Cardarine

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What are your thoughts on Cardarine? Some people say it is carcinogenic.
 

Jeremyk1

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First of all, it’s not a supplement, it’s a drug. So this should probably go to the anabolics section. The cancer thing is, in my opinion, way overblown. I don’t remember all the details now, but as I recall, it didn’t cause cancer, but it did seem to make existing tumors grow more. You also need to remember it was only in mice and rats, with fairly large doses, for a fairly long time. If you don’t overdo it on dose or time, shouldn’t be any real issues. Another concern I had, is there’s supposed 2 studies investigating the cancer growth effects, but I spent about an hour and I couldn’t find either study. I’m not even sure they were reviewed and published. Personally, I’m pretty convinced the stuff is both safe and actually healthy.
 

BBiceps

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Idk,Cardarine seems a little too good to be true, that the product even have cancer connected to it is enough for me to stay away
 

jim2509

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People have been taking this stuff for years and I cant recall any published links to reports of people getting Cancer?
Also WADA got Glaxo Smith Kline who developed it, to release a statement because of sportsmen/women taking it and all GSK would say that it hadn't been researched at high doses and over a lengthy time in humans. NOWHERE in the statement did GSK say it 'Could or Would' cause Cancer in the joint WADA press release. Now if it DID don't you think they might have said so, baring in mind the purpose was to put Sportsmen and Women off from taking it?

Make of that what you will.
 
Aleksandar37

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People have been taking this stuff for years and I cant recall any published links to reports of people getting Cancer?
Also WADA got Glaxo Smith Kline who developed it, to release a statement because of sportsmen/women taking it and all GSK would say that it hadn't been researched at high doses and over a lengthy time in humans. NOWHERE in the statement did GSK say it 'Could or Would' cause Cancer in the joint WADA press release. Now if it DID don't you think they might have said so, baring in mind the purpose was to put Sportsmen and Women off from taking it?

Make of that what you will.
GSK isn't going to say one way or the other because they don't have the data and the drug didn't make it to human trials. This review cites the reasons why they didn't go further than animal models, "Despite these promising early results, the further investigation and development of GW501516 was discontinued after observations in animal studies of its association with the rapid induction of cancers in several organs (liver, stomach, tongue, skin, bladder, ovaries, womb and testes)."
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1517/14656566.2014.876992?journalCode=ieop20

The pathway that the agonist works on may or may not cause cancer as the data isn't clear yet, so use at your own risk.
 
Aleksandar37

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Idk,Cardarine seems a little too good to be true, that the product even have cancer connected to it is enough for me to stay away
yep. Everything has a cost, but there seems to be many more options out there and too many what ifs with this one.
 

patrick25

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In development Glaxo has a compound called GW0742 same benefit without showing cancer so who knows how long before we can get our hands on it.
 
Aleksandar37

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In development Glaxo has a compound called GW0742 same benefit without showing cancer so who knows how long before we can get our hands on it.
Are you sure they're still looking at that? I'm not seeing anything recent on them studying it. It also looks like it's available from several suppliers for research (actual research purposes).
 

patrick25

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Are you sure they're still looking at that? I'm not seeing anything recent on them studying it. It also looks like it's available from several suppliers for research (actual research purposes).
Good catch rumor was a few months away as a research only use wink wink. But to get our actual hands on it could be awhile. Also sr9009 is marketed as being similar to gw50156 but has a short half life making it prohibitively expensive. So if this requires multiple doses forget it.
 

patrick25

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Hey op I'm using this right now and I can tell you from my experience I'm into my second week it's kicked in and endurance is way up also my muscles feel more pumped and tight if that makes sense 10 mg. I will run it 12 weeks on 1 month off.
 
Ricky10

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Speaking of other PPAR agonists, anyone tried GW-0742? It’s touted as being Cardarine 2.0.

I was searching for some reviews elsewhere for a bit and didn’t have much luck. People seem to be quite leary of it as it has less “research” available than Cardarine.

I came very close to buying some..
 
Ricky10

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Good catch rumor was a few months away as a research only use wink wink. But to get our actual hands on it could be awhile. Also sr9009 is marketed as being similar to gw50156 but has a short half life making it prohibitively expensive. So if this requires multiple doses forget it.
SR-9001 is the new REV-ERB agonist on the block, which I saw claims of a “proposed” 4 hr half life via oral supplementation. Interesting one there!
 
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patrick25

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The way I figure is if I get cancer from Cardarine in say 10 years the will have a sarm for that haha.
 
TheVenom

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Speaking of other PPAR agonists, anyone tried GW-0742? It’s touted as being Cardarine 2.0.

I was searching for some reviews elsewhere for a bit and didn’t have much luck. People seem to be quite leary of it as it has less “research” available than Cardarine.

I came very close to buying some..
The valuable research on GW is so scarce that its almost irrelevant. For human use, all "research" is anecdotal. The only way this could have happened is people taking a chance on a relatively unresearched compound.


