4 and TSH was at 2.0

Bottom line, my symptoms were all due to Anxiety and me thinking I had a health issue made it worse. I still get anxiety from time to time but it’s nothing compared to what it was before.
 
cheloz28 said:
I went through something like this two years ago.

I would get heart palpitations on the clock, feel light headed and unbalanced when walking.
The pins and needle feelings on my legs and lips would kick in usually before a panic attack.

At first doctors thought it was Thyroid related since my labs came back with a elevated TSH(5.1). So I was placed on T4 which only added to my strange symptoms, switched to Natureroid and ended chasing lab ranges for a full year. I was almost certain that I needed to have my TSH levels under 1.0 as read online.

About 6 months ago I switched jobs and had to get a new doctor. So I was taken off the thyroid meds, As he felt I didn’t have a thyroid issue. Slowly but surely my symptoms weren’t as severe, no more shallow/out of breath or nervousness. Took labs 2 months after stopping T3/T4 and TSH was at 2.0

Bottom line, my symptoms were all due to Anxiety and me thinking I had a health issue made it worse. I still get anxiety from time to time but it’s nothing compared to what it was before.
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Interesting. No more palpitations or anything?
 
cheloz28 said:
No more palpitations or light headed feeling. I’m still dealing with lingering Anxiety but nothing severe.
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Well, I do know not everything I’m experiencing is “all in my head”. As I’ve been able to raise my e2 and switched to synthroid, I don’t clean drain hair out the shower every day anymore, flutters and palpitations are just about gone, but still have morning anxiety by the clock and insomnia. Heart rate is still consistently mildly elevated and jumps with very small movements. Blood pressure during the morning anxiety today was 141/75. I need to check it later in the day when I’m really calm.
 
I hate to recommend anything to complicate things after all you have done to simplify the situation, but I highly recommend 5-10 g of glycine and a dose if ZMA before bed. Much better sleep and improved stress response the following day in my experience. The glycine is very very noticeable in days where I had less sleep than normal the night before, despite losing sleep I often don't even notice the next day.

Also, not saying anything is or isn't 100% psychosomatic, just an interesting story. One night I ordered a pizza. The front door of my house was directly in front of my stairs and I was on my cell ordering the pizza in the hallway at the top of the stairs. I hung up the phone and instantly started hearing a star he banging on my front door.

I laughed and said to my girlfriend, "Fastest pizza ever!"

But the banging was strange. Not like someone knocking on my front door, more like a thumping. I opened the door and a guy was standing there pale faced. He asked me to call 911 because he was having a stroke.

So I have him sit on my couch while.my gf gets him some water and I call 911. The first person answers and I say a guy is having a stroke, they had to reroute me as I was on a cell. After rerouting and explaining a second time someone is having a stroke (I am a little rushed now and worked up with a sense of urgency)...then a thought comes into my head. I ask the guy if he has ever had a stroke before and he says no. I then calm down and start talking to him more calmly and the ambulance is on its way, etc.

They come, they get him and he has to leave his car in my driveway for the night...so I give him my cell and tell him that is fine, etc.

The next day he calls me to get his car because he is leaving the hospital and doesn't even remember how he got to my house - he just got off the highway and I was the first house he saw. I tell him how to get back and ask him if they figured out what it was.

He said he was very embarrassed but he had been unemployed for a few months and had driven an hour that night to stay overnight as he had a job interview the next day. It was an anxiety attack.

The guy had the entire side of his body go numb, couldn't raise his arms and had to bang his shoulder into my front door to knock.

This honestly may not apply to you and you seem very aware of our potential to "trick" ourselves, but it is pretty amazing and I guess it wouldnt be much of a trick at all if we knew it was in our heads.
 
Crazy story! I don’t doubt that some of what I’m experiencing is in my head, but I’m not sure about all of it. I’m becoming more open to the idea though too. I’m open to anything that’ll make this go away.

Regarding ZMA, I’ve read some stuff recently that aspartate can be toxic. Any thoughts on that?
 
