Carbs and keto

CJ_Xfit89

CJ_Xfit89

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Wondering how many grams of carbs to enter ketosis and also, do green leafy veggies count in the carb counting?
 
kanakafarian said:
Everyone differs but you'll most likely need to be below 30g.
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but counting salad items and veggies etc?
i need to have oatmeal (1serve=1/2 cup=22.4g) in the morning for a kick start after my fasted cardio and this is my only starchy carb during the day...thoughts?
 
runner_79 said:
but counting salad items and veggies etc?
i need to have oatmeal (1serve=1/2 cup=22.4g) in the morning for a kick start after my fasted cardio and this is my only starchy carb during the day...thoughts?
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The carb threshold for ketosis varies from person to person but generally You can't have a bowl of oatmeal on a keto diet. Eat those vegetables that are less than 5% carbs and subtract fiber from the carb counts to get the total carbs.
 
BUCKNUTS said:
The carb threshold for ketosis varies from person to person but generally You can't have a bowl of oatmeal on a keto diet. Eat those vegetables that are less than 5% carbs and subtract fiber from the carb counts to get the total carbs.
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Damn...that sucks...there goes my favourite meal of the day lol. Thanks for the help man
 
As has been pointed out, it's a very individualistic thing. I, personally, did not consume any calories from direct carbohydrate sources on my regular days. Depending on the type of diet you're running, you can keep yourself only going 2-3 days without a refeed, so it should be pretty easy to get used to not having that morning bowl of oatmeal.

If you're really in need, you could always go with a nice stimulant based thermogenic to replace it. You'd be without those carbs (helping ketosis) and you'd be helping with fat-burning - sounds like a winning situation to me.

As for vegetables, I stuck to the green ones (excluding peas) and didn't bother with "carb-counting" so-to-speak, though I did have my total calories and macros added up. If you stick to broccoli, spinach, celery, lettuce, and green beans to a slightly lesser extent, you'll be good. Just don't rely on corn, peas, or carrots in terms of them being regular staples on this diet.
 
MidwestBeast said:
As has been pointed out, it's a very individualistic thing. I, personally, did not consume any calories from direct carbohydrate sources on my regular days. Depending on the type of diet you're running, you can keep yourself only going 2-3 days without a refeed, so it should be pretty easy to get used to not having that morning bowl of oatmeal.

If you're really in need, you could always go with a nice stimulant based thermogenic to replace it. You'd be without those carbs (helping ketosis) and you'd be helping with fat-burning - sounds like a winning situation to me.

As for vegetables, I stuck to the green ones (excluding peas) and didn't bother with "carb-counting" so-to-speak, though I did have my total calories and macros added up. If you stick to broccoli, spinach, celery, lettuce, and green beans to a slightly lesser extent, you'll be good. Just don't rely on corn, peas,
or carrots in terms of them being regular staples on this diet.
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Damn..u know your stuff...yeah I have an order from NP coming...t2 and oxy stack as well as ala for refeeds to transport the carbs as well as heat and amp...
Will keep results posted... This is my first time so kinda new at it. How did you go with lifting and energy levels? When you were doing it were you lifting for huperteophy or strength or power? I just need to lose some last bit of lower stomach flab and gain a bit of strength up top from losing so much weight before hand.
Thank you very much...all is appreciated from everyone :)
 
Below 30, like was mentioned above. Personally I've never been a fan of subtracting fiber from your carb total. I don't usually count it TOWARDS it, but I certainly don't subtract it.
 
runner_79 said:
Damn..u know your stuff...yeah I have an order from NP coming...t2 and oxy stack as well as ala for refeeds to transport the carbs as well as heat and amp...
Will keep results posted... This is my first time so kinda new at it. How did you go with lifting and energy levels? When you were doing it were you lifting for huperteophy or strength or power? I just need to lose some last bit of lower stomach flab and gain a bit of strength up top from losing so much weight before hand.
Thank you very much...all is appreciated from everyone :)
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I've ran a keto diet a few times with pretty good success (which says a lot since I've been fighting a low thyroid the entire time, lol). I've ran the keto diet itself 2 different ways:

1. With a large last meal of the day refeed of ~150g carbs every 3rd day.

2. With a refeed that spans 4 meals of a day every 3rd day.

I prefer the 2nd method, myself. I actually set it up as 2 days during the week rather than every 3rd (so it stays in line with my lifting days). I worked on a 5-day split, so I made sure the refeed came on a lifting day, with another lifting day following it - not on an off day or cardio-only day.

You work up the total number of carbs that you want for your refeed (for me, I was using 160g) and split it across the 4 meals.

