poopypants
Banned
thats good to know.... Epi is def a class one then... means its probably a great stack with most others... gotta love it.
any idea what phera is?
Careful with that AX! Pheraplex Log
- Thread starter celc5
- Start date
thats good to know.... Epi is def a class one then... means its probably a great stack with most others... gotta love it.
any idea what phera is?
EasyEJL
Never enough
Class I
Boldenone based phs - 1,4AD & Bold
Trenbolone based phs - Trenadrol & Trenaplex
Testosterone based phs - Methyl 1 Testosterone
Mepitiostane (Thioderon) based phs - Epithio & Clones (Havoc/Epistane/so on so forth)
Class II
Masteron (Dromostanolone) based phs - Superdrol & Clones
Oral Turinabol (Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone) based phs - Halodrol & Clones
Dianabol (methandrostenolone) based phs - M1,4ADD etc
Winstrol (stanozolol) based phs - Winztrol, Orastan-A, Furaguno, etc
Furazabol (miotolan) based phs - Furazadrol etc
Propadrol
Pheraplex & Clones"
it does explain a little too why some people report relatively crappy results with winztrol + halo, probably a winztrol + tren or epi would be a bit better.
Funny enough in different lists i've seen phera as either a class 1 or 2. so I dunno
poopypants
Banned
ya, ya know phera is just so tricky, having so many positives from both ends of the A:A spectrum and then still having different effects and sides from person to person. I actually ran phera and winz together and felt like it added some more harness... dont know though i think that stack worke more cause phera is so far on the anabolic end of things and winz is so far on the androgenic side of things.... dont know how competition for pathways was really effected but they seemed to work great together...
I almost wonder if phera has both the ability to attatch directly to the receptor site with a low affinity while still having an intrinsic effect as well, it would def explain why many feel it it could be on either list. It would also make it one killer compound for just about any stack!
celc5
Well-known member
Good stuff fellas. Lots to comment on.
I agree that I'm seeing very little, if any, androgenic effect from phera. I've also discussed this exact topic with some chemically inclined individuals on lean bulk who say phera does NOT bind strongly to androgen receptors.
Good point about halo being my first cycle. BigT reminded me that that formestane also played a large role in that cycle, and everyone knows what I think of form :head: :head: :head: ...so ya, I'm sure form skewed my halo results in a positive light.
I'm not familiar with the "new" dmt/halo combo clone. However, CEL h-drol was good stuff IMO
Regarding classing/stacking orals, Voodoo has an excellent post on the DA forum regarding this topic. A hand full of people REALLY like epi/propadrol, which is in line with your thinking poopy. Another one that stands out on Easy's list is halo/bold.
I agree that I'm seeing very little, if any, androgenic effect from phera. I've also discussed this exact topic with some chemically inclined individuals on lean bulk who say phera does NOT bind strongly to androgen receptors.
Good point about halo being my first cycle. BigT reminded me that that formestane also played a large role in that cycle, and everyone knows what I think of form :head: :head: :head: ...so ya, I'm sure form skewed my halo results in a positive light.
I'm not familiar with the "new" dmt/halo combo clone. However, CEL h-drol was good stuff IMO
Regarding classing/stacking orals, Voodoo has an excellent post on the DA forum regarding this topic. A hand full of people REALLY like epi/propadrol, which is in line with your thinking poopy. Another one that stands out on Easy's list is halo/bold.
poopypants
Banned
oh its not new... it was fairly small amounts of DMT at that but for some reason the original first release of halodrol was just getting insane reviews and then it went downhill from there to where we stand today with them being a crappy liquid gel with who even knows amount of AA and some other crap in a concoction... sad sad use of the name that was once an awsome supp.
pistonpump
Banned
awesome log i must say...again.
Yeah, your observations of phera seem pretty accurate to my own. The drive and focus in the gym has not been beat by anything else i have used thus far. The strength gains are def. noticable as well. I wonder if phera increases ATP drastically because the ability to do work is amplified. I like the compound alot but the only thing i dont like is how it aggrivates my nips...other than that its something i will always have love for and cycle.