Idk,Cardarine seems a little too good to be true, that the product even have cancer connected to it is enough for me to stay away
Ever drank soda?
 
Ricky10

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The valuable research on GW is so scarce that its almost irrelevant. For human use, all "research" is anecdotal. The only way this could have happened is people taking a chance on a relatively unresearched compound.
Oh, I completely agree
 
Aleksandar37

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The way I figure is if I get cancer from Cardarine in say 10 years the will have a sarm for that haha.
You're messing with cell growth and differentiation pathways. If (and it is an if) cardarine causes cancer in human, you'll be too far along by the time symptoms show up. More than likely a lot of these compounds won't cause cancer, but god help you if you develop a tumor while taking them.
 

jim2509

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You're messing with cell growth and differentiation pathways. If (and it is an if) cardarine causes cancer in human, you'll be too far along by the time symptoms show up. More than likely a lot of these compounds won't cause cancer, but god help you if you develop a tumor while taking them.
As I pointed out, Cardarine has been used for years and there is NO evidence it causes Cancer in humans. There is some research evidence it actually reduces the likelihood of Colon Cancer in humans. Also the EU has severe strict laws on carcinogens being sold for human consumption...Cardarine is legal.

I'm more concerned about pollution and air quality along with UVA damage than bloody Cardarine as they DO cause cancer.

God help you if you don't look whilst crossing the road as well.

Further a Phase IV human trial was carried out in Australia 2008 and NO adverse effects were noted.
 
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TheVenom

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Are you implying drinking soda has a direct cause in cancer? What data shows that?
Im implying they've been connected.
Its one straightforwardly worded google search away.
 
Aleksandar37

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As I pointed out, Cardarine has been used for years and there is NO evidence it causes Cancer in humans. There is some research evidence it actually reduces the likelihood of Colon Cancer in humans. Also the EU has severe strict laws on carcinogens being sold for human consumption...Cardarine is legal.

I'm more concerned about pollution and air quality along with UVA damage than bloody Cardarine as they DO cause cancer.

God help you if you don't look whilst crossing the road as well.

Further a Phase IV human trial was carried out in Australia 2008 and NO adverse effects were noted.
When did I say it causes cancer? I said it would make a bad situation worse if you developed a tumor from something else while using it.

As for that trial, they gave a dose of 2.5 mg for 6 weeks and you seem to be suggesting 10 mg for 12 weeks. Also, you can't say that there were no adverse effects because it wasn't measured. Adverse events was not an endpoint of this trial https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00841217
 
muscleupcrohn

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As I pointed out, Cardarine has been used for years and there is NO evidence it causes Cancer in humans. There is some research evidence it actually reduces the likelihood of Colon Cancer in humans. Also the EU has severe strict laws on carcinogens being sold for human consumption...Cardarine is legal.

I'm more concerned about pollution and air quality along with UVA damage than bloody Cardarine as they DO cause cancer.

God help you if you don't look whilst crossing the road as well.

Further a Phase IV human trial was carried out in Australia 2008 and NO adverse effects were noted.
Wait... I’m fairly sure Cardarine is not “legal” to be sold as a dietary supplement. Isn’t it a drug that was abandoned by GSK and Ligand Pharmaceuticals? I’m pretty sure anyone selling it is selling it “for research purposes only,” and not “for human consumption.” Or at least they shouldn’t be. It’s grey market at best really TBH. This is a weak argument on your part.

There’s no evidence it causes cancer in humans because of course there’s not. What, do you think once the rodent studies showed increased cancer growth they’d decide to run long-term human studies to see if they get the same results? Of course not. No ethics board would approve that.

Cardarine, at low doses for short term use, has performed favorably in human studies, but using higher doses and/or for longer durations is uncharted territory. The short term studies in no way prove or disprove it increases the rate of cancer growth. No one is suggesting it’s an incredibly potent carcinogen, which is what it’d have to be to show cancer growth in studies that only lasted a few weeks...

Furthermore, the risks noted in the rodent studies that lead to the drug being abandoned were increased cancer growth, not so much it causing cancer itself, but making cancer rodents developed anyway worse. So it seems entirely logical that running this drug with other drugs that themselves may increase the incidence of cancer, such as various AAS and other bodybuilding drugs, may not be the wisest idea, or is, at the least, a huge unknown.
 
muscleupcrohn

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Im implying they've been connected.
Its one straightforwardly worded google search away.
Anyone who tells someone to "just Google it" has a fundamental misunderstanding of what a burden of proof is, or who it rests with...
 
TheVenom

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Anyone who tells someone to "just Google it" has a fundamental misunderstanding of what a burden of proof is, or who it rests with...
I'm not concerned with presenting a case. I didn't intend on this conversation becoming about sodas. My point was that if something being loosely to associated with cancer scares someone, their life is going to be profoundly limited by that. Whether someone is compelled to look into what i say is of absolutely zero concern to me.
 