- 5 hours prior to lifting: 40g carbs (complex mostly, some simple if you want) and protein (whole food)
- 2 hours prior to lifting: 40g carbs (simple)
- Immediately post-workout: 40g carbs (simple) + whey isolate (or whatever you choose after your workouts)
- ~1.5 hours later: 40g carbs (complex mostly, same as first meal) + any protein, though you don't need as much here

You can obviously choose more or less, but this worked great for me (again, remember my metabolism was garbage, so that's a factor). I also worked out in the late afternoon, so the final meal listed here was my last meal of the day - a few hours before bed.



As far as training goes, I've done a few different methods, but my preference now is using varying weeks.

Week A: high intensity, low rest
- e.g. Sets/reps of 4x12, 3-5 different lifts depending on the size of the muscle group. 60 seconds rest between sets, 120 seconds rest between changing lifts.

Week B: low intensity, low reps/sets - strength
- e.g. Max-OT training (3-4 lifts per muscle group / 2-3 sets of 4-6 reps each)


I like that very much and just switch from week to week. The high intensity turns the entire session into a cardio session for you, so when you finish your last set - call it a day. During the strength weeks, I like to add ~15 minutes of HIIT as soon as I finish up.
 
MakaveliThaDon said:
Below 30, like was mentioned above. Personally I've never been a fan of subtracting fiber from your carb total. I don't usually count it TOWARDS it, but I certainly don't subtract it.
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fiber is included in carb counts you have to either count it towards totals or subtract it. Your body will not utilize it so most agree it can be subtracted. I can eat 50 grams of carbs and maintain ketosis depending on my activity level.
 
MidwestBeast said:
I've ran a keto diet a few times with pretty good success (which says a lot since I've been fighting a low thyroid the entire time, lol). I've ran the keto diet itself 2 different ways:

1. With a large last meal of the day refeed of ~150g carbs every 3rd day.

2. With a refeed that spans 4 meals of a day every 3rd day.

I prefer the 2nd method, myself. I actually set it up as 2 days during the week rather than every 3rd (so it stays in line with my lifting days). I worked on a 5-day split, so I made sure the refeed came on a lifting day, with another lifting day following it - not on an off day or cardio-only day.

You work up the total number of carbs that you want for your refeed (for me, I was using 160g) and split it across the 4 meals.

- 5 hours prior to lifting: 40g carbs (complex mostly, some simple if you want) and protein (whole food)
- 2 hours prior to lifting: 40g carbs (simple)
- Immediately post-workout: 40g carbs (simple) + whey isolate (or whatever you choose after your workouts)
- ~1.5 hours later: 40g carbs (complex mostly, same as first meal) + any protein, though you don't need as much here

You can obviously choose more or less, but this worked great for me (again, remember my metabolism was garbage, so that's a factor). I also worked out in the late afternoon, so the final meal listed here was my last meal of the day - a few hours before bed.



As far as training goes, I've done a few different methods, but my preference now is using varying weeks.

Week A: high intensity, low rest
- e.g. Sets/reps of 4x12, 3-5 different lifts depending on the size of the muscle group. 60 seconds rest between sets, 120 seconds rest between changing lifts.

Week B: low intensity, low reps/sets - strength
- e.g. Max-OT training (3-4 lifts per muscle group / 2-3 sets of 4-6 reps each)


I like that very much and just switch from week to week. The high intensity turns the entire session into a cardio session for you, so when you finish your last set - call it a day. During the strength weeks, I like to add ~15 minutes of HIIT as soon as I finish up.
Click to expand...


I play cricket at the moment but that ends soon and then it starts with soccer(football) and i run the 10km.
Just trying to weigh up how i can keep up my energy since ill be burning mostly carb stores etc because of the high intensity running etc...
Trying to "metabolically shift" to burn fat stores and bodyfat so i conserve what carbs i have as BRAIN POWER...

Thanks man
 
BUCKNUTS said:
If ketosis is your goal this is really the way to go
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The only carb source i have is directly after running in the morning. It is a moderate to high intensity run that goes for around 40mins and up. keeping it to about 12.5 - 16kms an hour depending on my regime that has been allocated for that day.

I will post my diet and if someone could analyse what they best see it as that would be great:

5:00am 1x serving dyna-burn (dymatize-using this till my NP stack/s arrive)
5:45am-Cardio (minimum 65% of MR but i usually hang around the 80% mark being 165bpm which is roughly 13.5km/h) which lasts minimum 40min
6:50am- Breakfast: 40g rolled oats(water) with 25g Blueberries + 1.5 scoops dymatize iso-100 vanilla WPI and 6 egg whites cooked microwave + 1 serve flaxseed oil

10am: Natural Almond butter brownie (15g almond butter+ 1 scoop WPI + 1 egg white mashed and nuked in microwave) and 25g biltong (beef jerky) + 1tin (75g drained) olive oil tuna

1 - 1:30pm: Grilled chicken, 3 cups garden salad, 30g almond in the salad as well as 150g steamed brocolli

4:30pm: protein brownie(morning tea style)

7:30pm: turkey breast and same salad and almonds at lunch but with a home made preservative free serve of tomato/chilli pasta sauce with no additives other than herbs and spices

Treat every 3rd night is a few extra slices of jerky.