Yeah, your observations of phera seem pretty accurate to my own. The drive and focus in the gym has not been beat by anything else i have used thus far. The strength gains are def. noticable as well. I wonder if phera increases ATP drastically because the ability to do work is amplified. I like the compound alot but the only thing i dont like is how it aggrivates my nips...other than that its something i will always have love for and cycle.
thundergod
Well-known member
celc5---In the past, people tend to think that I speak negatively of phera. Not so. I like it. I've done probably 4 or 5 cycles in the last 2 years. Always big on bulk and strength. But, I've also done 4 cycles of superdrol in the last 2 years, the last being a month ago coupled with TD trione. Much more anabolic in my opinion while being less androgenic. It is a lot drier than phera also. Celc, when you're finished with this phera cycle and have went through PCT and waited a little while longer, then I KNOW you would love a superdrol cycle. Go with CEL M-DROL's clone. It is cost effective and out of this world for strength!!
EctoPower
Active member
Speaking of BigT, where is that old fart? :gas:
Is he still mourning the crapfest that his Colts put on display in the playoffs? :lol:
Celc, have you considered throwing in a sleep aid to help with your erratic rest patterns?
poopypants
Banned
mmmm 1-carboxy mmmmm 
thundergod
Well-known member
Melatonin is even cheaper and improves the T:E ratio by lowering estrogen in human studies. Sleep aid with estrogen lowering activities? Can't beat this. I take 3 mg. everynight before bed. Sweet anabolic dreams!!!
celc5
Well-known member
Poopy, you're probably the biggest propenent for powerful/bulk carbox. that I've seen on the boards. I'm sure at some point, I'll have some questions on that one.
Ecto, regarding sleep aides, I picked up Abyss by Nimbus Nutrition. I have to say that I'm quite disappointed in it. It works about 1/3 the time. At first, i thought it was ineffective because of stims. But after 3 weeks, sometimes it works well even after stimming, sometimes it has no effect on days with no stims. Who knows? I also did not dose it on consecutive days, I've tried it on an empty stomach, and with food. Blah, I won't buy it again.
Thundergod, I disagree with the anti-estrogenic melatonin theory that I've been seeing lately. I've seen theories with pathways that say it is actually estrogenic. I'm not smart enough to argue either way so I'll just leave melatonin out, except for maybe once per week for a quick fix.
Poopy, I think I may have been a bit unclear. There IS a NEW dmt/halo combo product out right now, obviously in an attempt to clone the orginal H50 combo. I can't remember the exact profile but it was from an unfamiliar company. IMO, there are more intelligent stacks than phera/halo that are just as easy to get your hands on from companies where you can get plenty of feedback.
Piston, I think cycle history has a lot more to do with prolactin and estrogenic effect than being caused by phera itself. Although, it seems that phera frequently instigates resurfacing of those pesky superdrol repurcussions.
Thundergod, I have a bottle of AX superdrol that I'll be saving for a while. I don't really have any plans for a cycle for a good while unless I decide to run epi/propadrol for a recomp if I'm not satisfied with bodyfat by this summer. I'd love to be around 200 at 12% but I'll obviously play it by ear.
:rant: SOB!!! I just mixed up my TD form and got the shiit all over my hands. Ha Ha, I gotta get some ladies over here because this stuff kicks in after about 5 minutes :afro:
Ecto, regarding sleep aides, I picked up Abyss by Nimbus Nutrition. I have to say that I'm quite disappointed in it. It works about 1/3 the time. At first, i thought it was ineffective because of stims. But after 3 weeks, sometimes it works well even after stimming, sometimes it has no effect on days with no stims. Who knows? I also did not dose it on consecutive days, I've tried it on an empty stomach, and with food. Blah, I won't buy it again.
Thundergod, I disagree with the anti-estrogenic melatonin theory that I've been seeing lately. I've seen theories with pathways that say it is actually estrogenic. I'm not smart enough to argue either way so I'll just leave melatonin out, except for maybe once per week for a quick fix.
Poopy, I think I may have been a bit unclear. There IS a NEW dmt/halo combo product out right now, obviously in an attempt to clone the orginal H50 combo. I can't remember the exact profile but it was from an unfamiliar company. IMO, there are more intelligent stacks than phera/halo that are just as easy to get your hands on from companies where you can get plenty of feedback.