Aleksandar37

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I'm not concerned with presenting a case. I didn't intend on this conversation becoming about sodas. My point was that if something being loosely to associated with cancer scares someone, their life is going to be profoundly limited by that. Whether someone is compelled to look into what i say is of absolutely zero concern to me.
I get what you're saying and also don't want to derail the conversation into soda, especially since I call it pop. However, there is a difference between a nuclear receptor agonist involved in direct modulation of physiological processes vs sodas can cause obesity and obesity may lead to an environment conducive to cancer.
 
muscleupcrohn

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I'm not concerned with presenting a case. I didn't intend on this conversation becoming about sodas. My point was that if something being loosely to associated with cancer scares someone, their life is going to be profoundly limited by that. Whether someone is compelled to look into what i say is of absolutely zero concern to me.
And I'm telling you that it's ignorant or disingenuous to compare Cardarine to soda in relation to cancer growth. You can have your pick which of the two you'd prefer to be considered...
 

jim2509

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When did I say it causes cancer? I said it would make a bad situation worse if you developed a tumor from something else while using it.

As for that trial, they gave a dose of 2.5 mg for 6 weeks and you seem to be suggesting 10 mg for 12 weeks. Also, you can't say that there were no adverse effects because it wasn't measured. Adverse events was not an endpoint of this trial https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00841217
You have made up the 12 weeks as I said no such thing and I wouldn't suggest to anybody to run Cardarine either for 12 weeks.

The fact is there is NO evidence it causes Cancer in humans.

Personally I would use Sr9009 over Cardarine but its each to their own and Cardarine has its place until research says otherwise.
 
Aleksandar37

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You have made up the 12 weeks as I said no such thing and I wouldn't suggest to anybody to run Cardarine either for 12 weeks.

The fact is there is NO evidence it causes Cancer in humans.

Personally I would use Sr9009 over Cardarine but its each to their own and Cardarine has its place until research says otherwise.
My mistake on the first part as I confused you with patrick25 as you both have the same avatar. And yet again, where did I say it did, but that's not how science works. You have to actually perform a human trial that looks at use and test for cancer, including follow-up data. I can say unicorns also don't cause cancer because there is no evidence of it.
 
muscleupcrohn

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You have made up the 12 weeks as I said no such thing and I wouldn't suggest to anybody to run Cardarine either for 12 weeks.

The fact is there is NO evidence it causes Cancer in humans.

Personally I would use Sr9009 over Cardarine but its each to their own and Cardarine has its place until research says otherwise.
No one is suggesting it CAUSES cancer in humans, "only" that it may increase the growth/development of existing cancers. Futhermore, what human evidence do you want? There are no human studies more than a few weeks in duration; of course short-term studies aren't going to show cancer growth. It'd have to be an incredibly potent carcinogen if it did...
 
TheVenom

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And I'm telling you that it's ignorant or disingenuous to compare Cardarine to soda in relation to cancer growth. You can have your pick which of the two you'd prefer to be considered...
That sounds an awful lot like an opinion.
 
Ricky10

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Well, here we go again with yet another Cardarine/cancer tussle 😁

The best one I have seen involved @Old Witch, and @muscleupcrohn. It’s an entertaining and informative read as both members presented their point of view in greater detail than we usually see on this topic.

 
muscleupcrohn

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Well, here we go again with yet another Cardarine/cancer tussle 😁

The best one I have seen involved @Old Witch, and @muscleupcrohn. It’s an entertaining and informative read as both members presented their point of view in greater detail than we usually see on this topic.

Haha, good times! I don't know if that thread linked it, but here's a good write-up on the reserach on Cadarine that discusses a ton of studies:

https://www.tga.gov.au/book-page/12-cardarine
 
The Express 42

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I’ve tried cardarine a couple times and honestly never noticed much from it. I have had substantially better results with Cordyceps 10:1 when it comes to endurance. Just my two cents
 
Iwilleattuna

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Imo, anything synthetic will have some sort of toxicity within the body. Cardarine is no exception. It alters our chemistry in a substantial way in order to work, so with benefits will come side effects . No one really reports any major side effects with this so it seems as cancer would be something that would develop over time. This May sound dumb but cancer scares me less than somewhat acute side effects such as cardiovascular issues or bp
 
Iwilleattuna

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I’ve tried cardarine a couple times and honestly never noticed much from it. I have had substantially better results with Cordyceps 10:1 when it comes to endurance. Just my two cents
Shrooms before pharmaceuticals 😂. Honestly, I’ve been wanting to try these. Also, lions mane seems awesome
 

jim2509

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Well, here we go again with yet another Cardarine/cancer tussle 😁

The best one I have seen involved @Old Witch, and @muscleupcrohn. It’s an entertaining and informative read as both members presented their point of view in greater detail than we usually see on this topic.

This 👆
 
Cheeky Monkey

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What doesn't cause cancer today? Practically everything seems to be a cancer risk.
 
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