GreenMachineX said:
Crazy story! I don’t doubt that some of what I’m experiencing is in my head, but I’m not sure about all of it. I’m becoming more open to the idea though too. I’m open to anything that’ll make this go away.

Regarding ZMA, I’ve read some stuff recently that aspartate can be toxic. Any thoughts on that?
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I use it all the time and don't know of any issues. I honestly think the "ZMA" formula can be a little overblown. Magnesium itself provides the benefits. Zing Glycinate is cheap enough too and you could get a 3 month supply for like 20 bucks. I personally use Gut Health before bed also, so I've been thinking of just getting the Mag Glycinate and taking it with Gut Health which has Zinc in it anyway.

It sucks that it won't seem to go away for you. I will share another, probably uninteresting, story about myself.

When I was a teenager I LIVED for playing the guitar. I walked around my house with it around my shoulders 24/7. I practically slept with it. Thing was, I wish I knew how to actually learn and practice at that time because I would have been much better, but I was just wasting time. And when I played in school bands, bands with friends, etc. - there was always this sense of competition about it. Like was I as good as the other guitarist? Could I amaze everyone? It's funny but it kind of, without my realizing it, took all the fun out of playing. I was playing for everyone else and stopped playing because I liked playing. It wasn't about what I wanted to do anymore, it was about what I thought other people thought I should be doing.

At any rate, I got through college and played less and less until I was in the real world. Then I stopped playing entirely. After about 10 years I went and grabbed my guitar and would pick it up and try to play - but I just sucked. I couldn't do anything anymore. So, in disappointment I would put the guitar away and it would sit for a while...until I came back maybe 6 months or a year later and did the same thing - played for 10 minutes and got disappointed and gave up.

Then one day, I decided - I used to love playing. I don't care if I am good or not anymore. No one has to hear me. I decided to hang my guitar on the wall in my home office, where I spend a lot of time making phone calls and working on the computer, etc. And it was right there where I could grab it all the time. Sometimes I would need a 5 minute break from making calls or need time to think about a business strategy, etc. and I would just pick it up and play.

After a few months of just having it around again and not putting pressure on it, I actually started getting my fingers working again. I could kind of sort of play. Over the last couple years I've gained a lot back. And I haven't even tried. It's just been in my down time. And rather than being a competition or something else to stress about, it actually has become the therapy.

Sometimes, you just gotta have 5 minute breaks where you do something, just for yourself.

Not saying this even pertains to this situation, because frankly I don't know you except on here and I barely see the situation - but regardless, this is a lesson I've learned over the past couple years that I think has had a profound impact on me. It's one of those small habits that had a bigger impact than I ever imagined.
 
Couple things:
I do nothing for myself at the moment, or at least not with any consistency, so I hear you on that.

Regarding the other minerals, I have magnesium glycinate which I just tested 100mg and felt pretty relaxed with, so I’ll continue that. I ordered zinc picolinate to add to my multi which will give me 25mg total. Also ordered a new probiotic that only has histamine-lowering (or neutral) strains. I’m pretty sure the couple years with GutHealth made my histamine intolerance worse and resulted in the near asthma attack/bronchospasm.

Also, feeling infinitely better today with my new protocol. Completely off the bisoprolol as well (2nd day) and BP was about the same it’s been (130s/70s after intentionally relaxing). Apparently good sources and doses of the B’s and fish oil are necessary for me. Also using theanine and taurine around the clock which both help either methylation or histamine control.
 
Still alive! So, my breathing issues/lungs becoming stiff I believe is from stopping digestive enzymes which I’ve been using for 6 months, in other words reflux causing laryngospasm. I’m going to get more digestive enzymes for now to test it out, then figure out a way to come off then again at a later time.

I’ve also figured out I need a specific amount of b6, methylfolate and mb12. Too much of the latter 2 and not enough b6 and histamine goes crazy. I’m also using chamomile tea twice daily, theanine, taurine, and I’ve added in Relora also for antihistamine action.

Blood pressure is now 130/80 or so most of the time.