Piston, I think cycle history has a lot more to do with prolactin and estrogenic effect than being caused by phera itself. Although, it seems that phera frequently instigates resurfacing of those pesky superdrol repurcussions.
Thundergod, I have a bottle of AX superdrol that I'll be saving for a while. I don't really have any plans for a cycle for a good while unless I decide to run epi/propadrol for a recomp if I'm not satisfied with bodyfat by this summer. I'd love to be around 200 at 12% but I'll obviously play it by ear.
:rant: SOB!!! I just mixed up my TD form and got the shiit all over my hands. Ha Ha, I gotta get some ladies over here because this stuff kicks in after about 5 minutes :afro:
thundergod
Well-known member
Celc5--- I sympathize with you on the form spill. Last time I brewed some up on the stove top, I spilled some of it. I rubbed both hands in it and rubbbed it all over my chest anyway. I might have gotten 300 mg. or more, but what the hell! I got a rush out of it! Another thing, can you show me the studies on melatonin being estrogenic? i've seen the opposite myself. Plus, one more item. I know we both think that 90% or more of the test boosters on the market now are marketing schemes that don't work. But, have you considered using bulk testogen. I just ordered some. I've seen human studies from GENCOR showing a 98% increase in free test after only 8 weeks of 600 mg. per day. Once I'm on it for a few weeks, I'll give you a totally honest feedback on it. Thanks!!!
thundergod
Well-known member
Celc5--- OOPS!!! My bad. That was a typo. It's TESTOFEN. You can get it cheap in bulk at BN. 80 grams for $29.99. This should last almost 3 months at almost a gram a day. The studies from GENCOR only used 600 mg. per day. If a gram a day doesn't yeild anything, then I'll let you know not to waste your money on it. Have a great phera cycle!!
poopypants
Banned
ya well USP is coming out with its whack at trib and their special unique extraction process, guys that were taking it in the tester thread are only taking 1/2 tsp 2x ed and were feeling it by day 3.... sometimes guys will take GRAMS of this stuff and wont feel it for a month!!! cant wait to catch some blood on that one! Its coming out supposedly in bulk form at nutraplanet for a limited run... ill prob be picking up just enough to use through 1 or 2 pcts.
celc5
Well-known member
Day 24
Thundergod, I've seen mixed reviews on Testafen products. Keep us posted on your thoughts every now and then.
Poopy, to be honest I'm not one to get very excited about new products. I will sort of sit back listen to feedback though. My favorite trib product is Nutrex Vitrix. My favorite libido enhancer, believe it or not, is Goliath Ejaculoid which was recommended by theBigT.
Day 24
Strength continues to rise. Intensity is the gym is freaking awesome. I can't resist supersetting EVERYTHING. I think I've worked my whole body already this week and I'm only on Wednesday. I'll probably end up working the whole body twice this week.
Lethargy is getting annoying, but dang it's worth it with how good workouts are.
Sleep patterns are horrible. Abyss has not helped one bit, to be honest. I do not recommend Abyss whatsoever.
I might be noticing some very very mild testicular atrophy.
I just started TD formestane yesterday at 30mg morning, 30mg evening. I'll obviously slolwy ramp in hopes that it will keep gains dry (as they have been) and that it will keep libido going. I'd like to keep the dosage low until about 2 or 3 weeks into post cycle (ramping inverse to the serm).
Thundergod, I've seen mixed reviews on Testafen products. Keep us posted on your thoughts every now and then.
Poopy, to be honest I'm not one to get very excited about new products. I will sort of sit back listen to feedback though. My favorite trib product is Nutrex Vitrix. My favorite libido enhancer, believe it or not, is Goliath Ejaculoid which was recommended by theBigT.
Day 24
Strength continues to rise. Intensity is the gym is freaking awesome. I can't resist supersetting EVERYTHING. I think I've worked my whole body already this week and I'm only on Wednesday. I'll probably end up working the whole body twice this week.
Lethargy is getting annoying, but dang it's worth it with how good workouts are.
Sleep patterns are horrible. Abyss has not helped one bit, to be honest. I do not recommend Abyss whatsoever.