If anyone can suggest something better im more than happy to discuss. I have cardio training for cricket/soccer every morning and strength and plyometric/functional work with core stability on a tuesday and thursday afternoon.

Looking to increase a little size up top. I have big legs from lots of sprint work and earlier gym days and all the soccer and squatting from cricket, but am weak up top.

Ideas? creatine? winni-v? insulin mimicker?
 
[quote=TheDarkHalf;2777036


I still don't see how I can gain strength in upper body by not having a carb feed after cardio? Won't that deplete you and make you look and feel weak? That's why I asked if there is a suitable creatine brand or
Ph or something that can assist with strength gains
 
runner_79 said:
TheDarkHalf;2777036 I still don't see how I can gain strength in upper body by not having a carb feed after cardio? Won't that deplete you and make you look and feel weak? That's why I asked if there is a suitable creatine brand or Ph or something that can assist with strength gains[/quote said:
Just continue to lift as heavy as you can. It sounds like you don't know what you want to do as far as goals are concerned. You talking about wanting to gain strength and wanting to lose fat. You can do one or the other. And it's much easier if you just pick one.

I personally don't care if I lose strength while dieting - i expect it to happen as I push myself further into a caloric deficit via exercise and diet

It's possible to do both (gain strength and lose fat), but tough. You have to be an experienced lifter and know how to structure a program for yourself so that you can continue to progress in strength as you continue to diet and eat less food and do more cardio. Technique will play even a larger role as you continue to increase activity and eat less.

You can do a PH while on keto (i never have - but since you're cutting you'd be best served by using Fura, Epi, Hdrol, or Xtren IMO). This will definitely aid you in the fat loss and strength dept. As far as creatine goes just use creatine mono.
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TheDarkHalf said:
runner_79 said:
Just continue to lift as heavy as you can. It sounds like you don't know what you want to do as far as goals are concerned. You talking about wanting to gain strength and wanting to lose fat. You can do one or the other. And it's much easier if you just pick one.

I personally don't care if I lose strength while dieting - i expect it to happen as I push myself further into a caloric deficit via exercise and diet

It's possible to do both (gain strength and lose fat), but tough. You have to be an experienced lifter and know how to structure a program for yourself so that you can continue to progress in strength as you continue to diet and eat less food and do more cardio. Technique will play even a larger role as you continue to increase activity and eat less.

You can do a PH while on keto (i never have - but since you're cutting you'd be best served by using Fura, Epi, Hdrol, or Xtren IMO). This will definitely aid you in the fat loss and strength dept. As far as creatine goes just use creatine mono.
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Well put. Take this advice.
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TheDarkHalf said:
runner_79 said:
Just continue to lift as heavy as you can. It sounds like you don't know what you want to do as far as goals are concerned. You talking about wanting to gain strength and wanting to lose fat. You can do one or the other. And it's much easier if you just pick one.

I personally don't care if I lose strength while dieting - i expect it to happen as I push myself further into a caloric deficit via exercise and diet

It's possible to do both (gain strength and lose fat), but tough. You have to be an experienced lifter and know how to structure a program for yourself so that you can continue to progress in strength as you continue to diet and eat less food and do more cardio. Technique will play even a larger role as you continue to increase activity and eat less.

You can do a PH while on keto (i never have - but since you're cutting you'd be best served by using Fura, Epi, Hdrol, or Xtren IMO). This will definitely aid you in the fat loss and strength dept. As far as creatine goes just use creatine mono.
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Hit the nail on the head. Thank you for your patience and your advice...wish there were more "patient and understanding people" like you and some others on this awesome forum sight.
Thank you very much :)
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BUCKNUTS said:
fiber is included in carb counts you have to either count it towards totals or subtract it. Your body will not utilize it so most agree it can be subtracted. I can eat 50 grams of carbs and maintain ketosis depending on my activity level.
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So then you even subtract the cals from it as well? For instance if I take in 30g of fiber a day, which isn't a hard number to hit, that's an average day. That's minus 120 cals off my total? I'm not sure I'm buying that...

Again, not saying your wrong, just my opinion
 
MakaveliThaDon said:
So then you even subtract the cals from it as well? For instance if I take in 30g of fiber a day, which isn't a hard number to hit, that's an average day. That's minus 120 cals off my total? I'm not sure I'm buying that...

Again, not saying your wrong, just my opinion
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Even the ADA takes this approach Since fiber is not completely digested and absorbed they recommend that diabetics subtract the fiber from carb and calorie counts. I do know many people do not subtract them though and obviously that would be to your good if trying to lose weight, however many people do not count ANY of the carbs from very fibrous veggies like salad greens and it has no negative impact on their weight loss.
 
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