Still waking in the middle of the night periodically and having trouble going back to sleep, but markedly improved since last week.

I think magnesium glycinate gives me a headache, so I’m switching to magnesium citrate to try out.

Doctor appointment to go over Lyme test, saliva adrenal function and sensitive e2 tests is next week. I feel like this is really all coming together finally.
 
One thing I need to expand on: I’m pretty sure the digestive enzymes I was using (Now Super Enzymes) was causing the chest flutters after every meal. I’ve read that bromelain can do this to some people, so I went and bought a new enzyme blend that basically only had the “-ase’s” in it, but it was so expensive for what it was. Now’s was much cheaper, stronger and had more stuff in it. But they were all like that. I’m gonna have to shop around i guess if this one doesn’t work.
 
More updates:

I’ve since went back on the LEF multi which is the one I previously believed kept my e2 low for a year, and I’m pretty sure it’s crashed again. Night sweats, frequent waking/insomnia, zero libido, but I could be wrong. I’m going to buy an e2 sensitive test to confirm and also switch to Thorne’s Basic Nutrients 3 at just enough for 3mg p5p, 300mcg methylfolate, and 150mcg Methyl-b12.

My other supplements now are:
Chamomile tea twice a day
450mg magnesium
15mg zinc picolinate
6g ascorbic acid
5000iu vitamin D
200mg ubiquinol
Digestive Enzymes
Bifidobacterium-only probiotics
5g taurine
600mg theanine
300mcg-900mcg melatonin

The LEF multi has 37.5mg b6/p5p, 200mcg methylfolate, and 150mcg Methyl-b12. I’m pretty sure it’s the dose of b6 in it that’s crashing my estrogen and just isn’t good for me. It could still be the apigenin in it, and with the chamomile tea I’ve been drinking could be making it worse, but the dose is so low. We’ll see. In a week, maintaining the chamomile tea for histamine control but switching the multi I’m hoping brings my e2 back up, but hoping the methylfolate and mb12 dose are close enough to not exacerbate histamine/methylation issues.

It seems the Maca was in fact controlling the low e2 symptoms those 8 months I was using it and the LEF multi. Now that I’m not using it, I’m having much worse low e2 symptoms.
 
I forgot to also mention that I got the flu this week, and vitamin C to bowel tolerance was absolutely amazing in my recovery. The worst days were 3-4 days ago, but I kept up the megadosing until today. Apparently I’m not over it completely yet because the past couple hours I’m starting to feel pretty bad fatigue/achy, so bumping the C back up. Only other symptoms are infrequent productive cough and a couple sneezes.
 
GreenMachineX said:
I forgot to also mention that I got the flu this week, and vitamin C to bowel tolerance was absolutely amazing in my recovery. The worst days were 3-4 days ago, but I kept up the megadosing until today. Apparently I’m not over it completely yet because the past couple hours I’m starting to feel pretty bad fatigue/achy, so bumping the C back up. Only other symptoms are infrequent productive cough and a couple sneezes.
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Glad to hear you are making some progress...and I agree on the Vit C. I tell everyone who gets sick to mega dose it, and to talk 4-6 g when not sick, but I know everyone thinks I am insane for believing it works.
 
HIT4ME said:
Glad to hear you are making some progress...and I agree on the Vit C. I tell everyone who gets sick to mega dose it, and to talk 4-6 g when not sick, but I know everyone thinks I am insane for believing it works.
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Same here. I’ve gotten some serious flack by even friends for it. Mainstream medicine has people turned into sheep.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Same here. I’ve gotten some serious flack by even friends for it. Mainstream medicine has people turned into sheep.
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Yeah, honestly I have been a fan of Vitamin C since 2000 and mega dosing seemed a little like quackery to me until about 2 years ago. Not sure how scientific my experiences are, but they have convinced me. If you get a bad cold, spending a day on the toilet beats spending 2 weeks in bed.
 
Did you guys see that new research indicates vitamin D3 is effective at protecting against colds and flu?
 
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