I might be noticing some very very mild testicular atrophy.
I just started TD formestane yesterday at 30mg morning, 30mg evening. I'll obviously slolwy ramp in hopes that it will keep gains dry (as they have been) and that it will keep libido going. I'd like to keep the dosage low until about 2 or 3 weeks into post cycle (ramping inverse to the serm).
pistonpump
Banned
well after this week id take like 3 days completely off from the gym, youre gonna need the rest. After the rest im sure youll have gained alot more weight.
celc5
Well-known member
You know, I really sat back and thought about this advice. I decided to take yesterday off. Today and tomorrow's routine need to be intelligent, rather than continuing like the Tazmanian devil. PP, that's mature advice from a young man :cheers:
Looking back, one of the best bulking routines I've ever had was a 3 day split. With my recomp goals, I need to be mindful of keeping a happy medium.
celc5
Well-known member
Day 26
Easy, I have a pre-planned HST routine that I'm going to run for post cycle. Overall volume will be a bit lower. But, I'm hoping the perpetual pump from HST style will keep the motivation churning.
Day 26
Each time I've kept a log, there has been a gem of advice that makes the entire process worth while. Pistonpump's recommendation to slow things down in the gym may have saved a cycle that, in the back of my mind, was getting stagnant.
I took Wednesday off and only did about 8 or 10 working sets during the Thursday and Friday workouts. I can see an increased fullness in my chest, lats, and shoulders since cooling down my marathon sessions. Strength has continued to climb, even with the TUT considerations. I've also noticed an improved sense of well-being since backing off. I plan to take the entire weekend off in preparation for ALL OUT WAR for the 5th and final week of this cycle.
On a side note, male performance was through the roof last night. To be honest, I was mentally prepared to give the ladies a rest as this cycle wound down. But the resiliance of my boys, with the help of some formestane of course, has kept me at rock star status :head:
Easy, I have a pre-planned HST routine that I'm going to run for post cycle. Overall volume will be a bit lower. But, I'm hoping the perpetual pump from HST style will keep the motivation churning.
Day 26
Each time I've kept a log, there has been a gem of advice that makes the entire process worth while. Pistonpump's recommendation to slow things down in the gym may have saved a cycle that, in the back of my mind, was getting stagnant.
I took Wednesday off and only did about 8 or 10 working sets during the Thursday and Friday workouts. I can see an increased fullness in my chest, lats, and shoulders since cooling down my marathon sessions. Strength has continued to climb, even with the TUT considerations. I've also noticed an improved sense of well-being since backing off. I plan to take the entire weekend off in preparation for ALL OUT WAR for the 5th and final week of this cycle.
On a side note, male performance was through the roof last night. To be honest, I was mentally prepared to give the ladies a rest as this cycle wound down. But the resiliance of my boys, with the help of some formestane of course, has kept me at rock star status :head:
bassgod272
Well-known member
Kick some MAJOR a$$ during the 5th week man! Are you continuing to gain or should someone keep PP down to 4 weeks? Good to hear about the form and "male performance" lol. Form is the shiz.
poopypants
Banned
i dont know how hes doing, but i remember i gained all the wa till the last day and was sad when i had to finish.... i know i could have kept it up but dont know what that ewould ahve done to my body (although i felt great and didnt have any sides other then bacne and slight lethargy) and didnt have the funds to overnight another bottle to keep it going.... i still cant wait to run it again almost 3 years later now.
bassgod272
Well-known member
good to hear man. i have 2 bottles
BUT i'm not gonna push it. i'll stick to 4-5 weeks.zachconley123
New member
what time of the day were u taking pheraplex on your 1st and 2nd week???
celc5
Well-known member
Bassgod, strength gains are out of this world and are continuing throughout week 4. Body comp gains seem to have reached a plateau around day 20 or so. If strength was my goal, I'd run phera a good 5 weeks. If I were to recomp with phera again, I would have bridged it with epi or super to try to squeeze out a few more pounds of lean mass before any significant suppression occured. I will re-assess body comp tomorrow morning to see if these thoughts are justified by the skinfolds and scale.
Also bassgod, if you are honest to goodness at a plateau body comp wise, I'd recommend anticipating getting the dosage up pretty high if you want to drastic gains in lean mass. I wish I had a third bottle because I would have pushed 50mg this week for sure, and I'm thinking you have at least 30 or 40 pounds on me. If strength is your goal, gains will come at 30mg throughout IMO.
Zach, here was my dosing schedule:
Week 1:
8am 10mg PP
noon support supps
4pm 10 PP
8pm support
midnight support
week 2:
same as wk 1 but first PP dose was 20mg
week 3 and 4:
phera dosed 20mg each time.
I plan to keep the same dosing schedule for week 5 until I run out around day 35 or so.
Also bassgod, if you are honest to goodness at a plateau body comp wise, I'd recommend anticipating getting the dosage up pretty high if you want to drastic gains in lean mass. I wish I had a third bottle because I would have pushed 50mg this week for sure, and I'm thinking you have at least 30 or 40 pounds on me. If strength is your goal, gains will come at 30mg throughout IMO.
Zach, here was my dosing schedule:
Week 1:
8am 10mg PP
noon support supps
4pm 10 PP
8pm support
midnight support
week 2:
same as wk 1 but first PP dose was 20mg
week 3 and 4:
phera dosed 20mg each time.
I plan to keep the same dosing schedule for week 5 until I run out around day 35 or so.
bassgod272
Well-known member
Thanks for the info celc. My goals for my next cycle are strength and mass. I'm not using injects, only orals, so i never anticipate any crazy drastic changes. Do you think I should run super instead, considering my goals? I have 2 bottles h-drol, 1 m-drol, 2 p-plex, and 1 epidrol. With these as options, what would you use and how would you dose to best meet my goals? I've never bridged anything before, so if you'd recommend bridging anything, i'd need a little help in that area. If you suggest just a straight run of 1 product, then i'm good to go. I have a cycle on paper for each of these already. I have never ran PP or super, but from what i've read, these 2 would be the best choices for mass and strength. Thanks in advance.
poopypants
Banned
IMO PP gave me more gains in both departments then SD and WAAAAY less sides. No insane back pumps no agression and no gyno, instead mild acne and a constent feeling of well being. I did stack it with a reg dose of prostan back then wich kept the gains dry and hard and I kept gaining mass through week 4..... dunno why celcs have leveled off week 3, just not as lucky I guess or maybe a diet issue.... have you been increasing your cals as youve gained Celc? also what were your goals period? mass only or recomp with as much trade off possible?
thundergod
Well-known member
I have done a PP and super bridge before, and it is outta sight! Do the phera-plex first 3 weeks at 30 mg. per day in 3 divided 10 mg. doses. On week 4 drop the phera to 10 mg. per day, but include 20 mg. of superdrol in 2 divided doses of 10 mg. each. On weeks 5-8, go with 30 mg. of superdrol in 3 divided doses of 10 mg. each. The super after the phera is a beauty after the beast kinda thing! You'll get sorta wet mass and great strength from the phera, then you'll dry out a little on the superdrol with even greater strength. Both of these compounds have sides issues (they ARE steroids) but take your supports and you'll be fine. AND STRONG!! Odin bless you!!
celc5
Well-known member
Bassgod, my only caution with pure mass gains on phera is that I seem to be very carb sensitive. I have not been able to increase carbs on this cycle because, when I do, things seem to get sloppy. The opposite was true while running halo as I could eat whatever I wanted and bodyfat would continue to peel off. Strength gains are only slighlty better with phera than they were with halo. Sides are about even with all things considered, and very low for both.
That leads into poopy's qeustion concerning calories. Off cycle, I take in about 275/300/60. ON cycle I started around 325/300/70... that shifted to 350/275/70 over the past 2 or 3 weeks once I saw the carb sensitivity. My goals are recomp and fat gain is unacceptable. I have slightly upped overall cals in the last 3-4 days as the formestane always helps keep gains clean for me.
Thundergod, I agree that your bridge suggestion the best for strength and mass. I'm still an infant in terms of ph experience and still prefer a bit less sides than super has to offer. In which case, if I had this to do again, my epi bottle would be about 1/2 empty right now :head:
That leads into poopy's qeustion concerning calories. Off cycle, I take in about 275/300/60. ON cycle I started around 325/300/70... that shifted to 350/275/70 over the past 2 or 3 weeks once I saw the carb sensitivity. My goals are recomp and fat gain is unacceptable. I have slightly upped overall cals in the last 3-4 days as the formestane always helps keep gains clean for me.
Thundergod, I agree that your bridge suggestion the best for strength and mass. I'm still an infant in terms of ph experience and still prefer a bit less sides than super has to offer. In which case, if I had this to do again, my epi bottle would be about 1/2 empty right now :head:
bassgod272
Well-known member
Thanks thundergod. I dunno about 30mg super though. My planned super 3 week cycle was 10/20/20. Super is strong shiz and i DO have ALL my support supps, BUT i still am leary of 30mg lol. Do you think 20mg would suffice for the super dosage? Like i said, i've never ran either compound before, so i'm pretty sure my body will respond very well even with a little lower dosage.
hman85
Well-known member
hell yeah man 20 is more than enough. People gain good weight on a first run at 10mgs for 3 weeks. keep it at 20 mgs and don't go to 30 on your first experience with it.
celc5
Well-known member
I'm not sure of all your sizes, but it looks to me that thundergod is pretty much a FREAKIN TANK around 240ish, I'm guessing? I can see why he'd need 30mg with the super
bassgod, IMO start off with halo, phera, or furazadrol for your first cycle. Have enough to increase the dosage if you wish without making things too complicated. Thundergod and I will vouch for TD formestane and/or trione so it might be something nice to stack with one of those aforementioned compounds.
This way, you have minimal repurcussions if you happen to make a newbie mistake. In the mean time, you start getting a feel for how you respond and still have the superdrol in your arsenal for your second or third cycle.
celc5
Well-known member
Day 29
Week 4 Summary
On the positive side of things, strength continues to climb impressively. Phera IS the way to go for strength gains accompanied by minimal sides. I had a marathon workout today, which was one of the best I've ever had. I threw around 120 pound dumbells on rows and shrugs with no sign of breaking form for a solid 12 to 15 reps. That particular weight is something that I regularly handle for 8-10 reps on those lifts.
I did cramp a bit today in the lats and rotator cuff, but I blame myself for not stretching enough between sets.
Libido is a bit inconsistent, but leaps and bounds ahead of where I expected to be at this point in the cycle. After "activity" on Thursday, it took me a bit longer than usual to regain that primal drive again. On Saturday, I had another hook up. I thought my performance was lacking but I'd NEVER admit that to a female. She however volunteered to say that I tore her up... I'm not gonna argue
Bacne is mild, not much of an issue. Shedding has actually subsided, but I'm not sure what that means, if anything. I have some very mild testicular atrophy but nothin to be alarmed about IMO.
The biggest disappointment at the moment is that lean mass gains seem to have slowed. I wish I could turn back the clock about 1 week and phase in epi around 40 or 50mgs for 3 weeks. Oh well, live and learn... I'm gonna wreck some shiit in the gym this week and FORCE another effin pound of lean mass NO CHOICE!!! :head:
The diet is in check. 350g pro/day and 400g about 2 or 3 times per week when I get in an extra meal. Carbs are sitting around 250 or 275 and varies just slightly from day to day.
Week 4 Summary
On the positive side of things, strength continues to climb impressively. Phera IS the way to go for strength gains accompanied by minimal sides. I had a marathon workout today, which was one of the best I've ever had. I threw around 120 pound dumbells on rows and shrugs with no sign of breaking form for a solid 12 to 15 reps. That particular weight is something that I regularly handle for 8-10 reps on those lifts.
I did cramp a bit today in the lats and rotator cuff, but I blame myself for not stretching enough between sets.
Libido is a bit inconsistent, but leaps and bounds ahead of where I expected to be at this point in the cycle. After "activity" on Thursday, it took me a bit longer than usual to regain that primal drive again. On Saturday, I had another hook up. I thought my performance was lacking but I'd NEVER admit that to a female. She however volunteered to say that I tore her up... I'm not gonna argue
Bacne is mild, not much of an issue. Shedding has actually subsided, but I'm not sure what that means, if anything. I have some very mild testicular atrophy but nothin to be alarmed about IMO.
The biggest disappointment at the moment is that lean mass gains seem to have slowed. I wish I could turn back the clock about 1 week and phase in epi around 40 or 50mgs for 3 weeks. Oh well, live and learn... I'm gonna wreck some shiit in the gym this week and FORCE another effin pound of lean mass NO CHOICE!!! :head:
The diet is in check. 350g pro/day and 400g about 2 or 3 times per week when I get in an extra meal. Carbs are sitting around 250 or 275 and varies just slightly from day to day.
NasD
Member
celc, I know like me, you research a LOT before running anything. in my research I was scared away from PP because of the reported possibilities of increased heart weight. after following some recent PP logs, I'm taking a second look at PP. what conclusion did you draw from your research regarding this particular side?
poopypants
Banned
This one is funny to me, I hadnt heard about this till just recently and I have been here since the start of PP, one of the first to run it. In all honesty where in the hell did the basis for this side come from? did ONE guy have a heart problem that coincided with his cycle and now scared everyone? I truely think this side is a bogus myth as I had no increased BP and no accelerate heart rates or murmering during some heavy lift workouts.... M-TRN and epi on the other hand I could feel a small strain in my chest sometimes wich leads me to belive they may have greatly increased BP and heart rate but never felt anything like that on PP.... again Id like to know where these rumors were based from and then see some proof... and PA said so will just convince me its even moer bogus.
thundergod
Well-known member
Hey celc5-- Thundergod's around 270 lbs. right now! But I've trained heavy and hard for about 20 years. I'm also 6'3" and 43 years old. Yeah, Bullgod you probably would do fine on 20 mgs. of the superdrol. It's strong stuff!And lsiten to celc's advice on the transdermal form and trione combo.Great stuff. Actually, all of celc's advice I've seen in the past is very sound! ODIN BLESS YOU ALL!!!
celc5
Well-known member
Thunder, holy crap, if I would have known you were 6'3", I probably would have guessed about 260 or 270! Dude I bet you run out of 45's in the gym all the time :lol:
Poopy, my resting BP has very very slowly went up while on phera. I'm talking like 2-3mm systolic per week. It's nothing that even makes me flinch and I'm sure it will drop back down to normal in similar fashion.
Nas, my opinion on this matter is the same as it is on just about all of the risks associated with steroids. Problems occur when the steroid is abused in terms of dosage, length of cycle, frequency of cycles, and ignorance/blatant disregard for protective measures. My opinion is that this can apply to gyno, liver toxicity, cholesterol, and cardiovascular effect. If you shower in shiit, you're not gonna come out squeaky clean
Poopy, my resting BP has very very slowly went up while on phera. I'm talking like 2-3mm systolic per week. It's nothing that even makes me flinch and I'm sure it will drop back down to normal in similar fashion.
Nas, my opinion on this matter is the same as it is on just about all of the risks associated with steroids. Problems occur when the steroid is abused in terms of dosage, length of cycle, frequency of cycles, and ignorance/blatant disregard for protective measures. My opinion is that this can apply to gyno, liver toxicity, cholesterol, and cardiovascular effect. If you shower in shiit, you're not gonna come out squeaky clean
poopypants
Banned
LMAO I loved this line.
thundergod
Well-known member
celc5
Well-known member
...unless your name is poopy. Then you probably will still smell the same :trout:
Btw thundergod, i'm not done yet. I have enough to keep dosage at 40mg and stretch it to 35 days. Week 5 is gonna be AWESOME :head:
pistonpump
Banned
see the thing with phera and heart enlargement is something ive seen medical proof on. I dont care to dig it up right now (sorry) but this only proves that phera, which is actually (Madol or DMT if im not mistaken), is one of the legally marketed steroids that actually have clinical studies on. Its been around for a while, the only reason you dont hear all kinds of sh1t on superdrol etc is because nobody has done clinical studies!! imo.
id imagine just about if not all steroids will enlarge the heart, which is a muscle anyway.
id imagine just about if not all steroids will enlarge the heart, which is a muscle anyway.
celc5
Well-known member
my personal opinion is also that you'd have to do clinical studies on each individual superdrol clone as well. The subjective descriptions on the logs don't match up IMO.
Piston, that's a good point that you make regarding the studies. It can certainly pertain to serm usage as well. nolva's the guinea pig so it has all the science to say how good and bad it is. Less research to say good and bad things about the others, especially ralox and torem
The thread on AM where phera was discussed was called something to the effect of "Phera and the heart"
bassgod272
Well-known member
This will be my 2nd cycle. My first was Epistane and I LOVED IT! I just want pure mass and strength for the next one. F*** furaz, lol. H-Drol will be used later down the road when i'm looking to cut and gain strength at the same time. Dunno what i wil do with the epidrol yet, but the PP and m-drol are what i was going to use for my next run. I have a cycle all planned out for each including pre-load, on cycle, and post cycle therapy. I have all the support supps. Now i am just not sure if I should use the PP or m-drol. Or bridge the 2 like mentioned above? What do you guys suggest? I was thinking of getting some methyl xt soon also, so with that added in, bring on some suggestions for a sick strength/mass cycle! Thanks!
poopypants
Banned
I think bridging is a GREAT idea if done correctly and thndergod had a great set up for it, I did basically the same thing (although i had stacked prostan through the phera section as well, mean ass old school AX stack :twisted
and it really solidified my gains, didnt really gain more then 3 lbs with the superdrol after but I had already gained 17 or so with phera alone and It jsut made those gains rock hard and I kept 16 of 20 after post cycle therapy.... Its a beatuiful stack if done with all the correct ancilleries and the understanding if youstart to feel like crap you MUST abort and go into post cycle therapy and mega dose liver supps.
thundergod
Well-known member
I wanna say that I have spoken a little negatively on phera earlier in this thread I think. Phera was NOT to blame. I was! I had a bad cycle because of lack of research and knowledge of the compound first. I think this happens to alot of people, especially their first cycle. I wasn't even reading forums or anything. I was old school. Whey protein, fish oil, multi-vitamins and creatine. I saw an ad for phera that sounded great. I ordered and took it without knowing of on cycle supports and post-cycle therapy. Bad mistake. I got strong. And bloated, and high blood pressure, and screwed up blood lipids. My estrogen skyrocketed. This was ALL my mistake. Taken the right way(which I do now) it's a great supplement to your standard supports. Everybody---Read more!! ODIN BLESS!!!
bassgod272
Well-known member
I think bridging is a GREAT idea if done correctly and thndergod had a great set up for it, I did basically the same thing (although i had stacked prostan through the phera section as well, mean ass old school AX stack :twisted
I can't seem to find prostan anymore, are thereany clones available still? I know AX stopped producing it
Or maybe i could bridge the phera with trenadrol? Or were you saying you stacked super, phera, AND prostan? If that's the case, i'd rather just stick with 2 compounds at the most.
EasyEJL
Never enough
I can't seem to find prostan anymore, are thereany clones available still? I know AX stopped producing it
I have piles of it. Winztrol by Juggernaut is the same compound as well.
poopypants
Banned
I can't seem to find prostan anymore, are thereany clones available still? I know AX stopped producing it
here this is how i ran it, prostan and phera concurrently then bridged them to superdrol to solidify gains.
Phera(1-4) 10/20/30/20
Prostan(1-4)50/75/75/100
superdrol(4-6)10/30/30
I like thundergods set up more though and would have run it that way but still added prostan the first 4 weeks if i had to do it over.
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poopypants
Banned
actually I lied... or just remember innacurately and went back and dug up my old cycle i ran, here it is.
so I would honestly not run this this way again, the brigde was too concentrated and i remember just feeling bleh by the end and wanting to finish.... althogh the second i stopped SD i felt great again and managed to kee practically all my gains.
I would go easier on the bridge since Im fairly certain it wouldnt change the outcome very much at all and be easier on my liver and body.
so I would honestly not run this this way again, the brigde was too concentrated and i remember just feeling bleh by the end and wanting to finish.... althogh the second i stopped SD i felt great again and managed to kee practically all my gains.
I would go easier on the bridge since Im fairly certain it wouldnt change the outcome very much at all and be easier on my liver and body.